let's see the birth certificate please

anselansel wrote:still working on that donkey fetish huh? donkeys anonymous can work wonders i hear....

I think there is another name for Donkey and Burro. "Jacka$$" seems to fit your personality. So, why not come out and just admit that you made a huge mistake in your assessment and retract your statement.

Bravo!

Retract my A$$, just because you don't have the nads to call a spade a spade doesn't me others don't. Nuttsack had to put his two cents in to apparently for whatever that's worth.

I've seen age cheating with kids from Sri Lanka, Ghana, mexico, and Nigeria, Egypt, and Brazil so it's not a mexican thing, it's an 'I can get away with it thing'. It doesn't affect how your true age bb plays, or the development of your bb, so it should not be a personal issue for parents. In fact some really great players will play up if they are dominating their age group, so it can be fun to see how you bb measures up to an older player. When they get to HS they will play against seniors, and if they are good enough to play in college they will play against older kids too.

THE Medical Assessment and Research Centre of the Federation of International Football, FIFA, says 65 percent of players who featured at the World U-17 World Cup championships between 2003 and 2007 are overage.

The startling revelation is contained in a report made available to SaturdayTribunesports on Magnetic Resonance Imaging, MIR, scans on the wrist of players selected randomly by FIFA.

''We discovered a higher rate of fusions in the scan of more than 65 percent of the players, meaning they are above 17'', says Professor Jiri Dvorak, the Chairman of F-MARC, who came up with the idea of using MRI after insinuations that some of the countries at this level cheat with the connivance of their respective federations.

SaturdayTribunesports reports that the question of age cheating reached an alarming stage two years ago in South Korea, during the 12th edition of the U-17 World Cup.




There's a lot of funny stuff from Ghana and Nigeria about age cheating, including a player who asked his wife's family to lower the age of their daughter, his wife (since he had lied about his age).

http://www.saharareporters.com/sports-page/adokiye-amiesimaka-fortune-chukwudi-age-scam-revelation-another-look

"Our cheating did not start today. It dates back to the 1980s when philanthropists like Alhaji Hamza of YSFON fame used to sponsor so-called youths to play in tournaments in Sweden and Brazil. And undoubtedly, we celebrated those cheats."

It has continued with the emergence of structured youth events like U-16, U-19, U-21 and U-23 tournaments organized by FIFA.

Age football has lost its followership because it is a scam in Nigeria. In such tournaments, we watch those who could not make it with their peers taking advantage of system loopholes to play with individuals in their children or their nephew’s age bracket
Recall the controversy which involved Victor Ikpeba when he was accused by the wife’s family of reducing their daughter’s age (when Victor’s wife died) so that she would not be older than him. Indeed, when Ikpeba played as an U-16 in Scotland 1989, he was already a student of Yaba Tech (college).

Agree with the comment made about worrying only about what's within your control. You can't control if others want to cheat, but you can control whether or not your son is part of a game in which you feel he is unsafe.

If he is at risk of injury then you need to decide whether to pull him out or file a complaint with the league.

If you are just upset because a player that may be older than him is playing against him and is scoring goals against him or preventing him from scoring, then you are in the league for the wrong reasons.

Academy leagues are for developmental purposes only. There is no trophy at the end. Tournaments do have trophies, but believe me, they won't mean squat in 2 years!

Playing with against an older, bigger and better player will only happen 1% of the time, so they can use this to their benefit the 99% of the time.

Forever Young-from an online article:

"The star of Nigeria's finalists at the 2001 Under-17 competition went on to become officially the third-youngest player to appear in the senior World Cup when he started the 0-0 draw with England in 2002. But that was as good as it got for Femi Opabunmi, who by 2005 was playing part-time football in the French lower leagues.

A trawl through the blogosphere makes for intriguing reading. "A friend of mine who once played in the Nigerian league told me his real age was 34 but his football age was 21," wrote Onmonya. "You can walk into any immigration office in Nigeria today, forge documents at the nearby business centre, change your name, place of birth, date of birth, pay 7,000-10,000 naira instead of the official price of about 5,500 for an international passport and within hours you have completed the whole process." A new passport, a new person – and if you are a footballer, a younger one.

