04 Stop the madness!!!!

In looking at this site (especially the girls site), it amazes me to no end when I see "2004 Power Rankings".
Why are we creating "Power Rankings" for six year olds?
How freaking idiotic is this???

Why is this everyone in this country so obsessed with having your six year-olds play on the #1 soccer team. Why? Why? Why?

The only thing that matters at this age is development, NOT WINNING. Stop it, please!

Fabiano9 wrote:In looking at this site (especially the girls site), it amazes me to no end when I see "2004 Power Rankings".
Why are we creating "Power Rankings" for six year olds?
How freaking idiotic is this???

Why is this everyone in this country so obsessed with having your six year-olds play on the #1 soccer team. Why? Why? Why?

The only thing that matters at this age is development, NOT WINNING. Stop it, please!

We create power rankings for 2004's becasue people want to know. Simple as that. You have to remember that for a huge number of parents that is the only way they have to evaluate where they should take their bb or dd because frankly, they don't know a thing about the beautiful game. Take me for example. I grew up in small rural farming community and we only new two things. School let out for two weeks in the fall for potato harvest, and snow would soon follow. I heard of soocer as a youth and we played it twice in PE but it looked more like rugby than soccer. So now that I have a children and have found an appreciation for the game I've tried to find a coach or team that will teach the sport. Right or wrong, a list is the best place to start. We do it for everything else in life. Most of us don't have the magnificient group of kids that meet at the park everyday to work on their skills and creativity without the oppresive eye of a coach. Not sure you noticed but that doesn't happen in the suburbs like is does in Rio or Monterey or Buenos Aires. Seems to me that when parents are looking for a good piano teacher they ask around to see who is the best teacher. Same for soccer, golf, chess, violin etc. Granted the best team doesn't always have the best coach. I've learned that lesson already, but its a place to start.

There's a good book you should read "Talent is Overated" by Geoff Colvin

I understand where you're coming from, but, my point is does it really matter if your 5 or 6 yr-old is playing on a team that is rated high or that they won a tournament when their 7?

In other countries, most kids do not even play games or tournaments until they're 12 or 13. They concentrate on developing their skills, beating players 1 v 1, etc.
This is why so many kids grow up playing futsal, as opposed to outdoor soccer; especially in the superpower countries like Brasil, Espana, etc. This is why the US will always be a step behind other countries. We're too busy playing to win at young ages instead of developing.

I laughed my arse off when my 6 yr-old's coach last year wanted the team to play in some tournaments. They wanted to play in more tournaments then my 13 yr-old's select team.
I thought what a waste of time. No thanks, just give me practice time.

Want to impress us? Show me Johnny's skill level when he's 14, if he's still playing, when it counts.

Fabiano9 wrote:I understand where you're coming from, but, my point is does it really matter if your 5 or 6 yr-old is playing on a team that is rated high or that they won a tournament when their 7?

In other countries, most kids do not even play games or tournaments until they're 12 or 13. They concentrate on developing their skills, beating players 1 v 1, etc.
This is why so many kids grow up playing futsal, as opposed to outdoor soccer; especially in the superpower countries like Brasil, Espana, etc. This is why the US will always be a step behind other countries. We're too busy playing to win at young ages instead of developing.

I laughed my arse off when my 6 yr-old's coach last year wanted the team to play in some tournaments. They wanted to play in more tournaments then my 13 yr-old's select team.
I thought what a waste of time. No thanks, just give me practice time.

Want to impress us? Show me Johnny's skill level when he's 14, if he's still playing, when it counts.

That would work, but.....they aren't 14 yet. I always enjoyed the 'ranking' banter. Mainly, that it was very subjective and often based on a single person (like National Soccer Ranking). Once you reach select, it's just so much easier to look at scores and standings. Even then, the 'need' for parents to get their kids on the top team is pretty funny.

There's definitely money to be made as far as building bigger and better competitive formats/facilities for the young uns (case in point Kick It 3v3).

Full disclosure: my kids are both on top teams, and have gone to multiple 3v3 championships - but, I do see the big picture folly of it all. Take it for what it is - just some fun, nothing to be gained except the memories. Very little at these ages is life changing with regard to confidence building or career determination.

