Referee call a game?

by frauschlager 5/13/2017, 11:27 pm

Anyone ever seen a referee eject a coach and the cancel (forced forfeit) the game for failing to leave in time?

by 04Soccerdad 5/14/2017, 8:25 am

Never seen a game called like that before. Coach must have really pissed off the ref.

by bigtex75081 5/14/2017, 8:34 am

That is the ref's last option but, if a things are out of control, all referees do have that option. Coaches need to keep themselves, and the people associated to their team, acting within reasonable behavior.

by coachdom 5/14/2017, 2:37 pm

Done it. It's amazing how fast the coach (who refused to leave or took his sweet time after numerous warnings) moves after you blow the whistle and inform the players the game is over.

by frauschlager 5/16/2017, 10:31 am

coachdom wrote:Done it. It's amazing how fast the coach (who refused to leave or took his sweet time after numerous warnings) moves after you blow the whistle and inform the players the game is over.

CoachDom - what's your guidance for when to call the game vs. when to let the action play itself out? Seems like calling the game impacts the kids on the fields (both sides) and the parents more than it does the coach. I'm sure there some of the "he won't do that again when I am refereeing" that goes into the calculus, but curious if you have any personal triggers that take you from ejection to cancellation?

by Uncleof05AP 5/16/2017, 11:00 am

I think some background information might be useful in evaluating whether the referee made the right decision. For instance, did the coach merely (and politely) argue a call or non-call and take his time leaving the field or was he being verbally abusive to the referee and throwing chairs as he gingerly left the field? Moreover, in analyzing the situation, it might be helpful in identifying the coach.

I will be honest; there have been times where I wish the referee had stopped a game where I saw a coach or parents completely out of control. That way, in the future, maybe they would act differently, or at the very least, pressure from the parents or kids would alter their behavior. ("Daddy, all the other kids said we loss today's game based on you screaming at the referee about the hand ball lil Johnny on the other team had that the referee might have missed. Also, what is a c##k, s##king m##her f##ker.")

by slrsoccer2 5/16/2017, 11:11 am

It needs to happen more often. The constant whining from both coaches and parents is becoming worse every year. I commend this referee and wish there were more like him/her. The sooner these referees stop being afraid of sending off coaches and parents, the quicker the behavior begins to change.

Both coaches and parents are so caught up in things that they completely forget the reason they are sitting on the sidelines. They are there to support the children, full stop.

If you are on a team in which parents and or coaches are getting ejected, especially at younger ages, then you need to seriously consider making a move elsewhere.

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 11:12 am

frauschlager wrote:Anyone ever seen a referee eject a coach and the cancel (forced forfeit) the game for failing to leave in time?

I have seen refs do that and also when kicking a parent out. Some of these refs are a-holes and abuse their authority.

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 11:20 am

So the refs are not to blame here at all? From all the responses on here it seems refs are almost God-like. I have seen too many refs with thin skin and who are the ones that insitigate issues with parents and coaches. I have seen refs turn around and yell at parents who are whining about calls etc just because the ref is getting tired of hearing it. Well guess what A-Hole those parents pay the fees for you to get your measley money and refs owe alot more respect to them. Also there is no way in hell these refs would yell and insult parents if they were not abusing their authority on the pitch. Out in the street they would not do that so why do it on the pitch. Next thing you know we will have a ref try and kick out a whole stadium full of people because they cannot handle it. Now don't get me wrong, there are refs who simply ignore the parents and coaches and go about officiating the game and do not make a mountain out of mole hill and we need more like that. Honestly we have too many thin skinned bitches refing games and there is no place for them either....remember PARENTS pay for all this s*!!!! $$$$$

by Uncleof05AP 5/16/2017, 11:31 am

Riquelme Rises, I always enjoy your posts. Nice try on trolling. You are 100% right in your post. By asking for background information before making an opinion, people were comparing the referees to deities. I also agree that it is all about the parents (not the kids). I mean they are paying the bill. In all seriousness, keep up the posts. I really do enjoy them.

