DA transfers

something to think about.  IF a kid signs a USL contract, does that make it harder for him to go to Europe.  Let's say club A spends $1 million a year on USL team.  Easy to do with salaries and travel.  

Then 1 kid a year is good enough to sell, and club A wants $1,000,000 transfer fee.  Does that fee make it harder for this kid to go Europe.  I  know Europe has tons of money, but the kid can't go until he's 18.  So if you sign him at 16 you don't have much leverage unless you sign him to a deal until he's 20.  No top kid at 16 would do that, especially give up guaranteed college which is worth more than most USL salaries.  Why wouldn't the top kid just trial in Europe on his own until he's 18.  Many kids in US have done it and Europe clubs pay their way for these training stints.  

I think many kids want to play pro but the highest rated kids/national team kids won't want that deal unless they are very young.  Problem then is they can wait out contract and transfer for free.

I agree there are many kids that go undiscovered, don't want college, and want to fight their way into the pros.  This is where USL is great, but  if your not an MLS team, you better be willing to invest a lot of money with limited return from player transfer fees.  So now you have to fill a high school stadium to make your money back.  Without massive community support or a very rich person who doesn't care about money this will be tough in the Dallas market.
There is much more to this than most think

Currently are there transfer fees from the USL to MLS?

I could see a non affiliated USL team selling kids to the MLS prior to the 18th bday, and then selling everywhere post the 18th bday. A big transfer would allow that USL team to operate in the black for a few years, and promote a development focus since there will be an return on investment.

tpitty wrote:Currently are there transfer fees from the USL to MLS?

I could see a non affiliated USL team selling kids to the MLS prior to the 18th bday, and then selling everywhere post the 18th bday. A big transfer would allow that USL team to operate in the black for a few years, and promote a development focus since there will be an return on investment.

That is exactly what should and will happen and since there is no promotion or relegation in the MLS it makes USL teams completely unencumbered by the pressure of an MLS market.

How big a transfer are you talking to get in the black for a couple of years and see an ROI?  The only thing in USL that gets a ROI is fans, jerseys, beers and butts in seats.   It's a million dollar per year investment to fund a USL team.  Just  looked up average usl salary and got 22K. So that supports 1 million with travel etc.

Not sure of all the historical transfer fees, but FCD received around 500K from Chivas for zendejas.  you need two of those a year if your USL team trying to break even.  Good luck.  FCD can fund it no issues as they have deep pockets and MLS team.

We are talking about how it helps youth here.  Top youth kids are not going to USL teams so that USL teams can sell them.  They are going USL prior to their 18th birthday on pre-arranged deals with MLS affiliates and/or pre arranged deals by agents with overseas ties.  The USL team is getting the publicity and maybe some player creation fees, not big transfer fees.  I believe I read the Texans lawsuit mentions around 180K about potential owed creation fees for players, that doesn't do anything to fund a USL team.

MLS teams are not going to buy young USL players.  They are going to wait until the kids are out of contract.  Kids going to USL that are non MLS affiliated more than likely want leave the US.

It would be great to have a USL FCD 2, and USL Texans/Solar team to create interest.  The Texans/Solar would be all older (high school graduate), with some younger non paid players (college eligibility), and a few paid younger kids that don't want college.  None of which would be on a contract longer than a year or two if they are smart.

No where in here, does the USL build leverage to sell.  Your only leverage is longer contracts and sorry, just won't happen

Final note to support the USL is not built to sell players.  Look at the USL 20 under 20 list.  Pretty much all MLS affiliates.

http://www.uslsoccer.com/20-under-20

Training players to sell them here seems like a bad business model, agreed.

But help me out here...in your USL scenario, your net operating revenue for a USL team (with no transfers) is negative $1M per annum?

Or your gross OPEX is $1M per annum...and then we start talking revenue?

Cause if its the first one, then wtf, why would anybody own a USL team? If its the second, then you need to sell enough tix and beers and hotdogs to cover your $1M. And anybody you sell is just gravy. Assuming that ever happens.

But whatever. How much does it cost FCD to run its DA programs? 100 kids at $10k a year? That's $1M in opex right there. But fortunately for them, they get more than that in revenue from their youth programs...largely because they have the best Academy product to sell. Pro team begets youth teams that pay for DA program that hopefully generates players for the pro ranks.

So maybe if you had a USL team and improved the prestige level of your club through USL connection you could make up the revenues on the youth side of your club. Maybe? Hell I don't know.

I like the argument to bolster the youth club

I think most non mls usl teams are backed by someone with money that loves the game and draw good crowds. Pretty much live season to season.

You are correct that the majority can't be in it for the money.

Ownership of a Pro Sports club is for rich people who need writeoffs until their club gets established. Dallas and every other tier 1 city is flush with these investors and local governments are eager to help fund the venue if you have a solid plan and operating revenue.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:Ownership of a Pro Sports club is for rich people who need writeoffs until their club gets established. Dallas and every other tier 1 city is flush with these investors and local governments are eager to help fund the venue if you have a solid plan and operating revenue.

"rich people that need write-offs", sounds great except your write-off's are limited to your investment and your tax savings are limited to a fraction of that amount. I don't know a single investor that would view it as intelligent to invest $1mm (and necessarily lose $1mm) to save $500k in taxes. No one "needs" that kind of investment/write-off.

This used to be possible as losses weren't limited to invested capital and certain structures were set up to funnel excess losses to specific investors (type of tax shelter) with gains funneled to others, however these have been illegal for well over a decade. Back in the day, they were quite common in film finance actually.

