Re: How do you select a competitive organization???

by Blond bomber 12/13/2011, 12:19 pm

AND! wrote:
anselansel wrote:Go to FC DaLLAS. Its the easiest answer.

Lmao, that's a good one !

Watching practices, talking to parents, talking to coaches are all hit-and-miss because they will only give you half of the real story. The real story is very hard to find out.

LOL. FC Dallas is the easiest answer because its the only PROFESSIONAL CLUB'S Youth System in the Dallas area.
If you move to LA the easiest answer is LA Galaxy. If you move to Chicago the easiest answer is Chicago Fire. If you move to New y York the easiest answer is the Red Bulls. If you move to Manchester England, its Man u or Man. City. If you move to Milan the easiest answer is Inter or ANY OTHER PROFESSIONAL CLUB'S YOUTH SYSTEM. Professional clubs are MORE LIKELY to have established the many things that it takes to develop great soccer players. That doesn't mean that there aren't private clubs that can do the same. But when you are looking for a club to take your BB to you have so many things to evaluate that it becomes a daunting task. You may need a team of experts to get to a point that you have only a suggestion of where to go.
1.) You need an accountant to check their books to make sure they are in the black financially. Many people moved from Texans to Andromeda only to have to move back because of Financial issues. Will you ask to see their books?
2.) You need someone that is an expert on Tactics to evaluate all the coaches in the club because you never know when the coach you pick will be replaced.
3.) Same as 2 but for Technique. Are the highly Technical players that you see in the older teams taught by the club or was it recruited in?
4.) You need an expert on club structure. A good club structure will make sure that the philosophies of the club are taught "thru-out" their youth system. At many clubs each coach do their own thing and have their own philosophy, but on paper the club tells the NIEVE parents that they have a system. What philosophy do you feel is the best? How will you check and see if the club's philosophy is taught thru-out the whole club.
5.) Is the club really producing youth(15-19) that are being sold to other clubs or used by their club. This demonstrates that they have an invested interest in the development of some of the youth in their system. This interest in some may also help them all.
6.) You have to make sure that their facilities are quality, large enough for growth, and they either own them or have LONG TERM agreements to rent. How will you do that? Are you going to ask to see their lease agreement? What is their expected growth? You dont want to end up practicing on a quarter of a field.
This is just a FEW questions that needs to be asked. Thats why I said the easiest route is with a Professional Club's Youth System. With a professional club's youth system you have a BETTER chance that these things have been addressed.

NOT HATIN' JUST STATIN'

Wow... my head just exploded. Everything you said makes sense. Thanks a lot.

by Blond bomber 12/13/2011, 12:36 pm

jesuit54321 wrote:Hi Blond Bomber,

I would consider a few key things.

At U12, your boy having fun is still the biggest part of develpment. Kids age/mature (physically and mentally)at different rate. A typical young U12 has a decent development gap when you compare him to an older U12. So focus where your boy will have a coach who is not so focused on results vs. giving everyone at this stage a fair chance at competing when he's 14 or 15.

- Pick a coach who's philosophy agrees with the above and practices it.

- For your first foray into Competitive soccer, I would recommend Arlington Premier or Plano Premier level teams. While there may be some exceptions, most Classic League coaches are under heavy pressure to win. At this age, more often then not, winning vs. development are often exclusive of one another.

- Consider the style of soccer you want your child to learn for the future. Kick ball style does wonders at younger age, but it doesn't translate well into later ages. If you look at a lot of posts, it's generally agreed that FC Dallas kids, while they won't win all the games in league or tournaments, will play the most attractive style. There are exceptions with various coaches in other clubs of course, but FCD (again not all, but in general) excels at teaching small sided type of games.

- Many coaches have differing approach to teaching kids how to play the game. IMHO, the game situations teach kids how to play better than any coach. Small sided games teach kids better than full size 11v11 games. Coaches are there to guide them and reinforce the values learned from these small sided games. Look and see how much the coach spends out of his 1 to 2 hour practice running technical drills vs. facilitating various small sided games with different emphesis. Coach should be developing small sided type games that create learning opportunities.

