USSF SCOUTING

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/06/09/16/34/140609-academy-u1314-showcase-preview

“It’s a huge scouting opportunity, like all our showcases,” Lepore said. “We have 14 scouts coming in to help us cover the U-13/14 event, so we will be at every game. At this point of the season, we have a list of talents who were identified and tracked throughout the year that we can track even more closely and also look for any new talents for training centers. We go into the Showcase knowing the clubs and the player pool really well. The most talented players have all migrated to the Academy clubs – 90 percent of the players currently on the 2000 depth chart come from Academy clubs, so there are very few players who we will not be able to scout at this culminating event. This will be very helpful as we evaluate players and make difficult selections for the U-14 Boys’ National Team 48-player camp in August.”

"the most talented players have all migrated to the academy clubs".....

BS! BS! BS!

Until every state in the country, every soccer market, etc. has it's own DA club... and the players/parents don't pay a dime..and they bring players into residency..then they will NEVER capture ALL the talent!

And even that is a stretch because that's assuming that they even 'can' identify the best players!

What they really need to do is take the power away from the clubs and form/run their own regional/national league.

From what I've seen the "training center" program they run isn't nearly as thorough as it should be.

[quote="Laimport"]"the most talented players have all migrated to the academy clubs".....

BS! BS! BS!

Until every state in the country, every soccer market, etc. has it's own DA club... and the players/parents don't pay a dime..and they bring players into residency..then they will NEVER capture ALL the talent!

And even that is a stretch because that's assuming that they even 'can' identify the best players!

What they really need to do is take the power away from the clubs and form/run their own regional/national league.

From what I've seen the "training center" program they run isn't nearly as thorough as it should be.
/quote]
I can agree with most of that!

Laimport wrote:"the most talented players have all migrated to the academy clubs".....

BS! BS! BS!

Until every state in the country, every soccer market, etc. has it's own DA club... and the players/parents don't pay a dime..and they bring players into residency..then they will NEVER capture ALL the talent!

And even that is a stretch because that's assuming that they even 'can' identify the best players!

What they really need to do is take the power away from the clubs and form/run their own regional/national league.

From what I've seen the "training center" program they run isn't nearly as thorough as it should be.

So from your point of view, what is the percentage? Don't disagree with your assertions, but it is the system and if ODP works for the underserved areas, then what is the percentage of players being scouted appropriately through DA and ODP? And while I agree that there are diamonds in the rough and quality players outside the organized system; I haven't heard of any substantive, realistic and sufficient alternatives.

GO had mentioned a while back that until the Pro clubs start developing players to become Pros and not college students, we are doomed to the current repetitive cycle of mediocrity. I totally agree.

Also, he stated that 98% of the kids playing DA don't belong there. Probably also a very true statement that parents don't want to accept.

Why not reduce the kids down to 1 team per region, per age group from the start of DA at U14. Everyone else plays CL or similar to their region.

finish1 wrote:GO had mentioned a while back that until the Pro clubs start developing players to become Pros and not college students, we are doomed to the current repetitive cycle of mediocrity. I totally agree.

Also, he stated that 98% of the kids playing DA don't belong there. Probably also a very true statement that parents don't want to accept.

Why not reduce the kids down to 1 team per region, per age group from the start of DA at U14. Everyone else plays CL or similar to their region.

the pro clubs have started developing players to be pros AND NOT FOR COLLEGE. it will still take many years and a TOTALLY dollar free structure to get most of the talent. the are some that don't belong in DA. to say 98% don't belong is the most ridiculous, uneducated SLAM on these boys i could imagine LMAO. its a start     

The majority of the most talented athletes have migrated to the DA. Certainly not all the boys, but a vast majority. That is not to imply that all the DA athletes belong there. At least half the athletes I have observed would be better served on a lower level D1 team, IMHO.

Academy is a great way to be viewed by scouts. We know this from personal experience. One of our sons has been observed and approached by multiple national and collegiate coaches. The purpose of DA is to raise the standards bar to ensure that all DA clubs are teaching to the same level. While this is a lofty goal, it is not being implemented. Its sole purpose is to feed the best of the best athletes onto the UMNT. It's not done for the individual athlete. If the boy benefits, it's a bonus, but it not the primary goal of the USSF.

It's a dog-eat-dog world at this level....but the best of the boys do get scouted. Hopefully they choose to play college soccer, and the blessed few may play in the 2018 and 2022 World Cups!

soccerdadrandy wrote:

finish1 wrote:GO had mentioned a while back that until the Pro clubs start developing players to become Pros and not college students, we are doomed to the current repetitive cycle of mediocrity. I totally agree.

