Pre-Academy - Let the madness begin

Pre-Academy is going to create so much drama and damage. Players, but mostly parents will think that their 12 yr old must make one of the 4 academy clubs or all is lost! My son will never play in the EPL! Pre-Academy clubs make claims such as better coaching. Been around this area for a while and I have seen the same coaches here for some time, even before Academy.

I strongly encourage all of you parents of stars to stay with your club if your kid is playing, improving and happy. You don't have to travel from this area to find quality competition. U13-U15 pre-academy not for me. but then I have not played in quite some time.

I've always found that no single venue has ALL of the best players. Whether it's ODP, D1 Classic, DA, etc.

There are some outstanding players in d2, d3 and probably on some APL,PPL or indy teams.

Just perhaps not as many.

In most cases, the rosters of the 'better' teams are made up of bigger, faster and stronger players. (Usually the early birthdates and physical maturation account for this.)

So, what are you getting with pre academy that you weren't getting with the CL? More training? Better coaching? (I doubt it....probably same coaches as before.) Definitely more travel.

Better competition? Yes and no.

Speaking of competition, how important is it? Where does it factor in...in terms of developmental importance? More importantly, at what ages?

At 13 and 14, the emphasis should be on technique with an introduction to tactics.

Can players really learn these concepts properly when the objective for the weekend is to beat your rival club? (Job security for the coach and recruiting opportunities for the club?)

While there is truth in the idea of training and competing with the best....there's also a lot of 'baggage' that comes with it.

I'm not knocking pre academy. Because some of the same problems exist with Classic league teams.

That said, I think skeptic hit it on the head. If your player is happy, learning and improving, then that's all you can ask for.

I believe the concept of PA is to take the kids who have shown advanced knowledge and skill, then have them compete with players at a similar level. So far, I believe that idea is right on target. PA also requires a level of commitment that may not be present in other leagues. As the kids get older, the commitment increases until only the truly comitted remain (DA).

I would recommend PA for anyone interested in elevating their game. From what I've seen in the 98 birth year, the top known players in NTX are playing PA, either full time or developmental. Some of the top 99 birth year kids are getting some play time as well.


I know of one 99 that is playing PA full time and scoring lots of goals. Isn't that development from a striker? Proof that winning and development are not mutually exclusive.


I also agree there is more than one way to get there and that your player has to be happy where he is competing. If he is not happy, there is no development, and it doesn't matter if the team is in first place or last place.

I believe the Pre-Academy rules differ quite a bit from the Academy rules. I have no direct experience with this so I could be wrong but I believe a pre-academy team can be made up of as many as 26 players. Each week, 18 of these players dress for the game.

Academy teams require that all of the players play at lease 30% however the pre-academy league has no such rule. It is possible for your son to make a pre-academy team and never actually get rostered for a game. This happened to one of the players who left my son's team. Now you can be dual rostered to your Classic League team so the player may be able to get some playing time in Classic League but obviously, this wasn't what the player and parents thought they were getting into when they signed up for the Pre-Academy team.

Yes, there are many differences in the rules for PA vs DA. Thankfully, our team hasn't swelled to 26 and probably won't. Lots of unhappy people in a pool of that many players. Same with an 18 man roster at U11. Great for club. Too many kids not playing.

The reason the PA rules differ from the DA rules is because preacademy is a US Club Soccer entity.

While DA is a USSF sponsored program. (Generally the same participating clubs in both though.)

Again, I'm not berating the PA teams. But, I think it's important to point out (once again) that youth players don't always (and rarely do)develop at the same rate.

A lot of the "elite" players at youth level are better because they are more physically mature.

I personally judge players first by the quality of the first touch and their decision making on the pitch. Not whether they are beating people by simply being bigger, faster and stronger. (Which is usually the case.) Then again, as they age, dribbling should be less and less important...despite popular opinion.

If we lived close enough, then yes, more than likely we would at least consider the PA option.

For the absolute cream, it may be the most viable option. However, for the kids that aren't regulat starters, it may not be the right option.

You can't develop as much coming off the bench.

LP, if you lived closer to the Metroplex you probably would consider PA. Our coaches do a pretty good job of rotating players and very few play more than 50% of the game. Also, the starting lineup rotates constantly. In short everyone comes off the bench at some point. Very fair if you ask me. We do have our share of physically mature players. But, we also have some small players that have yet to hit puberty (growth spurt).


I also prefer first touch and decision making over physical size. I also like shape around the ball and lots of short passes to build an attack (possession).

There are only 3 ways mine will ever get to play in the DA:

1. Send him off to a "prep school" that is a DA member.

2. Be a part of an MLS DA (FC Dallas or Dynamo) program with a legit residency option.

3. Live with a "host family" that is close enough to a DA club.

For now though, it's playing up 2 age groups, lots of time hitting a ball off the wall and saturday pickup games with adults. Best I can do.

