Texans Fall Festival Seeding process

futbolfiend wrote:

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

ok, can't let this dig go without a response because while in theory and without knowing anything about the squad I could understand your disdain I don't think in our case its justified. I am reminded of the South Park episode where the Prius drivers like to stand around and bask in their own flatulence

You see like you I also have a child that is in the DA, I've been to Disney, CASL, Dallas Cup, Phoenix, SUM CUP to name a few and I feel relatively qualified to judge relative strengths of top teams. Never have I insinuated that our 20 kids drawn from a demographic of 400,000 people could play even with 4 DA squads drawn from a 6 million person demographic. All I have ever said is that we could compete with Classic League D1 teams and I stand by that assertion.

The DA is not without its warts and while I support US Soccer's attempt to standardize development across the country I fear it will devolve back into the same win at all costs mentality prevalent in "some not all' USYSA clubs.

You are laimpart's reasonable alter ego... I really hope ETX gets a shot to prove it in this tournament, I think they've earned that.

question ref's, how is my view more 'skewed' than yours? Please. Explain...

love_your_refs wrote:

futbolfiend wrote:

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Here is the view from the otherside. My BB U16 DA team does not scrimmage full-sided for developement, there developement is better done on small sided games. As far as scrimmaging outside the club haven't seen a need for it at all, they get plenty of variety from league and tounrament play, the few scrimmages they do are just to have fun and stay sharp on an off weekend. It is better done within the club, because the boys often know each other which incentivises them to win, but also keeps the dirty play and reckless collisions to a minimum to avoid injury. They usually scrimmage the U18 DA or the U19 team that went to nationals this year. There results are favorable agains the U19 team. I am not sure what developement you think they would get from scrimmaging ETX 97, or why you think they would get any so please, but IMHO they would get just as much out of scrimmaging a local rec team as ETX 97.(which would both be worthless or even negative value)

As far as ETX winning 3 out of 4 tourneys, unless one of them is nationals, I wouldn't expect a call. If you called our coach I bet he got a good laugh out of it.

ok, can't let this dig go without a response because while in theory and without knowing anything about the squad I could understand your disdain I don't think in our case its justified. I am reminded of the South Park episode where the Prius drivers like to stand around and bask in their own flatulence

You see like you I also have a child that is in the DA, I've been to Disney, CASL, Dallas Cup, Phoenix, SUM CUP to name a few and I feel relatively qualified to judge relative strengths of top teams. Never have I insinuated that our 20 kids drawn from a demographic of 400,000 people could play even with 4 DA squads drawn from a 6 million person demographic. All I have ever said is that we could compete with Classic League D1 teams and I stand by that assertion.

The DA is not without its warts and while I support US Soccer's attempt to standardize development across the country I fear it will devolve back into the same win at all costs mentality prevalent in "some not all' USYSA clubs.

You are laimpart's reasonable alter ego... I really hope ETX gets a shot to prove it in this tournament, I think they've earned that.

and I appreciate your sense of humor and at the end of the day we are here for our children and the sport... I do love it so..to all best regards for now --Futbolfiend

Laimport wrote:However one may feel about the validity or the wrongdoing/misrepresentation regarding the Texans and DC, it is safe to say that the Texans have some very unhappy customers.

With all the other issues they have, this certainly doesn't bode well for business.

I'm even more pessimistic than futbolfiend on the DA. With perhaps a handful of exceptions, it's just business as usual for them.

From what I have seen so far, clubs do make an attempt to conform to USSF ratings...here are my examples of that happening. Both of the following teams were dinged for style of play in last years DA evals. This year:

- Andromeda and Classic Elite don't pack it in to try to earn ties, even though they are often out gunned by the other guys as far as number of top players.
- Hassan has taken a back seat in coaching the DA team, and they seem to be trying more possession.

For the folks that were already conforming to USSF DA standards to a large degree before DA. I think there is evidence of development focus as well:
-Solar is more proud of placing all of its players in college than any results from last year.
-FCDallas is not afraid to take less polished super athlete, that might turn pro and develope him into a soccer player, over a perhaps more polished soccer player, that might not have the elite of the elite athleticism to go pro, but can help them win today.

Nothing is perfect, but I see DA system as better than before.

Laimport,

Take this for what its worth but most of the better teams in the metroplex aren't going to see any reason to scrimmage a team from east Texas that may very well have "something to prove" during a scrimmage.

