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Umm odp, i am confused....
+15
British steel
Kaivermor
Soccerinsanity
go99
Marmaduke
wbanul
peregrino
Se_la_perdio!
omega striker
Laimport
Madcap
krowdkontrol
my2cents
PG-Boy
Seinfeld4
19 posters
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Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
go99 wrote:I think not being happy with ODP can come from an unrealistic expectation of ODP. It is cheap extra touches and an opportunity to play with different kids. BB has fun at ODP and when he has some friends that go to the games he has had a great time at those. Decided not to attend NC because his friends were not going. We will see on the turnout for S. Texas. But ODP does not mean you are a good player and it does not necessarily provide any opportunities. As of late even the Texas players being invited to the national team pool have not been ODP players they have been from Pre A and academy.
Great point. ODP is not a direct path to the national teams that it once was. Although regional trials does present an opportunity for direct contact with college coaches.
Laimport- TxSoccer Addict
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Join date : 2011-09-07
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
regional trials are also a big expense
go99- TxSoccer Wise Man
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Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : The Ahole TXsoccer deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So they will hate me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not their hero. I'm a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
this is the other problemgo99 wrote:regional trials are also a big expense
omega striker- TxSoccer Wise Man
- Posts : 4007
Join date : 2009-07-02
Location : the eastside
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
omega striker wrote:this is the other problemgo99 wrote:regional trials are also a big expense
So true. And let's be honest, until the cost comes down drastically, no single venue will ever have a monopoly on getting the best players.
Only the best players that can afford it.
This is carried over into the college game. Where grades and financial ability often heavily influence the recruiting process.
Laimport- TxSoccer Addict
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Join date : 2011-09-07
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
Um, I think grades ARE supposed to influence college recruiting!
Agree with the financial part though...
Agree with the financial part though...
Soccerinsanity- TxSoccer Addict
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Join date : 2010-07-02
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
My ‘01 ODP Rambling Perspective
ELITE PLAYERS; the best-of-the-best NTX soccer studs, already on the fast track for Pre-Academy with one of the Big 4 clubs.
ON-THE-BUBBLE PLAYERS; members of a premier team on a Big 4 club, but not yet selected for PA. Excellent players that are right on the cusp. They may or may not ever be selected for PA.
PLAYMAKERS; boys skilled enough to be an Elite or On-the-Bubble player with a Big 4 club but are members of a secondary or tertiary level club. Perhaps even a player from a recreational league. They have skill, the only difference is they are not on a Big 4 club.
CONTRIBUTORS; solidly skilled players on a non-Big 4 team. Not yet ready for Pre-Academy or a top Big 4 club team.
REMAINING: All other kids not on a list already mentioned above.
WILD-A*$ GENERALIZATIONS ON MY PART
ELITE PLAYERS: ODP isn’t even on the radar for virtually all these players. I’m guessing a lot of the anti-ODP flack originates from the kids, parents and coaches of these players. ODP rarely catches a glimpse of these boys.
ON-THE-BUBBLE: The parents of these kids are torn between the PA and ODP. But its clear the club is primary in all instances of scheduling conflict. Parents are trying to balance both club and ODP without losing a chance for their bb to make PA. Their impression of ODP is mixed. These are the players ODP struggles to keep because of all the schedule conflicts, non-challenging practices and/or the quality of the selection process
PLAYMAKERS: Advocates of the ODP process.
CONTRIBUTORS: Advocates of the ODP process.
REMAINING: Advocates of the ODP process.
Once the process takes its course, I’m guessing ODP continues with almost none of the Elite players, a few of the Bubble players, some Playmakers and a whole bunch of Contributors. Hence, NTX ODP gets spanked at tournaments. Other regions without FOUR Academy clubs don’t have to deal with this situation.
In a nutshell; NTX ODP is challenged to succeed at a very high level because they don’t have the elite local players and very few of the bubble players. However, it is still a very good venue for the balance of NTX players to practice with different coaches and players. Plus the added benefit of playing kids in other regions. NTX ODP has to make a conscious decision whether they will make an effort to retain the bubble players. How? Improve scheduling of events to avoid conflicts with Classic League and major tournaments. Improve the quality of the training sessions. Particularly for the top two group of players. Easy-going practices with U7 drills should be replaced with rigorous and advance drills. The elite and bubble boys are accustomed to frisky practices with a lot of movement. Standing in long lines for drills like U7 boys bores them. The boys should be soaked in sweat at the conclusion of practices. Give them high expectations and coach them like professionals.
