Texans Fall Festival Seeding process

Anyone have any idea how the teams will be seeded for this tournament?

CL rankings, etc?

I'd appreciate any information.

Can a nonCL team in the qualifying bracket?

ask HN
only he knows

True. But, surely they aren't making it up as they go along?

That would severely damage their credibility.

Laimport wrote:True. But, surely they aren't making it up as they go along?

That would severely damage their credibility.

really? damage it with who? HN can do what he wants with HIS TEXANS and with whatever they are involved with and nothing will ever change that!! parents will complain but most will just stay and pay

Well if that is the case then we need to run a message up to Mt Olympus to Zeus (Hassan Nazzari) and tell him that the word among us mere mortals is that only Classic League teams will be in a qualifyiing bracket where they could advance to the coveted Cup spot and the rest of us shoeless peasants will play inconsequential bracket gamest...I guess for the enjoyment and pleasure of the rest of the Gods..

So exactly what is the real story.....your subjects are waiting....

futbolfiend wrote:Well if that is the case then we need to run a message up to Mt Olympus to Zeus (Hassan Nazzari) and tell him that the word among us mere mortals is that only Classic League teams will be in a qualifyiing bracket where they could advance to the coveted Cup spot and the rest of us shoeless peasants will play inconsequential bracket gamest...I guess for the enjoyment and pleasure of the rest of the Gods..

So exactly what is the real story.....your subjects are waiting....

well saideth

futbolfiend wrote:Well if that is the case then we need to run a message up to Mt Olympus to Zeus (Hassan Nazzari) and tell him that the word among us mere mortals is that only Classic League teams will be in a qualifyiing bracket where they could advance to the coveted Cup spot and the rest of us shoeless peasants will play inconsequential bracket gamest...I guess for the enjoyment and pleasure of the rest of the Gods..

So exactly what is the real story.....your subjects are waiting....

wouldn't the pre-academy teams need to be thrown in the mix with the cl team in the qualifying bracket? how would they be seeded against the cl teams?

The qualifying bracket should be seeded based on overall gs rankings. Not necessarily CL standings.

If anyone knows otherwise, please enlighten the rest of us.

Maybe look at the GS rankings and take them into consideration but the rankings themselves are pretty screwed up. In the 96 group last season DTR got 220 points fpor being the CL Grand Champion and 2nd thru 5th got more points than they did. Look at any age group and you will find large disparities in rankings and actual strength of the teams based on head to head, league play or common opponents.

my2cents, I agree on the disparities. However, I think if they are going to base the 'qualifying bracket' based on CL teams alone...well, that's both wrong and inefficient.

So, yeah all those factors should be taken into consideration.

I think a little 'disclosure' and transparency are in order.

futbolfiend wrote:Well if that is the case then we need to run a message up to Mt Olympus to Zeus (Hassan Nazzari) and tell him that the word among us mere mortals is that only Classic League teams will be in a qualifyiing bracket where they could advance to the coveted Cup spot and the rest of us shoeless peasants will play inconsequential bracket gamest...I guess for the enjoyment and pleasure of the rest of the Gods..

So exactly what is the real story.....your subjects are waiting....

HN: You want answers?
Futbolfiend: I think I'm entitled to them.
HN: You want answers?
Futbolfiend: I want the truth!
HN: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a country that has soccer. And soccer tournaments have to be run by men with experience. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Laimport? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for non-D1 teams and you curse the Texans. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that non-D1 teams, while lucrative for clubs, probably suck. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves soccer in all of North Texas. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me running those tournaments. You need me running those tournaments. We use words like money, boondoggle, outrageous entry fees...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent providing soccer fields for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You complain about them just because you have to pay me. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man whose children practice and play on the very fields I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide them! I'd rather you just said thank you, wrote a check, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a walkie-talkie and prevent people from parking on the street next to Ross Stewart. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Futbolfiend: Did you skew the seedings to favor the Texans?
HN: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Futbolfiend: Did you skew the seedings to favor the Texans?
HN: You're goddamn right I did!!

scrdad, well done. I give you points for the euphemisms.

Bottom line, though, you don't ask for someone's entry fee, then change the rules and expect others to just sit back and suck onit.

Hell, I'm not worried (at least not much) about the Texans seedings.

That's to be expected.

But limiting the 'qualifying bracket' to CL teams only won't be tolerated. I'll save my money and stay home that weekend.

The only real point in playing this thing is because it is a DC qualifier.

scrdad wrote:

futbolfiend wrote:Well if that is the case then we need to run a message up to Mt Olympus to Zeus (Hassan Nazzari) and tell him that the word among us mere mortals is that only Classic League teams will be in a qualifyiing bracket where they could advance to the coveted Cup spot and the rest of us shoeless peasants will play inconsequential bracket gamest...I guess for the enjoyment and pleasure of the rest of the Gods..

So exactly what is the real story.....your subjects are waiting....