by slrsoccer2 5/16/2017, 11:38 am

[quote="Riquelme Rises"]So the refs are not to blame here at all? From all the responses on here it seems refs are almost God-like. I have seen too many refs with thin skin and who are the ones that insitigate issues with parents and coaches. I have seen refs turn around and yell at parents who are whining about calls etc just because the ref is getting tired of hearing it. Well guess what A-Hole those parents pay the fees for you to get your measley money and refs owe alot more respect to them. Also there is no way in hell these refs would yell and insult parents if they were not abusing their authority on the pitch. Out in the street they would not do that so why do it on the pitch. Next thing you know we will have a ref try and kick out a whole stadium full of people because they cannot handle it. Now don't get me wrong, there are refs who simply ignore the parents and coaches and go about officiating the game and do not make a mountain out of mole hill and we need more like that. Honestly we have too many thin skinned bitches refing games and there is no place for them either....remember PARENTS pay for all this s*!!!! $$$$$[/quote]

What an absolutely ridiculous post.

Please correct me where I may be misunderstanding you.
1) Our tournament fees go toward paying the referees so parents and coaches should be able to abuse them?
2) There are too many thin-skinned refs that actually instigate confrontations with parents/coaches, for no reason at all?
3) Referees have no right to eject parents/coaches who are constantly whining about calls?
4) The referees must respect the parents because they are the ones that are paying for their game fees?

Your thought process is so out there, I am having difficulty even remotely comprehending the point you are trying to make. I am sure there is some logical stuff in your post above. Would you mind breaking it down for us?

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 11:47 am

slrsoccer2 wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:So the refs are not to blame here at all? From all the responses on here it seems refs are almost God-like. I have seen too many refs with thin skin and who are the ones that insitigate issues with parents and coaches. I have seen refs turn around and yell at parents who are whining about calls etc just because the ref is getting tired of hearing it. Well guess what A-Hole those parents pay the fees for you to get your measley money and refs owe alot more respect to them. Also there is no way in hell these refs would yell and insult parents if they were not abusing their authority on the pitch. Out in the street they would not do that so why do it on the pitch. Next thing you know we will have a ref try and kick out a whole stadium full of people because they cannot handle it. Now don't get me wrong, there are refs who simply ignore the parents and coaches and go about officiating the game and do not make a mountain out of mole hill and we need more like that. Honestly we have too many thin skinned bitches refing games and there is no place for them either....remember PARENTS pay for all this s*!!!! $$$$$

What an absolutely ridiculous post.

Please correct me where I may be misunderstanding you.
1) Our tournament fees go toward paying the referees so parents and coaches should be able to abuse them? Let me clrify..parents whining about calls etc is not abusing refs, however, if a parent verbally abuses a ref aka cusses at them then that is bad.
2) There are too many thin-skinned refs that actually instigate confrontations with parents/coaches, for no reason at all? Once again they insitigate situations because they get tired of the whining, which we have said does not equal abuse. Refs have no right to turn around and tell parents to shut up, they wouldnt do it in the street so why do it there. Refs need to focus on their job not what parents are whining about.
3) Referees have no right to eject parents/coaches who are constantly whining about calls? Correct. Cussing at a ref and insulting a ref calls for expulsion but not whining about calls. Ref needs to grow thicker skin if thats all it takes to upset them.
4) The referees must respect the parents because they are the ones that are paying for their game fees? Yes. Parents pay for all this stuff lest your forget it.

Your thought process is so out there, I am having difficulty even remotely comprehending the point you are trying to make. I am sure there is some logical stuff in your post above. Would you mind breaking it down for us?

