98 Texans Fall Festival

Looks like 32 teams have been accepted. 16 to Red division, and 16 to White division?

Anybody want to take a guess on the 16 seeds for the Red division? I would guess:

1 FC Dallas PA
2 Solar PA
3 Dallas Texans PA
4 Downtown SC (California)
5 Dallas Tigres
6 Solar 98
7 Real Madrid
8 DFW Tejanos
9 Dallas Pumas
10 KICKS
11 FC Dallas WTX
12 AYSES Gold
13 Dallas Texans 98
14 OFC (Oklahoma)
15 Ft Worth White
16 TFC Royal

Thoughts? Comments?

where did you see there will be a red and white division? im just curious thats why i ask seeng that now tis tourney is a DC qualifier seems like everybody would be going for the GOLD!

The front page of the Texans website talks about a "Red Division" of the top 16 seeded teams.

Thus, with 16 teams in Red, the other 16 must be in a White Division.

Not to mention that if all 32 teams were in 1 division, there would be no way "eliminate" that many teams over a three-day tournament. The maximum number of games (per team) that could be played in these three days is 5. With only semifinals and finals in bracket play, only 4 teams advance out of pool play. Looks to me like there can only be 16 teams in Red...4 brackets of 4 teams, with each bracket winner advancing to the semis.

98Bsoccer wrote:Looks like 32 teams have been accepted. 16 to Red division, and 16 to White division?

Anybody want to take a guess on the 16 seeds for the Red division? I would guess:

1 FC Dallas PA
2 Solar PA
3 Dallas Texans PA
4 Downtown SC (California)
5 Dallas Tigres
6 Solar 98
7 Real Madrid
8 DFW Tejanos
9 Dallas Pumas
10 KICKS
11 FC Dallas WTX
12 AYSES Gold
13 Dallas Texans 98
14 OFC (Oklahoma)
15 Ft Worth White
16 TFC Royal

Thoughts? Comments?

I am not sure you can rank FC Dallas PA #1 when the Texans and Solar finished higher last year. Texans also won Nationals at the 98 age group.

I would use Region III ranking for all except the NPL teams. For NPL would say Texans, Solar then FCD get 1,2,3 seed then everyone else is seeded based on Region III

1. Texans PA
2. Solar PA
3. FC Dallas PA
4. Solar Chelsea 98
5. Dallas Pumas
6. DFW Tejanos
7. Kicks FC
8. Ayses Soccer Club
9. FC Dallas WTX
10. Dallas Texans 98
11. Dallas Tigres
12. Fort Worth FC
13. OFC 98
14. Real Madrid
15. FC Hawks
16. West Side Alliance (moved them up over 4 teams since they are ranked 5th in OK)

Here is what I think the RED bracket will look like and I included Region III rank for all non NPL teams

Region III
Texans PA
AYSES Soccer Club 22
FC Dallas WTX 23
West Side Alliance 88

Solar PA
Kicks FC 17
Dallas Texans 24
FC Hawks 42

FC Dallas PA
DFW Tejanos 15
DALLAS TIGRES ACADEMY 25
Real Madrid 38

Solar Chelsea 4
Dallas Pumas Premier FC 11
Fort Worth FC 27
Oklahoma Football Club 33

The following would play in WHITE...

Hurst United FC 48
Liverpool FC America 62
Dallas Texans 73
TFC 74
GSA 94
FC Dallas Youth 138
Lake Highlands United 159
High Plains Drifters 171
santos laguna sc98 210
Real GP 212
Statik Soccer Club 254
TSC Texans 306
Twisters United '98 331
Amarillo Lightning SC 390
NC Chivas USA 402
SBY Soccer Association 402
Alamo City YSO None
River Trinity CF none

Not sure you're going off of the up to date "accepted" list. You left off Downtown SC from California. I would think they are placed in Red...bumping somebody out of red.

98Bsoccer wrote:Not sure you're going off of the up to date "accepted" list. You left off Downtown SC from California. I would think they are placed in Red...bumping somebody out of red.

You are correct... they added that team today. Now they have 33 teams accepted. It does change things up a bit. If you use national ranking FC Hawks make it in to RED and TFC Royal is left out even though TFC is in 2nd place in D2 and Hawks is in 4th place in D3.

Using National Rankings:

Dallas Texans PA
Kicks FC
AYSES Soccer Club
FC Hawks

Solar PA
DFW Tejanos
FC Dallas WTX
Real Madrid

FC Dallas PA
Dallas Pumas Premier FC
Dallas Texans
Oklahoma Football Club

Solar Chelsea
Downtown SC
DALLAS TIGRES ACADEMY
Fort Worth FC

Using Classic ranking:

Dallas Texans PA
Solar Chelsea
AYSES Soccer Club
Fort Worth FC

Solar PA
DFW Tejanos
Dallas Pumas Premier FC
TFC

FC Dallas PA
Real Madrid
Kicks FC
Oklahoma Football Club

DALLAS TIGRES ACADEMY
Downtown SC
Dallas Texans
FC Dallas WTX

I think basing seeding on CL rankings isn't correct.