Also, he stated that 98% of the kids playing DA don't belong there. Probably also a very true statement that parents don't want to accept.

Why not reduce the kids down to 1 team per region, per age group from the start of DA at U14. Everyone else plays CL or similar to their region.

the pro clubs have started developing players to be pros AND NOT FOR COLLEGE. it will still take many years and a TOTALLY dollar free structure to get most of the talent. the are some that don't belong in DA. to say 98% don't belong is the most ridiculous, uneducated SLAM on these boys i could imagine LMAO. its a start       

Actually I will start with the fact that the vast majority of the Da players have NO intentions of every play pro soccer. So back to the origional point they have no business in DA. Second I can only speak to the U14 and I would say from the local DA clubs there is probably enough talent to make one team especially if you eliminate those with no professional aspirations. So if the USSF goal is to improve the national team first they need to scout better, second train better, third don' waste resources on kids with no interest in the stated goal. Also I think the DA events should be opened to pro scouts from around the world and college scouts should be pushed back into your regular showcase events with CL and were a majority of players belong.

go99 wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

finish1 wrote:GO had mentioned a while back that until the Pro clubs start developing players to become Pros and not college students, we are doomed to the current repetitive cycle of mediocrity. I totally agree.

Also, he stated that 98% of the kids playing DA don't belong there. Probably also a very true statement that parents don't want to accept.

Why not reduce the kids down to 1 team per region, per age group from the start of DA at U14. Everyone else plays CL or similar to their region.

the pro clubs have started developing players to be pros AND NOT FOR COLLEGE. it will still take many years and a TOTALLY dollar free structure to get most of the talent. the are some that don't belong in DA. to say 98% don't belong is the most ridiculous, uneducated SLAM on these boys i could imagine LMAO. its a start       

Actually I will start with the fact that the vast majority of the Da players have NO intentions of every play pro soccer. So back to the origional point they have no business in DA.  Second I can only speak to the U14 and I would say from the local DA clubs there is probably enough talent to make one team especially if you eliminate those with no professional aspirations.  So if the USSF goal is to improve the national team first they need to scout better, second train better, third don' waste resources on kids with no interest in the stated goal.  Also I think the DA events should be opened to pro scouts from around the world and college scouts should be pushed back into your regular showcase events with CL and were a majority of players belong.

if they try to GUESS (thats right it is very subjective at this age as well as hard to narrow down to 20-30 even as adults) which 20 or so bb's should be on THE DA Squad they would miss some talent. More teams. more players allows everyone to develop. Now i will agree that there are two many d1,d2 classic teams. narrowing that down would be beneficial to parents.

but "go" you either have to say the DA is a step in right direction or WRONG direction. i don't think, in its infancy that one could honestly say its a useless program....

It's a step in the right direction. The most important thing they have to do is stop trying to please everyone and trying to make it viable for eveyone. Kids that do not want to be pro soccer players are not broken and developing, playing, going on to college and then off to a real job is a viable plan but the US will never win the world cup with accountants. The paths need to be seperated.

go99 wrote:It's a step in the right direction.  The most important thing they have to do is stop trying to please everyone and trying to make it viable for eveyone.  Kids that do not want to be pro soccer players are not broken and developing, playing, going on to college and then off to a real job is a viable plan but the US will never win the world cup with accountants.  The paths need to be separated.

   

That's the 98% and the part I agree with. The kids with pro ambitions should separate at U16 and be trained by the pros for the pros. If your bb has pro ambitions, he should be at FCD by that age or earlier because they are the only pro club in NTX.

the problem there is they are doing the same thing as everyone else. Training college players

We have a long way to go, GO.


Maybe Elite247 can save us all!

go99 wrote:the problem there is they are doing the same thing as everyone else.  Training college players

This is exactly the problem. Everyone touts the scholarships their players get and that shouldn't be the end goal, sending kids to Europe to play, getting them signed to MLS contracts, sending them to South America, etc should be the goal. Placing players into the upper ranks of professional soccere should be the goal.

If you want to play professionally, college does more harm than good to most potential soccer careers.

The college scouts should be pushed back towards the regular leagues and the DA should be the destination for pro scouts. Oh and the DA should be entirely fully funded

The DA should not be under the complete control of the clubs if you are going to limit player identification solely through it.