Fabiano,

I Completely see what your saying. I grew up in a soccer country and you cant explain in any way to most people in this country what your talking about. Its all about what team is best. And even then is not the coaching, its the piranha coaches picking the best kids and coaches taking credit for having the best team. Most coaches pick and choose and take all the credit. It's a shame. Parents just dont know any better.

Fabiano,

i completely agree with you and have to laugh at all the bs and nonsense that gets written on this forum. i enjoy a good laugh which is why i read it. unfortunately, soccer is not alone in this sort of behavior. it is cultural and part of the way u.s., and in particular this part of the country, society has evolved. it is almost as good as the 30,000 dollar a year millionaire mentality that we see everyday. it is unfortunate that individuals have to use their children to promote their own social or anatomic inadequacies. at least, that is how i have come to interpret it. super teams world class players in any sport are not defined at age 6, 7, or 8 or slightly older. many of the children that some of these people think are great players will not be playing in a few years and many who are currently not playing or who are defined as not very good will be the superstars in the future.

i think the best advice given to me was from my son's coach (he is an 01) was 5 years ago when he told me never to worry about losing or winning and that he never coached to win games. he was always concerned with skills! he explained that if the player didn't develop the skills early on that it would be difficult to catch up and learn them later. our son, who used to scream and rant about losing week after week at 5 or 6, never brings the issue up. he still plays for that same coach and would not think about leaving him. he will next year with select. trauma will set in. but, he plays because he loves the sport. his team is damn good. agin, we don't consider winning or losing as a complete reflection on how the boys played. other parents that have joined from the so-called top clubs have often commented on how far ahead our players are from a skills standpoint. they are all athletic, they are all competitive. they actually enjoy the skills. my son recently worked out with a bolivian coach and is begging for more sessions with that individual. it was all skills and core strengthening btw.

in short, who gives a sh#t if people think the team is good at 5-10 yrs of age because they win games. people should concern themselves with the happiness and development of their own child and not try to live their own life through him or her.

striker6 wrote:

Fabiano9 wrote:In looking at this site (especially the girls site), it amazes me to no end when I see "2004 Power Rankings".
Why are we creating "Power Rankings" for six year olds?
How freaking idiotic is this???

Why is this everyone in this country so obsessed with having your six year-olds play on the #1 soccer team. Why? Why? Why?

The only thing that matters at this age is development, NOT WINNING. Stop it, please!

We create power rankings for 2004's becasue people want to know. Simple as that. You have to remember that for a huge number of parents that is the only way they have to evaluate where they should take their bb or dd because frankly, they don't know a thing about the beautiful game. Take me for example. I grew up in small rural farming community and we only new two things. School let out for two weeks in the fall for potato harvest, and snow would soon follow. I heard of soocer as a youth and we played it twice in PE but it looked more like rugby than soccer. So now that I have a children and have found an appreciation for the game I've tried to find a coach or team that will teach the sport. Right or wrong, a list is the best place to start. We do it for everything else in life. Most of us don't have the magnificient group of kids that meet at the park everyday to work on their skills and creativity without the oppresive eye of a coach. Not sure you noticed but that doesn't happen in the suburbs like is does in Rio or Monterey or Buenos Aires. Seems to me that when parents are looking for a good piano teacher they ask around to see who is the best teacher. Same for soccer, golf, chess, violin etc. Granted the best team doesn't always have the best coach. I've learned that lesson already, but its a place to start.

There's a good book you should read "Talent is Overated" by Geoff Colvin

You got it all wrong stiker, a power ranking is not the place to start. Heck at U6 & U7 you would be better off having your kid play rec than paying for an academy coach! Chances are that by age 10 they might decide to play football, basketball or baseball.

If after U8 your boy still wants to follow soccer, then look for an academy coach and team, but don't do it off some so called power ranking. Don't be lazy and take your kid to different clubs and different coaches within clubs. That's how you should chose a coach and team.

You said that Power Rankings are done simply because parents want to know, but what they actually want to do is justify the thousands of dollars they spend on their kids soccer coaching at a very pre-mature age.

Now if you still want to stick with academy at this age and do a ranking, put together a ranking of the coaches who best develops kids at this age group. That would be more beneficial.