- At U12, if your child wants to play mid or forward in games because that's where he enjoys the game the most, then the coach should share that enthusiasm and help in develop his skills in those positions even if he may not be the best fit at this age. There are coaches out there that will still allow the kids to rotate through the entire line up at each of the positions - giving each kid a chance to play the position they enjoy. You won't see many of these types of teams at Classic level, but you can still find them at Arlinton Prem or Plano Prem.

- Shoot for the long term development. Many kids that may be considered studs at U10-U13 won't even be playing soccer after U14 or 15. Some of them just become mediocre as other later bloomers catch up. The key is to find a coach who shoots to excel with the team by the time they hit U13 or 14, not someone who is trying to win at all costs at U12. Of course, no coach will admit to this, but look at how he rotates the team during practice and at games. Ask parents if the team generally rotates through all the positions. Proof is in the way the team plays in games and runs practices.

The different perspectives are amazing... I am looking at Arlington and Plano (Leaning towards Arlington only because of drive). I know we aren't ready for the top tier divisions yet and to be honest, I want to make sure that I am as commited as I should be before taking that plunge.

I absolutely agree with the balance of small sided games and technical skills.

Though I think it is great to rotate positions and all parents want to see their kids playing forward, I am somewhat torn on rotating. I am not saying that skill sets for all positions don't need to be developed, they do, but I have seen how a player focusing on any position benefits by time understanding schemes and how they see the field. My son played forward his whole life until 2 seasons ago. They moved hom to defender for speed at the position and it took him most of a season to figure it out and another season to really excel. Once again, not disagreeing just torn.

Thanks for your input...

by jesuit54321 12/13/2011, 1:15 pm

Blond bomber wrote:
jesuit54321 wrote:
The different perspectives are amazing... I am looking at Arlington and Plano (Leaning towards Arlington only because of drive). I know we aren't ready for the top tier divisions yet and to be honest, I want to make sure that I am as commited as I should be before taking that plunge.

I absolutely agree with the balance of small sided games and technical skills.

Though I think it is great to rotate positions and all parents want to see their kids playing forward, I am somewhat torn on rotating. I am not saying that skill sets for all positions don't need to be developed, they do, but I have seen how a player focusing on any position benefits by time understanding schemes and how they see the field. My son played forward his whole life until 2 seasons ago. They moved hom to defender for speed at the position and it took him most of a season to figure it out and another season to really excel. Once again, not disagreeing just torn.

Thanks for your input...

I don't think we are actually disagreeing. Just listen and watch for what your boy is telling you. If he prefers defense, then he's going to get a lot of playing time in a position he loves, because 16 out of 18 kids on the roster won't trade places with him.

However, if playing defense doesn't capture his imagination or passion, it's going to turn into a chore for him at this age. There are many reasons for this.

Until he gets older, Defensive positions at U12 are safety first positions. Very few teams, even in Classic D1 encourages their defenders to build out of their back positions by making passes on the ground. You'll see many of them blast the ball out of bounds or "kick ball" the ball forward to no particular target. This type of learning, becomes nearly obsolete at older and more competitive level of the game. So learning to play defender at U12 has somewhat limited value for future in most arlington or plano level type of teams. Again if he enjoys the position, then none of what I just said matters.

Just look for warning signs. Is he less and less enthusiastic about games, tournaments where he's playing 3 to 5 games in one weekend, practice, working on his own, rather go to church then playing a game? He may be primed for burnout and you may be wasting good money in select soccer when he would be enjoying the game just as much if not more in rec level.

So, my reason for looking for a coach willing to allow a kid to rotate is that your boy may not know what he wants right now. You want the flexibility with the coach just in case. A club contract is not easy to break without financial repurcussions, so make sure you are looking after your own interest as well.

by Blond bomber 12/13/2011, 1:46 pm

[quote="jesuit54321"]

Blond bomber wrote:
jesuit54321 wrote:
The different perspectives are amazing... I am looking at Arlington and Plano (Leaning towards Arlington only because of drive). I know we aren't ready for the top tier divisions yet and to be honest, I want to make sure that I am as commited as I should be before taking that plunge.

I absolutely agree with the balance of small sided games and technical skills.

Though I think it is great to rotate positions and all parents want to see their kids playing forward, I am somewhat torn on rotating. I am not saying that skill sets for all positions don't need to be developed, they do, but I have seen how a player focusing on any position benefits by time understanding schemes and how they see the field. My son played forward his whole life until 2 seasons ago. They moved hom to defender for speed at the position and it took him most of a season to figure it out and another season to really excel. Once again, not disagreeing just torn.