For ODP to get a good status check, they should scrimmage the Big 4 PA teams at least once a season. The PA teams will win. But at least ODP has a chance to play as a team against excellent opponents and try different line-ups BEFORE they go to interregional or regional tournaments.
ELITE PLAYERS; the best-of-the-best NTX soccer studs, already on the fast track for Pre-Academy with one of the Big 4 clubs.
ON-THE-BUBBLE PLAYERS; members of a premier team on a Big 4 club, but not yet selected for PA. Excellent players that are right on the cusp. They may or may not ever be selected for PA.
PLAYMAKERS; boys skilled enough to be an Elite or On-the-Bubble player with a Big 4 club but are members of a secondary or tertiary level club. Perhaps even a player from a recreational league. They have skill, the only difference is they are not on a Big 4 club.
CONTRIBUTORS; solidly skilled players on a non-Big 4 team. Not yet ready for Pre-Academy or a top Big 4 club team.
REMAINING: All other kids not on a list already mentioned above.
WILD-A*$ GENERALIZATIONS ON MY PART
ELITE PLAYERS: ODP isn’t even on the radar for virtually all these players. I’m guessing a lot of the anti-ODP flack originates from the kids, parents and coaches of these players. ODP rarely catches a glimpse of these boys.
ON-THE-BUBBLE: The parents of these kids are torn between the PA and ODP. But its clear the club is primary in all instances of scheduling conflict. Parents are trying to balance both club and ODP without losing a chance for their bb to make PA. Their impression of ODP is mixed. These are the players ODP struggles to keep because of all the schedule conflicts, non-challenging practices and/or the quality of the selection process
PLAYMAKERS: Advocates of the ODP process.
CONTRIBUTORS: Advocates of the ODP process.
REMAINING: Advocates of the ODP process.
Once the process takes its course, I’m guessing ODP continues with almost none of the Elite players, a few of the Bubble players, some Playmakers and a whole bunch of Contributors. Hence, NTX ODP gets spanked at tournaments. Other regions without FOUR Academy clubs don’t have to deal with this situation.
In a nutshell; NTX ODP is challenged to succeed at a very high level because they don’t have the elite local players and very few of the bubble players. However, it is still a very good venue for the balance of NTX players to practice with different coaches and players. Plus the added benefit of playing kids in other regions. NTX ODP has to make a conscious decision whether they will make an effort to retain the bubble players. How? Improve scheduling of events to avoid conflicts with Classic League and major tournaments. Improve the quality of the training sessions. Particularly for the top two group of players. Easy-going practices with U7 drills should be replaced with rigorous and advance drills. The elite and bubble boys are accustomed to frisky practices with a lot of movement. Standing in long lines for drills like U7 boys bores them. The boys should be soaked in sweat at the conclusion of practices. Give them high expectations and coach them like professionals.
For ODP to get a good status check, they should scrimmage the Big 4 PA teams at least once a season. The PA teams will win. But at least ODP has a chance to play as a team against excellent opponents and try different line-ups BEFORE they go to interregional or regional tournaments.
PG-Boy- TxSoccer Author
- Posts : 955
Join date : 2011-03-12
Location : Pleasant Grove - Dallas
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
PG-Boy wrote:My ‘01 ODP Rambling Perspective
ELITE PLAYERS; the best-of-the-best NTX soccer studs, already on the fast track for Pre-Academy with one of the Big 4 clubs.
ON-THE-BUBBLE PLAYERS; members of a premier team on a Big 4 club, but not yet selected for PA. Excellent players that are right on the cusp. They may or may not ever be selected for PA.
PLAYMAKERS; boys skilled enough to be an Elite or On-the-Bubble player with a Big 4 club but are members of a secondary or tertiary level club. Perhaps even a player from a recreational league. They have skill, the only difference is they are not on a Big 4 club.
CONTRIBUTORS; solidly skilled players on a non-Big 4 team. Not yet ready for Pre-Academy or a top Big 4 club team.
REMAINING: All other kids not on a list already mentioned above.
WILD-A*$ GENERALIZATIONS ON MY PART
ELITE PLAYERS: ODP isn’t even on the radar for virtually all these players. I’m guessing a lot of the anti-ODP flack originates from the kids, parents and coaches of these players. ODP rarely catches a glimpse of these boys.