You are having difficulty because you do not read carefully, but no worries cuz I have done that too on this forum. Simple respect on both sides should lead to less incidents dont you agree?

by Uncleof05AP 5/16/2017, 12:12 pm

Riquelme Rises, based on your clarifications, I generally agree with you.
Referees should never make a game about them. In general, parents are idiots, and the referees should have thicker skin when it comes to typical parent whining. My issue is when it goes beyond the whining, and you have some idiot father or coach (or worse, mother) dropping "f bombs" at the fifteen-year old referee that is just trying to earn enough money to take his freshman girlfriend, Tina, to go see Guardians of Galaxy II and possibly have enough to buy Cherry Limeade from Sonic afterwards.

by nearpost95 5/16/2017, 12:24 pm

yes, the fact that parents pay is a license to verbally berate, abuse, threaten, and physically impede referees, to interfere with their communications with field marshalls and league officials, to threaten the kid who fouled their boy, to confront the dad of the kid who fouled their boy, to incite their kid to retaliate against the kid who fouled their boy, to violate published league rules implicitly agreed to by paying for boy to play in said league, all from 6 feet off the touchline. yes.

agree with Uncle - the reason why there are not enough experienced quality referees around - they are run off when they are young.

am I saying that referees have bad days or not up to par games? not at all

when you have physically stopped a parent from assaulting a young referee, you tend to look at this issue differently

by bigtex75081 5/16/2017, 12:26 pm

A question to the group... How many games have you been ejected from? (Spoiler alert - Over 35 years as a player, coach, referee and fan... 0 times for me.)

FYI... If your kids regularly hear "parents whining about calls etc" and "situations because they get tired of the whining" and then are told "Refs need to focus on their job not what parents are whining about." Don't be surprised when your kid get tagged as a whiner too.

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 12:28 pm

Uncleof05AP wrote:Riquelme Rises, based on your clarifications, I generally agree with you.
Referees should never make a game about them. In general, parents are idiots, and the referees should have thicker skin when it comes to typical parent whining. My issue is when it goes beyond the whining, and you have some idiot father or coach (or worse, mother) dropping "f bombs" at the fifteen-year old referee that is just trying to earn enough money to take his freshman girlfriend, Tina, to go see Guardians of Galaxy II and possibly have enough to buy Cherry Limeade from Sonic afterwards.

I totally agree with you. Once you start cussing at a ref and making it personal then yes those parents have to go!!! I will give an example that happened to me. We were playing State Cup and the opposing team had a player that was a MAN, this due was big but what was funny is that he would flop and dive like he weighed 2 lbs and the CR would fall for it everytime. Ok so no one said anything to CR except the usual "Awww Come on!!" The game goes on and me and another dad start telling our players to watch out because Big Boy is looking for the foul and will flop. We called him Big Boy because first off all the players are boys and second he was the biggest and third cuz we didnt know his name. The AR called CR over and turned around and said he wanted Big Mouth #1 and # 2 ejected. We never spoke to AR and yet he did not like what we had to say. He pointed his finger at us and called us big mouths and was disrespectful. The CR immediatley said "Ok they are out of here!"...Are u freakin kidding me? I left and so did the other dad so the boys could get on with the game. I realized later what might have triggered this breakdown the AR had. He is black, and we were referring to this kid as Big Boy and he was black. So this ref brings his sensitivities to the game and abuses parents and kicks us out. Is that not abusing your authority?

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 12:32 pm

And Bigtex...focus on the subject. All games have parents whining about calls or preceived fouls but that does not give the refs to abuse parents. And just because you never have been subjected to being thrown out does not give you that standing to think you are better.

Riquelme Out!!!!

by nearpost95 5/16/2017, 12:35 pm

Riquelme Rises wrote:
Uncleof05AP wrote:Riquelme Rises, based on your clarifications, I generally agree with you.
Referees should never make a game about them. In general, parents are idiots, and the referees should have thicker skin when it comes to typical parent whining. My issue is when it goes beyond the whining, and you have some idiot father or coach (or worse, mother) dropping "f bombs" at the fifteen-year old referee that is just trying to earn enough money to take his freshman girlfriend, Tina, to go see Guardians of Galaxy II and possibly have enough to buy Cherry Limeade from Sonic afterwards.