Ventures such as this (a semi-pro sports team) are funded one of three ways, local sponsors, a benevolent benefactor who fancies owning a "pro" sports team but can't afford the actual cost of admission to own an actual professional sports franchise and/or by the players themselves. In most cases it's a combination of the first two though I'm personally aware of a new local semi-pro american football team that's presently forming that's getting part of its funding from the 3rd option.

You might be able to get some municipal funding if, and only if, you can solidly demonstrate how the local municipality would benefit (which most often means making a multi-fold return on its investmen, ii.e. they agree to allow you to forego taxes for 3 years saving the venture $500k, in return for a projected increase in tax revenues and employment equal to something between $1.5mm and $2mm over the same period, figures would need to be larger to get any decent sized municipality interested but the intent is the same). Municipal funding is typical reserved for far larger projects than a local semi-pro sports team. A Triple-A Minor League club might be able to get some funding to assist in the construction of a new stadium for example because the municipality would benefit from increased sales tax revenue, employment, and future property taxes once the incentive period runs out. Though even that is a big maybe.

Well that all sounds good in theory but in practice it can easily work itself out if you have the right amount of community involvement and investor support.

Something on the scale of a pro sports team has quite an impact on a local economy if it is properly managed and expectations are tempered in reality.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:Well that all sounds good in theory but in practice it can easily work itself out if you have the right amount of community involvement and investor support.

Something on the scale of a pro sports team has quite an impact on a local economy if it is properly managed and expectations are tempered in reality.

Completely agree. Which is exactly what I said. Municipal support is entirely plausible if you can show a solid enough return to them on a scale that matters.

maybe this is the answer...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2016/10/06/57f66224ca474127578b460d.html%3f0p19G=e

I won't pretend to know anything about private/muni agreements.

I will go back to relationship between rank/file youth programs and your more ambitious DA/elite programs. Which I suppose you could translate all the way to the pro/USL level. Elite level success drives rank-file youth team creation, and rank-file youth team numbers help drive/sustain Elite level success.

FCD has a zillion youth teams and it seems to keep growing.

Texans has always had a bunch of teams.

Solar has never had many youth teams. They are a soccer boutique. So I'm under the impression that they struggle financially and paying for DA is a burden. I would guess their current president is the kind of guy who can identify and fix obvious problems. Assuming he isn't just stewarding a single 01BY player through the process. Merging with Andro seems like a step in the right direction for them.

If you look at current CL, here are the # of teams for the DA clubs at the young feeder ages:

FCD: 9 at U11, 12 at U12, 9 at U13
DT: 3 at U11, 4 at U12, 3 at U13
Sol: 8 at U11, 6 at U12, 1 at U13 (D3)

So maybe something is moving in the right direction at Solar. Perhaps. Just seems like you want as many kids coming to your brand as is humanly possible.

Number13 wrote:I won't pretend to know anything about private/muni agreements.

I will go back to relationship between rank/file youth programs and your more ambitious DA/elite programs. Which I suppose you could translate all the way to the pro/USL level. Elite level success drives rank-file youth team creation, and rank-file youth team numbers help drive/sustain Elite level success.

FCD has a zillion youth teams and it seems to keep growing.

Texans has always had a bunch of teams.

Solar has never had many youth teams. They are a soccer boutique. So I'm under the impression that they struggle financially and paying for DA is a burden. I would guess their current president is the kind of guy who can identify and fix obvious problems. Assuming he isn't just stewarding a single 01BY player through the process. Merging with Andro seems like a step in the right direction for them.

If you look at current CL, here are the # of teams for the DA clubs at the young feeder ages:

FCD: 9 at U11, 12 at U12, 9 at U13
DT: 3 at U11, 4 at U12, 3 at U13
Sol: 8 at U11, 6 at U12, 1 at U13 (D3)

So maybe something is moving in the right direction at Solar. Perhaps. Just seems like you want as many kids coming to your brand as is humanly possible.

One may be stewarding an 00 goalie through the DA Program

Regarding solar, their CL numbers got a lot better -- at least at the younger ages -- when they merged with Andromeda. They also picked up a coach or two from other clubs. More teams at the bottom of the pyramid will hopefully help fund the Solar DA and keep them competitive.

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Number13 wrote:I won't pretend to know anything about private/muni agreements.

I will go back to relationship between rank/file youth programs and your more ambitious DA/elite programs. Which I suppose you could translate all the way to the pro/USL level. Elite level success drives rank-file youth team creation, and rank-file youth team numbers help drive/sustain Elite level success.

FCD has a zillion youth teams and it seems to keep growing.

Texans has always had a bunch of teams.

Solar has never had many youth teams. They are a soccer boutique. So I'm under the impression that they struggle financially and paying for DA is a burden. I would guess their current president is the kind of guy who can identify and fix obvious problems. Assuming he isn't just stewarding a single 01BY player through the process. Merging with Andro seems like a step in the right direction for them.

If you look at current CL, here are the # of teams for the DA clubs at the young feeder ages:

FCD: 9 at U11, 12 at U12, 9 at U13
DT: 3 at U11, 4 at U12, 3 at U13
Sol: 8 at U11, 6 at U12, 1 at U13 (D3)

So maybe something is moving in the right direction at Solar. Perhaps. Just seems like you want as many kids coming to your brand as is humanly possible.

One may be stewarding an 00 goalie through the DA Program