Oh, and he has the dreaded December birthday. Tall but slightly built.

That's great that your club rotates players around. I know it's tough to go from playing the whole game to playing less. And the option to also play in CL (to supplement) is beneficial as well.

finish1 wrote:LP, if you lived closer to the Metroplex you probably would consider PA. Our coaches do a pretty good job of rotating players and very few play more than 50% of the game. Also, the starting lineup rotates constantly. In short everyone comes off the bench at some point. Very fair if you ask me. We do have our share of physically mature players. But, we also have some small players that have yet to hit puberty (growth spurt).


I also prefer first touch and decision making over physical size. I also like shape around the ball and lots of short passes to build an attack (possession).

I have always thought the PA and DA leagues were good ideas and should my kid get there, it would be a good place to be. However, based upon your post, i am not so sure. I do not like the idea of rotating players and even the very best players often come off the bench and no one plays more than 50% of the game. I think to get better, it has to be during games and at game speed. Playing only 50% of the game does not strike me as enough playing time. Might be better just to stick with Classic League where he can play 80-90% of the game.

In the DA the rule is start 30% of games and play 30% of the game. Not much of a guarantee. I can not understand why any player would want to be on a team where you are somewhere between 15 and 26 on the depth chart. There are many who agree with you Running.

Running wrote:

finish1 wrote:LP, if you lived closer to the Metroplex you probably would consider PA. Our coaches do a pretty good job of rotating players and very few play more than 50% of the game. Also, the starting lineup rotates constantly. In short everyone comes off the bench at some point. Very fair if you ask me. We do have our share of physically mature players. But, we also have some small players that have yet to hit puberty (growth spurt).


I also prefer first touch and decision making over physical size. I also like shape around the ball and lots of short passes to build an attack (possession).

I have always thought the PA and DA leagues were good ideas and should my kid get there, it would be a good place to be. However, based upon your post, i am not so sure. I do not like the idea of rotating players and even the very best players often come off the bench and no one plays more than 50% of the game. I think to get better, it has to be during games and at game speed. Playing only 50% of the game does not strike me as enough playing time. Might be better just to stick with Classic League where he can play 80-90% of the game.

Running - you may have missed what someone else also said which is at a particular Club, their PA rosters are in the 24 -26 range. Only 18 can be rostered for a game - do the math - that means 6-8 players cannot play in that game at all.Unfortunately this is not a one time thing - some players are not rostered for several of the games. Now one club's philosophy of 50% play time does not sound so bad. Buyer beware.

From a training/developmental standpoint, it will improve a player to be around and compete against better players.

However, if mine was 15th on the depth chart, I'd be looking for additional games/playing minutes.

Running wrote:

finish1 wrote:LP, if you lived closer to the Metroplex you probably would consider PA. Our coaches do a pretty good job of rotating players and very few play more than 50% of the game. Also, the starting lineup rotates constantly. In short everyone comes off the bench at some point. Very fair if you ask me. We do have our share of physically mature players. But, we also have some small players that have yet to hit puberty (growth spurt).


I also prefer first touch and decision making over physical size. I also like shape around the ball and lots of short passes to build an attack (possession).

I have always thought the PA and DA leagues were good ideas and should my kid get there, it would be a good place to be. However, based upon your post, i am not so sure. I do not like the idea of rotating players and even the very best players often come off the bench and no one plays more than 50% of the game. I think to get better, it has to be during games and at game speed. Playing only 50% of the game does not strike me as enough playing time. Might be better just to stick with Classic League where he can play 80-90% of the game.

Fact is, you may be the very best where you are now, but not so much in the PA league. I've seen kids that have played 100% of every game for the past 5 years (including tournaments) get less play time. Not because of rotation, but because they can't produce and the coach yanked them. Humbling experience, I'm sure. Fact is, not everyone is ready for the pace of play (or Soccer IQ) that PA requires. Who knows, your BB may be a 100% play time PA stud. But, then again, maybe he's not as ready as you think...If you're playing 80% at the very top of D1 right now, You might be ready for 50% at the top of PA. Train hard and stay thirsty my friends.

finish1 wrote:

Running wrote:

finish1 wrote:LP, if you lived closer to the Metroplex you probably would consider PA. Our coaches do a pretty good job of rotating players and very few play more than 50% of the game. Also, the starting lineup rotates constantly. In short everyone comes off the bench at some point. Very fair if you ask me. We do have our share of physically mature players. But, we also have some small players that have yet to hit puberty (growth spurt).