I totally agree with you. Once you start cussing at a ref and making it personal then yes those parents have to go!!! I will give an example that happened to me. We were playing State Cup and the opposing team had a player that was a MAN, this due was big but what was funny is that he would flop and dive like he weighed 2 lbs and the CR would fall for it everytime. Ok so no one said anything to CR except the usual "Awww Come on!!" The game goes on and me and another dad start telling our players to watch out because Big Boy is looking for the foul and will flop. We called him Big Boy because first off all the players are boys and second he was the biggest and third cuz we didnt know his name. The AR called CR over and turned around and said he wanted Big Mouth #1 and # 2 ejected. We never spoke to AR and yet he did not like what we had to say. He pointed his finger at us and called us big mouths and was disrespectful. The CR immediatley said "Ok they are out of here!"...Are u freakin kidding me? I left and so did the other dad so the boys could get on with the game. I realized later what might have triggered this breakdown the AR had. He is black, and we were referring to this kid as Big Boy and he was black. So this ref brings his sensitivities to the game and abuses parents and kicks us out. Is that not abusing your authority?

what little tidbit of relevant information did you leave out? did you start personally addressing the kid? making a spectacle of yourself so that the entire field could hear you?

by bigtex75081 5/16/2017, 12:40 pm

Don’t label someone as “thin-skinned” because they’re unwilling to tolerate another person's whining. If you cannot control your whining… You’re the one that’s thin-skinned.

If something doesn’t go your way, state your case. After the final decision is made, quit crying about it and just move on to the next challenge.

by Uncleof05AP 5/16/2017, 12:44 pm

BigTex, are we only including games where we had family members playing and does it also count if you were ejected from the complex after the game for meeting the referee at his car to discuss his offsides call that cost your nephew the YMCA U7 championship? I just want to give you the correct number.

On a bigger note, your second paragraph is spot on. If our kids acted like us on the sideline, we would be so embarrassed by their actions. Yet, we wonder why they have some of the traits that they have.

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 12:44 pm

nearpost95 wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:
Uncleof05AP wrote:Riquelme Rises, based on your clarifications, I generally agree with you.
Referees should never make a game about them. In general, parents are idiots, and the referees should have thicker skin when it comes to typical parent whining. My issue is when it goes beyond the whining, and you have some idiot father or coach (or worse, mother) dropping "f bombs" at the fifteen-year old referee that is just trying to earn enough money to take his freshman girlfriend, Tina, to go see Guardians of Galaxy II and possibly have enough to buy Cherry Limeade from Sonic afterwards.

I totally agree with you. Once you start cussing at a ref and making it personal then yes those parents have to go!!! I will give an example that happened to me. We were playing State Cup and the opposing team had a player that was a MAN, this due was big but what was funny is that he would flop and dive like he weighed 2 lbs and the CR would fall for it everytime. Ok so no one said anything to CR except the usual "Awww Come on!!" The game goes on and me and another dad start telling our players to watch out because Big Boy is looking for the foul and will flop. We called him Big Boy because first off all the players are boys and second he was the biggest and third cuz we didnt know his name. The AR called CR over and turned around and said he wanted Big Mouth #1 and # 2 ejected. We never spoke to AR and yet he did not like what we had to say. He pointed his finger at us and called us big mouths and was disrespectful. The CR immediatley said "Ok they are out of here!"...Are u freakin kidding me? I left and so did the other dad so the boys could get on with the game. I realized later what might have triggered this breakdown the AR had. He is black, and we were referring to this kid as Big Boy and he was black. So this ref brings his sensitivities to the game and abuses parents and kicks us out. Is that not abusing your authority?

what little tidbit of relevant information did you leave out? did you start personally addressing the kid? making a spectacle of yourself so that the entire field could hear you?

