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U-20 US National team disappoints in the finals

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Post by Real Barcelona 4/21/2014, 9:43 am

I had the opportunity to watch the game between River Plate and th US under 20 national team and I was truly disappointed and frustrated to watch the performance of the US national team. I just cannot understand how a club team can dominate the US national team and create many more opportunities. The players from RP had better awareness, touch, positioning etc. They just seemed to be at a different level. I only saw some spark from the US team at the begining of the second half. Back to the drawing board AGAIN!

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Post by Laimport 4/21/2014, 1:15 pm

Real Barcelona wrote:I had the opportunity to watch the game between River Plate and th US under 20 national team and I was truly disappointed and frustrated to watch the performance of the US national team. I just cannot understand how a club team can dominate the US national team and create many more opportunities. The players from RP had better awareness, touch, positioning etc. They just seemed to be at a different level. I only saw some spark from the US team at the begining of the second half. Back to the drawing board AGAIN!

I feel your pain.

Guess there's two ways of looking at this.

First, unlike the U17 national team, the u20's are more of an all star team that doesn't train and play together day in and day out. That said, one would think that the presumed "best" 18/19 year old players in our country should and would be able to compete with even the most elite foreign club teams.

Or...

Maybe, just maybe...the truly 'best' players aren't being selected to the youth national teams. Only the best "athletes", or the most promoted/visible players?

Big difference in talent identification and player "selection".

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Post by Laimport 4/21/2014, 1:21 pm

Also, the Notre Dame men play the Mexican U20 national team every spring. Notre Dame seems to win more of these games than they lose.

You would think a team of 'pros' would consistently outplay and defeat a lowly college team..


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Post by Real Barcelona 4/21/2014, 1:33 pm

Never underestimate the power of the team. I get it BUT this is a national team vs a club team....

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Post by What 4/21/2014, 2:00 pm

RP just played at a different level, u20 played the best way they know how. The issue I see is that our bb's are not taught to play the game in a creative environment and are not taught to play the right way, technically and tactically we are mediocre at best. We are too busy drinking chunky lemon lime kool aid concerned about winning at all cost at a young age. All NTX/US coaches need to watched that game and comeup with a solution(s), your right a club team should not beat a national team the way u20 were beat last night.
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Post by Sprint 4/21/2014, 2:06 pm

I watched the first game of RP v. US 20 National team ( the one the US National Team U20 won) last week and it looked about even. I did hear from others that last night the RP team was better all the way around.

Chalk it up to the US having a bad game?

I saw Acosta playing for FCD on Saturday night in Frisco, so if he was on the field last night for the US, he had to be tired. He played well the first game against RP.

The #10 for RP was great the first game and US did not have much of an answer for him when he was on the ball.




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Post by PremierLeagueFan 4/21/2014, 2:19 pm

I think Laimport makes a good point that our mentality is towards the physical aspect of the game which lends itself to the to the identification of BFS players. Size and strength should come primarily from football training so the player is developing muscle groups suited towards the task of football.

In all fairness the MLS clubs had a shot at the Final and were unable to seal the deal against the MNT because they play a similar game physically and the MNT just did it better. It's not like the end of the world considering how well the MNT showed and interestingly enough they split games with River Plate. I think River Plate learned in their loss to the MNT in the first game and exploited that knowledge for a win in the final game (smart team).

What we need is a commitment to risk losing for years to develop a more natural technical style that encourages soccer ability over all else and allows us to adjust and evolve our game in real time without some predetermined strategy or a notion that players are only determined by the BFS yardstick.
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Post by Sprint 4/21/2014, 2:27 pm

PremierLeagueFan wrote:I think Laimport makes a good point that our mentality is towards the physical aspect of the game which lends itself to the to the identification of BFS players. Size and strength should come primarily from football training so the player is developing muscle groups suited towards the task of football.

In all fairness the MLS clubs had a shot at the Final and were unable to seal the deal against the MNT because they play a similar game physically and the MNT just did it better. It's not like the end of the world considering how well the MNT showed and interestingly enough they split games with River Plate. I think River Plate learned in their loss to the MNT in the first game and exploited that knowledge for a win in the final game (smart team).

What we need is a commitment to risk losing for years to develop a more natural technical style that encourages soccer ability over all else and allows us to adjust and evolve our game in real time without some predetermined strategy or a notion that players are only determined by the BFS yardstick.