A former employee of the British embassy in Nigeria told Observer Sport that when visa applicants complained to him about having their applications rejected, he would reply: "Well don't talk to me about it, I'm dead." He would respond to their looks of puzzlement by pointing to the wall behind him, on which hung his death certificate, purchased for a small fee from a Lagos supplier."

Some posters have said "don't worry about it" and I take the point, there is no use in an individual parent agonizing over it. On the other hand, if a league lets its rules slide, the league lose its integrity, and the loyalty to the league begins to slip. People want to get what they are being told they are getting. Most of the leagues in the metroplex are organized by age; so checking the ages of the players couldn't be more basic. Sure, I can say "well, that player may be a year or two older, but it won't hurt my kid to play against him, it will be a good experience." But I could also say "well that player may have gotten more yellow cards than allowed, and he ought to be sitting, but it won't hurt my kid to play against him." And I could say "well, that kid may actually be rostered on a different team than we are playing, but it won't hurt my kid to play against him." and so on and so on. And maybe it isn't hurting your kid, or maybe it is. Maybe your 11 year old kid will see that big strong fast 13 year old fly by him and the idea will be planted that "I guess I'm really not that good, why try?" I guess we have to ask whether we want a league in which the rules are clear and violations are met with specific consequences, or whether we just want a league where we let cheating slide because it takes effort to confront it. I was under the impression that the better leagues are supposed to be of the former kind. They certainly should be, given the amount of money that is being invested in them. I don't have much sympathy for someone who excuses breaking the rules because they want their kid to "get ahead" in some weird sense by competing against younger children. Tell them to hit the road, maybe their kid will learn that when mom and dad endorsed cheating and taking the easy way the result was bad. That may help the kid to really get ahead.

There is definitely a large amount of cheating that goes on with fake birth certificates from hispanic countries. Even pro hispanic baseball players do it to make baseball clubs think they are younger than they really are. Would you rather sign a 28 year old pitcher or a 36 year old pitcher.
A hispanic friend of mine is always telling me about the amount of fraud that goes on with fake birth certificates and it is mind boggling. His very own brother-n-law is a wanted fugitive that lives under a new identity and owns a business in Dallas thanks to fake documents from Mexico.
If you think it doesn't go in in Soccer, you are kidding yourself. And there is nothing racist about it. It is a fact.

FCdad wrote:There is definitely a large amount of cheating that goes on with fake birth certificates from hispanic countries. Even pro hispanic baseball players do it to make baseball clubs think they are younger than they really are. Would you rather sign a 28 year old pitcher or a 36 year old pitcher.
A hispanic friend of mine is always telling me about the amount of fraud that goes on with fake birth certificates and it is mind boggling. His very own brother-n-law is a wanted fugitive that lives under a new identity and owns a business in Dallas thanks to fake documents from Mexico.
If you think it doesn't go in in Soccer, you are kidding yourself. And there is nothing racist about it. It is a fact.

Be careful; a post like this might require Speedy to see if you need a Lawyer.

chriswhit wrote:Advice to the parents of the young ones....RELAX.

Cheaters (players/parents) will get theirs in the end...society just works out that way 99% of the time.

As for right now? Who cares? In the grand scheme of things, there are so many more important things than tryin to catch a 11 year old playing 10 year old soccer (or whatever it is)...like focusing on how you can help your own Johnny/Janie get better. Focus on what you control...not the things you don't. Youth soccer is a marathon, not a sprint...and no one remembers nor cares who won what last year, much less 3 years ago.