Club goals are not in lock step with USSF goals and there are other factors that allow for variance in a club's player pool that are not based on merit.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:The DA should not be under the complete control of the clubs if you are going to limit player identification solely through it.

Club goals are not in lock step with USSF goals and there are other factors that allow for variance in a club's player pool that are not based on merit.

Well put.

College soccer in and of itself is not as big of a problem as people think it is. If we had more professional clubs (in a true pyramid) then we could have a large enough talent pool.

Pursuing a college degree AND a professional soccer career are not mutually exclusive. It is common in Europe for players (and encouraged) to continue their education while trying to make the first team. Albeit on a part time basis mostly.

Online classes, Anyone?

My point is, you can do both. And many do.

College soccer as it exists now (given lack of pro infrastructure) is essentially our version of playing lower division/reserve/U21/23. Just because you don't 'go pro' at 18/19 doesn't mean you won't later. vast majority of professional players don't really make it until their early 20's. We tend to base everything on the Neymar, Messi and Rooney curve.

And I can say from personal experience, despite the short competitive season and ncaa restrictions, athletes train year round. And that's true for most if not all collegiate sports. Especially at d1.

Our problem with scouting talent is that we are selecting from a relatively small pool. You rarely if ever see players being selected from small, independent clubs or players outside of the major markets. And now it has gotten worse because the national youth pool players are almost exclusively coming from a base of what, 80 clubs?

Cherry picking if you will.

A well connected coach from a big club is in a much better position to get his players identified. Just the way it is.

Which is why we probably have more American kids falling thru the cracks.

It's great that we try to id our best players early. But that isn't going to impact the players they become to a large degree.

When I see MLS/NASL/USL clubs actively going out and recruiting young players via combines, individual scouting, etc. then we possibly begin to discuss the quality of our scouting and its effectiveness.

okay that is misleading. In europe you have a soccer player who also does some college. Here you have a student who plays some soccer. It is never about going to school per se and professional player has plenty of time to go to college. College soccer here is not and will never be a viable development model it actually retards the players development during cucial years.

go99 wrote:okay that is misleading.  In europe you have a soccer player who also does some college.  Here you have a student who plays some soccer.  It is never about going to school per se and professional player has plenty of time to go to college.  College soccer here is not and will never be a viable development model it actually retards the players development during cucial years.  

Agree for the most part. However, unfortunately it is all we have. There just aren't enough truly professional opportunities in the states. Not casting a big enough net so to speak. So, college is a default choice.

But even in Europe, they are beginning to realize that they can do a better job at creating a larger pool of professional players. The EPL reserve league is debating on going from a u21 format to a u23. (Germany does this.) Then there is the Next Generation Series that provides a Champions League type competition for younger players.

There is a very short window to develop a professional career. You can always go back to school. Most people don't realize that even pro athletes with 4 years of collegiate experience rarely graduate on time. If they do at all.

people think that because the college route works for other team sports that it will work for soccer. Now, with more money invested, better coaching, rule changes etc. that may be a valid argument. But college soccer would have to be transformed into a revenue sport like throwball and basketball.

USLPro and the NASL don't have or are unwilling to invest in youth development. So, other than reforming college soccer (or going to Europe at 17/18 or younger) there are no real alternatives for our top players.

And the college route has become very popular for European kids that weren't quite good enough at 18 to sign contracts. Instead of dropping down to the lower leagues, they come here and become student athletes.

Until the recent USL/MLS arrangement, players signed to MLS contracts at 18 were taking huge risks and many/most struggle to get game time for several years.

The core problem is that on a broad scale, our players are not taught to be technical and tactically aware in the formative years. Consequently players that are technically sound and have intelligence are not nurtured and largely passed over for the physically mature "athletes".

So in my view college soccer is more of a byproduct, a symptom...not the disease itself.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:The DA should not be under the complete control of the clubs if you are going to limit player identification solely through it.

Club goals are not in lock step with USSF goals and there are other factors that allow for variance in a club's player pool that are not based on merit.

Would love to see more teams run the 4-3-3 rather than the 4-5-1.

finish1 wrote:
Would love to see more teams run the 4-3-3 rather than the 4-5-1.

I would have never guessed that you liked an attacking formation based on your username.... 

We tried a 3 5 2 last year, but I think that a 4 3 3 would have suited us better and it would have been very helpful when the other side counter attacked or got a break away.

The question in my mind is at what age we are ready as a team to try different formations other than 4 4 2?

What is the impact of learning multiple formations on a youth academy or U11 / U12 team?

Sorry I have no answers...Just questions.