Funny you should bring up the BFS issue as I came away from this tournament thinking that unless your kid is a physical specimen or quick as lightning, he won't be among the best youth players. The Dallas Cup is arguably the best youth tourney in the country and I watched games over all the divsions last week, and was surprised the actual size and physical dominance of the players.

I saw right back and center back on a U13 team that was over 6 feet tall ( he was 12 or 13 yr old), saw a keeper on a U13 team that was 6'1 or so and could get his wrist and maybe elbow above the cross bar. Fulham in the supergroup had a right back that was at least 6'1 205 or so and was incredibly fast. The center forward on the Swedish team in the Supergroup was over 6'7. ( Peter Crouch?)

I was hoping to see some smaller more technical players excel, but each game I walked up to I was blown away by the size and speed of the players. My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup.

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Post by PremierLeagueFan 4/21/2014, 2:50 pm

I think size is helpful at GK and Central Defender and that is where it ends because size is great for making a wall on a set play or slowing a fast forward in tight space but I don't see the midfield or forward Advantage where IQ and skill is everything and size won't be enough to carry you when you challenge the big defender and GK.

That being said doesn't mean that Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo are limited because they are BFS. They also have all the other skills and features to boot.

They are in more rarefied air and don't begin to represent the overall BFS player pool, but when and if they do, Football will evolve to meet that challenge.
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Post by Real Barcelona 4/21/2014, 3:17 pm

"My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup". And mine is that you better develop soccer IQ in addition to having athleticism if you want to compete succesfully at a high level. The current system and coaches have largely been incapable of doing it. The raw material is there but the coaches and parents are always after the bling at a very young age and it is couterproductive to the ultimate goal of developing sound players.

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Post by NotADRAMAfan 4/21/2014, 4:09 pm

Sprint wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:I think Laimport makes a good point that our mentality is towards the physical aspect of the game which lends itself to the to the identification of BFS players. Size and strength should come primarily from football training so the player is developing muscle groups suited towards the task of football.

In all fairness the MLS clubs had a shot at the Final and were unable to seal the deal against the MNT because they play a similar game physically and the MNT just did it better. It's not like the end of the world considering how well the MNT showed and interestingly enough they split games with River Plate. I think River Plate learned in their loss to the MNT in the first game and exploited that knowledge for a win in the final game (smart team).

What we need is a commitment to risk losing for years to develop a more natural technical style that encourages soccer ability over all else and allows us to adjust and evolve our game in real time without some predetermined strategy or a notion that players are only determined by the BFS yardstick.


Funny you should bring up the BFS issue as I came away from this tournament thinking that unless your kid is a physical specimen or quick as lightning, he won't be among the best youth players.  The Dallas Cup is arguably the best  youth tourney in the country and I watched games over all the divsions last week, and was surprised the actual size and physical dominance of the players.  

I saw right back and center back on a U13 team that was over 6 feet tall ( he was 12 or 13 yr old), saw a keeper on a U13 team that was 6'1 or so and could get his wrist and maybe elbow above the cross bar.  Fulham in the supergroup had a right back that was at least 6'1 205 or so and was incredibly fast.  The center forward on the Swedish team in the Supergroup was over 6'7. ( Peter Crouch?)

I was hoping to see some smaller more technical players excel, but each game I walked up to I was blown away by the size and speed of the players.  My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup.
Who ? Which team had a 6'1 U13 goal keeper.  Not Chivas, Not wizards,
not lightining, not TSC Careno, Not Chicago, Not Tampa, Not Utah.
Maybe Angeles ...not sure ..cause he did look tall but not 6' 1.


Last edited by NotADRAMAfan on 4/21/2014, 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by NotADRAMAfan 4/21/2014, 4:21 pm

Real Barcelona wrote:"My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup". And mine is that you better develop soccer IQ in addition to having athleticism if you want to compete succesfully at a high level. The current system and coaches have largely been incapable of doing it. The raw material is there but the coaches and parents are always after the bling at a very young age and it is couterproductive to the ultimate goal of developing sound players.

My take
The two Brasil teams Fulminese and Coritiba , no real defense, excellent midfield, total buffoons on finishing in the final 3rd (by the way I was supporting Fulminese and Coritiba).
Went away freaking disappointed, and now officially scared for Brasil in the World cup (yeah I am paranoid) no finishing.

