Should youth coaches win games or develop players?

This is the dilemma I face as my team starts Spring season. Let me know your opinion. Here are my thoughts:

http://acoachinglife.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/build-a-winning-team-or-develop-players/

Shhh We don't say that kind of stuff around here. I have incurred the wrath of kickballers all over N Texas. Don't do it to yourself. Don't ask the questions. Just kick and win and everything will be fine

If you DON'T develop your players, you won't win games for very long.

if you do develop players you may not have a team for very long

go99 wrote:if you do develop players you may not have a team for very long

This too is true.

Likewise, if you don't win you will lose players.

Reminds me of when we played FC Force. They were doing alot of things like trying to move the ball away from pressure, switching the field. combination passing etc. It was clear the coach has been trying to teach them soccer but I can also see why the lost all of their games so far. Too many touches that introduce mistakes that cost them the possesion. They were also slow in the back which cost them goals once they lose it. As the players get better the mistakes will be fewer and the game will improve. Unfortunately the coach will probably lose his best players before that ever happens. I hope you develop players so they can learn and understand a very beautiful and complex game. If you are not at a bigger club, you may have a kid that eventually ends up on one of the academy teams and that kid will remember "his" coach that taught him to play.

go99 wrote:Reminds me of when we played FC Force. They were doing alot of things like trying to move the ball away from pressure, switching the field. combination passing etc. It was clear the coach has been trying to teach them soccer but I can also see why the lost all of their games so far. Too many touches that introduce mistakes that cost them the possesion. They were also slow in the back which cost them goals once they lose it. As the players get better the mistakes will be fewer and the game will improve. Unfortunately the coach will probably lose his best players before that ever happens. I hope you develop players so they can learn and understand a very beautiful and complex game. If you are not at a bigger club, you may have a kid that eventually ends up on one of the academy teams and that kid will remember "his" coach that taught him to play.

hopefully the parents realize that the coach is actually teaching the boys the game and not teaching them to kick it long and hope the fast boys up front can outrun the other team. tough situation because everyone wants to win - they think short term instead of long term.

You guys constantly talk about kickball. Give me examples of coaches that teach kickball...Please..
Texan(Craft)- watched them play don't see kickball ...WHO?wHO? who? Give me examples twll us the teams that play u kickball in u11. Is it only the teams that lose. Not being a smartallic, just would like you to twll me/us.
FCDallas coaches/ Ryan/Suarez/Fig/----CC, Solar,COMETS, gunners, Barcelona,Chivas...Tell me who. You must be directing your kickball comments at someone. I can tell you I have watched some kickball no doubt about it, but are you saying all these teams play kickball above because that is the majority of the teams going to d1.
Tell me/us who?

If you decide to answer who plays kickball in d1 u11. Do me a favor, please don't tell me FCForce is the only team teaching soccer and not kickball. I want my kid to learn soccer so I'm asking for your help. Is it FCDallas teaching kickball, Texans,Andromena,Solar or all the smaller clubs.

From what I've seen, there are points in every game where you can make the kickball claim - especially at the younger ages. When a team that's really adept at moving the ball sends a through ball 'over' the last defender, is that kickball?
I think it's similar to claiming teams are dirty or all parents on a team are bad...the people convince themselves they are seeing what they want to see. I've seen the best teams from U17 down get sucked into kickball.
I think it comes more from players not knowing how to play rather than directed by a coach. I do have trouble when defenders only clear the ball out of the back rather than play it out of the back by stringing passes - that works but unless your defender has extraordinary aim, it's pure luck if you happen to hit a midfielder or forward.
Watch teams that move the ball - that tells you the coach is probably working with the boys and it's not all about their individual talents.

Clueless- You are exactly right. Most of the posters especially in the u11 group talk themselves into thinking all they see is kickball. Watch ..they will come back with a generic rant of ntsoccer being just kickball. No mention of coaches or teams that play or teach this barbaric stategy. The fact is most of the teams in u11 are learning real soccer, not just FCForce who happen to be 0-15.

You asked a question that you didn't want an answer to. You are correct, nobody plays kickball in N Texas it is a myth. Technically there is nothing wrong with kickball anyway, it is a technique that wins soccer games and particuarly at younger ages. I have even seen tottenham use it quite a bit this year to varying degrees of success in the premier league. The question is why do you get so angry with the label of kickball? No craft is not kickball, very mechanical and heavy handed in the coaching but definately not kickball.

I don't, I think the kids are playing good soccer. I see very little kickball...Sounds good to me.