I know its not true in all cases; but I bet if you were looking for a coach to develop a young players skills and not push winning you should start at the bottom of the "power" rankings and work your way up.

As a parent it is easy to recognize which coaches would kick your kid to the curb at the first opportunity to bring in a player that fits their 'winning' system.

merlin wrote:

striker6 wrote:

Fabiano9 wrote:In looking at this site (especially the girls site), it amazes me to no end when I see "2004 Power Rankings".
Why are we creating "Power Rankings" for six year olds?
How freaking idiotic is this???

Why is this everyone in this country so obsessed with having your six year-olds play on the #1 soccer team. Why? Why? Why?

The only thing that matters at this age is development, NOT WINNING. Stop it, please!

We create power rankings for 2004's becasue people want to know. Simple as that. You have to remember that for a huge number of parents that is the only way they have to evaluate where they should take their bb or dd because frankly, they don't know a thing about the beautiful game. Take me for example. I grew up in small rural farming community and we only new two things. School let out for two weeks in the fall for potato harvest, and snow would soon follow. I heard of soocer as a youth and we played it twice in PE but it looked more like rugby than soccer. So now that I have a children and have found an appreciation for the game I've tried to find a coach or team that will teach the sport. Right or wrong, a list is the best place to start. We do it for everything else in life. Most of us don't have the magnificient group of kids that meet at the park everyday to work on their skills and creativity without the oppresive eye of a coach. Not sure you noticed but that doesn't happen in the suburbs like is does in Rio or Monterey or Buenos Aires. Seems to me that when parents are looking for a good piano teacher they ask around to see who is the best teacher. Same for soccer, golf, chess, violin etc. Granted the best team doesn't always have the best coach. I've learned that lesson already, but its a place to start.

There's a good book you should read "Talent is Overated" by Geoff Colvin

You got it all wrong stiker, a power ranking is not the place to start. Heck at U6 & U7 you would be better off having your kid play rec than paying for an academy coach! Chances are that by age 10 they might decide to play football, basketball or baseball.

If after U8 your boy still wants to follow soccer, then look for an academy coach and team, but don't do it off some so called power ranking. Don't be lazy and take your kid to different clubs and different coaches within clubs. That's how you should chose a coach and team.

You said that Power Rankings are done simply because parents want to know, but what they actually want to do is justify the thousands of dollars they spend on their kids soccer coaching at a very pre-mature age.

Now if you still want to stick with academy at this age and do a ranking, put together a ranking of the coaches who best develops kids at this age group. That would be more beneficial.

Maybe I am wrong about a list. Since I’m well entrenched in the system and have 11 years between the oldest bb and the youngest, I have the advantage of seeing both options. Years ago the oldest bb played bunch ball rec soccer as you suggest, at the time it seemed like the right thing, but in hindsight maybe not so much. Maybe we are at a stage in soccer development in NTX where we don’t know one way or the other which is better? Maybe there is a new team or coach out there that most have never heard of? Maybe the kids that are getting specialized training by specialized coaches at a young age will actually become better soccer players than they average rec player? Maybe their skill level will help their creativity? I think we have traditionally seen that from young players whose cultural background is based in soccer. Since that generational soccer culture doesn’t exist here, one can only work within the system. The list of top posters on this site will likely not agree but maybe things are getting better rather than worse for the vast majority of young soccer players in the US and in NTX. There are a number of opinions on the topic expressed in current threads. It doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t hurt to make a list. Again, we do it for everything else.
I agree that a list of coaches would be better, but that is about as subjective as ranking teams. There is already a subjective list; Gall, Woodberry, Partain, etc… it goes on and on as there are a number of others. Let’s be honest, most folks choose a coach that is close by the house and is nice to their bb Johnny, at least until 10 or 11, and then they spend time complaining that he yells too much.

Good points, Striker 6. I share your delimma with my oldest, who didn't play Academy until U10, only rec. He and I played daily in the backyard, shooting, dribbling and 1v1. In retrospect, he probably should have been in Academy to learn more skills. But, not all rec kids need to be in Academy. Good players are getting younger and younger every year. They need more than what rec has to offer and Academy gives them a place to develop with similarly talented players.