River Plate :- Solid Argentinian team, play well with each other, worked together to get the job done.

US 20 National Mens team :- One guy think number 24 Zach Pfeffer with the vision to make a beautiful pass for a goal was the only kid to impress me (against Fulminese).
Other than that, the US 20 NMT stinks. (my standard is Germany, Brasil, Argentina and I will not lower my standard for North Texas forum).

I loved Dallas Cup and will go watch as much as I can next year.

Chivas USA U 13 what a team.

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Post by Number13 4/21/2014, 4:42 pm

Speed is overrated - Marc Bartra
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Post by Sprint 4/21/2014, 4:57 pm

NotADRAMAfan wrote:
Sprint wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:I think Laimport makes a good point that our mentality is towards the physical aspect of the game which lends itself to the to the identification of BFS players. Size and strength should come primarily from football training so the player is developing muscle groups suited towards the task of football.

In all fairness the MLS clubs had a shot at the Final and were unable to seal the deal against the MNT because they play a similar game physically and the MNT just did it better. It's not like the end of the world considering how well the MNT showed and interestingly enough they split games with River Plate. I think River Plate learned in their loss to the MNT in the first game and exploited that knowledge for a win in the final game (smart team).

What we need is a commitment to risk losing for years to develop a more natural technical style that encourages soccer ability over all else and allows us to adjust and evolve our game in real time without some predetermined strategy or a notion that players are only determined by the BFS yardstick.


Funny you should bring up the BFS issue as I came away from this tournament thinking that unless your kid is a physical specimen or quick as lightning, he won't be among the best youth players.  The Dallas Cup is arguably the best  youth tourney in the country and I watched games over all the divsions last week, and was surprised the actual size and physical dominance of the players.  

I saw right back and center back on a U13 team that was over 6 feet tall ( he was 12 or 13 yr old), saw a keeper on a U13 team that was 6'1 or so and could get his wrist and maybe elbow above the cross bar.  Fulham in the supergroup had a right back that was at least 6'1 205 or so and was incredibly fast.  The center forward on the Swedish team in the Supergroup was over 6'7. ( Peter Crouch?)

I was hoping to see some smaller more technical players excel, but each game I walked up to I was blown away by the size and speed of the players.  My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup.
Who ? Which team had a 6'1 U13 goal keeper.  Not Chivas, Not wizards,
not lightining, not TSC Careno, Not Chicago, Not Tampa, Not Utah.
Maybe Angeles ...not sure ..cause he did look tall but not 6' 1.

I watched the Chivas v. Chicago game and the Chivas goalkeeper was huge. On a corner from the Chicago team, the kid curled it right in under the crossbar and the Chivas goalie jumped up and easily poked it over the crossbar, with his hands and most of his forearm easily above the crossbar. Never seen a keeper that age do it that easily. The Chicago right back was 6 feet as he was my height when he walked passed the sideline.





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Post by NotADRAMAfan 4/21/2014, 5:16 pm

Sprint wrote:
NotADRAMAfan wrote:
Sprint wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:I think Laimport makes a good point that our mentality is towards the physical aspect of the game which lends itself to the to the identification of BFS players. Size and strength should come primarily from football training so the player is developing muscle groups suited towards the task of football.

In all fairness the MLS clubs had a shot at the Final and were unable to seal the deal against the MNT because they play a similar game physically and the MNT just did it better. It's not like the end of the world considering how well the MNT showed and interestingly enough they split games with River Plate. I think River Plate learned in their loss to the MNT in the first game and exploited that knowledge for a win in the final game (smart team).

What we need is a commitment to risk losing for years to develop a more natural technical style that encourages soccer ability over all else and allows us to adjust and evolve our game in real time without some predetermined strategy or a notion that players are only determined by the BFS yardstick.


Funny you should bring up the BFS issue as I came away from this tournament thinking that unless your kid is a physical specimen or quick as lightning, he won't be among the best youth players.  The Dallas Cup is arguably the best  youth tourney in the country and I watched games over all the divsions last week, and was surprised the actual size and physical dominance of the players.  

