DI .vs. DII playing time ??

I would like to propose a question to everyone. With all the tryouts and all the open practices. Would you like to see your son on a successful D1 team with no playing time or a D2 team with a lot of playing time and develop some more skills ? I know everyone wants to be on a great team and get a lot of recognition. So, at what cost does it play into staying with that team ?

Just think your son is on a outstanding D1 team and goes to practice everyday and show some improvement, but on game day nothing. He does not see the field except for warm-ups. Do you stay with the successful team and be the 14th or 15th best player or do you search out for a good quality team, where he can develop and make an impact ?

Also, lets say the coaching is about the same, so that does not play a factor. Do you stay or do you go ?

So let see what everyone has to say ?

I knew a player once who did this they decided to play on a top 20 ranked team at that time in the nation. His parents chose to have him play on that team even though he got no playing time. The player eventually quit soccer after a few years of working out as hard as everyone else but not getting to play. Riding the bench can adversely affect their love of the game. It is no fun to ride the bench particularly the whole game.

If your son is not getting quality time on the field you are just a team boo$ter. Might as well have a sticker on your car that says my money and my son support XXX Team! The game is the best teacher no matter the coach if they are not playing they are not developing.. if your son does not develop he will quickly lose his passion for the great game... He also does not need to play above his competition just to stand out. If he rules the field in PPL maybe he needs to be playing at a higher level. If he is riding the bench in D1 he needs to move down.

So, why do parents still do it have your kid on a 18 or 20 man roster ? or even 22 man .. I am all for development of a kid, improving your skill and being an all round player. That is just hard for me to understand of why not play for a D2 or find a D1 team that you can have good quality playing time. Went to a practice the other day and there were 24 kids trying out and think they signed 20 for the team.

understand injuries and high school activities, but still you see all those kids on one team and a loaded bench. I think club soccer has changed a lot. It was honor to be on a club team and not just a roster spot.

Sitting the bench the whole game is for when you are a backup pro, and you get PAID to sit.

Racer X wrote:So, why do parents still do it have your kid on a 18 or 20 man roster ? or even 22 man .. I am all for development of a kid, improving your skill and being an all round player. That is just hard for me to understand of why not play for a D2 or find a D1 team that you can have good quality playing time. Went to a practice the other day and there were 24 kids trying out and think they signed 20 for the team.

understand injuries and high school activities, but still you see all those kids on one team and a loaded bench. I think club soccer has changed a lot. It was honor to be on a club team and not just a roster spot.

I think you play at the level where you are receiving quality coaching and 75% plus playing time. I have been on both sides of the spectrum - had a bb who played 50% to 60% of the gametime on a top team, but we moved him down to play more as that was all that mattered to him anyway. Had another who we started at a lower level, gained a hunger and passion for the game and now rarely comes off the field playing at a high level. As for the 20 signed, remember this, the teams can only dress 18 so 2 will have to sit out every game.

This should not even be considered. Parents are so hung up on winning and think if the team wins and their player gets little playing time they have made a good choice. Our society sucks and we need a long way to go in soccer in the US.

[quote="TxHunter] As for the 20 signed, remember this, the teams can only dress 18 so 2 will have to sit out every game.[/quote]

Where is this rule from?

You go where your BB will get the most playing time. What is the benefit of being on a top D1 team if he doesn't see the field during a game. Sure he is getting good training but that isn't worth anything if he never gets to see the field in a game.

soccermom97b wrote:[quote="TxHunter] As for the 20 signed, remember this, the teams can only dress 18 so 2 will have to sit out every game.

Where is this rule from?[/quote]

Not sure where TxHunter is getting this information but it is WRONG. You can sign and dress up to 22 at U15 and above ages. Limit is 18 at U14 and below. State Cup is the only tournament I am aware of which had a limit of 18 players dressing in a given game.

Back to the original topic, in general 18 - 19 roster size should be plenty for any age group. Some coaches might go as high as 20 to protect themselves from injury, but if your kid is signing with a team carrying 22 and he is not a "core" player, he might not see the field at all in some games. In the 96 age group some coaches are known for having very short benches, especially in D1. In close games I have seen instances of 7 kids not seeing the field...sucks for them. Be careful what you ask for.

soccermom97b wrote:[quote="TxHunter] As for the 20 signed, remember this, the teams can only dress 18 so 2 will have to sit out every game.