Quite a few people in soccer would disagree with you and particuarly outside of Texas. The area is quite well known for it. I will take FCD blue as an example. The coach has struggled all year to get the boys to play soccer. They have done it for periods in the game but have been unable do it for an entire game. Lately they have been able to hang on to a posession style for longer periods and have done ok. They still have a tendancy to return to kickball when things start to not go there way or they get tired.. They played FC Force and found the slow back line and immediately went to kicking and won. The coach congratulated them on their win and admonished the play. The prior game they played the Gunners a much more athletically talented team and played a good game of possesion which kept them in the game. With about 10 mins left they give up a goal and gave up on the play. They started exchanging kicks and then proceeded to give up another 3 goals in 7 min. The coach said he was more proud of the gunners game because of the play (except the last 10 min) than the force game that they won.

That's what is called learning the game. Nothing wrong with that at the u11 level. I just constantly hear you talk about kickball and I just don't see much of it with the top ten or so teams. Seems when you watch a game and there are 5-10 plays/min that are kickball , you are claiming kickball....The Gunners are about the only team that I see that play what you would call kickball and even they are improving.

On FCD blue it is not learning the game, it is breaking old habits. Many hours in practice telling players "don't just kick it". Plenty of small sided practice drills with the emphasis on passing. The gunners are much improving but kickball actually suits the athletes they have. And yes there are plenty of teams that play kickball in the top 10. Not the greatest development tool but it wins. It's not the insult you take it as. It is a tactic that was created in England that has fallen out of favor but is still used but more extensively at the youth level. Many of the "experts" would argue that it is not a good thing. This is the reason why they want smaller sided games at young ages and smaller fields. It takes away kids ability to kick and run and forces them to play the ball closer. BTW it usually starts with the play on the back end.

Who plays kickball in the top 10?

not going there because everyone goes on an angry tirade when you say their team plays kickball. I will say coming into CL FCD blue was a kickballing team. We have spent the better part of the year trying to correct the habit but it still shows it's head from time to time.

You guys will get it because you have a good coach. It begins and ends there....it really is all about the coach in any sport. You have to have the players but if you have a top notch coach he will get the talented, athletic players there eventually.

Love our coach. I have really seen BBs game expand and improve. Just the little things he has learned about opening the field, expanding his vision, and working to create mismatches has been better than I had hoped. I am sure we will lose some players because of the loses we have taken. Parents will look past the improvement of play since the start of the season to now. Furtunately our best players seem to be on board, the others may find that their options are not as great as they think.

CLUB31 wrote:You guys constantly talk about kickball. Give me examples of coaches that teach kickball...Please..
Texan(Craft)- watched them play don't see kickball ...WHO?wHO? who? Give me examples twll us the teams that play u kickball in u11. Is it only the teams that lose. Not being a smartallic, just would like you to twll me/us.
FCDallas coaches/ Ryan/Suarez/Fig/----CC, Solar,COMETS, gunners, Barcelona,Chivas...Tell me who. You must be directing your kickball comments at someone. I can tell you I have watched some kickball no doubt about it, but are you saying all these teams play kickball above because that is the majority of the teams going to d1.
Tell me/us who?

I would say , "REALLY " watch the games . Are the goals scored by adding #'s to the attack or is it a break away? How many people are in the box when the goal is scored? How much movement of the ball takes place in the box where it is the most conjested? Do the defenders go on the attack? Is the ball just booted from the back or is field position gained from side to side switching? Does the backs and sweeper carry the ball? Are the goals scored by miss-direction, playing the ball back, and ball movement in tight spaces? Or do a majority of goals come from a 25yard rocketshot or a stop ball. Does the attack look fluid, incorporating #' or is it down the wing with the fast kid eating up 50 yards of field then crossing it? The last point will get you alot of success at an early age . Trying to do all the other will get you beat at a young age.

Ball movement at this age creates mistakes due to how the players are reading the game and their touch. As this improves they will literally " DISECT " a faster more athletic team in the future. Kickball is readable, but sometimes hard to match up with. Creativity , fluid ball movement,weak side attacking, attacking with numbers .. These are the things that will give defenses and goalies fits in the future.. Not high shots from just outside the 18. Want an example... Barcelona-- they possess from the back move it over the mid line . once the center has been gained they try to kick it through the gaps or over the top thus selling out the #'s They have worked hard to gain. They kick it long , thus creating another 50/50 ball.. If the win it , then it's a shot . If they don't they just gave possession away. And NO they didn't lose possession . They gave it away, taking a chance on long ball. So don't just watch and cheer the game on . Really step back and study the game . POSSESSION, POSSESSION, POSSESSION. Thats what demands SKILL.Thats what wins at the next level.

plantit wrote:

CLUB31 wrote:You guys constantly talk about kickball. Give me examples of coaches that teach kickball...Please..
Texan(Craft)- watched them play don't see kickball ...WHO?wHO? who? Give me examples twll us the teams that play u kickball in u11. Is it only the teams that lose. Not being a smartallic, just would like you to twll me/us.
FCDallas coaches/ Ryan/Suarez/Fig/----CC, Solar,COMETS, gunners, Barcelona,Chivas...Tell me who. You must be directing your kickball comments at someone. I can tell you I have watched some kickball no doubt about it, but are you saying all these teams play kickball above because that is the majority of the teams going to d1.
Tell me/us who?