Dejen de estar de llorones y ensenele a GANAR en el campo a sus jugadores,hace como un mes alguien reclamo al equipo donde juega mi hijo, diciendo y asegurando que nuestros jugadores eran mayores de 14.En la categoria de mi hijo que es de U14 los jugadores la mayoria tienen 13 apenas empiezan a cumplir los 14, y afortunadamente para nosotros aunque nuestros hijos son de padres Mexicanos ellos son nacidos aqui y es verificable su edad, por otra parte yo no creo que el NTX este haciendo mal su trabajo, para su informacion, cuando hay un jugador que no es nacido aqui en USA, no nadamas se pide el acta de nacimento, sino tambien su record de vacunas y el reporte de la escuela, en esta categoria especificamente U14 es facil saber si son mayores o no, en el equipo de mi hijo todos estan en 8 grado, si fueran mayores ya estarian en high school o escuela para adultos, en fin no se vale que nos generalicen o senalen como tramposos nadamas porque no nos pueden ganar en el campo.Y al igual que otros yo tambien LOS RETO A TODOS AQUELLOS QUE DICEN QUE NUESTROS HIJOS HISPANOS SON "MAYORES" QUE LO COMPRUEBEN O MEJOR SE CALLEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One wierd thing is why the 'advanced' players don't play up. I had a player who was an exceptional player and had them play up a year+, they benefitted with a full scholarship to a top 10 d1 college in the ACC. And it wasn't due to being physically big, it was based on a higher skill level.


And for you non hispanics, below is a translation of the post above from Campeon.

Stop being crybabies and teach the WIN in the field to his players about a month ago someone claim to the computer that plays my son, saying and making sure that our players were over 14.The the category of my son who is U14 most players are 13 are just beginning to turn 14, and fortunately for us while our children are born to Mexican parents are here and they are to verify your age, on the other hand I do not think the NTX is doing a bad job for your information, when a player who is not born here in USA, not only offer calls for the birth certificate must, but also their immunization record and the school report, in this specific category U14 is easy to know if they are older or not In my son's team are all in 8th grade, if they were elderly and would be in high school or adult school, in order not fair to generalize us as cheaters or signs only offer because we can win in the campo.Y I also like other THE CHALLENGE TO ALL THOSE WHO SAY THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE HISPANICS "OLDER" OR BETTER MAKE SURE YOU ARE STREET !!!!!!!!!!

drsoccer wrote:One wierd thing is why the 'advanced' players don't play up. I had a player who was an exceptional player and had them play up a year+, they benefitted with a full scholarship to a top 10 d1 college in the ACC. And it wasn't due to being physically big, it was based on a higher skill level.


And for you non hispanics, below is a translation of the post above from Campeon.

Stop being crybabies and teach the WIN in the field to his players about a month ago someone claim to the computer that plays my son, saying and making sure that our players were over 14.The the category of my son who is U14 most players are 13 are just beginning to turn 14, and fortunately for us while our children are born to Mexican parents are here and they are to verify your age, on the other hand I do not think the NTX is doing a bad job for your information, when a player who is not born here in USA, not only offer calls for the birth certificate must, but also their immunization record and the school report, in this specific category U14 is easy to know if they are older or not In my son's team are all in 8th grade, if they were elderly and would be in high school or adult school, in order not fair to generalize us as cheaters or signs only offer because we can win in the campo.Y I also like other THE CHALLENGE TO ALL THOSE WHO SAY THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE HISPANICS "OLDER" OR BETTER MAKE SURE YOU ARE STREET !!!!!!!!!!

All I can say is this is a bunch of nonsense .

So...
Chinese gymnasts allegedly lie to be older.
Athletes from Mexico, various African and Central American countries allegedly lie to be younger.
But, the folks in the US only lie about their age to get alcohol.

95/98mom wrote:So...
But, the folks in the US only lie about their age to get alcohol.

And on dating websites!

Sorry for the long post, here goes…

Yes, I agree, there ARE kids of all types that are tall for their age. Just as there are kids that are shorter than the average height for a particular age group. Genetics, I think, most folks will agree are the key. None of us are geneticists or scientists so that's not our expertise for commentary.

There will be tall kids in the '01 age group. They come with the territory.

There are also SHORT kids in ’01. Height alone doesn’t make a player “better” than the rest. But it sure is a huge benefit in 1v1 physical encounters, crosses, and sprints. Bigger kids with the wrong intent are a risk to age-specific kids. Don’t kid yourselves.