You're a new team. You feel like the rankings don't accurately reflect the level of play your team displays. Playing a top 5 team, even in a scrimmage is a chance for your team to demonstrate it's competitiveness. And given your "Peacocking" on this forum, it's pretty clear your team (or at least the parents) have a pretty big chip on their shoulder regarding the perceived competitiveness of their team.

And as another on here noted, scrimmages aren't intended to be competitive, they are intended to be instructional (or at least that how my son's team uses them, he's on a top 5 u17 D1 squad presently). My son's team scrimmaged the PA u15 team and the DA u16/17 team from his club, they also scrimmage their coach's other teams (he has a very solid group of older kisd). In the several years he's played on this team, the team has never scrimmaged a team from another club and I don't anticipate that will change for reasons already mentioned. Why risk it? The team already plays enough competitive matches, scrimmages are utilized for development.

Additionally, while I understand your feelings regarding the invites to the DC, look at it from another perspective. Yours is an unproven team that hasn't been around very long in its current configuration. Your ranking isn't that great (at the very least it is not good enough to get you into a top national, arguably international, level tournament). And you really don't have much of a resume at this point (to my knowledge you haven't won any recent national level tournaments) that you could use to leverage your way in. And on top of all of that, you're competing against teams with years of top level play on their respective resumes.

If you were a higher ranked team, you'd have an argument that the seeding process utilized by the Texans in setting the brackets for their tournament was flawed, you aren't, so you really don't. If you had a better resume (several national level tournament wins, undefeated in Classic League, or something along those lines) you'd have a solid argument that you were wronged, you don't have those wins so you really don't have that argument.

I understand your frustration, but if you are going to play on a newly formed team, it's something everyone has to deal with and its a risk you knowingly take. Bitching about it on an internet forum certainly isn't going to help your cause any.

All that said, I do wish you luck and think you deserve the opportunity to attempt to play your way in. Don't think you'll necessarily make it, but I thin it'll be good for you to actually see where you stand relative to the other teams in your age bracket in a tournament that actually means something.

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:However one may feel about the validity or the wrongdoing/misrepresentation regarding the Texans and DC, it is safe to say that the Texans have some very unhappy customers.

With all the other issues they have, this certainly doesn't bode well for business.

I'm even more pessimistic than futbolfiend on the DA. With perhaps a handful of exceptions, it's just business as usual for them.

From what I have seen so far, clubs do make an attempt to conform to USSF ratings...here are my examples of that happening. Both of the following teams were dinged for style of play in last years DA evals. This year:

- Andromeda and Classic Elite don't pack it in to try to earn ties, even though they are often out gunned by the other guys as far as number of top players.
- Hassan has taken a back seat in coaching the DA team, and they seem to be trying more possession.

For the folks that were already conforming to USSF DA standards to a large degree before DA. I think there is evidence of development focus as well:
-Solar is more proud of placing all of its players in college than any results from last year.
-FCDallas is not afraid to take less polished super athlete, that might turn pro and develope him into a soccer player, over a perhaps more polished soccer player, that might not have the elite of the elite athleticism to go pro, but can help them win today.

Nothing is perfect, but I see DA system as better than before.

I certainly agree that DA is (in theory at least) a step in the right direction. And I also see a lot of merit in your earlier post that DA teams really feel or see any need in playing friendlies against indies...or any other team not deemed 'elite enough'.

I'd still like to hear your explanation on my 'skewed view' though.

Laimport wrote:question ref's, how is my view more 'skewed' than yours? Please. Explain...

He didn't say your view was more skewed, he said it was as skewed.

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:However one may feel about the validity or the wrongdoing/misrepresentation regarding the Texans and DC, it is safe to say that the Texans have some very unhappy customers.

With all the other issues they have, this certainly doesn't bode well for business.

I'm even more pessimistic than futbolfiend on the DA. With perhaps a handful of exceptions, it's just business as usual for them.

From what I have seen so far, clubs do make an attempt to conform to USSF ratings...here are my examples of that happening. Both of the following teams were dinged for style of play in last years DA evals. This year:

- Andromeda and Classic Elite don't pack it in to try to earn ties, even though they are often out gunned by the other guys as far as number of top players.
- Hassan has taken a back seat in coaching the DA team, and they seem to be trying more possession.