I would say , "REALLY " watch the games . Are the goals scored by adding #'s to the attack or is it a break away? How many people are in the box when the goal is scored? How much movement of the ball takes place in the box where it is the most conjested? Do the defenders go on the attack? Is the ball just booted from the back or is field position gained from side to side switching? Does the backs and sweeper carry the ball? Are the goals scored by miss-direction, playing the ball back, and ball movement in tight spaces? Or do a majority of goals come from a 25yard rocketshot or a stop ball. Does the attack look fluid, incorporating #' or is it down the wing with the fast kid eating up 50 yards of field then crossing it? The last point will get you alot of success at an early age . Trying to do all the other will get you beat at a young age.

Ball movement at this age creates mistakes due to how the players are reading the game and their touch. As this improves they will literally " DISECT " a faster more athletic team in the future. Kickball is readable, but sometimes hard to match up with. Creativity , fluid ball movement,weak side attacking, attacking with numbers .. These are the things that will give defenses and goalies fits in the future.. Not high shots from just outside the 18. Want an example... Barcelona-- they possess from the back move it over the mid line . once the center has been gained they try to kick it through the gaps or over the top thus selling out the #'s They have worked hard to gain. They kick it long , thus creating another 50/50 ball.. If the win it , then it's a shot . If they don't they just gave possession away. And NO they didn't lose possession . They gave it away, taking a chance on long ball. So don't just watch and cheer the game on . Really step back and study the game . POSSESSION, POSSESSION, POSSESSION. Thats what demands SKILL.Thats what wins at the next level.

And I've only seen one team do this very well this season, DT. Barca can do it, too, but they still have weak spots whereas Craft doesn't, or at least doesn't every chance I get to watch.

Very interesting plantit. Your are right about Barca they do everything correctly until they want to reach their forward. Then they try to boot it to him and it gets sloppy. You've got quite an eye !

Ibystander wrote:

plantit wrote:

CLUB31 wrote:You guys constantly talk about kickball. Give me examples of coaches that teach kickball...Please..
Texan(Craft)- watched them play don't see kickball ...WHO?wHO? who? Give me examples twll us the teams that play u kickball in u11. Is it only the teams that lose. Not being a smartallic, just would like you to twll me/us.
FCDallas coaches/ Ryan/Suarez/Fig/----CC, Solar,COMETS, gunners, Barcelona,Chivas...Tell me who. You must be directing your kickball comments at someone. I can tell you I have watched some kickball no doubt about it, but are you saying all these teams play kickball above because that is the majority of the teams going to d1.
Tell me/us who?

I would say , "REALLY " watch the games . Are the goals scored by adding #'s to the attack or is it a break away? How many people are in the box when the goal is scored? How much movement of the ball takes place in the box where it is the most conjested? Do the defenders go on the attack? Is the ball just booted from the back or is field position gained from side to side switching? Does the backs and sweeper carry the ball? Are the goals scored by miss-direction, playing the ball back, and ball movement in tight spaces? Or do a majority of goals come from a 25yard rocketshot or a stop ball. Does the attack look fluid, incorporating #' or is it down the wing with the fast kid eating up 50 yards of field then crossing it? The last point will get you alot of success at an early age . Trying to do all the other will get you beat at a young age.

Ball movement at this age creates mistakes due to how the players are reading the game and their touch. As this improves they will literally " DISECT " a faster more athletic team in the future. Kickball is readable, but sometimes hard to match up with. Creativity , fluid ball movement,weak side attacking, attacking with numbers .. These are the things that will give defenses and goalies fits in the future.. Not high shots from just outside the 18. Want an example... Barcelona-- they possess from the back move it over the mid line . once the center has been gained they try to kick it through the gaps or over the top thus selling out the #'s They have worked hard to gain. They kick it long , thus creating another 50/50 ball.. If the win it , then it's a shot . If they don't they just gave possession away. And NO they didn't lose possession . They gave it away, taking a chance on long ball. So don't just watch and cheer the game on . Really step back and study the game . POSSESSION, POSSESSION, POSSESSION. Thats what demands SKILL.Thats what wins at the next level.

And I've only seen one team do this very well this season, DT. Barca can do it, too, but they still have weak spots whereas Craft doesn't, or at least doesn't every chance I get to watch.

so in your opinion only DT(craft) and Barcelona can do it?