I saw right back and center back on a U13 team that was over 6 feet tall ( he was 12 or 13 yr old), saw a keeper on a U13 team that was 6'1 or so and could get his wrist and maybe elbow above the cross bar.  Fulham in the supergroup had a right back that was at least 6'1 205 or so and was incredibly fast.  The center forward on the Swedish team in the Supergroup was over 6'7. ( Peter Crouch?)

I was hoping to see some smaller more technical players excel, but each game I walked up to I was blown away by the size and speed of the players.  My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup.
Who ? Which team had a 6'1 U13 goal keeper.  Not Chivas, Not wizards,
not lightining, not TSC Careno, Not Chicago, Not Tampa, Not Utah.
Maybe Angeles ...not sure ..cause he did look tall but not 6' 1.

I watched the Chivas v. Chicago game and the Chivas goalkeeper was huge.  On a corner from the Chicago team, the kid curled it right in under the crossbar and the Chivas goalie jumped up and easily poked it over the crossbar, with his hands and most of his forearm easily above the crossbar.  Never seen a keeper that age do it that easily.  The Chicago right back was 6 feet as he was my height when he walked passed the sideline.  





Lol you sure your 6 feet (joke).  We shrink with age.

However you are right , the Chivas goalie was tall and yes he easily poked that ball two handed over the cross bar.


Last edited by NotADRAMAfan on 4/21/2014, 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Sprint 4/21/2014, 5:17 pm

Number13 wrote:Speed is overrated - Marc Bartra

The word overrated is probably getting used a lot this year around Barcelona.


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Post by Sprint 4/21/2014, 5:19 pm

NotADRAMAfan wrote:
Sprint wrote:
NotADRAMAfan wrote:
Sprint wrote:
PremierLeagueFan wrote:I think Laimport makes a good point that our mentality is towards the physical aspect of the game which lends itself to the to the identification of BFS players. Size and strength should come primarily from football training so the player is developing muscle groups suited towards the task of football.

In all fairness the MLS clubs had a shot at the Final and were unable to seal the deal against the MNT because they play a similar game physically and the MNT just did it better. It's not like the end of the world considering how well the MNT showed and interestingly enough they split games with River Plate. I think River Plate learned in their loss to the MNT in the first game and exploited that knowledge for a win in the final game (smart team).

What we need is a commitment to risk losing for years to develop a more natural technical style that encourages soccer ability over all else and allows us to adjust and evolve our game in real time without some predetermined strategy or a notion that players are only determined by the BFS yardstick.


Funny you should bring up the BFS issue as I came away from this tournament thinking that unless your kid is a physical specimen or quick as lightning, he won't be among the best youth players.  The Dallas Cup is arguably the best  youth tourney in the country and I watched games over all the divsions last week, and was surprised the actual size and physical dominance of the players.  

I saw right back and center back on a U13 team that was over 6 feet tall ( he was 12 or 13 yr old), saw a keeper on a U13 team that was 6'1 or so and could get his wrist and maybe elbow above the cross bar.  Fulham in the supergroup had a right back that was at least 6'1 205 or so and was incredibly fast.  The center forward on the Swedish team in the Supergroup was over 6'7. ( Peter Crouch?)

I was hoping to see some smaller more technical players excel, but each game I walked up to I was blown away by the size and speed of the players.  My take away was you better get your kids lifting weights and working on sprinting pace of he wants to be in the Dallas Cup.
Who ? Which team had a 6'1 U13 goal keeper.  Not Chivas, Not wizards,
not lightining, not TSC Careno, Not Chicago, Not Tampa, Not Utah.
Maybe Angeles ...not sure ..cause he did look tall but not 6' 1.

I watched the Chivas v. Chicago game and the Chivas goalkeeper was huge.  On a corner from the Chicago team, the kid curled it right in under the crossbar and the Chivas goalie jumped up and easily poked it over the crossbar, with his hands and most of his forearm easily above the crossbar.  Never seen a keeper that age do it that easily.  The Chicago right back was 6 feet as he was my height when he walked passed the sideline.  





Lol you sure your 6 feet (joke).  We shrink with age.

No doubt very possible and it was after happy hour,  drunken but it was impressive.  Was a great game and both teams played very well.

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Post by NotADRAMAfan 4/22/2014, 12:47 pm

Sprint wrote:
Number13 wrote:Speed is overrated - Marc Bartra

The word overrated is probably getting used a lot this year around Barcelona.  


okay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QMTnnBUnqM

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