Classic League Referees/Officials

Here we are with a few games to close the Fall half of Classic League 2010-2011 and the level of officiating is amazingly heading SOUTH. Linespeople who obviously do not know the detail in the rules of the game and centers who allow flagrant/violent play which encourages more flagrant/violent play and a severe lack of cards to follow. I know that someone from CCSAI will say that there have been more cards shown this year-vs.- last year..but the reality of that statement is that because you enable players to be violent, they becocme more violent, therefore more cards. I would think that $34.00 for a center and $23.00 for a linesman should provide better than a bunch of old men who most likely are officiating only for the money. I look at many and can feel fairly certain that they have never played or had their children play the beautiful game. The fact that many are influenced by the roar of the parent group or an irate coach is simply amazing and shows the lack of dedication, competance and professionalism that Classic League and the others Select Leagues have come to accept as passable. Each week as I stand at Richland and PHP watching other games as my BBs warm up, I often strike up a conversation with other random Dads who are watching these games and the conversation always turns to the lack of quality of officiating while we watch others at play. I would love to launch a WAKE UP call to CCSAI, but what other option do we have other than to accept mediocrity from the Select officials... Any club or independant team would question the supreme rule of the CCSAI officials would be punished for questioning the TALENT associated with the officiating assigned to competitive soccer in North Texas...
For the 2 or 3 officials each week who call the games with great care and accurancy, I applaud you...for those that are here to only draw a pay check, WE DO NOT NEED YOU.....The last games I called were in the late 80's. I will be updating/re-instating my credentials to start calling games. I would hope that there are others out there that would do the same...

Bravo on your decision to start reffing - as parents we are always looking for new people to yell at.

Seriously though, I don't believe you are eligible to ref in classic league if you have a son playing in the league - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Ibra wrote:Here we are with a few games to close the Fall half of Classic League 2010-2011 and the level of officiating is amazingly heading SOUTH. Linespeople who obviously do not know the detail in the rules of the game and centers who allow flagrant/violent play which encourages more flagrant/violent play and a severe lack of cards to follow. I know that someone from CCSAI will say that there have been more cards shown this year-vs.- last year..but the reality of that statement is that because you enable players to be violent, they becocme more violent, therefore more cards. I would think that $34.00 for a center and $23.00 for a linesman should provide better than a bunch of old men who most likely are officiating only for the money. I look at many and can feel fairly certain that they have never played or had their children play the beautiful game. The fact that many are influenced by the roar of the parent group or an irate coach is simply amazing and shows the lack of dedication, competance and professionalism that Classic League and the others Select Leagues have come to accept as passable. Each week as I stand at Richland and PHP watching other games as my BBs warm up, I often strike up a conversation with other random Dads who are watching these games and the conversation always turns to the lack of quality of officiating while we watch others at play. I would love to launch a WAKE UP call to CCSAI, but what other option do we have other than to accept mediocrity from the Select officials... Any club or independant team would question the supreme rule of the CCSAI officials would be punished for questioning the TALENT associated with the officiating assigned to competitive soccer in North Texas...
For the 2 or 3 officials each week who call the games with great care and accurancy, I applaud you...for those that are here to only draw a pay check, WE DO NOT NEED YOU.....The last games I called were in the late 80's. I will be updating/re-instating my credentials to start calling games. I would hope that there are others out there that would do the same...

Guessing you are now in your 40's or maybe 50's - and since you rely on "random sideline dads" who are probably equally qualified to judge referee's qualifications, I can't wait until you re-certify so you can also join in to get your assessments done by "sideline parents" and players on a weekly basis.

I am very upset at times with the quality of officiating, but that is common to all leagues and levels. What you fail to realize is the realities of the pool of available referees that the assignors must work with or simply cancel games. This is common in almost every league including high school. There are not enough refs to go around. It is great that you are willing to don the stripes again. I am sure CL could also use volunteers to help improve the ref program if you have a plan. Seeing it from the inside is quite a different view.

I grouse about bad calls as much as the next guy, and occasionally yell at a ref, but errors are not only made in all leagues and levels, but all sports. I watched an college (American) football game yesterday, and even with all the officials they have to cover the field, I (and others) saw at least two calls that were entirely backward (wrong team blamed on the play) because the ref didn't get in position to see in time. I did see one CL league ref this fall who I thought was completely incompetent, but only one. The classic league game I watched yesterday was called flawlessly, for a change. Hopefully the CL we find the best officials it can get hold of and afford.
Since you are passionate about the games being called better, maybe you can do them some good. Good luck with your plan to get back in the game.

x

My son has played in classic for 6 seasons. His team has been fortunate travel all over the country and in some cases the world. We fell the referees here for the most part are an asset to the league. It has amazed me how parents can sit their fat arses on the sidline and complain. O am sure calls make up for themselves over the season.