For the folks that were already conforming to USSF DA standards to a large degree before DA. I think there is evidence of development focus as well:
-Solar is more proud of placing all of its players in college than any results from last year.
-FCDallas is not afraid to take less polished super athlete, that might turn pro and develope him into a soccer player, over a perhaps more polished soccer player, that might not have the elite of the elite athleticism to go pro, but can help them win today.

Nothing is perfect, but I see DA system as better than before.

What you said there at the end is interesting as it relates to all the talk about development around here on this forum. The complaint is usually that teams overlook the smaller, more skilled player in favor of the atheletic, powerful fast players. You assert that FCD intentionally takes the super athlete that is less polished in terms of soccer ability than the polished player that is not the elite athlete. I have always thought that is the way to go for a team, ( ie take the best athletes and turn them into players). But, this also flies in the face of the Barcelona model of taking great players at a young age, such as the messi's ineista's of the world.

Did I read that correctly?

DragonStryker wrote:Laimport,

Take this for what its worth but most of the better teams in the metroplex aren't going to see any reason to scrimmage a team from east Texas that may very well have "something to prove" during a scrimmage.

You're a new team. You feel like the rankings don't accurately reflect the level of play your team displays. Playing a top 5 team, even in a scrimmage is a chance for your team to demonstrate it's competitiveness. And given your "Peacocking" on this forum, it's pretty clear your team (or at least the parents) have a pretty big chip on their shoulder regarding the perceived competitiveness of their team.

And as another on here noted, scrimmages aren't intended to be competitive, they are intended to be instructional (or at least that how my son's team uses them, he's on a top 5 u17 D1 squad presently). My son's team scrimmaged the PA u15 team and the DA u16/17 team from his club, they also scrimmage their coach's other teams (he has a very solid group of older kisd). In the several years he's played on this team, the team has never scrimmaged a team from another club and I don't anticipate that will change for reasons already mentioned. Why risk it? The team already plays enough competitive matches, scrimmages are utilized for development.

Additionally, while I understand your feelings regarding the invites to the DC, look at it from another perspective. Yours is an unproven team that hasn't been around very long in its current configuration. Your ranking isn't that great (at the very least it is not good enough to get you into a top national, arguably international, level tournament). And you really don't have much of a resume at this point (to my knowledge you haven't won any recent national level tournaments) that you could use to leverage your way in. And on top of all of that, you're competing against teams with years of top level play on their respective resumes.

If you were a higher ranked team, you'd have an argument that the seeding process utilized by the Texans in setting the brackets for their tournament was flawed, you aren't, so you really don't. If you had a better resume (several national level tournament wins, undefeated in Classic League, or something along those lines) you'd have a solid argument that you were wronged, you don't have those wins so you really don't have that argument.

I understand your frustration, but if you are going to play on a newly formed team, it's something everyone has to deal with and its a risk you knowingly take. Bitching about it on an internet forum certainly isn't going to help your cause any.

All that said, I do wish you luck and think you deserve the opportunity to attempt to play your way in. Don't think you'll necessarily make it, but I thin it'll be good for you to actually see where you stand relative to the other teams in your age bracket in a tournament that actually means something.

You make some good points, dragonstryker. Couple of thing sneed clarifying though:

1. Our current gotsoccer rankings compare favorably (meaning equal to or greater than) the top half of the current list of accepted u16 teams for Texans FF. With that in mind, I don't really get what you mean by 'not having a high enough ranking'.

2. I can also understand the mindset of scheduling scrimmages with us by the PA and certainly the DA teams. But, wouldn't it have been more professional for these teams to say, "sorry, no room in schedule, or, "we see no need".

3. It was never implied on my part that we are even 'ready' or 'able' to compete successfully with DA teams. U15 PA's would probably be a better fit..but even that is speculation.

In hindsight, we should have played Plano instead of the Ayses SC tournament. Probably would have had a better chance to build the resume.

But again, our gs rankings are better than most of the current list of accepted teams. (7th..how high do we need to be just for the chance to qualify? If teams with similar or lower rankings are allowed to play for a DC spot, why shouldn't we?) And since we were told from the outset that we would "qualify if we won our bracket"...then yeah, I'm going to bitch.