Agreed, as a culture, we don't have a generational soccer mentality. But, we are getting there. A lot of us played soccer as kids in the 70s and 80s. Our kids are playing now with the knowledge we passed on to them, as parents, coaches, and refs. In turn, they will pass their experiences to their children. Over time, there is a cultural shift. It's happening right now.

It is always interesting to me to read the comments of everyone on this specific topic. I am not sure why, and I have never understood why it is wrong to place your child with a good team, good coach, or good academy if they show interest in the sport and like playing it. It is up to the parent to watch the games, practices, coaches, etc.. and make sure that the environment is one that your child enjoys, and learns in. If it's not the right environment make a change. The key is for the kids to have fun, make new friends, and enjoy the game...

With all of that being said.... I guess there is no better place to post the fact that we have a local team in the Frisco area that is looking for 2-3 dedicated and skilled ‘04B players (DOB - 08/01/2003 to 07/31/2004) to join our 3v3 tournament team for the remainder of the year. We are looking for solid 1v1 and shooting skills. The team has now qualified for the Kick It 3v3 World Championships, but we are in need of filling the roster. This does not conflict with the fall soccer season and is a tournament team only. This team has three tournaments left. One in November (local), a Kick-It tournament in December (local), and it would also include The Kick It 3v3 World Championships that will be held January 15-17 at ESPN Wide World Of Sports Complex at Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, FL. Our team has great coaching, great parents, and has the backing of a Corporate Sponsor so the training, uniforms, and tournaments will be at no cost (other than the time you put into the practices) and much of the cost to go to Orlando in January will be paid as well.

This year we want to ensure that the kids who make up this team enjoy this once in a lifetime experience of having the ultimate in fun at the upcoming tournaments and at Walt Disney World.

If you are interested in getting more information about the team, then PM me.

.....It is wrong though to assume that a good record indicates a good coach OR that a good record indicates that a coach is developing the very young players skills.

To suggest the team with the best records have the best coaches is way off base. Now some of those coaches with great teams are also developing players so I don't want to imply that they aren't. Just saying that their "power ranking" is not the way to determine that and is a silly way to pick the team your BB or DD should play on.

FGFF wrote:
.....It is wrong though to assume that a good record indicates a good coach OR that a good record indicates that a coach is developing the very young players skills.

To suggest the team with the best records have the best coaches is way off base. Now some of those coaches with great teams are also developing players so I don't want to imply that they aren't. Just saying that their "power ranking" is not the way to determine that and is a silly way to pick the team your BB or DD should play on.

exactly.

I heard TFC Plano is starting an 04 team. Great coaches

threesoccermom wrote:I heard TFC Plano is starting an 04 team. Great coaches

Great let's start a "2004 Future World Cup Winners, super duper Power Ranking" list. I'm sure there are some 04 teams out there that have already won like twenty tournaments already.

Fabiano9 wrote:

threesoccermom wrote:I heard TFC Plano is starting an 04 team. Great coaches

Great let's start a "2004 Future World Cup Winners, super duper Power Ranking" list. I'm sure there are some 04 teams out there that have already won like twenty tournaments already.

Hey Fabio they just play PSA or RSA just like everybody else. Actually most of them just play in the FC Dallas league. They seem to have more teams than anyone else. All part of the great soccer revolution here in NTX.

Fabiano9 wrote:

threesoccermom wrote:I heard TFC Plano is starting an 04 team. Great coaches

Great let's start a "2004 Future World Cup Winners, super duper Power Ranking" list. I'm sure there are some 04 teams out there that have already won like twenty tournaments already.

Fabiano..... Ranking 04's is as silly as ranking 98's... Guess what, your beloved 98's are still pre-teens that the majority of them will never do anything more than play soccer through HS and be done with it. The fact is that soccer is not any different than any other sport in America. Just let them have fun...........

ThiefCatcher wrote:

Fabiano9 wrote:

threesoccermom wrote:I heard TFC Plano is starting an 04 team. Great coaches

Great let's start a "2004 Future World Cup Winners, super duper Power Ranking" list. I'm sure there are some 04 teams out there that have already won like twenty tournaments already.