But I believe we are all doing ourselves a disfavor in believing all "tall" kids are truly the legal age for a particular level.

Nor is it racism to question the authenticity of a legal document. It's also not racism to question whether or not cheating is occurring. What kind of life lesson is the over-age child learning by playing against younger kids?

I'm NOT going out on a limb by stating that the vast majority of tall kids are playing in the CORRECT age group. But I will say, that INDEED some small percentage kids have to be "over-age". All it takes is one or two overage players to make a difference in a game.

In today's PC environment, I have to believe some people fear being called racists if they question a child's age. So most folks remain mum. We don't need to do it publicly on the soccer sidelines, either. But there are proper channels through the league office to address specific concerns about specific players. Let's not paint an entire team wrongly. Focus on specifics; the specific kid, specific, coach, etc.

Just so I'm not labeled a racist. I'm Mexican. It's a known fact among the Mexican (Latino, Hispanic, or what ever the label flavor of the moment happens to be) community that some teams use over-age players. Heck, the Mexican parents complain out loud about Mexican teams, too. Proving cheating is a MUCH harder proposition. A birth certificate is a start, but it's not a 100% solution. Because a kid could be using a legitimate birth certificate of another person (brother, cousin, friend, acquaintance, etc.). There would have to be a crosscheck with school records and even a personal interview with the child. This is sensitive, because no adult would want an innocent kid to feel persecuted. IT IS a touchy and very uncomfortable subject, after all. The ESPN Copa, I believe, interviews kids deemed "suspicious" for their size… and catches cheaters, by interviewing them. Feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong.

Many Mexican parents, if asked, will freely opinion which teams are likely to be cheating. It's not the big clubs that receive the finger pointing. Again, opinions are NOT facts. Fact checking is the hard part.

Picture IDs would not prevent over-age players using fake documents from registering. I like the idea, though. Picture IDs would help prevent non-roster kids from sneaking into games. Random roster checks would immensely help prevent the easiest type of cheating.

In the big Hispanic oriented “Copa Al Dia” tournament the kids have to present themselves, IN PERSON, at check-in with documentation. They are also wrist-banded to prevent issues.

Coaches caught cheating should receive harsh punishment if they knowingly allow an over-age kid to play.

When I was a young kid, an acquaintance was coaching a game. He asked me to join the game I went to watch. The problem? I wasn't on the roster and I was older. It didn't feel right and I said so. Only my conscious kept me from joining the "fun" and dominating a bunch of "little kids". It would have been so simple to dress in the extra uniform available.

One last thought; don't forget the "older" kids that are shorter than average. They have perfect camouflage. Their age is hidden by their below-average height. I think these are the kids we all fail to "see". They are present, too.

Some adults still believe in the tooth fairy. It's the same ones that believe cheating doesn't occur in our soccer leagues. Don't lose sleep over it. But do say something (through proper channels) if you believe there's something shady occurring.

Here is a quote from a fellow Mexican from Mexico City with a bb playing ’03 academy and rec;



People who are altering or falsifying documents are committing a CRIME: FRAUD. SIMPLE AND EASY. F R A U D. It doesn't matter if it is for soccer purposes. They are altering a government official document. FRAUD!

It is a shame that many of Mexicans keep bringing all the irregular practices that "we" are used to in Mexico, it is sad, But it is more sad that there is NOBODY, NO AUTHORITY, NOTHING THAT CAN MAKE THESE TEAMS STOP THAT PLACE OUR KIDS AT RISK, where’s the integrity?

I saw exactly what you saying. BIG MEXICAN/HISPANIC/LATINO KIDS PLAYING RUDE WITH SMALL kids. AND MEXICAN PARENTS BEING MEAN AND AGGRESSIVE in "supporting" their kids.

I just do not get the equation: SMALL PARENTS=BIG KIDS. Plus the aggressive behavior in and out the fields.

I remember one day, my son was playing with the and I saw a HUGE kid on the other team. He was obviously Mexican/Hispanic/Latino. I took several pictures of him with different boys of our team and he was the tallest and the strongest. Besides his face was not the face (tiny-tender) of a 6-7 years old boy.