ON-THE-BUBBLE: The parents of these kids are torn between the PA and ODP. But its clear the club is primary in all instances of scheduling conflict. Parents are trying to balance both club and ODP without losing a chance for their bb to make PA. Their impression of ODP is mixed. These are the players ODP struggles to keep because of all the schedule conflicts, non-challenging practices and/or the quality of the selection process
PLAYMAKERS: Advocates of the ODP process.
CONTRIBUTORS: Advocates of the ODP process.
REMAINING: Advocates of the ODP process.
Once the process takes its course, I’m guessing ODP continues with almost none of the Elite players, a few of the Bubble players, some Playmakers and a whole bunch of Contributors. Hence, NTX ODP gets spanked at tournaments. Other regions without FOUR Academy clubs don’t have to deal with this situation.
In a nutshell; NTX ODP is challenged to succeed at a very high level because they don’t have the elite local players and very few of the bubble players. However, it is still a very good venue for the balance of NTX players to practice with different coaches and players. Plus the added benefit of playing kids in other regions. NTX ODP has to make a conscious decision whether they will make an effort to retain the bubble players. How? Improve scheduling of events to avoid conflicts with Classic League and major tournaments. Improve the quality of the training sessions. Particularly for the top two group of players. Easy-going practices with U7 drills should be replaced with rigorous and advance drills. The elite and bubble boys are accustomed to frisky practices with a lot of movement. Standing in long lines for drills like U7 boys bores them. The boys should be soaked in sweat at the conclusion of practices. Give them high expectations and coach them like professionals.
For ODP to get a good status check, they should scrimmage the Big 4 PA teams at least once a season. The PA teams will win. But at least ODP has a chance to play as a team against excellent opponents and try different line-ups BEFORE they go to interregional or regional tournaments.
Nice post. And for the most part, makes sense. Since the advent of PA, there does seem to be a trend of fewer and fewer NTX players being selected to region 3 pools. At least in the 97 and 98 age groups.
So that would lead most to believe that perhaps PA really is attracting the 'best' players...in NTX anyway.
And that trend will continue now that DA will be expanding to U13/14.
In the vast majority of cases, we all know that the 'studs' are the kids born earlier in the year and otherwise early physical developers. Yes, there are exceptions...but damned few. Therefore, these studs are in most cases deemed better because they are better 'athletes'.
If you are lucky enough to get on the national pool radar due to those circumstances, by all means, take advantage of it. Just stay grounded with your eyes open.
Because in 4-5 years, the 'bubble' and 'playmaker' types are going to catch up and probably pass you by.
Laimport- TxSoccer Addict
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Join date : 2011-09-07
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
And they may have better grades, too!
Soccerinsanity- TxSoccer Addict
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Join date : 2010-07-02
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
wbanul wrote:my2cents wrote:ODP= 1 week trip to Mexico at the University of Gaudalahara, games against 5 clubs, day in Gaudalahara, events hosted by said clubs, one pro game= great life experience.
Cost $1000= a great value
I whole heartedly agree!!
I had several conversations with parents from one of the big 4 and from what I can tell from a "bang for your buck" it is much more economical to keep my boy in a non-big 4 team, ODP, and playing for his high school system. EXCEPT in the case of FC Dallas where the Academy team is free. But for the other 3, when you factor in playing 27 Academy games and the travel expenses for the out of town games theres no comparison. As far as quality of coaching, my son will have the benefit of a fantastic Club coach that has a proven track record of developing the player, then the ODP coaches on the local, regional, and national level if he makes those pools, then his high school coach. Finally, I like the fact that my son is forced to learn how to play with a variety of players. It strengthens his own abilities while forcing him to step up early in his communication with his teammates.
From a completely selfish standpoint I also like the diversity of parents that I get to spend time with. I broaden my network of soccer parents and thereby broaden my information base and possible opportunity base. I thoroughly enjoyed meeting the parents in NC and as I said got an awful lot of information on Pre-Academy and Academy.
I don't need the "prestige" of a big 4 lable for my son. I just need to make sure my son is developed to his potential and given several chances to show that development to recruiters.