I don't know what the team will do or how it will work. But personally, I'm not spending the several hundred bucks to go over and play 2nd and 3rd tier teams again.

Now, I can understand we're new. But all this bs should have been explained instead of creating bad blood.

I don't really get the 'peacocking' comment. I could say the very same thing about many of you. There's an elitist attitude from many of you that oozes from your pores.

The mindset seems to be "that if you aren't pa or d1 CL, then you're crap". I'm not saying d1 cl isn't highly competitive or even has high level players.

But this, 'anti-indy' team bias only stokes the fire that much more. I'll admit that ETP hasn't one enough big titles/big games, but how are we ever going to get the chance?

Finally, I'll say this. My son is actually a U15. So, playing up against the best possible U16 club teams (as well as playing against adults) My point is that I don't equate my son's ability as a player strictly based on team success or pedigree.

Unlike the majority of parent posters on this forum.

Playing against D1 teams (or comparable) that are older is equivalent to or greater than playing PA or D1 CL in his own age group. Or at least the closest thing I can replicate living where I do.

So, hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from.

And if you don't I ask that you forgive me for not being more lucid in my comminique...

Laimpart,

Did the texans tell you, ETX was not going to be in the DC qualifying bracket, or are you just speculating?(Sorry if it is earlier in this long thread and I missed it)

love_your_refs wrote:Laimpart,

Did the texans tell you, ETX was not going to be in the DC qualifying bracket, or are you just speculating?(Sorry if it is earlier in this long thread and I missed it)

Not yet. But it sure is looking that way.

They've put off 'clarifying' until next week.

Laimport wrote:
You make some good points, dragonstryker. Couple of thing sneed clarifying though:

1. Our current gotsoccer rankings compare favorably (meaning equal to or greater than) the top half of the current list of accepted u16 teams for Texans FF. With that in mind, I don't really get what you mean by 'not having a high enough ranking'.

Without knowing exactly how those teams qualified, the ranking is really secondary. A team could be theorectically unranked but if they are in 1st place in CL, they are in and your theory about rankings is meaningless in that context. So you really need the context of how the other teams got in before you start to compare your ranking to theirs in an effort to make a case as to why an invite should be extended to your team.

Laimport wrote:2. I can also understand the mindset of scheduling scrimmages with us by the PA and certainly the DA teams. But, wouldn't it have been more professional for these teams to say, "sorry, no room in schedule, or, "we see no need".

A good friend of mine made this comparison for me when I was younger and was just learning about time management. Imaging a gentleman running a major division for a large bank. He's going to get calls all the time from guys with businesses that are simply too small in scope for him to mess with. If he takes the time to call every one of them back, he's never going to get any work done. It's not unprofessional if the person calling you is taking a flier. What's unprofessional is bothering someone that more than likely isn't interested in what you have to sell. Think along those lines

Laimport wrote:3. It was never implied on my part that we are even 'ready' or 'able' to compete successfully with DA teams. U15 PA's would probably be a better fit..but even that is speculation.

I think we all have a pretty clear grasp of the disdain you hold for PA/DA. No comment on your part is really necessary to further that view.

Laimport wrote:In hindsight, we should have played Plano instead of the Ayses SC tournament. Probably would have had a better chance to build the resume.

In hindsight you probably also should have played the Disney Qualifier. Winning that tournament would have no only got you into the Disney Showcase in one of the top brackets, it would have also looked fantastic on a resume designed to get you an invite to the Dallas Cup.

Laimport wrote:But again, our gs rankings are better than most of the current list of accepted teams. (7th..how high do we need to be just for the chance to qualify? If teams with similar or lower rankings are allowed to play for a DC spot, why shouldn't we?) And since we were told from the outset that we would "qualify if we won our bracket"...then yeah, I'm going to bitch.

Again, without the context under which those teams got in, their ranking is largely meaningless. And since rankings are the talk, there are plenty of teams out there that play nothing but second rate tournaments and amass very respectable point totals. That doesn't mean they are top teams, it means they are good at amassing points under Gotsoccer's ranking scheme.

Laimport wrote:I don't know what the team will do or how it will work. But personally, I'm not spending the several hundred bucks to go over and play 2nd and 3rd tier teams again.

Ok

Laimport wrote:Now, I can understand we're new. But all this bs should have been explained instead of creating bad blood.