I would think state and regional rankings take precedence.

After all, how else can they accurately seed nonNTX teams?

I'm not taking anything away from CL. It's a tough, competitive league.

And gs rankings can be skewed.

But you have to start somewhere.

Laimport wrote:I think basing seeding on CL rankings isn't correct.

I would think state and regional rankings take precedence.

After all, how else can they accurately seed nonNTX teams?

I'm not taking anything away from CL. It's a tough, competitive league.

And gs rankings can be skewed.

But you have to start somewhere.

maybe for all non NTX teams you take into account GS National Rankings but for all NTX teams you base them on CL standings. If not you have the Hawks a 4th place DIII team taking the spot that should go to TFC Royal who is in 2nd in DII. 12th place team vs. 24th place team.

rqps wrote:

Laimport wrote:I think basing seeding on CL rankings isn't correct.

I would think state and regional rankings take precedence.

After all, how else can they accurately seed nonNTX teams?

I'm not taking anything away from CL. It's a tough, competitive league.

And gs rankings can be skewed.

But you have to start somewhere.

maybe for all non NTX teams you take into account GS National Rankings but for all NTX teams you base them on CL standings. If not you have the Hawks a 4th place DIII team taking the spot that should go to TFC Royal who is in 2nd in DII. 12th place team vs. 24th place team.

Sorry to disagree. But, gs rankings take into account ALL competitions. Not just CL.

If a D3 team has a higher ranking than a D1 or D2 team, then that should tell you something.

Namely that CL rankings are not the alpha and omega of calculating a team's relative worth.

A team could be at the top of PL West standings yet fighting relegation in D1 CL.

Plus, you have to take into account teams with new or depleted rosters.

Sorry, just not that cut and dry.

The problem with CL rankings or CL placement is that it is based on the previous year.

As we all know, the DFW soccer landscape is a game of musical chairs.

promotion/relegation in this case skews the rankings.

In other words, a team is 'locked' into whatever division they were promoted to or relegated from.

It's possible for a new team to be formed, win some point heavy tournaments and therefore achieve higher NTX and region 3 rankings.

An indy team also doesn't have the benefit of being able to pick up points through CL play.

A D3 CL team that somehow wins (however unlikely) say PLD tournament (gold)can pick up quite a few state and regional points.

Again, not taking anything away from CL.

But facts are facts.

Laimport wrote:

rqps wrote:

Laimport wrote:I think basing seeding on CL rankings isn't correct.

I would think state and regional rankings take precedence.

After all, how else can they accurately seed nonNTX teams?

I'm not taking anything away from CL. It's a tough, competitive league.

And gs rankings can be skewed.

But you have to start somewhere.

maybe for all non NTX teams you take into account GS National Rankings but for all NTX teams you base them on CL standings. If not you have the Hawks a 4th place DIII team taking the spot that should go to TFC Royal who is in 2nd in DII. 12th place team vs. 24th place team.

Sorry to disagree. But, gs rankings take into account ALL competitions. Not just CL.

If a D3 team has a higher ranking than a D1 or D2 team, then that should tell you something.

Namely that CL rankings are not the alpha and omega of calculating a team's relative worth.

A team could be at the top of PL West standings yet fighting relegation in D1 CL.

Plus, you have to take into account teams with new or depleted rosters.

Sorry, just not that cut and dry.

GS ranking does not take into account current CL standings. It only awards points once the season is complete. The season will be complete by the time the fall festival takes place but I am not certain how quickly they will award points. In most cases GS and current CL standings is not making a difference but for TFC Royal making the RED bracket.

I agree that it is not cut and dry so hopefully they use more than GS/CL standings... maybe a combination of the two. I would hate to see a team that deserves to make the RED bracket not make it due to rankings that may be skewed to begin with. I am sure you of all people can understand that as your team is also angling to enter the RED bracket in the 97 age group.

I'm not sure that it has to be EITHER/OR Classic League rankings or Got Soccer rankings. I think a combination of both should be used. A combination of the two is what I based my originial post on that started this thread.

Some of the CL Division 1 teams don't have very good Got Soccer rankings. Likewise, there are some non-CL Division 1 teams (in D2 or D3) that have very good Got Soccer rankings.

There are some D2 teams that are better than D1 teams. There are also some D3 teams better than D2 teams.