It is unbelievable that Mexicans are bigger than white Americans or even African Americans. Or it could be the perfect combination between tortillas and beans with hamburgers. In this case, we have to call researchers immediately.

It is just stupid to believe that based in three things:

1.- GENETICS (small parents with big kids)
2.-AVERAGE (Some Mexican/Hispanic teams by chance are a way bigger than other teams)
3.- COMMON SENSE.

I am Mexican so I cannot being accused for discrimination and all of that stuff. And I am not saying that this type of conduct is private for the Hispanics-Mexicans-Latinos or whatever the name is. It could happen in any race, but in this particular case it is not uncommon.



My last comment; I want to stress that I believe this is an exception, not the general rule. Let us not paint all Latino teams with the same paintbrush. ☺

You lost me at "sorry for the long post"

I like your post PG-Boy.
I hope there are officials from NTX soccer, SDL, and CAL who view this forum. I think the majority of us agree that there are illegal players out there. Action is required…..Like some have recommended, rosters should be check before every game for every team using standardized photo IDs that are issued upon cross checking birth certificates and report cards (or another secondary document). If the indoor soccer leagues can issue ID cards, why not NTX?
Like I have mentioned before, it’s not about winning games. It is about the safety of our kids. My suspicion is that some of these illegal players (Caucasian, Hispanic, Asians, whatever race) are 2 to 3 years older than our boy. With greater speed and agility along with the larger size, these illegal players increase the risk of injury for the younger boys (i.e. sprains, tears, concussion, and fractures). Soccer has its inherent risks. Let’s not increase the risks by subjecting our kids to illegal players….How about it officials?????Can we make it happen?

Northern Mid-Cities Soccer League (rec) requires photo roster for U14 and up. Last season It was photo IDs for U16 and up. Done through Gotsoccer; user friendly and easy to do.

And maybe One photo ID usable outdoor and indoor for a year could be achieved! That would be helpful.

Freeatlast wrote:And maybe One photo ID usable outdoor and indoor for a year could be achieved! That would be helpful.

Cheating is more prevalent in indoor. Couple of months ago, a U10 player was busted playing down an age group in a playoff game. Somehow, during the game a parent overheard a conversation that revealed the player's real age and reported him.

The facilities' staff immediately stopped the game and interviewed the player. Everyone pleaded ignorance. Needless to say, the team ended up forfeiting the playoff game; however, nobody was reprimanded. The team is playing once again in the same facility, the coach continues to preside over the team and the player was not suspended at all. Matter of fact, I saw him playing for one of the D1 '01 teams recently in outdoor.

Point is, these events transpired at one of the facilities which is affiliated with NTX and this player could have easily been reported via his NTX indoor ID but none of that occurred.

Problem here was that this kid is so tiny, it's hard to believe he's a U10 player.

Players are not punished, only the adults involved. You really want to punish the kid for having poor parents and role models?

my2cents wrote:Players are not punished, only the adults involved. You really want to punish the kid for having poor parents and role models?

I think the coach and player should be punished. The kid is just as wrong for wanting to play down where they are not supposed to.

This point is moot, and its been going on for yrs and yrs. Those that want to cheat will, and the admins don't want to confront the offenders who will base their age on a foreign BC (claims of racism). So we might want to move on and just let the kids play. If you are afraid that your little juan will get injured playing older players then ask your coach to take your son off the field when you play that big kid from plano with the doctored US birth cert.

SoccerNutz07 wrote:

my2cents wrote:Players are not punished, only the adults involved. You really want to punish the kid for having poor parents and role models?

I think the coach and player should be punished. The kid is just as wrong for wanting to play down where they are not supposed to.

I could not disagree more unless the kid is 18 or older.Youth activities are proven to be a huge deterent to youth crime, vandalism and drug abuse. You have a kid whose parent's values are questionable at best thus putting the kid at a huge disadvantage in life ahead. Now you want to take away something in his life that may teach him some values he can use off the field. No, punish those who taught , encouraged and approved of the poor decision.