Thanks for your input...

I don't think we are actually disagreeing. Just listen and watch for what your boy is telling you. If he prefers defense, then he's going to get a lot of playing time in a position he loves, because 16 out of 18 kids on the roster won't trade places with him.

However, if playing defense doesn't capture his imagination or passion, it's going to turn into a chore for him at this age. There are many reasons for this.

Until he gets older, Defensive positions at U12 are safety first positions. Very few teams, even in Classic D1 encourages their defenders to build out of their back positions by making passes on the ground. You'll see many of them blast the ball out of bounds or "kick ball" the ball forward to no particular target. This type of learning, becomes nearly obsolete at older and more competitive level of the game. So learning to play defender at U12 has somewhat limited value for future in most arlington or plano level type of teams. Again if he enjoys the position, then none of what I just said matters.

Just look for warning signs. Is he less and less enthusiastic about games, tournaments where he's playing 3 to 5 games in one weekend, practice, working on his own, rather go to church then playing a game? He may be primed for burnout and you may be wasting good money in select soccer when he would be enjoying the game just as much if not more in rec level.

So, my reason for looking for a coach willing to allow a kid to rotate is that your boy may not know what he wants right now. You want the flexibility with the coach just in case. A club contract is not easy to break without financial repurcussions, so make sure you are looking after your own interest as well.

I understand and agree completely.

by AND! 12/14/2011, 9:23 am

Blond bomber wrote:
AND! wrote:
anselansel wrote:Go to FC DaLLAS. Its the easiest answer.

Lmao, that's a good one !

Watching practices, talking to parents, talking to coaches are all hit-and-miss because they will only give you half of the real story. The real story is very hard to find out.

LOL. FC Dallas is the easiest answer because its the only PROFESSIONAL CLUB'S Youth System in the Dallas area.
If you move to LA the easiest answer is LA Galaxy. If you move to Chicago the easiest answer is Chicago Fire. If you move to New y York the easiest answer is the Red Bulls. If you move to Manchester England, its Man u or Man. City. If you move to Milan the easiest answer is Inter or ANY OTHER PROFESSIONAL CLUB'S YOUTH SYSTEM. Professional clubs are MORE LIKELY to have established the many things that it takes to develop great soccer players. That doesn't mean that there aren't private clubs that can do the same. But when you are looking for a club to take your BB to you have so many things to evaluate that it becomes a daunting task. You may need a team of experts to get to a point that you have only a suggestion of where to go.
1.) You need an accountant to check their books to make sure they are in the black financially. Many people moved from Texans to Andromeda only to have to move back because of Financial issues. Will you ask to see their books?
2.) You need someone that is an expert on Tactics to evaluate all the coaches in the club because you never know when the coach you pick will be replaced.
3.) Same as 2 but for Technique. Are the highly Technical players that you see in the older teams taught by the club or was it recruited in?
4.) You need an expert on club structure. A good club structure will make sure that the philosophies of the club are taught "thru-out" their youth system. At many clubs each coach do their own thing and have their own philosophy, but on paper the club tells the NIEVE parents that they have a system. What philosophy do you feel is the best? How will you check and see if the club's philosophy is taught thru-out the whole club.
5.) Is the club really producing youth(15-19) that are being sold to other clubs or used by their club. This demonstrates that they have an invested interest in the development of some of the youth in their system. This interest in some may also help them all.
6.) You have to make sure that their facilities are quality, large enough for growth, and they either own them or have LONG TERM agreements to rent. How will you do that? Are you going to ask to see their lease agreement? What is their expected growth? You dont want to end up practicing on a quarter of a field.
This is just a FEW questions that needs to be asked. Thats why I said the easiest route is with a Professional Club's Youth System. With a professional club's youth system you have a BETTER chance that these things have been addressed.

NOT HATIN' JUST STATIN'

Wow... my head just exploded. Everything you said makes sense. Thanks a lot.