If you do recertify, and you get hired, be sure and let us know which games you officiate so the parents on here can give you an honest critique of how you call the games you do. Would be interesting to see if you have fewer complaints than the average official out there.

Ibra wrote:Here we are with a few games to close the Fall half of Classic League 2010-2011 and the level of officiating is amazingly heading SOUTH. Linespeople who obviously do not know the detail in the rules of the game and centers who allow flagrant/violent play which encourages more flagrant/violent play and a severe lack of cards to follow. I know that someone from CCSAI will say that there have been more cards shown this year-vs.- last year..but the reality of that statement is that because you enable players to be violent, they becocme more violent, therefore more cards. I would think that $34.00 for a center and $23.00 for a linesman should provide better than a bunch of old men who most likely are officiating only for the money. I look at many and can feel fairly certain that they have never played or had their children play the beautiful game. The fact that many are influenced by the roar of the parent group or an irate coach is simply amazing and shows the lack of dedication, competance and professionalism that Classic League and the others Select Leagues have come to accept as passable. Each week as I stand at Richland and PHP watching other games as my BBs warm up, I often strike up a conversation with other random Dads who are watching these games and the conversation always turns to the lack of quality of officiating while we watch others at play. I would love to launch a WAKE UP call to CCSAI, but what other option do we have other than to accept mediocrity from the Select officials... Any club or independant team would question the supreme rule of the CCSAI officials would be punished for questioning the TALENT associated with the officiating assigned to competitive soccer in North Texas...
For the 2 or 3 officials each week who call the games with great care and accurancy, I applaud you...for those that are here to only draw a pay check, WE DO NOT NEED YOU.....The last games I called were in the late 80's. I will be updating/re-instating my credentials to start calling games. I would hope that there are others out there that would do the same...

Unfortunately, the officiating wasn't the first to drop.....even though the current membership will understandably vehemently disagree, Classic League long ago dropped in it's quality with the addition of a D3 division created to increase fee income and then with the silly club centered rules manipulation after that. The officiating naturally followed the drop in quality of the league. We now basically have Academy, Plano I and II and Arlington.

[quote="starbuck"]

Ibra wrote:Unfortunately, the officiating wasn't the first to drop.....even though the current membership will understandably vehemently disagree, Classic League long ago dropped in it's quality with the addition of a D3 division created to increase fee income and then with the silly club centered rules manipulation after that. The officiating naturally followed the drop in quality of the league. We now basically have Academy, Plano I and II and Arlington.

You might have a point that the number of games scheduled causes a demand for a large number of referees. I'm sure that it is difficult to find highly qualified referees at times. However, I disagree with the idea that the Classic League should not have a D3 or that it's presence is only to generate revenue. I personally feel that there are exceptional soccer players that play D2,D3, Plano, Arlington, and Rec. Not every family can afford some of the higher level teams. Some parents can't manage the travel to practices. Sometimes the division of team that a player plays on is determined by other factors other than talent.

The fact that soccer is growing is a good thing. We just need to encourage more people to become referees.

Ibra wrote:Here we are with a few games to close the Fall half of Classic League 2010-2011 and the level of officiating is amazingly heading SOUTH. Linespeople who obviously do not know the detail in the rules of the game and centers who allow flagrant/violent play which encourages more flagrant/violent play and a severe lack of cards to follow. I know that someone from CCSAI will say that there have been more cards shown this year-vs.- last year..but the reality of that statement is that because you enable players to be violent, they becocme more violent, therefore more cards. I would think that $34.00 for a center and $23.00 for a linesman should provide better than a bunch of old men who most likely are officiating only for the money. I look at many and can feel fairly certain that they have never played or had their children play the beautiful game. The fact that many are influenced by the roar of the parent group or an irate coach is simply amazing and shows the lack of dedication, competance and professionalism that Classic League and the others Select Leagues have come to accept as passable. Each week as I stand at Richland and PHP watching other games as my BBs warm up, I often strike up a conversation with other random Dads who are watching these games and the conversation always turns to the lack of quality of officiating while we watch others at play. I would love to launch a WAKE UP call to CCSAI, but what other option do we have other than to accept mediocrity from the Select officials... Any club or independant team would question the supreme rule of the CCSAI officials would be punished for questioning the TALENT associated with the officiating assigned to competitive soccer in North Texas...
For the 2 or 3 officials each week who call the games with great care and accurancy, I applaud you...for those that are here to only draw a pay check, WE DO NOT NEED YOU.....The last games I called were in the late 80's. I will be updating/re-instating my credentials to start calling games. I would hope that there are others out there that would do the same...

I did have to laugh at the comment about doing it for the money!
As for the quality, it is always a challenge to get referees for the entire weekend (high school is much worse). I should add that the coaches haven't had near the issue that this parent/ex-referee/soon to be certified referee has had. I look forward to his contribution to the league.Well...at least I think I do.