Fabiano..... Ranking 04's is as silly as ranking 98's... Guess what, your beloved 98's are still pre-teens that the majority of them will never do anything more than play soccer through HS and be done with it. The fact is that soccer is not any different than any other sport in America. Just let them have fun...........

And us parents are paying thousands of dollars to see our kids have as much fun as rec. I think you are forgetting this is North Texas competitive sports. Everyone in this part of the country are pretty much obsessed with doing well in whatever sport their child plays. Please, trust me, the six year olds we are talking about are probably focused primarily on winning and being the best. It is a child's nature to try to be the best. So while our kids are young, how about we tell them they are the best, even if they lose. At least until they are old enough to see the classic league standings and see, "Oh, my team isn't the best after all." then they will be heartbroken and won't understand why you lied to them. My point is, no matter what we do, everyone wants to be the best and there is really no easy way out of it. If you feel like giving coaches hundreds of dollars to develop your kids skills, when they may not want to play that sport in the end, be my guest. Then you can feel all important about your kid being on the best team, until they decide they are done, or they want to be on another team. All I'm saying is that being on the best team really doesn't matter unless you have a typical kid or/and are a crazy, obsessive parent like probably most of us on this forum. After all, we are all competative enough to join a soccer forum and to spend all our time bashing young kids and saying how great one team is, and how terrible the other ones are.

I may be about to get bashed, but here goes: I am in agreement, as per previous posts, that it makes NO sense to power rank young children and that time should be focused on coordination, skill, and strength development rather than winning percentage. However, there is something to be said for practicing or training with players that are your skill level or slightly better. They all develop at different rates and have different end points. A child who is advanced and has to train with children who are just learning to walk or who would prefer to chase butterflies or stomp on ant piles may be at some disadvantage to being around players who are serious (as much as a 6-9 yo can be) and concentrate. I have seen practices where the coach has to spend time working with the "slow" kids or spend time having to discipline that the others suffer. I have seen training sessions where there are just too many childrent to coach ratios that any meaningful play or quality time can be expected. I have also seen kids who are not to the skill level of the others suffer because mom/dad wants them to play on the team at all costs (they are the ones with the ego and small man issues not said child). The child suffers because he/she cannot physically do the things others can do, gets discouraged, and ultimately quits. I think there is a role for having, and I don't want to use the term power rankings, some stratification, beyond say first or second grade, because children develop and progress both socially and physically at different rates and levels. There are some children who will develop slower, but still develop and even pass the other children. It behooves the system to keep that child engaged and excited to play and train rather than quit because they feel as if they are not good or quit because they don't get much playing time. I think this is where we as parents SHOULD STEP BACK and let the so-called professionals do their job in evaluation and subsequent delivery of skills and training. They should be the ones that determine where the best situation exists for your child to develop, flourish and enjoy his/her respective activities. That should be the difference between academy and rec level training. Yes, we pay alot of extra money, but that is what it is about. I have been very careful not to demand from my children's teachers or coaches, but to accept what their thoughts and recommendations are. I do not coach. I do not teach young children. I don't tell them how to do their job! And, I certainly wouldn't want you to tell me how to do mine (and I gurantee you couldn't!).

I agree with North Korea and mplsnsq.


The only thing is that I call BS to the ones that came on here saying that they put up the rankings to have better informaiton on where to take their kids.


The ones posting the rankings or requesting for rankings, I can gaurantee you is doing it because he or she thinks that they have their kid on the best team and they just want to hear that from everyone else through a ranking.


There is no way anyone with a bb at that age is wasting their time posting rankings or asking for rankings on this board if they don't have their bb on a "top team" already.


The ones who truly want to know where to take their bb come out ans say it. I have seen it many of times on this board where someone just comes out and asks where the good teams are in a certain area.

Quit making up excuses for the rankings, they just aren't needed at this age yet.

indyfc wrote:I agree with North Korea and mplsnsq.


The only thing is that I call BS to the ones that came on here saying that they put up the rankings to have better informaiton on where to take their kids.


The ones posting the rankings or requesting for rankings, I can gaurantee you is doing it because he or she thinks that they have their kid on the best team and they just want to hear that from everyone else through a ranking.


