Texans Fall Festival Seeding process

The German wrote:The problem is they are North Texas but not Metro so neither of the 2 will work. IMO. It seems that there is some confusion, propably I'm confused. I hope it all works out for everybody.

If your manager has any questions, have your manager contact the tournament director...

toffeemate wrote:

The German wrote:The problem is they are North Texas but not Metro so neither of the 2 will work. IMO. It seems that there is some confusion, propably I'm confused. I hope it all works out for everybody.

If your manager has any questions, have your manager contact the tournament director...

He has and He has..to date the responses have been lets just say "vague"

toffeemate wrote:2012 Dallas Texans Fall Festival Rules
11. The DTSC Fall Festival is a Qualifying Tournament for the 2013 Dr. Pepper Dallas Cup XXXIV. The Winners of each age group Boys U13, Boys U14, Boys U15 and Boys U16 plus any Non North Texas State Association team that is a finalist in those age groups will get automatic entry to the 2013 Dallas Cup XXXIV in those age groups.

If your manager has any questions, have your manager contact the tournament director... Its pretty simple

Read carefully. It says winners of the age group qualify PLUS any non-NTSSA finalist will get automatic entry.....

Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

Turftoe96 wrote:Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

You may be right sir. However, that's not the point. When you are told one thing and then the 'rules' are changed, then that's bad business.

All we want is the opportunity to play the best teams. I have no delusions that the seedings will be 100% accurate. Just deliver what was promised.

Laimport wrote:

Turftoe96 wrote:Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

You may be right sir. However, that's not the point. When you are told one thing and then the 'rules' are changed, then that's bad business.

All we want is the opportunity to play the best teams. I have no delusions that the seedings will be 100% accurate. Just deliver what was promised.

We play the games for a reason, right?

Turftoe96 wrote:Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

I will concede your point partially, and I have been one to stoke this fire but I am done after this post, The Texans will do what they want and if we are not included in the Qualifying bracket then we are not included and all the crying and complaining won't alter their decision. It is just the team (ETX Premier 97 u-16 bracket) has built its entire schedule and training to build for this one opportunity. Could we compete with FCD Blue or Andromeda, I think we can, we beat a team that drew with both FC Dallas Blue and Andromeda Pre Academy at Plano Labor Day. We have won 3 of the last 4 tourneys we played. We might get embarrassed or we might surprise some people, but I think our current ranking and performance since summer at least warrants us the opportunity to step out on the field to try and prove it. We have literally been begging the Metro Teams for friendlies in Dallas on Sundays after your CL games on Saturday begging your PA's begging your DA's heck we don't care we just want to play. I am not one for conspiracy theories but it does make you wonder if there is a concerted effort to "blackball" Indie's. Is it possible that the powers to be don't want to explain to their parents how a rag tag working class group of Hispanics and African american (with a few white kids)soccer players with semi volunteer coaches (we cover expenses) where some of our kids struggle to come up with $50 a month and our moms cook enchiladas to cover travel expenses can come to Dallas and compete with the High dollar clubs with their professional paid coaches and exorbitant fees. I mean how would that look, we can't have parents questioning their decision to spend thousands each year..can we?

Anyway, I am off my soapbox, best of luck to the participants, we hope to be there (in the qualifying bracket)

You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

futbolfiend wrote:

Turftoe96 wrote:Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

I will concede your point partially, and I have been one to stoke this fire but I am done after this post, The Texans will do what they want and if we are not included in the Qualifying bracket then we are not included and all the crying and complaining won't alter their decision. It is just the team (ETX Premier 97 u-16 bracket) has built its entire schedule and training to build for this one opportunity. Could we compete with FCD Blue or Andromeda, I think we can, we beat a team that drew with both FC Dallas Blue and Andromeda Pre Academy at Plano Labor Day. We have won 3 of the last 4 tourneys we played. We might get embarrassed or we might surprise some people, but I think our current ranking and performance since summer at least warrants us the opportunity to step out on the field to try and prove it. We have literally been begging the Metro Teams for friendlies in Dallas on Sundays after your CL games on Saturday begging your PA's begging your DA's heck we don't care we just want to play. I am not one for conspiracy theories but it does make you wonder if there is a concerted effort to "blackball" Indie's. Is it possible that the powers to be don't want to explain to their parents how a rag tag working class group of Hispanics and African american (with a few white kids)soccer players with semi volunteer coaches (we cover expenses) where some of our kids struggle to come up with $50 a month and our moms cook enchiladas to cover travel expenses can come to Dallas and compete with the High dollar clubs with their professional paid coaches and exorbitant fees. I mean how would that look, we can't have parents questioning their decision to spend thousands each year..can we?