Believe it or not dude...that was all that was said. I would not even have brought this example up if anything else was said. everyone knows I am not a saint but i would never address a player (kid). So either you believe me or you dont. The focus is on the ref and how he brought his racial sensitivites into it and judged us based on that. Of course I am assuming that was his reason cuz he never said why he kicked us out or why he said we were big mouths cuz we never said a word to him. I sure would like to meet with him outside the field to ask him

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 12:55 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:Don’t label someone as “thin-skinned” because they’re unwilling to tolerate another person's whining. If you cannot control your whining… You’re the one that’s thin-skinned.

If something doesn’t go your way, state your case. After the final decision is made, quit crying about it and just move on to the next challenge.

I want to be like BigTex...so awesome and can judge all. I am sure you have never whined about anything. But the focus BT is not on the parents whining its on the refs doing their job and not worrying about the parents.

Friend of mine told me a joke about how guys apply to be refs in Mexico. In case no one knows the fans in Mexico dont play. they really abuse refs. Our refs here would have to be admitted to pshycotherapy ward. Anyway it goes as such " Guy goes to the soccer ref association building. Goes in and is greeted by front desk mgr. He says he is there to apply to be a ref. The mgr says oh ok that sounds good. Follow me so we can get you to fill out some paperwork. They go into a conference room and there are about 5 guys in there and they all look up. one of them asks who is this? Mgr says he is here to apply to be a ref. They all act dismissive of him and one says this piece of s#@t want s to ref? Another says, man this guys looks like a p*&^y and another says he has the look of a freakin dumbass and on and on they went verbally abusing him. Once they were done the mgr looks up to the guy, who had not responded to the verbal abuse, and the mgr said "son you got the job!!!" The guy says "really?" The Mgr tells him that if he can take all that abuse and remain straight faced then he can handle being a ref.

by bigtex75081 5/16/2017, 1:47 pm

The decision for a referee to cancel the remainder of a game is the ref’s nuclear option. For me, the decision would be made by answering this question to myself… “Has it gotten to the point that I can no longer control this situation?” If a referee cannot reasonably control the situation, the game must be stopped.

I referee for a smaller association. Fortunately enough, I have not had to eject anyone yet. Warnings, yes. Ejections, no.

I’m the referee that our assignor calls when a problem game appears on the schedule. COACHES AND PARENTS DO GET BAD REPUTATIONS THAT FOLLOW THEM ACROSS THE METROPLEX!!! Once or twice a season I will get a call from the assignor saying, “Hey BigTex, can you ref a game on Sat. ##/## at ##:00 pm on field X? The BSYSA just called. There’s a parent/coach on the visiting team that’s been having disciplinary issues lately. We need you to work that game. We’ll have a board member on the sidelines to watch him/her.” I don’t ask for any information. I just show up ready to work the game.

When I run those games, the person with the bad reputation ALWAYS makes himself / herself obvious. It’s crazy how the warnings about problem individuals always shake out accurately, even when they know they’re already in trouble with their home association.

I always give the offenders 1 clearly stated warning. Since they are adults, I am only willing to give them 1.

With that said… Every time I have seen someone ejected from the sideline, I’ve always seen them warned first. And every time I’ve seen someone ejected, it’s after they’ve chosen to ignore the warning.

by frauschlager 5/16/2017, 2:20 pm

Uncleof05AP wrote:I think some background information might be useful in evaluating whether the referee made the right decision. For instance, did the coach merely (and politely) argue a call or non-call and take his time leaving the field or was he being verbally abusive to the referee and throwing chairs as he gingerly left the field? Moreover, in analyzing the situation, it might be helpful in identifying the coach.

I will be honest; there have been times where I wish the referee had stopped a game where I saw a coach or parents completely out of control. That way, in the future, maybe they would act differently, or at the very least, pressure from the parents or kids would alter their behavior. ("Daddy, all the other kids said we loss today's game based on you screaming at the referee about the hand ball lil Johnny on the other team had that the referee might have missed. Also, what is a c##k, s##king m##her f##ker.")

Wow - this took off!