This is another reason why i said the easiest route is to select a Professional Youth academy system.
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/44995/2011-soccer-americas-best-boys-clubs.html

Three out of the top Five clubs in the US are Youth Systems of Professional Teams.
1. Baltimore Bays
2. FC Dallas
3. New York Red Bulls
4. Chicago Fire
5. PDA

by finish1 12/14/2011, 1:00 pm

So, what made you choose the Alpharetta Ambush in Atlanta?

by Soccerinsanity 12/14/2011, 3:23 pm

AND!, have you been drinking the FC koolaid, or what?

Yes, it's a great club but it also has it's share of issues...ask any of us who have chosen to leave it for various reasons.

...Don't go into it believing any club is going to be perfect. It's a choice of which problem you want to deal with because all clubs, and all coaches, have strengths and weaknesses.

by Offsidesdad 12/15/2011, 12:50 am

Be very careful when choosing a club/academy. We have been through a few and currently went with Odyssey because of distance. However, what is most discerning is that the "parents" are running this organization. Do not choose this club if you cannot handle parents running the club. This place is so disorganized, but at this time-- I am going along with the politics only because my child can handle this. Otherwise, I'd stay clear of this club if money or distance is not an issue. We are from another team, we do feel "guilty" but, our child has many opportunities within this metroplex, was on a losing team but now starting with a top 3 team. What bothers me most are the parents. They treat you as if you are family, yet speak horribly about other players while the parent/parents backs are turned (about the other players that are quite good), This is quite uncomfortable.

by Laimport 12/15/2011, 8:41 am

My opinion is to steadfastly avoid any club where the parents are running the show.

80% of the equation is up to the player individually. Coaching is an important 20%. The problem there is you have to choose a coach based on their reputation. And that brings mixed results because you can always find people to say something negative about a coach/team.

The absolute most important skill is first touch/control. Most parents and players overemphasize dribbling. Dribbling should be a focus, especially at U12 and below.

But the bottom line is a player who has a clean first touch and passing ability will have an advantage.

As a player progresses his decionmaking becomes paramount. Skill is worthless without the right tactical application. Marrying technique and tactical insight creates the elite player.

by 94/00 12/15/2011, 8:44 am

We too, live in the "south". Made the drive to Dallas in Academy.

My son lives and breathes soccer. He watches the Premier League every weekend. Can tell you where the teams are in the table, etc. U-11 trained and played in tourneys with a Classic I team. Went there because of the coach. Things changed during the year with the coach someone else took over and turned bad fast. Son didn't want to go/train/kick a ball, etc.

Now playing in Arlington for a good coach, average Arlington team, but is getting better. His love of the game is back. He has all his confidence back. He does have many more shots taken on him now - which, is good.

So, find a coach your son connects with and nurtures his love of the sport.

Good Luck

by AND! 12/15/2011, 9:16 am

Soccerinsanity wrote:AND!, have you been drinking the FC koolaid, or what?

Yes, it's a great club but it also has it's share of issues...ask any of us who have chosen to leave it for various reasons.

...Don't go into it believing any club is going to be perfect. It's a choice of which problem you want to deal with because all clubs, and all coaches, have strengths and weaknesses.

Please read what is said before responding ignorantly. Never said it didnt have its share of issues. I only said that since its a Professional Youth System it MAY, I repeat MAY, have answered some of the many many questions that have to be addressed when choosing a club. I also said that some private clubs are able to do the same thing. Read..Read.....

by AND! 12/15/2011, 9:23 am

finish1 wrote:So, what made you choose the Alpharetta Ambush in Atlanta?

Dude we live right here in Dallas. LOL

I heard that Ambush is run by coaches that focus on the Technical development as well as the tactical development. I heard that they are not a win by any means environment. I also heard that the kids that play there truly have freedom to be creative without ridiculous pressure when they make mistakes. Should be a Great environment to develop in. LOL

by Guest 12/15/2011, 9:48 am

Offsidesdad wrote:Be very careful when choosing a club/academy. We have been through a few and currently went with Odyssey because of distance. However, what is most discerning is that the "parents" are running this organization. Do not choose this club if you cannot handle parents running the club. This place is so disorganized, but at this time-- I am going along with the politics only because my child can handle this. Otherwise, I'd stay clear of this club if money or distance is not an issue. We are from another team, we do feel "guilty" but, our child has many opportunities within this metroplex, was on a losing team but now starting with a top 3 team. What bothers me most are the parents. They treat you as if you are family, yet speak horribly about other players while the parent/parents backs are turned (about the other players that are quite good), This is quite uncomfortable.