Woudldn't disagree with that comment. You should have been told up front that your team didn't have the resume to get into the qualification bracket, though in the Texans defense, if they didn't know who was going to sign up, they can't rightly say who is in/out until all applications are received.

Laimport wrote:I don't really get the 'peacocking' comment. I could say the very same thing about many of you. There's an elitist attitude from many of you that oozes from your pores.

The mindset seems to be "that if you aren't pa or d1 CL, then you're crap". I'm not saying d1 cl isn't highly competitive or even has high level players.

But this, 'anti-indy' team bias only stokes the fire that much more. I'll admit that ETP hasn't one enough big titles/big games, but how are we ever going to get the chance?

This is the exact reason I hope my son's team never scrimmages a team such as yours. This "chip on your shoulder" attitude you seem to have is very off-putting and there is simply no way it doesn't rub off on the kid's on your son's team. That means they'd come in with "something to prove" and try to prove it during a scrimmage when the focus shoudl be on instruction not competition. And that is how kids get injured during a meaningless game.

For the record, I never said anything derogatory about Indy teams. My son started on an Indy team and I still follow their progress (they are largely intact from the beginning and are currently playing in CL D2 after forming late and starting in Arlington). Someone being open and honest in their assessment of your son's team isn't anti-Indy, it's just an open and honest assessment. I'm sorry you can't handle that without resorting to throwing insults at anyone that doesn't agree with you or the greatness of your son's team.

Laimport wrote:Finally, I'll say this. My son is actually a U15. So, playing up against the best possible U16 club teams (as well as playing against adults) My point is that I don't equate my son's ability as a player strictly based on team success or pedigree.

Congrats. I know several u5's playing u7 presently. Do I get a prize too? Is there a purpose to this comment other than further "peacocking" on your part? It doesn't seem to add anything to the discussion here other than as an attempt to boost your ego.

I would add that you sure seem to place, at the very least, some meaningful level of importance on it, otherwise this whole thread seems immaterial. So either you find it important enough to start and continue a very long thread on the subject, or it's not important and this thread is simply a waste of everyone's time. Which is it?

Laimport wrote:Unlike the majority of parent posters on this forum.

Is there really any reason to make a derogatory comment regarding other parents?

Laimport wrote:Playing against D1 teams (or comparable) that are older is equivalent to or greater than playing PA or D1 CL in his own age group. Or at least the closest thing I can replicate living where I do.

It may or may not be. Without knowing the team's in question, I don't think that's a statement that can be factually made.

Laimport wrote:So, hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from.

And if you don't I ask that you forgive me for not being more lucid in my comminique...

I understand very clearly where you are coming from though your comments don't really change any of my opinions.

Your team is new. It has a limited track record. It has virtually no track record in high level tournaments. And it isn't playing in a high profile league (Classic, Premier, etc). I understand your dissatisfaction with not getting a chance to qualify for the Dallas Cup, but I don't think you have a lot to base that dissatisfaction on when you really get down to it.

You still aren't getting the basic premise of my key point, dragonstryker.

I'm not arguing with the newness or perhaps even the unproven track record.

Again, we were told that we would be in the qualifying bracket and IF we won (doubtful, long shot, God forbid, whatever description you want to use)then we would get an automatic invite.

So, even if you are right in your 'assessment', then if nothing else, we are entitled to back out due to breach of contract/terms of sale.

Sorry, but your business analogy doesn't wash. You act as if there are thousands of pissant 'club' teams wanting to take a shot at a PA or DA team. I seriously doubt those coaches are that inundated with calls and emails...sorry that just doesn't fly buddy.

Further, I have no disdain for PA or DA teams. That's something you brilliantly came up with on your own. I just don't worship at the altar where everyone assumes it's better. I don't have time to cut and past several blogs and links to articles pointing out the same 'issues' with DA. Google 'the soccer purist'. Written by a DOC at a large DA club. Even he takes potshots at his own club...albeit anonymously.

I will say that at least DA is a step in the right direction. But I'll digress on that subject..

I'll have to take your word on the CL teams' gs rankings being largely 'meaningless'. In which case, I'd say then why bother? Conversely, ETP is at another disadvantage because the team does not officially play in a sanctioned league like CL. So, I guess it works both ways.

So maybe instead of Texans creating another stream of revenue under false pretenses, maybe they should just limit the DC invitations to what they were before? Top CL teams.