[quote="mrclean"]

starbuck wrote:

Ibra wrote:Unfortunately, the officiating wasn't the first to drop.....even though the current membership will understandably vehemently disagree, Classic League long ago dropped in it's quality with the addition of a D3 division created to increase fee income and then with the silly club centered rules manipulation after that. The officiating naturally followed the drop in quality of the league. We now basically have Academy, Plano I and II and Arlington.

You might have a point that the number of games scheduled causes a demand for a large number of referees. I'm sure that it is difficult to find highly qualified referees at times. However, I disagree with the idea that the Classic League should not have a D3 or that it's presence is only to generate revenue. I personally feel that there are exceptional soccer players that play D2,D3, Plano, Arlington, and Rec. Not every family can afford some of the higher level teams. Some parents can't manage the travel to practices. Sometimes the division of team that a player plays on is determined by other factors other than talent.

The fact that soccer is growing is a good thing. We just need to encourage more people to become referees.

Actually, I agree with you 100%. I would even add that many of the D1 teams are at the exceptional level of D2, D3, Plano, Arlington, and Rec. Not a bad thing. Just different than it was before.

off_the_woodwork wrote:Bravo on your decision to start reffing - as parents we are always looking for new people to yell at.

Seriously though, I don't believe you are eligible to ref in classic league if you have a son playing in the league - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Consider yourself corrected

R1 wrote:If you do recertify, and you get hired, be sure and let us know which games you officiate so the parents on here can give you an honest critique of how you call the games you do. Would be interesting to see if you have fewer complaints than the average official out there.

How could any parent that isnt an official or assessor give an honest critique worth anything?

Ibra, I'd imagine that if you try to listen to the guy sitting in his bag chair with his leg propped over the arm of the chair so he can fit that 40lbs of spare tire inside of it might not be able to help you out too much. especially from his position underneath that small shade tree with his team-colored glasses on. welcome to the club, though, but something tells me that most of those refs that you complained about will turn out to be better than you thought before.

twotone wrote:

R1 wrote:If you do recertify, and you get hired, be sure and let us know which games you officiate so the parents on here can give you an honest critique of how you call the games you do. Would be interesting to see if you have fewer complaints than the average official out there.

How could any parent that isnt an official or assessor give an honest critique worth anything?

Ibra, I'd imagine that if you try to listen to the guy sitting in his bag chair with his leg propped over the arm of the chair so he can fit that 40lbs of spare tire inside of it might not be able to help you out too much. especially from his position underneath that small shade tree with his team-colored glasses on. welcome to the club, though, but something tells me that most of those refs that you complained about will turn out to be better than you thought before.

lol....I think everyone else was trying NOT to describe the officials the way you did....but, gotta hand it you.......I think you described in detail what everyone else was trying NOT to say explicitly.....

Having been a referee and coached in classic I can honestly tell you there are more bad parents than there are either one of these two. You gain experience by refereeing all levels of matches. Most kids that are players have a tendency to let the players play on. Parents then moan that the referee allowed their little Johnny to become injured. Many young players that could be very talented referees don't want the aggrevation because why??? CLUELESS PARENTYS!!

off_the_woodwork wrote:Bravo on your decision to start reffing - as parents we are always looking for new people to yell at.

Seriously though, I don't believe you are eligible to ref in classic league if you have a son playing in the league - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. You just shouldn't ref your son's game.

soccerrus2 wrote:Having been a referee and coached in classic I can honestly tell you there are more bad parents than there are either one of these two. You gain experience by refereeing all levels of matches. Most kids that are players have a tendency to let the players play on. Parents then moan that the referee allowed their little Johnny to become injured. Many young players that could be very talented referees don't want the aggrevation because why??? CLUELESS PARENTYS!!

Let's not bring my parents into this.

clueless wrote:

soccerrus2 wrote:Having been a referee and coached in classic I can honestly tell you there are more bad parents than there are either one of these two. You gain experience by refereeing all levels of matches. Most kids that are players have a tendency to let the players play on. Parents then moan that the referee allowed their little Johnny to become injured. Many young players that could be very talented referees don't want the aggrevation because why??? CLUELESS PARENTYS!!

Let's not bring my parents into this.

lol!

FlatBack4 wrote:

off_the_woodwork wrote:Bravo on your decision to start reffing - as parents we are always looking for new people to yell at.

Seriously though, I don't believe you are eligible to ref in classic league if you have a son playing in the league - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. You just shouldn't ref your son's game.

I would think reffing any games in your son's age group / division would be a conflict of interest (real or perceived). I can see reffing other age groups and possibly same age group & different division.

How are refs evaluated? Does a supervisor come watch some of their games to see how they're doing?