Anyway, I am off my soapbox, best of luck to the participants, we hope to be there (in the qualifying bracket)

This has been an interesting thread and I will be interested to see how it comes out in the end. Let us know if you indeed get into the Qualifying Bracket and get a chance at the Dallas Cup. I for one think you should get a shot, but my vote does not count.

As for your rant above, I think that is a little unfair. I tend to agree with My2cents that the big clubs have no reason to scrimmage an indie team from outside the metroplex after they have already had a tough league game on Saturday. There is no benefit for the big club, and they could easily set up a scrimmage with a top team within their own club.

The class warfare and racial comments are also a little off, based upon the fact that many teams on the larger clubs are also made up of hispanic, african-american and white working class folks. Don't see your point here. A lot of these kids are on scholarship or their parents make sacrifices so they can play on these clubs.

Gatorz wrote:

futbolfiend wrote:

Turftoe96 wrote:Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

I will concede your point partially, and I have been one to stoke this fire but I am done after this post, The Texans will do what they want and if we are not included in the Qualifying bracket then we are not included and all the crying and complaining won't alter their decision. It is just the team (ETX Premier 97 u-16 bracket) has built its entire schedule and training to build for this one opportunity. Could we compete with FCD Blue or Andromeda, I think we can, we beat a team that drew with both FC Dallas Blue and Andromeda Pre Academy at Plano Labor Day. We have won 3 of the last 4 tourneys we played. We might get embarrassed or we might surprise some people, but I think our current ranking and performance since summer at least warrants us the opportunity to step out on the field to try and prove it. We have literally been begging the Metro Teams for friendlies in Dallas on Sundays after your CL games on Saturday begging your PA's begging your DA's heck we don't care we just want to play. I am not one for conspiracy theories but it does make you wonder if there is a concerted effort to "blackball" Indie's. Is it possible that the powers to be don't want to explain to their parents how a rag tag working class group of Hispanics and African american (with a few white kids)soccer players with semi volunteer coaches (we cover expenses) where some of our kids struggle to come up with $50 a month and our moms cook enchiladas to cover travel expenses can come to Dallas and compete with the High dollar clubs with their professional paid coaches and exorbitant fees. I mean how would that look, we can't have parents questioning their decision to spend thousands each year..can we?

Anyway, I am off my soapbox, best of luck to the participants, we hope to be there (in the qualifying bracket)

This has been an interesting thread and I will be interested to see how it comes out in the end. Let us know if you indeed get into the Qualifying Bracket and get a chance at the Dallas Cup. I for one think you should get a shot, but my vote does not count.

As for your rant above, I think that is a little unfair. I tend to agree with My2cents that the big clubs have no reason to scrimmage an indie team from outside the metroplex after they have already had a tough league game on Saturday. There is no benefit for the big club, and they could easily set up a scrimmage with a top team within their own club.

The class warfare and racial comments are also a little off, based upon the fact that many teams on the larger clubs are also made up of hispanic, african-american and white working class folks. Don't see your point here. A lot of these kids are on scholarship or their parents make sacrifices so they can play on these clubs.

All teams should get the should the shot to play for the spot, but I agree about the rant. My kid plays for FCD and I and many of the parents make huge sacrifices so our kids can play on these clubs. We are all in this SCAM together!!!!