HN: You want answers?
Futbolfiend: I think I'm entitled to them.
HN: You want answers?
Futbolfiend: I want the truth!
HN: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a country that has soccer. And soccer tournaments have to be run by men with experience. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Laimport? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for non-D1 teams and you curse the Texans. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that non-D1 teams, while lucrative for clubs, probably suck. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves soccer in all of North Texas. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me running those tournaments. You need me running those tournaments. We use words like money, boondoggle, outrageous entry fees...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent providing soccer fields for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You complain about them just because you have to pay me. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man whose children practice and play on the very fields I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide them! I'd rather you just said thank you, wrote a check, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a walkie-talkie and prevent people from parking on the street next to Ross Stewart. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Futbolfiend: Did you skew the seedings to favor the Texans?
HN: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Futbolfiend: Did you skew the seedings to favor the Texans?
HN: You're goddamn right I did!!

Post of the Year Hands Down!!!

Ok in all seriousness, I have no bones with Hassan or Texans. I would seed my own club as to give them the best chance to advance. We are from East Texas (and LA) and are in this tournament solely for the chance we might string some perfect games together and qualify for the cup. Without that opportunity, there is no reason to come to town. I think our play this fall (for the most part) should warrant that chance.

futbolfiend wrote:

scrdad wrote:

futbolfiend wrote:Well if that is the case then we need to run a message up to Mt Olympus to Zeus (Hassan Nazzari) and tell him that the word among us mere mortals is that only Classic League teams will be in a qualifyiing bracket where they could advance to the coveted Cup spot and the rest of us shoeless peasants will play inconsequential bracket gamest...I guess for the enjoyment and pleasure of the rest of the Gods..

So exactly what is the real story.....your subjects are waiting....

HN: You want answers?
Futbolfiend: I think I'm entitled to them.
HN: You want answers?
Futbolfiend: I want the truth!
HN: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a country that has soccer. And soccer tournaments have to be run by men with experience. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Laimport? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for non-D1 teams and you curse the Texans. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that non-D1 teams, while lucrative for clubs, probably suck. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves soccer in all of North Texas. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me running those tournaments. You need me running those tournaments. We use words like money, boondoggle, outrageous entry fees...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent providing soccer fields for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You complain about them just because you have to pay me. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man whose children practice and play on the very fields I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide them! I'd rather you just said thank you, wrote a check, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a walkie-talkie and prevent people from parking on the street next to Ross Stewart. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Futbolfiend: Did you skew the seedings to favor the Texans?
HN: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Futbolfiend: Did you skew the seedings to favor the Texans?
HN: You're goddamn right I did!!

Post of the Year Hands Down!!!

Ok in all seriousness, I have no bones with Hassan or Texans. I would seed my own club as to give them the best chance to advance. We are from East Texas (and LA) and are in this tournament solely for the chance we might string some perfect games together and qualify for the cup. Without that opportunity, there is no reason to come to town. I think our play this fall (for the most part) should warrant that chance.

There is another tournament the weekend after it that will have DC entry tied to it as well. Fc Dallas Bobby Rhine tourament has DC entry for the winners of U13 through U16 age brackets. If your team doesnt do so hot in the texans one try the FC Dallas tournament. Hope that helps.

thanks and yes I'm sure Bobby Rhine is a good tourney. Our beef is simply we signed up for this tourney (Texans Fall Festival) with the explicit offer that an outright win (for NTTSA) or finalist (outside NTSSA)gets you a golden ticket to the Dallas Cup. Rumors are swirling that not all teams in the 18 teams that were accepted are going to be able to play their way to the Cup (U-16)

not sure why everyone is so worked up about this....all Classic League teams in the qualifying age groups have already had their chance in league play to qualify for Dallas Cup. If those teams were not able to qualify coming from their own league then what specific preferential treatment is needed in these qualifying tournaments to help them qualify?
As for non-north texas teams---good luck to you all! The Texans tournament is a well run, competitive tournament and attracts competitive teams!

The PreAcademy teams, as stated in the Dallas Cup rules, are required to play up one year in age level thus leveling the playing field per se. I honestly do not see what the issue is? Please explain.

There is going to be no preference to classic or NPL teams, never has been...Out of town teams get the benefit of the doubt, usually. Got soccer points is usually where it is started, strength of opponents is also factored in, hopefully some common opponents in there. My guess is the top bracket will be much larger than the second...because no-one wants to get left out.

Let's assume 16 in the top flight...anyone want to take a shot at the seeding?

The following brackets are for the 98 group...

First I seeded PreAcademy teams 1,2,3 (Texans, Solar, FCD based on how they finished last year)
Then used region III ranking to determine the remainder of the seeding. (except 1 OKlahoma team that I moved up into the 16th seed, based on them ranked 5th in OK)
All other teams would be place in non DC qualifying bracket.