Costa Rica in February., $1000. Will be another great trip. Sure beats the hell out of the $4000- $6000 for the international trips offered by clubs.
my2cents- TxSoccer Addict
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Join date : 2009-07-01
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
PG-Boy wrote:My ‘01 ODP Rambling Perspective
ELITE PLAYERS; the best-of-the-best NTX soccer studs, already on the fast track for Pre-Academy with one of the Big 4 clubs.
ON-THE-BUBBLE PLAYERS; members of a premier team on a Big 4 club, but not yet selected for PA. Excellent players that are right on the cusp. They may or may not ever be selected for PA.
PLAYMAKERS; boys skilled enough to be an Elite or On-the-Bubble player with a Big 4 club but are members of a secondary or tertiary level club. Perhaps even a player from a recreational league. They have skill, the only difference is they are not on a Big 4 club.
CONTRIBUTORS; solidly skilled players on a non-Big 4 team. Not yet ready for Pre-Academy or a top Big 4 club team.
REMAINING: All other kids not on a list already mentioned above.
WILD-A*$ GENERALIZATIONS ON MY PART
ELITE PLAYERS: ODP isn’t even on the radar for virtually all these players. I’m guessing a lot of the anti-ODP flack originates from the kids, parents and coaches of these players. ODP rarely catches a glimpse of these boys.
ON-THE-BUBBLE: The parents of these kids are torn between the PA and ODP. But its clear the club is primary in all instances of scheduling conflict. Parents are trying to balance both club and ODP without losing a chance for their bb to make PA. Their impression of ODP is mixed. These are the players ODP struggles to keep because of all the schedule conflicts, non-challenging practices and/or the quality of the selection process
PLAYMAKERS: Advocates of the ODP process.
CONTRIBUTORS: Advocates of the ODP process.
REMAINING: Advocates of the ODP process.
Once the process takes its course, I’m guessing ODP continues with almost none of the Elite players, a few of the Bubble players, some Playmakers and a whole bunch of Contributors. Hence, NTX ODP gets spanked at tournaments. Other regions without FOUR Academy clubs don’t have to deal with this situation.
In a nutshell; NTX ODP is challenged to succeed at a very high level because they don’t have the elite local players and very few of the bubble players. However, it is still a very good venue for the balance of NTX players to practice with different coaches and players. Plus the added benefit of playing kids in other regions. NTX ODP has to make a conscious decision whether they will make an effort to retain the bubble players. How? Improve scheduling of events to avoid conflicts with Classic League and major tournaments. Improve the quality of the training sessions. Particularly for the top two group of players. Easy-going practices with U7 drills should be replaced with rigorous and advance drills. The elite and bubble boys are accustomed to frisky practices with a lot of movement. Standing in long lines for drills like U7 boys bores them. The boys should be soaked in sweat at the conclusion of practices. Give them high expectations and coach them like professionals.
For ODP to get a good status check, they should scrimmage the Big 4 PA teams at least once a season. The PA teams will win. But at least ODP has a chance to play as a team against excellent opponents and try different line-ups BEFORE they go to interregional or regional tournaments.
I was passing the time on this MLK day checking out some areas of txsoccer that I don't normally look at. I gotta say that PG-Boy's take on ODP pretty much nails it. I will add my observations having watched the 96 age group.
ODP is a nice way to get some touches and additional development for the younger ones, but it is totally diluted by the time the boys reach high school. Once they get to that age, the stronger players are either DA, or have no more interest in ODP. You can go out to the fields and watch some CL D1 and D2 games that have ODP boys playing and see that they are no better than the boys that are not ODP. Bottom line to me is that ODP makes sense for the younger ones, but doesn't really benefit U15 and above. If you are not DA and are looking for college looks, you can get better results from playing for one of the top club teams who will showcase or draw attention as a team/club rather than ODP.
Guest- Guest
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
I agree with the assessment of the situation, but not necessarily the conclusion.
That is, the group referred to as "play makers" are not on a 4 team for a variety of reasons. Mathmatical reason #1 perhaps is that 4 teams x 25 slots = 100 slots available. For the next 20 - 40 players that are potentially as good as the 100 on the big 4 (or at least #s 26-100?), ODP provides the alternative, does it not?
I was at a HS tournament this weekend where more than one player who had been in academy for years was discussed. One was on the field playing (left academy. The discussion on another was that he might return to HS soccer. In both instances, the source of the discussion was not the player nor his parent, but a 3rd party. They said the players were not enjoying academy at all. Academy is not for every one, not even academy-level players.