Gatorz wrote:

futbolfiend wrote:

Turftoe96 wrote:Let's all tap the brake here. It’s not a controversy unless one of the teams in question actually wins the tournament. If we're honest with ourselves and many of us aren't, that's going to be a stretch. It would be a tall order for any of those teams to beat FCD Blue or Andromeda or any of the Pre-Academy teams. My affiliation is with FCD Gold so I'm not pumping up my team.
Not saying it couldn't happen, just not likely. With that said good luck to all the teams!
I hope you all have a great tournament and I wish you could all get second place right behind Gold.

I will concede your point partially, and I have been one to stoke this fire but I am done after this post, The Texans will do what they want and if we are not included in the Qualifying bracket then we are not included and all the crying and complaining won't alter their decision. It is just the team (ETX Premier 97 u-16 bracket) has built its entire schedule and training to build for this one opportunity. Could we compete with FCD Blue or Andromeda, I think we can, we beat a team that drew with both FC Dallas Blue and Andromeda Pre Academy at Plano Labor Day. We have won 3 of the last 4 tourneys we played. We might get embarrassed or we might surprise some people, but I think our current ranking and performance since summer at least warrants us the opportunity to step out on the field to try and prove it. We have literally been begging the Metro Teams for friendlies in Dallas on Sundays after your CL games on Saturday begging your PA's begging your DA's heck we don't care we just want to play. I am not one for conspiracy theories but it does make you wonder if there is a concerted effort to "blackball" Indie's. Is it possible that the powers to be don't want to explain to their parents how a rag tag working class group of Hispanics and African american (with a few white kids)soccer players with semi volunteer coaches (we cover expenses) where some of our kids struggle to come up with $50 a month and our moms cook enchiladas to cover travel expenses can come to Dallas and compete with the High dollar clubs with their professional paid coaches and exorbitant fees. I mean how would that look, we can't have parents questioning their decision to spend thousands each year..can we?

Anyway, I am off my soapbox, best of luck to the participants, we hope to be there (in the qualifying bracket)

This has been an interesting thread and I will be interested to see how it comes out in the end. Let us know if you indeed get into the Qualifying Bracket and get a chance at the Dallas Cup. I for one think you should get a shot, but my vote does not count.

As for your rant above, I think that is a little unfair. I tend to agree with My2cents that the big clubs have no reason to scrimmage an indie team from outside the metroplex after they have already had a tough league game on Saturday. There is no benefit for the big club, and they could easily set up a scrimmage with a top team within their own club.

The class warfare and racial comments are also a little off, based upon the fact that many teams on the larger clubs are also made up of hispanic, african-american and white working class folks. Don't see your point here. A lot of these kids are on scholarship or their parents make sacrifices so they can play on these clubs.

Yes and I should have deleted my stream of consciousness rant before I hit the send button, Frustration I guess but no excuses for it and I sincerely apologize..

I freely admit to some envy and admiration for the Metro soccer clubs. You have beautiful fields, great coaches and on and on. Its frustrating as a parent when you have kids that live and breath soccer and you know you are looking at a 200 mile drive in any direction to get them some meaningful games. I sent one off a 1000 miles so he could chase his dream at a residential soccer academy. The other is fortunate to stay home because we found such a great group of kids parents and coaches just an hour down the freeway. I know that the big clubs do a great job with outreach in the form of scholarships and so again I apologize for the remarks about working class kids etc. Just got on a roll and got my foot in my mouth.

ok now back to work and I will try to stay off this thread

"our moms cook enchiladas to cover travel expenses can come to Dallas "

I hope you get your shot and hey bring some of those enchiladas with you. i will happily donate to your cause

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

I think we should all keep in mind that the Dallas cup people are not about development or fairness, they are about putting on a world class tournament. For that they need hosting teams (metro area) and teams that will enhance the reputation or profile of the tournament. Unless a ETX team is very high profile and has won alot of big tournaments I don't see them providing either for the tournament so I don't imagine there would be alot of concern about getting them into the DC.

go, normally we are on the same page. But I have to disagree with this one.

For one, if nothing else, I would think they would want to field the most competitive teams possible.

So, without 'equal opportunity' that cannot be accomplished.