No indies need apply....

"I know plenty of U5's playing U7"..."Do I get a prize too" c'mon, man you're better than that, aren't you? What are you, 12? besides, you're the one that brought your "d1 CL kid into it"...now who's peacocking?

I'm sure your view was the same as mine...needed for context in making a relevant point.

Now, I'll be the bigger man and admit that I may have been premature on gauging the team's value initially. But you act like I'm constantly bragging about ETP. You must be lingering on a handful (actually fewer) posts I made, what, in August?

Other than this thread, I haven't even mentioned ETP. Nor I think has anyone else.

You disagree with many of my views? great. It would be boring otherwise.

But, you sir are the one resorting to making personal insults.

If someone tells you, "come play in my tournament. if you win, you get an invite to DC" and then starts crawfishing on the deal, then yeah, I have a problem with that.

You say we don't deserve a shot. Fine. Your opinion. But neither do more than half of the teams on the 'accepted list' do either.

Either way, give us our money back and we call it even.

Actually, I'd love to see you get a shot. Deserved or not, I am a firm believer in a meritocratic process and that means qualifiers open to everyone.

I just think the argument you're making is fundamentally flawed.

Fair enough. And I know you aren't the only one that feels that way.

I hope we get a shot too.

Happy Halloween...

I do agree if you want your money back you should get it
However.....

Ok, I am only going to put facts here (or as close as I can come to them)
When saying "indies get no respect", please see Irving Elite U12 (when they started kicking Plano/Arlington ace) all the way thru U15 (last year)
They won big tourneys, went to Disney, California, played Premier League, etc, etc , etc
Why?
They didn't look for little tournaments with points
They played the big boys not dodging Plano Labor Day or any other tournament and kicked everyone's ace
Fair and Square
Don't beg big boy teams to scrimmage you
Get in the tournaments they get in

What you SHOULD do is stay in this tourney and WIN whatever bracket you are in
Then go to San Diego at Thanksgiving for Surf Cup 2 (I know the main one is in July)
Or FCD Bobby Rhine here at Thanksgiving
Go to Vegas in March
Go to Surf Cup in July in San Diego
Go to Arizona (I forget when that is)
Then this time next year tell us about which of these tournaments you won and the Texans will be begging you to play Dallas Cup 2014 which is truly the more important one for prestige/recruiting as the boys will be juniors then

Also, I looked at your gotsoccer page and most of us agree the points thing is whacked

So, going back to Nov 2011 I ONLY took into account the games you played against a D1, D2 or D3 team (since there are NO classic league games to go on)

Win 2-1 Andro Gold D2 9th relegated
Win 5-0 FCD Silver D2 7th
in this tourney you also lost to Liverpool 98 2-1 but I won't mention that

Tied TFC 0-0 D2 6th
Tied Barca 0-0 D3 3rd
Tied Real GP 1-1 D3 5th

Lost Barca 1-0 D3 3rd

Win DTR South 2-0 D2 10th relegated
Lost Solar Gold 2-0 D2 5th
Lost FCD Gold 4-1 D1 10th relegated

Then July 2012 comes so new teams

Win Solar Red 1-0 currently D1 10th
this is the game you always point to
same tourney though tied Tx Lightning 2-2 who is not doing good in arlington i believe

Win Solar Gold 3-0 currently D2 8th
Win FCD Silver 2-1 currently D2 9th
Win TFC Blue 1-0 currently D2 1st

So, at the time you played them you are:
1 win 1 loss against D1
6 wins 1 loss 1 tie against D2
0 wins 2 losses 1 tie against D3

You can handle D2 but not D3?

Again, stay in this one and win whatever bracket you are in, get in the Bobby Rhine Tournament at Thanksgiving or go to San Diego
Win and throw it in everyones face here

HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!

I'm not for or against anyone here, but I've seen teams play better teams and win, and worse teams and lose.
Also, some of the mentioned tournaments aren't particularly cheap, plus travel to these locations. So that could be an issue (of course I don't know the team or even anything about the age group, 96's are my speed )

I do hope you get the chance to qualify for Dallas Cup however, as that is what it sound like you paid for. But if you haven't gotten any information back, how do you know if you're not in the top bracket?

And finally, has anyone ever used the face ?

mspan02 wrote:I do agree if you want your money back you should get it
However.....