Where is this rule from?[/quote]

I have seen it referenced as USYSA Rule 101 - U16 to U19 can roster 22 but only dress 18 for games. Tournaments may permit entire roster to dress. Classic League says they conform to USYSA Rules and FIFA Laws of the game.

Dallas Cup adhered to this rule this past year with only 18 players permitted to dress and sit on the bench. " Team rosters are limited to a maximum of twenty two (22) male players in all age groups. Game day rosters are limited to eighteen (18) male players. Players not designated to participate in any given game may not dress in uniform or sit on the team bench. NEW
"

TxHunter wrote:

soccermom97b wrote:[quote="TxHunter] As for the 20 signed, remember this, the teams can only dress 18 so 2 will have to sit out every game.

Where is this rule from?

I have seen it referenced as USYSA Rule 101 - U16 to U19 can roster 22 but only dress 18 for games. Tournaments may permit entire roster to dress. Classic League says they conform to USYSA Rules and FIFA Laws of the game.

Dallas Cup adhered to this rule this past year with only 18 players permitted to dress and sit on the bench. " Team rosters are limited to a maximum of twenty two (22) male players in all age groups. Game day rosters are limited to eighteen (18) male players. Players not designated to participate in any given game may not dress in uniform or sit on the team bench. NEW
"[/quote]

Classic League and most tournaments allow roster size of 22 players for U16 and above, and all are eligible on game day (I was wrong above when I said U15). That being said I think if there were an 18-player eligibilty rule for Classic it would be a good thing - maybe prevent these coaches from signing 22 when they don't need that many.

You are right if you are player 9, 10 or 11 on a 20, 21, 22 player roster, good luck ever seeing the field or playing during meaningful action.

Don't have a select player yet; so pardon me if this is ignorant...

Is there not a way for hypothetical player to be on a D1 team with lots of good training; but little to no playing time while concurrently being on a lower level; like a rec team or school team, where they can get a lot of playing time?

My BB typically plays on his Academy team and then either a rec team or academy developmental team. One he gets challenged and pushed and the other he pushes and builds confidence and gets assured that he is actually learning.

If said player is just stuck on one team then it seems that putting a player into a situation that limits their options and thus overall development is less than optimal.

Once you sign the contract to play competitive, you are no longer permitted to play in recreational leagues. School is different as it is governed by a different organization.

TxHunter wrote:Once you sign the contract to play competitive, you are no longer permitted to play in recreational leagues. School is different as it is governed by a different organization.

and your bb can still play indoor, futsal, futbolito, and other non-NTX leagues and tournaments...

If your kid prefers to sit and watch soccer instead of participating, buy him a season ticket to the FCD games. Season tickets are a lot cheaper than select club fees.

Would you like to see your son on a successful D1 team with no playing time or a D2 team with a lot of playing time and develop some more skills ?

i'm shocked you have to actually ask this question quite frankly......

Why are you shocked ? I have witness good players on the bench of D1 teams and just wonder why they chose do that. Look at the D1 to D2 ratio of good quality players. Watching good quality soccer is always exciting, but seeing 8 kids on the bench and no subs being used is not good for the league as a whole. Why not drop down or fun another team that will allow that kid to grow.

Do you not see that ?

soccerisgood123 wrote:Would you like to see your son on a successful D1 team with no playing time or a D2 team with a lot of playing time and develop some more skills ?

i'm shocked you have to actually ask this question quite frankly......

I think for most it is not so clear as zero playing time for a D1 team versus 80 - 100% for a D2. For many its 25-50% on a D1 team versus 60 - 80% on a D2. Plus there are the kids that sign with the top D1 team believing they can get quality PT, but for one reason or another it doesn't happen. If your son thinks he can play with the D1 team and at signing time/open practice the coach tells him he will be in the mix, then you can see why a player might choose this path.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that in D1 CL there are limited substitutions. Once a player comes off in a half, they may not return. So, there is less flexibility in seeing that everyone gets playing time at that level. Yet another argument that if you are player 14 or above, you may look elsewhere for playing time.