The thing that gets me is they distinguish between "metro" teams and "NTX teams".

if teams from outside NTX can qualify (based on record/pedigree, whatever...) then how is a team that happens to be based out of ETX be any different?

Case in point. I believe in the past teams from the Region 3 Central Premier league have been extended invitations. Well, generally speaking the Central subregion teams (AR, La, MS, AL and TN) are much weaker than teams from the West PL and the East (Fla, Ga and the Carolinas)

ETP is ranked well inside the top 10 in NTX and well inside the top 40 for Region 3. Of the 18 teams 'accepted' thus far for Texans, they are in the top 8. And that's not including PA teams.

I don't know what anyone's definition of 'high profile' is, but I guess if you aren't CL D1, PA or premier league west, you have nothing to offer the Dallas Cup.

And let's be honest, it's not like many of the Dallas based, nonDA/PA teams did very well last year.

I understand the 'branding' side of the tournament. But how can the tournament improve NTX soccer's standing and reputation if you exclude teams that possibly could be competitive?

This bears repeating. But, we asked the committee from the beginning if we would be seeded in the qualifying bracket and if we were fortunate enough to win that we would be automatically invited to DC.

So, to me, this is a case of club politics and croneyism...it's not about preserving the "integrity of the qualifying process" or even the Dallas Cup itself.

If nothing else, we deserve a straight up explanation and a refund.

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

What excuse?? Example. My son is a 96 on a D1 DT team. We scimmaged some outside teams preseason. In season we have scrimmaged DT 97s, 95s and U16 DA. We scrimmage on practice nights and do not practice on Sundays unless we have no games on the weekend (once). Why would we scrimmage an indy on a Sunday. What is the benefit to us. I would imagine that is about the same situation for FCD and Solar and the other age groups.
Previously he was on a very small club and we had the same problem. As we rose in the ranks it was hard to find good friendlies. The bigs would not do it. We found small club and indy 95s and even 94s that were looking for a good challenge.

the reason they are different is that the Dallas based teams must host kids and the teams from outside the metroplex cannot. So basically the DC is getting host families. As far as high profile goes, our opinions don't matter only the DC does. I would assume they would be looking for teams that would draw others. I do think that the qulifying tournament should refund the money as you are not really getting what you paid for but that is a tournament issue not the DC. And since its the Texan tournament, good luck getting any money back from HN. If you cannot get the money I would suggest winning the tournament and anything else that you can. Go for making a statement as there will be plenty of invites to go around. But if you are putting on a tournament and you have a invite do you send it to a team from ETX or do you extend it to lets say Chicago magic? So we are on the same page as I agree with you as to what "should" happen and your team is probably not the only one that the Texans "mislead". After all they want as many teams as they can get for their tournament.

go99 wrote:I think we should all keep in mind that the Dallas cup people are not about development or fairness, they are about putting on a world class tournament. For that they need hosting teams (metro area) and teams that will enhance the reputation or profile of the tournament. Unless a ETX team is very high profile and has won alot of big tournaments I don't see them providing either for the tournament so I don't imagine there would be alot of concern about getting them into the DC.

This may surprise you but I absolutely agree with everything you just said. From the Dallas Cup perspective I would not expect them to give a fig about an Indie team from East Texas-we would neither enhance the prestige or be able to provide hosting duties as you mention. From the perspective of the Dallas Texans Tournament committee if you don't want even the possibility that a non metro but North Texas team might qualify then simply do not allow them to participate.

They can allow in whom they want under any circumstance they want--I accept that premise.

The only caveat is IF you are going to advertise that this tournament IS a qualifier for the Winner (anybody) or Finalist (Non North Texas)and a team that on paper at least appears to be able to compete with the big metro teams then don't shuttle them to a non qualifying bracket so as to avoid the possibility (slight or not)that they might qualify. But other than that yes, The Dallas Cup is an awesome thing and every team that earns or is invited to participate should be deserving..

my2cents wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

What excuse?? Example. My son is a 96 on a D1 DT team. We scimmaged some outside teams preseason. In season we have scrimmaged DT 97s, 95s and U16 DA. We scrimmage on practice nights and do not practice on Sundays unless we have no games on the weekend (once). Why would we scrimmage an indy on a Sunday. What is the benefit to us. I would imagine that is about the same situation for FCD and Solar and the other age groups.
Previously he was on a very small club and we had the same problem. As we rose in the ranks it was hard to find good friendlies. The bigs would not do it. We found small club and indy 95s and even 94s that were looking for a good challenge.

my2cents, I don't think you read my post thoroughly.