Ok, I am only going to put facts here (or as close as I can come to them)
When saying "indies get no respect", please see Irving Elite U12 (when they started kicking Plano/Arlington ace) all the way thru U15 (last year)
They won big tourneys, went to Disney, California, played Premier League, etc, etc , etc
Why?
They didn't look for little tournaments with points
They played the big boys not dodging Plano Labor Day or any other tournament and kicked everyone's ace
Fair and Square
Don't beg big boy teams to scrimmage you
Get in the tournaments they get in

What you SHOULD do is stay in this tourney and WIN whatever bracket you are in
Then go to San Diego at Thanksgiving for Surf Cup 2 (I know the main one is in July)
Or FCD Bobby Rhine here at Thanksgiving
Go to Vegas in March
Go to Surf Cup in July in San Diego
Go to Arizona (I forget when that is)
Then this time next year tell us about which of these tournaments you won and the Texans will be begging you to play Dallas Cup 2014 which is truly the more important one for prestige/recruiting as the boys will be juniors then

Also, I looked at your gotsoccer page and most of us agree the points thing is whacked

So, going back to Nov 2011 I ONLY took into account the games you played against a D1, D2 or D3 team (since there are NO classic league games to go on)

Win 2-1 Andro Gold D2 9th relegated
Win 5-0 FCD Silver D2 7th
in this tourney you also lost to Liverpool 98 2-1 but I won't mention that

Tied TFC 0-0 D2 6th
Tied Barca 0-0 D3 3rd
Tied Real GP 1-1 D3 5th

Lost Barca 1-0 D3 3rd

Win DTR South 2-0 D2 10th relegated
Lost Solar Gold 2-0 D2 5th
Lost FCD Gold 4-1 D1 10th relegated

Then July 2012 comes so new teams

Win Solar Red 1-0 currently D1 10th
this is the game you always point to
same tourney though tied Tx Lightning 2-2 who is not doing good in arlington i believe

Win Solar Gold 3-0 currently D2 8th
Win FCD Silver 2-1 currently D2 9th
Win TFC Blue 1-0 currently D2 1st

So, at the time you played them you are:
1 win 1 loss against D1
6 wins 1 loss 1 tie against D2
0 wins 2 losses 1 tie against D3

You can handle D2 but not D3?

Again, stay in this one and win whatever bracket you are in, get in the Bobby Rhine Tournament at Thanksgiving or go to San Diego
Win and throw it in everyones face here

Okay, first, 'points' don't and shouldn't be carried over from year to year. Rosters change you know!

Second Lightning Classic was played with 2 field subs. Yet, we still managed to beat Solar.

Third, I commend you for putting together a good case. Really, I'm being sincere.

Fouth, and finally, we were told that we would play in qualifying bracket and if we were fortunate enough to win, then we'd get a DC invite.

At this point, I'm not even concerned about DC, I just want the eopportunity to play the top (reputed) CL teams.

I'm not in a position to decide where we should and shouldn't play tournament wise.

So, you are saying that Surf Cup is easier to get into than a qualifying bracket at Texans? Seriously?

To be pragmatic, I don't think Surf Cup is in our budget. Even if it was, why go across the country instead of playing the best teams here?

Flawed logic.

Gatorz wrote:

love_your_refs wrote:

Laimport wrote:However one may feel about the validity or the wrongdoing/misrepresentation regarding the Texans and DC, it is safe to say that the Texans have some very unhappy customers.

With all the other issues they have, this certainly doesn't bode well for business.

I'm even more pessimistic than futbolfiend on the DA. With perhaps a handful of exceptions, it's just business as usual for them.

From what I have seen so far, clubs do make an attempt to conform to USSF ratings...here are my examples of that happening. Both of the following teams were dinged for style of play in last years DA evals. This year:

- Andromeda and Classic Elite don't pack it in to try to earn ties, even though they are often out gunned by the other guys as far as number of top players.
- Hassan has taken a back seat in coaching the DA team, and they seem to be trying more possession.

For the folks that were already conforming to USSF DA standards to a large degree before DA. I think there is evidence of development focus as well:
-Solar is more proud of placing all of its players in college than any results from last year.
-FCDallas is not afraid to take less polished super athlete, that might turn pro and develope him into a soccer player, over a perhaps more polished soccer player, that might not have the elite of the elite athleticism to go pro, but can help them win today.