I think that ALL of the information is considered...mainly for the CL D1 teams and the top half of CL D2 teams...along with the best non-NTX teams...and the best teams are seeded into and ranked for the Red Division. IMO, which really means nothing, you can't use ONLY CL rankings (teams slotted from previous year's results...or a couple of year's worth of results) OR Got Soccer rankings (teams in the metro area are able to play in more tournaments by not having to travel).

Take both into consideration.

Laimport wrote:The problem with CL rankings or CL placement is that it is based on the previous year.

GS rankings are also from last year. If you look at the FC Hawks current form based on 2012 points they only have 1361, and 600 of those points are based on them defeating two teams. 1 that no longer exists FC Dallas, relegated from D1 and folded, and there defeat of Guameru in DL D3 last season.

98Bsoccer wrote:I'm not sure that it has to be EITHER/OR Classic League rankings or Got Soccer rankings. I think a combination of both should be used. A combination of the two is what I based my originial post on that started this thread.

Some of the CL Division 1 teams don't have very good Got Soccer rankings. Likewise, there are some non-CL Division 1 teams (in D2 or D3) that have very good Got Soccer rankings.

There are some D2 teams that are better than D1 teams. There are also some D3 teams better than D2 teams.

I think that ALL of the information is considered...mainly for the CL D1 teams and the top half of CL D2 teams...along with the best non-NTX teams...and the best teams are seeded into and ranked for the Red Division. IMO, which really means nothing, you can't use ONLY CL rankings (teams slotted from previous year's results...or a couple of year's worth of results) OR Got Soccer rankings (teams in the metro area are able to play in more tournaments by not having to travel).

Take both into consideration.

I agree that both should be considered

I use to think gotsoccer rankings were a joke! there are teams who play BS tourneys with no competition to rack up points thats why you see some PPL or APL teams and even some D3 teams that are ranked higher then teams that they could never beat or have aleady been skinned alive by? but seeing that PA has totally destroyed alot of classic league D1/D2 teams its hard to say who deserves to be where anymore?

I'm still seeing too much emphasis on CL standings. CL standings are not the primary (or only) indicator of quality.

You have to look at a team's entire body of work.

Even Man City and Barca lose to teams they shouldn't lose to on paper.

The last 2 PLD tournament brackets were skewed. There was a huge overlap between 'gold' and silver teams. Mainly due to the out-of-state teams (that I had first hand knowledge of.)

Sorry, but being ranked #2 in Kansas doesn't carry the same weight as say #4 in NTX.

omega striker wrote:I use to think gotsoccer rankings were a joke! there are teams who play BS tourneys with no competition to rack up points thats why you see some PPL or APL teams and even some D3 teams that are ranked higher then teams that they could never beat or have aleady been skinned alive by? but seeing that PA has totally destroyed alot of classic league D1/D2 teams its hard to say who deserves to be where anymore?

I don't know the correct answer but I do know this guy gets it. CL 10 years ago is one thing but today the difference between the middle 20 teams is so small theres no real way to say who would beat whom.

One of you keeps pointing out how TFC will get left out and they are in 2nd place in D2 yet you fail to take into account they've only got one game left whereas Guameru has 3, FWFC has 2 and HUFC has 1. Depending on how the final few games fall out all three could jump TFC who would then be in 5th place. (in fact I am sure Guameru will jump them and probably FWFC).

As for gotsoccer. Yes it was pointed out the points are accumulated mostly over the prior year but that is true for everyone. It could just as easily be pointed out that a team who played in minor tournaments would easily jump in the rankings over the past few months alone. (please see Tomahawks, Texas-D3 and ranked 13 ntx, 26 region 3). They aren't that good and rolled through a tournament this summer playing mostly 99's but still collected 2384 points as champions.

Again I don't know the correct answer because you can stroke the data anyway you want to fit your preference but there are too many that still fall back to the old they are a club team so they must be good routine. Kind of funny.

98 Texans Fall Festival "accepted list" now up to 38 teams.

What is the best way to divide this? Red bracket with 16 teams, White 1 bracket with 14 teams, and White 2 bracket with 8 teams??

For the Red bracket...I would think these 14 teams are locks to be placed (in no particular order):

FCD PA
Solar PA
Texans PA
Downtown SC
Tigres
Solar
Real Madrid
Tejanos
Pumas
KICKS
FCD WTX
AYSES
Texans
OFC

If correct, that would only leaves 2 spots for the following teams:

Ft Worth White
TFC Royal
Hurst
Guameru
High Plains Drifters
FC Hawks
West Side Alliance

There would be some good teams left out in this scenario.

Has anybody heard anything about when the brackets are going to be out?

98Bsoccer is this just your opinion concerning the 14 "locks" or do you have some "insider" information??? If it is your opinion, what do you base it on?

Certainly no insider information. Nothing more than my personal opinions based on CL standings, combined with Got Soccer rankings, and overall team history. Just trying to get talk going and see other opinions in the 98 age group.