There is no way anyone with a bb at that age is wasting their time posting rankings or asking for rankings on this board if they don't have their bb on a "top team" already.


The ones who truly want to know where to take their bb come out ans say it. I have seen it many of times on this board where someone just comes out and asks where the good teams are in a certain area.

Quit making up excuses for the rankings, they just aren't needed at this age yet.

I agree... My point was that this could have been called '05, '04, '03, '02 etc ... Stop the madness! The fact of the matter is when rankings exist the kids and parents know about them and look at them. I am not talking about forum created "Power Rankings" who nobody should care about... I have a '97 and an '04 and whether I like it or not they both know how they rank and they watch it...

ThiefCatcher wrote:

indyfc wrote:I agree with North Korea and mplsnsq.


The only thing is that I call BS to the ones that came on here saying that they put up the rankings to have better informaiton on where to take their kids.


The ones posting the rankings or requesting for rankings, I can gaurantee you is doing it because he or she thinks that they have their kid on the best team and they just want to hear that from everyone else through a ranking.


There is no way anyone with a bb at that age is wasting their time posting rankings or asking for rankings on this board if they don't have their bb on a "top team" already.


The ones who truly want to know where to take their bb come out ans say it. I have seen it many of times on this board where someone just comes out and asks where the good teams are in a certain area.

Quit making up excuses for the rankings, they just aren't needed at this age yet.

I agree... My point was that this could have been called '05, '04, '03, '02 etc ... Stop the madness! The fact of the matter is when rankings exist the kids and parents know about them and look at them. I am not talking about forum created "Power Rankings" who nobody should care about... I have a '97 and an '04 and whether I like it or not they both know how they rank and they watch it...

I too have a 97 and an 04, and I dont think my 04 even knows what rankings are, he is more concerned at this point with the new episode of Adventure Time or the Karate Kid movie.

But I agree, its madness, and its parents and clubs that are causing this, my youngest went to skills with Solar on Sunday's for about 8 or 9 months, he was having a lot of fun, no pressure, just skills, games, a little excersize, Sunday afternoons; eventually they put together teams, then they begun to move players, build a super team, etc... We got out of there, let the kids be kids.

The "super team" thing with the larger clubs is unfortunate. My BB has run into two of them this season. I questioned the advantage when we played them in SDL where score, rankings or standings don't matter. So their purpose, at 04 thru 01, can be debated.

However it was obvious that those "super teams" created a sub-par team within that club; and that, IMHO, is the issue. We heard one of their players telling his teammate "This isn't fun". Their morale was low, they weren't showing any skills (don't know if it was from lack of or effort) and by the end of the game I am pretty sure my BB's rec team, which still has a couple twirlers on it, could have beaten them.

threesoccermom wrote:I heard TFC Plano is starting an 04 team. Great coaches

TFC Allen already has an AMAZING 04B team. They have a GREAT COACH!!

Fabiano9 wrote:In looking at this site (especially the girls site), it amazes me to no end when I see "2004 Power Rankings".
Why are we creating "Power Rankings" for six year olds?
How freaking idiotic is this???

Why is this everyone in this country so obsessed with having your six year-olds play on the #1 soccer team. Why? Why? Why?

The only thing that matters at this age is development, NOT WINNING. Stop it, please!

Last time I checked, practices were for development and games were for trying to win. A good coach can develop players and win at the same time.
Let me guess,..... your kid is on a losing team?, so to feel better about it, you use the tired old argument that winning teams are not developing their players.
Many of us have kids that play other sports. All of those other sports (Baseball, Football, etc.) have wins, losses, playoffs, and some even select all star teams. Heck even Blue Sky, Fieldhouse, and many of the private soccer leagues keep the standings on their website. Sounds like you need to go back to rec soccer or just go to skills training. Maybe your kid doesn't care about winning, but some kids have a natural desire to win. If your kid doesn't really care about winning, he probably doesn't have much passion for the game and probably wont last long in the sport.
If you don't like rankings, don't look at them. Quit worrying about others and do your own thing. It's real simple.
Oh, and I just looked at the girls site, and there is no power rankings for the 04's. (Just the standings.) Don't be such a judgemental drama queen.