Nothing is perfect, but I see DA system as better than before.

What you said there at the end is interesting as it relates to all the talk about development around here on this forum. The complaint is usually that teams overlook the smaller, more skilled player in favor of the atheletic, powerful fast players. You assert that FCD intentionally takes the super athlete that is less polished in terms of soccer ability than the polished player that is not the elite athlete. I have always thought that is the way to go for a team, ( ie take the best athletes and turn them into players). But, this also flies in the face of the Barcelona model of taking great players at a young age, such as the messi's ineista's of the world.

Did I read that correctly?

Maybe I didn't express myself well, Messi and everyone on Barcelona are amazing atheletes...And if barcelona got them at a very young age then they were definitely not polished players at that time. I am saying FC Dallas might take a quicker(and maybe bigger and stronger too) player, over a more experienced player(with less athletic ability)...IE they will bet more on potential, this indicates to me they are interested in player development.

I say it is the other way around. With FCD, they pick soccer players first, "athletes" second...

Again, too many assume the collective is more important (at youth level) than the individual parts.

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Laimport - the DA (and, i believe PA) have specific rules against playing any games against outside competition once the season starts. I doubt anyone is seriously concerned about loss of reputation over a friendly. However, it is much safer to play intra club friendlies where physicality and style of play can be controlled versus an unknown team with an unknown style.

eredivisie wrote:

Laimport wrote:

my2cents wrote:You are probably asking the wrong clubs. The big clubs have plenty of teams in house to scrimmage. They can go up an age or PA or DA if they want a tough one. Go down a bracket or age to work on certain things etc. They have no need to go outside the club. There is no upside for them, only for you, the competition. You need to contact small clubs and other indies.

Well, if these PA and DA teams are really about development, both of their teams and players, then it would be in their best interests to play ETP. Now, I perfectly understand that they may not want to disrupt or jeopardize their league schedules...but there are plenty of opportunities to play friendlies on the margins of the season.

So, I'm not buying that excuse. Kids at this age need both 'training' games as well as those important 'sharpening' games that stretch them technically and tactically. As for soliciting games from lower level or smaller clubs, well, there aren't that many out there (with the rankings)that we haven't played in tournaments.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we could outplay or even beat the (97) PA teams. (Especially FCD...I've seen them play...truly a talented group.) I personally think 3 of the 4 U16 DA teams would be a stretch.

That said, we haven't thus far been given the courtesy of a reply from those teams.

There's a fine line between 'reasons' and excuses.

I would think the PA and top CL teams would welcome the opportunity to play against someone outside their leagues anyway. (Since they are playing each other at least twice a season...more in some cases.)

"Nothing to gain and too much to lose" is my guess.

Futbolfiend's point was not mired in class warfare. Simply that our team and families (not to mention our coaches) make huge sacrifices in order to play. Hell, even to train for that matter.

More importantly, these types of "practices" do not advance the game in any way and even hurts the players.

Laimport - the DA (and, i believe PA) have specific rules against playing any games against outside competition once the season starts. I doubt anyone is seriously concerned about loss of reputation over a friendly. However, it is much safer to play intra club friendlies where physicality and style of play can be controlled versus an unknown team with an unknown style.

For the most part, I can see it from their point of view. Got to protect your investment.

By the way...love the Dutch league.

Well, Texans have clearly stated that the top 16 ranked teams will play in qualifying bracket.

Including the PA teams, ETP is in the top 8 based on that criteria.

So, it looks like we will get our shot.

Laimport wrote:Well, Texans have clearly stated that the top 16 ranked teams will play in qualifying bracket.

Including the PA teams, ETP is in the top 8 based on that criteria.

So, it looks like we will get our shot.

I write of the wish that comes true--
for some reason,
a terrifying concept.


By James M. Cain

better known as..be careful what you wish for...it may come true.

All you can ask for is the opportunity... what you make of it becomes your burden. We will see how it shakes out, if we compete great if we get mauled then I'll be here on Monday to absorb the slings and arrows

Laimport wrote:Well, Texans have clearly stated that the top 16 ranked teams will play in qualifying bracket.

Including the PA teams, ETP is in the top 8 based on that criteria.

So, it looks like we will get our shot.

Top 16 teams based on what ranking? GotSoccer?