I would say, after watching ~15 games this fall, that the CR has done a poor job in only one of those games. Most of the time, the calls and management of the game has been within reason. What I have observed to be consistently poor is the overly aggressive "get into the action" by the ARs. These folks seem to be somewhere else most of the time and looking for a reason to make a call. 8 times out of 10 when the ball touches the line they will call it out...looking for a reason to raise that flag. This past weekend, the same AR had 3 off-sides situations (involving both teams) and got everyone of them wrong. I understand you're going to miss one once in awhile, but missing 3 out of 3 is completely unacceptable. Off-sides is one of the most important things for those folks to monitor. If you can't get that right 90% of the time, go find another hobby.

whyme wrote:How are refs evaluated? Does a supervisor come watch some of their games to see how they're doing?

The league employs a number of state and national assessors to evaluate referees. They give constructive criticism to the refs and then let the assignor know what age groups a particular referee is qualified to referee.
When a coach fills out the proper form with regard to his/her concern over a referee, an assessor is assigned to evaluate that referee's next game. Although we hear disgruntled parents (usually very ignorant of the LOTG...and worse at the younger ages)complain, the coaches are generally quite happy with the refereeing. There are exceptions, of course, but most are pleased.
People should try to remember that as referees, particularly the younger ones, get experience, it is necessary to put them into higher level games so that they continue to mature. Mistakes are part of the process. I doubt many parents would say they are perfect and have never said or done something to their own children that they wish they couldn't take back.

RytMid wrote:I would say, after watching ~15 games this fall, that the CR has done a poor job in only one of those games. Most of the time, the calls and management of the game has been within reason. What I have observed to be consistently poor is the overly aggressive "get into the action" by the ARs. These folks seem to be somewhere else most of the time and looking for a reason to make a call. 8 times out of 10 when the ball touches the line they will call it out...looking for a reason to raise that flag. This past weekend, the same AR had 3 off-sides situations (involving both teams) and got everyone of them wrong. I understand you're going to miss one once in awhile, but missing 3 out of 3 is completely unacceptable. Off-sides is one of the most important things for those folks to monitor. If you can't get that right 90% of the time, go find another hobby.

It must have looked really odd you running up and down the sideline shadowing the AR to be in position to make thaose determinations.

Ibra wrote:Here we are with a few games to close the Fall half of Classic League 2010-2011 and the level of officiating is amazingly heading SOUTH. Linespeople who obviously do not know the detail in the rules of the game and centers who allow flagrant/violent play which encourages more flagrant/violent play and a severe lack of cards to follow. I know that someone from CCSAI will say that there have been more cards shown this year-vs.- last year..but the reality of that statement is that because you enable players to be violent, they becocme more violent, therefore more cards. I would think that $34.00 for a center and $23.00 for a linesman should provide better than a bunch of old men who most likely are officiating only for the money. I look at many and can feel fairly certain that they have never played or had their children play the beautiful game. The fact that many are influenced by the roar of the parent group or an irate coach is simply amazing and shows the lack of dedication, competance and professionalism that Classic League and the others Select Leagues have come to accept as passable. Each week as I stand at Richland and PHP watching other games as my BBs warm up, I often strike up a conversation with other random Dads who are watching these games and the conversation always turns to the lack of quality of officiating while we watch others at play. I would love to launch a WAKE UP call to CCSAI, but what other option do we have other than to accept mediocrity from the Select officials... Any club or independant team would question the supreme rule of the CCSAI officials would be punished for questioning the TALENT associated with the officiating assigned to competitive soccer in North Texas...
For the 2 or 3 officials each week who call the games with great care and accurancy, I applaud you...for those that are here to only draw a pay check, WE DO NOT NEED YOU.....The last games I called were in the late 80's. I will be updating/re-instating my credentials to start calling games. I would hope that there are others out there that would do the same...

IB,
I do nto imagine you got teh groundswell of support you thought you were going to get with your opening salvo.
The truth is, refereeing today is nto the same as when you were last qualified. I hear stories from my assignor that in the old days, you had to take a 2 week class, get 100% on the exam, study late by the light of yoru cast iron stove and walk 30 miles in the smow to your games.
The Laws and theri onterpretation ahs also changed.
By all means, take the class, do some U5 games then some U10 lines, and then you can join the ranks of the poor SOB's that are yelled at by the sidelines and coaches.
I also take exception to your statement that the "old men" are mostl;y in it for the money. Where did you get that? We are old men, and the legs , hearing, brain and eyesight are not what they used to be. Not all referees want to turn down assignments that might be out of their abilities, but they might still be the best choice from what is available that day.
So, after the class and a few games, why don't you report back and let us knwo what you think.
By the way, once you become a referee again (you will avhe to take the whole class, not recertify) it will be a conflict of the Code of Ethics to openly criticize a whole classes of referees.
R,
BTW, I was too tired from typing this to check my spelling, so hopefully I did not say anything too embarrassing.