[/table] Region III STX NTX OK
Dallas Texans Soccer Club Dallas Texans U14 PreAcademy-NPL Texas North 180 41
AYSES Soccer Club AYSES 98 Boys Gold Texas North 22 11
FC Dallas WTX FC Dallas WTX 98B Texas North 23 8
West Side Alliance WSA 98 Oklahoma 88 5

Solar Solar Chelsea U14 98 Pre-Academy Texas North 68 18
Kicks FC Kicks FC 98B Texas North 17 7
Dallas Texans 98B Texas North 24 10
FC Hawks FC Hawks Texas North 42 16

FC Dallas Pre Academy 98 - NPL Texas North none none
DFW Tejanos 98B Premier Texas North 15 6
DALLAS TIGRES ACADEMY Dallas Tigres 98B Gold Texas North 25 5
Real Madrid AC 98 Texas North 38 9

Solar Chelsea 98B Texas North 4 2
Dallas Pumas Premier FC Dallas Pumas Premier FC 98BC Texas North 11 3
Fort Worth FC 98B White Texas North 27 12
Oklahoma Football Club OFC 98 Oklahoma 33 1

soccermom14 wrote:not sure why everyone is so worked up about this....all Classic League teams in the qualifying age groups have already had their chance in league play to qualify for Dallas Cup. If those teams were not able to qualify coming from their own league then what specific preferential treatment is needed in these qualifying tournaments to help them qualify?
As for non-north texas teams---good luck to you all! The Texans tournament is a well run, competitive tournament and attracts competitive teams!

The PreAcademy teams, as stated in the Dallas Cup rules, are required to play up one year in age level thus leveling the playing field per se. I honestly do not see what the issue is? Please explain.

The issue is that there has been talk that only CL teams would be in the 'qualifying bracket'.

If that's true...that's false advertising.

And, at a minimum, refunds need to be issued.

If that is the case.

IF you read the Dallas Cup qualifying rules set forth by the Dallas Cup, there is no mention that the "winners" of each age group be from Classic League. I think that this wishful thinking on the part of teams that play in CL and have yet to qualifying.

Here is the link to the Dallas Cup rules:
http://www.dallascup.com/qualproced/index_E.html

These are the rules in which the tournaments must follow to promote their age group winners into the Dallas Cup. HEre is an exerpt of those rules that may be causing the concrn. See the Note item.

"Multiple Ways of Qualifying for the 2013 Dr Pepper Dallas Cup XXXIV

(a) Dallas Metro Area USSF Development Academy U17/18 and U15/16 teams will qualify automatically in the Dallas Cup U19 and U17 age groups.
(b) Classic League teams that play in Division One and finish in first place after the completion of Round One of league play is completed will qualify. Completion of Round One is when each team has played the other 9 teams in their age group for the first time. Final results for each age group will be determined by the Classic League after all Classic League tie-breakers, if needed, are applied.
(c) Dallas Cup Host Club teams that meet the criteria set forth in item #3 will qualify.
(d) Qualifying Tournament #1-Dallas Texans Fall Festival, November 16-18, 2012. The U13, U14, U15 and U16 tournament age group winners will qualify.
(e) Qualifying Tournament #2-Bobby Rhine Invitational Tournament, November 23-25, 2012. The U13, U14, U15 and U16 tournament age group winners will qualify.

Note: If any team should qualify in more than one manner (i.e. finish 1st in Classic League Round One AND win either of the Qualifying Tournaments, etc.) only one invitation will be extended and the “second invitation” so to speak will NOT automatically go to the next best finishing team. The Dallas Cup office retains the right to extend or not extend the “second invitation” as it sees fit as per the table shown below. "

And--if only CL teams would be allowed in the Qualifying bracket why would the rules allow for NPL- PreAcademy teams special playing up requirements should an NPL team win?

PA and DA teams 'playing up' is somewhat of a misnomer.

A '98 PA team is described as 'u14'. However, players born jan 1 thru July 31 of 98 would be U15 club players. (Probably most of the roster.)

A 'U16' DA team this year is comprised of players born in 96 and 97. Players born between jan 1 and July 31 of 96 are U17 club players.

The 'overlap' between the age groups is 5 months. That can be significant for the youngest PA age groups. Very little difference for DA teams.

Laimport wrote:

soccermom14 wrote:not sure why everyone is so worked up about this....all Classic League teams in the qualifying age groups have already had their chance in league play to qualify for Dallas Cup. If those teams were not able to qualify coming from their own league then what specific preferential treatment is needed in these qualifying tournaments to help them qualify?
As for non-north texas teams---good luck to you all! The Texans tournament is a well run, competitive tournament and attracts competitive teams!

The PreAcademy teams, as stated in the Dallas Cup rules, are required to play up one year in age level thus leveling the playing field per se. I honestly do not see what the issue is? Please explain.

The issue is that there has been talk that only CL teams would be in the 'qualifying bracket'.

If that's true...that's false advertising.

And, at a minimum, refunds need to be issued.

If that is the case.

Talk is cheap...for sure the NPL teams are going to get a chance in the qualifying bracket...that is thier only way in. The others let in the qualifing will be based on resume...I am sure they will offer refunds if neccessary.

I think any top 10 NTX team (regardless of status or affiliation) should be seeded in the qualifying bracket.

Granted, I expect certain teams will get preferential seeding. (Based on perceived pedigree or affiliation) That's not my point.

Specifically, an 'indy' team that is ranked top 10 should, in no way be excluded from the qualifying bracket.

Why should any team be excluded?