I said I perfectly understand why teams wouldn't want to disrupt their league game flow by scheduling a friendly. But, I also said there are plenty of opportunities during the margins of the season. (Preseason, between fall/spring, etc.)

And I also said that none of these teams to my knowledge have even shown the professional courtesy of a reply or explanation.

go99 wrote:the reason they are different is that the Dallas based teams must host kids and the teams from outside the metroplex cannot. So basically the DC is getting host families. As far as high profile goes, our opinions don't matter only the DC does. I would assume they would be looking for teams that would draw others. I do think that the qulifying tournament should refund the money as you are not really getting what you paid for but that is a tournament issue not the DC. And since its the Texan tournament, good luck getting any money back from HN. If you cannot get the money I would suggest winning the tournament and anything else that you can. Go for making a statement as there will be plenty of invites to go around. But if you are putting on a tournament and you have a invite do you send it to a team from ETX or do you extend it to lets say Chicago magic? So we are on the same page as I agree with you as to what "should" happen and your team is probably not the only one that the Texans "mislead". After all they want as many teams as they can get for their tournament.

go, I understand what you're saying. But, what's the difference between a 'nonmetro' and a 'nonNTX' team? It's strictly semantics considering team hosting isn't an option for either.

That aside, why have specific qualifying criteria for nonmetro and nonNTX teams qualifying if you have no intention of following through with it?

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

Mighty proud of yourself, aren't you, 'refs'?

Laimport wrote:

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

Mighty proud of yourself, aren't you, 'refs'?

My viewpoint is no more skewed then yours sir...

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

ok, can't let this dig go without a response because while in theory and without knowing anything about the squad I could understand your disdain I don't think in our case its justified. I am reminded of the South Park episode where the Prius drivers like to stand around and bask in their own flatulence

You see like you I also have a child that is in the DA, I've been to Disney, CASL, Dallas Cup, Phoenix, SUM CUP to name a few and I feel relatively qualified to judge relative strengths of top teams. Never have I insinuated that our 20 kids drawn from a demographic of 400,000 people could play even with 4 DA squads drawn from a 6 million person demographic. All I have ever said is that we could compete with Classic League D1 teams and I stand by that assertion.

The DA is not without its warts and while I support US Soccer's attempt to standardize development across the country I fear it will devolve back into the same win at all costs mentality prevalent in "some not all' USYSA clubs.

However one may feel about the validity or the wrongdoing/misrepresentation regarding the Texans and DC, it is safe to say that the Texans have some very unhappy customers.

With all the other issues they have, this certainly doesn't bode well for business.

I'm even more pessimistic than futbolfiend on the DA. With perhaps a handful of exceptions, it's just business as usual for them.

futbolfiend wrote:

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

ok, can't let this dig go without a response because while in theory and without knowing anything about the squad I could understand your disdain I don't think in our case its justified. I am reminded of the South Park episode where the Prius drivers like to stand around and bask in their own flatulence

You see like you I also have a child that is in the DA, I've been to Disney, CASL, Dallas Cup, Phoenix, SUM CUP to name a few and I feel relatively qualified to judge relative strengths of top teams. Never have I insinuated that our 20 kids drawn from a demographic of 400,000 people could play even with 4 DA squads drawn from a 6 million person demographic. All I have ever said is that we could compete with Classic League D1 teams and I stand by that assertion.

The DA is not without its warts and while I support US Soccer's attempt to standardize development across the country I fear it will devolve back into the same win at all costs mentality prevalent in "some not all' USYSA clubs.

You are laimpart's reasonable alter ego... I really hope ETX gets a shot to prove it in this tournament, I think they've earned that.