My son has never played for the club you are talking about, but I do not think the issues you mention are limited to that club. Particularly with regard to parents being nice to your face and then talking about how your son can't play when you are not in earshot. I have seen and heard that go on as just about every club my kid has played at, including some of the larger ones. I think that is something you will just have to deal with and be a little thick skinned about. Don't contribute to the gossip and talking about other kids, but don't expect it to go away either. As this is competitive soccer, some of the parents will definately take it overboard. Heck, we encountered that in REC before going to select.

My view and what I try to teach my kids is that they should not listen to other parents on the team during or even after games. Just ignore them and shut it out.

by Laimport 12/15/2011, 10:28 am

great advice.

And, the better your kid is, the more resentment from the other parents. if anything, look at the resentment as a form of flattery.

Smile. Be humble. Stay focused on the long term.

by Soccerinsanity 12/15/2011, 10:33 am

Good answer!

by AND! 12/15/2011, 10:35 am

Laimport wrote:great advice.

And, the better your kid is, the more resentment from the other parents. if anything, look at the resentment as a form of flattery.

Smile. Be humble. Stay focused on the long term.

Exactly... Or just tell your BB to

"LET THE HATERS BE YOUR MOTIVATOR"

by krowdkontrol 12/15/2011, 10:50 am

Laimport wrote:great advice.

And, the better your kid is, the more resentment from the other parents. if anything, look at the resentment as a form of flattery.

Smile. Be humble. Stay focused on the long term.

Its even worse when your BB is getting better with the ball than the so called studs on the team.

by finish1 12/15/2011, 10:57 am

AND! wrote:
finish1 wrote:So, what made you choose the Alpharetta Ambush in Atlanta?
Dude we live right here in Dallas. LOL

I heard that Ambush is run by coaches that focus on the Technical development as well as the tactical development. I heard that they are not a win by any means environment. I also heard that the kids that play there truly have freedom to be creative without ridiculous pressure when they make mistakes. Should be a Great environment to develop in. LOL

Dude? Now you're talking my language. LOL. You indicated your 00 played up a year for the 99 Ambush at Disney, then the following weekend at the Nike Cup in Georgia, you said "we" were missing 3 players to Basketball and that's why the team failed to make it out of bracket play. Now you've "heard" about the club's coaches? Dude, please explain? LOL

Not Hatin' just Statin'! LOL!

by omega striker 12/15/2011, 11:45 am

finish1 wrote:
AND! wrote:
finish1 wrote:So, what made you choose the Alpharetta Ambush in Atlanta?
Dude we live right here in Dallas. LOL

I heard that Ambush is run by coaches that focus on the Technical development as well as the tactical development. I heard that they are not a win by any means environment. I also heard that the kids that play there truly have freedom to be creative without ridiculous pressure when they make mistakes. Should be a Great environment to develop in. LOL

Dude? Now you're talking my language. LOL. You indicated your 00 played up a year for the 99 Ambush at Disney, then the following weekend at the Nike Cup in Georgia, you said "we" were missing 3 players to Basketball and that's why the team failed to make it out of bracket play. Now you've "heard" about the club's coaches? Dude, please explain? LOL

Not Hatin' just Statin'! LOL!

yea this guy "hears" alot lol!

by Offsidesdad 12/15/2011, 2:49 pm

Thank you very much for the great advice! I really appreciate this.

by omega striker 12/15/2011, 3:04 pm

Offsidesdad wrote:Be very careful when choosing a club/academy. We have been through a few and currently went with Odyssey because of distance. However, what is most discerning is that the "parents" are running this organization. Do not choose this club if you cannot handle parents running the club. This place is so disorganized, but at this time-- I am going along with the politics only because my child can handle this. Otherwise, I'd stay clear of this club if money or distance is not an issue. We are from another team, we do feel "guilty" but, our child has many opportunities within this metroplex, was on a losing team but now starting with a top 3 team. What bothers me most are the parents. They treat you as if you are family, yet speak horribly about other players while the parent/parents backs are turned (about the other players that are quite good), This is quite uncomfortable.