I also prefer first touch and decision making over physical size. I also like shape around the ball and lots of short passes to build an attack (possession).

I have always thought the PA and DA leagues were good ideas and should my kid get there, it would be a good place to be. However, based upon your post, i am not so sure. I do not like the idea of rotating players and even the very best players often come off the bench and no one plays more than 50% of the game. I think to get better, it has to be during games and at game speed. Playing only 50% of the game does not strike me as enough playing time. Might be better just to stick with Classic League where he can play 80-90% of the game.

Fact is, you may be the very best where you are now, but not so much in the PA league. I've seen kids that have played 100% of every game for the past 5 years (including tournaments) get less play time. Not because of rotation, but because they can't produce and the coach yanked them. Humbling experience, I'm sure. Fact is, not everyone is ready for the pace of play (or Soccer IQ) that PA requires. Who knows, your BB may be a 100% play time PA stud. But, then again, maybe he's not as ready as you think...If you're playing 80% at the very top of D1 right now, You might be ready for 50% at the top of PA. Train hard and stay thirsty my friends.

I see what you are saying and understand you never can tell how a kid will pan out until he is faced with that competition. My kid is a few years away so not telling where he will be. My thought was that if he is getting %100 play time on a D1 team and then only gets 50% on a PA team I would rather have him on a D1 with more play time. He might not be good enough for the PA team and that is fine, but what about the kids that are studs on the PA team? They should get to play 80-90% on the PA team. IF my kid was a stud on a PA team and only got to play 50% of the time, we would not be there. I may have misconstured your previous post and maybe the best do get to play 90% on the PA, but if not, they should.

I don't always spit out useless soccer comments, but when I do, I prefer TSXOCCER.info.

Great comeback line. Funny stuff. Every team has its studs that get more play time than the rest. Ours is no exception. Will always be that way. Bottom line, play where your son is the happiest. PA, Classic, Arlington, rec or another sport. Happy kids make better grades.

without going into too much detail, I wasn't that impressed with the overall level of classic league that I observed in the fall. (This was u14 boys.)

And the differences between d1 and d2 were mainly player size/physical maturation.

There were/are d1 players that probably would be better off playing d2.

And there were certainly d2 players that could easily play for d1 teams.

So, there is a sizable overlap in player quality between the levels.

It's understandable for parents (to a degree) to equate player status with whatever team their child is on.

To be candid, I've never had the luxury (based on geography) of having the opportunity to see my son play for a top level team in his own age group.

So, I find it hard to believe that the top 44 98 (birth year) players are all rostered on the 4 PA teams. It might be 25-30 of the top 44.

Again, to be fair, I haven't seen any PA teams play.

But the team my son played for in the fall had lost a player that is now a 'stud' for a PA team.

And I think it's important to point out that this 'stud' now in PA came from a team that played D3 classic (won promotion)last year.

Reinforcing my point that the best "teams" don't always have the "best" players.

From a developmental standpoint, I think training with the best is a good idea. But if every game carries the pressure of a Champions League final, then it probably isn't healthy for the player...especially at 13 and 14.

Training with the best..yes! Do or die, highly competitive, results oriented league play...no! If it was the answer, we'd be producing far more elite players.

Competition is good. it's how we approach the competition that hurts the players.

You have an '00 playing '98?

finish1 wrote:You have an '00 playing '98?

No.

Why did you guys assume he's an '00?

He's a 98 (club) (12-97 bdate though.)

Laimport wrote:For now though, it's playing up 2 age groups, lots of time hitting a ball off the wall and saturday pickup games with adults. Best I can do.

Playing up with the 95's?

98 club (U14) playing with 96 (u16).

Winter transfer! But no hard feelings with that team or coach. Just got tired of the 7 and 8 hr round trip drives for CL games. between training sessions (east texas) and league games it added up to 600-700 miles a week.

And, given the level of competition, I didn't think he was benefitting as much playing his own age group.

With a d1 or PA team, maybe so.

But, logistics get in the way. We live 3-3.5 hrs away.

Laimport wrote:98 club (U14) playing with 96 (u16).

Winter transfer! But no hard feelings with that team or coach. Just got tired of the 7 and 8 hr round trip drives for CL games. between training sessions (east texas) and league games it added up to 600-700 miles a week.

And, given the level of competition, I didn't think he was benefitting as much playing his own age group.

With a d1 or PA team, maybe so.

But, logistics get in the way. We live 3-3.5 hrs away.

so wow you live past tyler somewhere?

Yes.

So close...yet so far..

Laimport wrote:Yes.

So close...yet so far..

yea bro thats a hell of a drive

Laimport wrote:Yes.

So close...yet so far..

Cheers to you Laimport for making that drive on a weekly basis.