Also, you can have a game day roster up to the 22 man limit for CL, regardless of division. Some of the major tournaments do limit game day rosters to 18, though.

IMHO playing time is critical and game day situations are they only way they will improve. Lends itself to the goalie dilema. Some top goalies only want to play for a top team but if you have a rock solid defense maybe your really tested a few times a game? Playing on a lesser team and you will really get your workouts in.

Racer X wrote:So, why do parents still do it have your kid on a 18 or 20 man roster ? or even 22 man .. I am all for development of a kid, improving your skill and being an all round player. That is just hard for me to understand of why not play for a D2 or find a D1 team that you can have good quality playing time. Went to a practice the other day and there were 24 kids trying out and think they signed 20 for the team.

understand injuries and high school activities, but still you see all those kids on one team and a loaded bench. I think club soccer has changed a lot. It was honor to be on a club team and not just a roster spot.

We were on a team with a roster of 22 last year and the answer to that for me was that I didn't know the coach was going to roster that many players. If I had, we would have looked around.

allen04 wrote:Is there not a way for hypothetical player to be on a D1 team with lots of good training; but little to no playing time while concurrently being on a lower level; like a rec team or school team, where they can get a lot of playing time?

On one hand, a former (British) coach of one of my boys used to say, "It's not just with whom you play, but also against whom you play." I have definitely seen this with my own eyes and with my own boys. This coach played his bench and tried to develop players. As a result, he never succeeded at the higher levels, I believe because he didn't win enough games to be a bread winner for the clubs. My son loved him. Most of the boys did. My BB excelled with his team in D1, but in the end he chose top D2 this year due to coach and friends. I do believe his level of play definitely improved playing against the other D1 players and I questioned his choice, no doubt, but he is U15 and can make his own decisions.

On the other hand, Marcio used to say, "Never be on the bottom third of a team." Now, clearly there will be a bottom third of everything, but his point was a good one because he, in particular, hates playing his bench, so in effect these kids get little to no playing time. Their training is great for the most part, when the lectures are over, but their self-esteem and love of the game definitely suffer with this method. ML definitely believes just practicing with a D1 team is better than actually PLAYING with a D2 team. Seems like it could be true, except most coaches don't care about developing a player at practice who is not going to help them win games. I have come to believe in the first point, just not the second. Comes down to the coach.

The kid has to play in games. Practice is practice and teams/players always looks better in practice ... against each other. Game time is game time and provides the pressure and (hopefully) speed of play that differs greatly from training. Especially at the younger ages, I think I would HAVE to advocate for playing time here over playing at a higher level. Additionally, before hitting their growth spurts, many kids suffer too much bench time simply because of size, especially at the higher levels. Genetics can suck, but there you go.

And for sure, stick with the small-sided stuff, and I don't mean typical indoor (hardly small-sided anyway). Have some fun in summer 3 v 3 and play futsal year-round if you can. I have yet to see any format produce skill and speedy decision making like these formats. Plenty of touches, playing time and confidence to be had here, and tons of fun.

Marcio used to say, "Never be on the bottom third of a team." Now, clearly there will be a bottom third of everything, but his point was a good one because he, in particular, hates playing his bench, so in effect these kids get little to no playing time. Their training is great for the most part, when the lectures were over, but their self-esteem and love of the game definitely suffer with this method. He definitely believes just practicing with a D1 team is better than actually PLAYING with a D2 team. Seems like it could be true, except most coaches don't care about developing a player at practice who is not going to help them win games. I have come to believe in the first point, just not the second.


This is so self serving and endemic of what is wrong in youth soccer that it is breath taking.

He will take their money but not play them. He will play his top kids so HE can look good by winning. He admits that he cant turn a bench warmer into a starter because he hates playing his bench.He thinks his practices are so great that they are better than playing the game and getting game time touches on the ball. Not often that you have one person crystalize the problems in soccer.