My point is, it is good to have more than one conduit than the limitations that a 4 team academy system offers this area of a large population.
That is, the group referred to as "play makers" are not on a 4 team for a variety of reasons. Mathmatical reason #1 perhaps is that 4 teams x 25 slots = 100 slots available. For the next 20 - 40 players that are potentially as good as the 100 on the big 4 (or at least #s 26-100?), ODP provides the alternative, does it not?
I was at a HS tournament this weekend where more than one player who had been in academy for years was discussed. One was on the field playing (left academy. The discussion on another was that he might return to HS soccer. In both instances, the source of the discussion was not the player nor his parent, but a 3rd party. They said the players were not enjoying academy at all. Academy is not for every one, not even academy-level players.
My point is, it is good to have more than one conduit than the limitations that a 4 team academy system offers this area of a large population.
Kaivermor- TxSoccer Postmaster
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Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
What is ODP???
British steel- TxSoccer Postmaster
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Location : Dallas
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
worldcup2014 wrote:What is ODP???
OLYMPIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM
http://www.ntxsoccer.org/players/olympicdevelopmentprogram.aspx
PG-Boy- TxSoccer Author
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Location : Pleasant Grove - Dallas
Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
A word to those with sons/daughters who are goal keepers. When we ('01 boys) first started ODP at the beginning of the training season, the boys would get a good hour or more of goal keeper specific work at each training. They would separate from the field players and train with a goal keeper coach. That time decreased throughout the training year and by the end of January, the keepers were not provided with ANY keeper training at all. They had to do the field player drills throughout the majority of the training session and then were thrown in goal so the field players could scrimmage. A total waste of time for them. I was present for every second of every training that my son went to (he only missed one all season) and many times there wasn't even a goal keeper coach at the training sessions at all. It was a good way for my son to get some exercise on a few Sundays a month at a reasonable cost and improve his foot skills a bit but other than that....it didn't make him a better keeper. In hindsight, I should have just wrapped it up in January. ODP is a good option for field players in non development (pre) academy clubs and players from small clubs etc. but goal keepers need to find another type of training if they want to improve. Also, don't kid yourself, OPD is relationship biased like any other selection process so don't automatically think your kid isn't a good player if they arent chosen for the pool or other events.
Primokeeper- TxSoccer Poster
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Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
Primokeeper wrote:A word to those with sons/daughters who are goal keepers. When we ('01 boys) first started ODP at the beginning of the training season, the boys would get a good hour or more of goal keeper specific work at each training. They would separate from the field players and train with a goal keeper coach. That time decreased throughout the training year and by the end of January, the keepers were not provided with ANY keeper training at all. They had to do the field player drills throughout the majority of the training session and then were thrown in goal so the field players could scrimmage. A total waste of time for them. I was present for every second of every training that my son went to (he only missed one all season) and many times there wasn't even a goal keeper coach at the training sessions at all. It was a good way for my son to get some exercise on a few Sundays a month at a reasonable cost and improve his foot skills a bit but other than that....it didn't make him a better keeper. In hindsight, I should have just wrapped it up in January. ODP is a good option for field players in non development (pre) academy clubs and players from small clubs etc. but goal keepers need to find another type of training if they want to improve. Also, don't kid yourself, OPD is relationship biased like any other selection process so don't automatically think your kid isn't a good player if they arent chosen for the pool or other events.
Playing goalie my whole life, I know the footwork and field player skills are just as important to a goalie as goalie specific training. However, ODP should be doing goalie specific training as well. It does seem that you are losing out if they do not provide it to you.
odie1993- TxSoccer Author
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Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
You are right. I was just frustrated with two hours of foot skills and small sided field player drills, 30 minutes of scrimaging and no keeper training.
Primokeeper- TxSoccer Poster
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Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
ODP training has just really hit rough times; use to have quality players, coaching and position specific training. Now it's just a program they are trying to keep alive - have been out there a few times and to your point have not seen the goalie training they used to do in fact I think it's been a good 2-3 years that I've seen quality goalkeeper training. Best option is for you to seek it privately if not already given by your club but I would not count on ODP giving much of it given the limping program's status to date
Joker- TxSoccer Postmaster
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Re: Umm odp, i am confused....
That is very discouraging. Have you ever asked any of the staff why there wasn't any keeper training?
GoalieMom20- TxSoccer Poster
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