ok wait a sec are you currently with odyssey or a top 3 team? and which are you have issues with? confused

by Offsidesdad 12/15/2011, 7:18 pm

Yes, Odyssey 03's. One of the top teams (SDL 1). But the parents are so obnoxious between them screaming (sideline coaching) at the boys during the games as well as making rude comments about the mistakes the boys make (during the games) it has become very difficult to keep my BB here. Between that and the screaming demeaning coach, I'd like to get my boy out. However, he is a major player here and he loves to win. The coach/assist. coach is rutheless. I'm doing some research as to where to relocate him. Need a strong coach, but one with patience. A nice group of parents would be ideal as well.

by What 12/15/2011, 9:52 pm

Offsidesdad wrote:Yes, Odyssey 03's. One of the top teams (SDL 1). But the parents are so obnoxious between them screaming (sideline coaching) at the boys during the games as well as making rude comments about the mistakes the boys make (during the games) it has become very difficult to keep my BB here. Between that and the screaming demeaning coach, I'd like to get my boy out. However, he is a major player here and he loves to win. The coach/assist. coach is rutheless. I'm doing some research as to where to relocate him. Need a strong coach, but one with patience. A nice group of parents would be ideal as well.

Sorry to hear all that about your current team, you guys have a good team always fun to play against. But at the end of the day you have to due whats best for your BB regardless of his role on the team. Good luck finding a team with nice parents and coach that's important, you'll find a team.

by What 12/15/2011, 9:57 pm

krowdkontrol wrote:
Laimport wrote:great advice.

And, the better your kid is, the more resentment from the other parents. if anything, look at the resentment as a form of flattery.

Smile. Be humble. Stay focused on the long term.

Its even worse when your BB is getting better with the ball than the so called studs on the team.

Comparing your BB against another BB on your team is not a good thing, you have to stay focus on your son, this is a long process have fun with it.

by AND! 12/15/2011, 10:46 pm

omega striker wrote:
finish1 wrote:
AND! wrote:
finish1 wrote:So, what made you choose the Alpharetta Ambush in Atlanta?
Dude we live right here in Dallas. LOL

I heard that Ambush is run by coaches that focus on the Technical development as well as the tactical development. I heard that they are not a win by any means environment. I also heard that the kids that play there truly have freedom to be creative without ridiculous pressure when they make mistakes. Should be a Great environment to develop in. LOL

Dude? Now you're talking my language. LOL. You indicated your 00 played up a year for the 99 Ambush at Disney, then the following weekend at the Nike Cup in Georgia, you said "we" were missing 3 players to Basketball and that's why the team failed to make it out of bracket play. Now you've "heard" about the club's coaches? Dude, please explain? LOL

Not Hatin' just Statin'! LOL!
yea this guy "hears" alot

"""" They didnt have three key players(goalie and center back) due to Super y finals and Basketball. " "THEY".....Don't forget about guest players.....Why don't you want us to live here. LOL

by SoccerDad12 12/15/2011, 11:49 pm

Offsidesdad wrote:Yes, Odyssey 03's. One of the top teams (SDL 1). But the parents are so obnoxious between them screaming (sideline coaching) at the boys during the games as well as making rude comments about the mistakes the boys make (during the games) it has become very difficult to keep my BB here. Between that and the screaming demeaning coach, I'd like to get my boy out. However, he is a major player here and he loves to win. The coach/assist. coach is rutheless. I'm doing some research as to where to relocate him. Need a strong coach, but one with patience. A nice group of parents would be ideal as well.

It's really unfortunate that a Parent of the Odyssey '03 team will have such an opinion here. I've been with this team / club for 3+ years and find the Parents, Coach, and Players to be very constructive overall. We tried out one of the larger soccer academy's (Solar) and my 6YO at the time emphatically selected Odyssey. The Coach is the absolute best at skills coaching "year round". Yes, he's loud at times while coaching but what my bb gets out of the experience is absolutely top shelf. My thoughts: Probably not the best public forum to raise an objection to your bb's experience with an Academy program all things considered. I'm well aware of all the nuances and experiences with most if not all Parent / BB players with this club the past 3 years and could more than likely share the issues that don't include the club or coach stress points. Let's try to be the adault in the room here. :0

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