Background Details - Tournament last weekend, game 2 of the day for us (game 1 of the day for the opponent), 25 minutes into the first half U14 boys. Two teams that are fairly well matched in terms of ability and physicality.

Both coaches and parents making general commentary about officiating (pretty typical of both Classic League games at this level, and just about every tournament we go do). No inappropriate language, no confrontational language, not really any abusive language I can recall by anyone involved. We had already seen 2 players injured in our first game for inappropriately aggressive play, so our coach was likely sensitive to anymore injuries.

Our coach took offense to one non-call that left one of our players lying on the ground (while knowing the kid, I know it wasn't a flop, but I also understand officials can be dubious about such behavior). The play in question seemed sufficient for a call or warning, but received neither. Our coach complained directly to the CR (from the sidelines, and then on his way to help the fallen player), as our coach always does when he feels he is fighting for the safety of his players. As the coach was returning to the bench, with his back turned, the CR motioned he was ejected. None of the parents, nor the players, apparently heard any words communicating the ejection, just the motion our coach did not see till he was back at the bench. The coach said he wanted to know what he was being ejected for, and refused to leave until he heard, either from the CR or from the Tournament Director, why he was being ejected. The CR then blew the whistle leaving just about everyone involved stunned.

I did overhear the ref talking to someone with the tournament that he waited 1.5 minutes after ejecting him, and since the coach was not gone, called the game.

IMO (as a parent and a fan), our coach was neither belligerent, nor abusive, though I won't pretend he was sitting silently on the sidelines the whole game. That the ejection came 25 minutes into the first half, and prior to any seeming warning to him or anyone else seemed additionally odd (usually CRs have put up with it for at least a whole half before they eject a coach).

Of course, there were no field marshals, so in the CR's defense, he couldn't really have flagged someone easily to address a coach that didn't want to leave. However, I was both surprised at the ejection (coaches and parents have done much worse and the game played on). I was astounded at the game itself being called.

I'll admit, I am not sure I have the personality to be a referee in NT youth soccer. And I am sure tournament weekends put lots of stress on referees who have to put up with back-to-back games of disgruntled coaches, players and parents. However, if I took on that role, I certainly would have thicker skin. It did really seem like the referee was upset that he was being shown up by a coach (or at least felt he was), and decided he had the authority terminate it (which, unfortunately, he does).

So there are the details. Basically, behavior typical of coaches, players and parents in U14 soccer every weekend across the metroplex - first time I have ever seen a referee call a game over it.

by Riquelme Rises 5/16/2017, 2:23 pm

bigtex75081 wrote:The decision for a referee to cancel the remainder of a game is the ref’s nuclear option. For me, the decision would be made by answering this question to myself… “Has it gotten to the point that I can no longer control this situation?” If a referee cannot reasonably control the situation, the game must be stopped.

I referee for a smaller association. Fortunately enough, I have not had to eject anyone yet. Warnings, yes. Ejections, no.

I’m the referee that our assignor calls when a problem game appears on the schedule. COACHES AND PARENTS DO GET BAD REPUTATIONS THAT FOLLOW THEM ACROSS THE METROPLEX!!! Once or twice a season I will get a call from the assignor saying, “Hey BigTex, can you ref a game on Sat. ##/## at ##:00 pm on field X? The BSYSA just called. There’s a parent/coach on the visiting team that’s been having disciplinary issues lately. We need you to work that game. We’ll have a board member on the sidelines to watch him/her.” I don’t ask for any information. I just show up ready to work the game.

When I run those games, the person with the bad reputation ALWAYS makes himself / herself obvious. It’s crazy how the warnings about problem individuals always shake out accurately, even when they know they’re already in trouble with their home association.

I always give the offenders 1 clearly stated warning. Since they are adults, I am only willing to give them 1. Warning for what Tex? For whining about calls or verbally abusing you? What exactly do you warn them about?

With that said… Every time I have seen someone ejected from the sideline, I’ve always seen them warned first. And every time I’ve seen someone ejected, it’s after they’ve chosen to ignore the warning.