Enough about seeding...you look like idiots.

by Durty-Tackle 8/4/2011, 4:50 pm

Every year I see a ton of parents wanting to duke it out over the whole bloody seeding thing. You have to admit to yourselves, the only reason you have this invalid argument is because you want to be part of a top ranked team…. because let's face it….D1 is the best and heaven forbid that you make D2, D3 or Plano. This is why the US sucks at soccer.

I read an amazing article that put things into perspective.

It said, "When a structure is based on the principle that in order to reach a higher competitive level you must win by promotion (D1), where do you think the emphasis will lie?

The emphasis will lie on winning.

And how do you win a game with a group of players who are ten years old? It is really quite simple.

You choose the players who are the biggest, strongest and fastest. You encourage your players to "boot" the ball down the field, and rely on the fact that the other team will not have the technical ability to get the ball out of their half, where your players will then use their physical advantage to overpower their opponents.

You do not focus on teaching those kids how to control a ball, how to turn with it, how to pass and receive a ball - because you don't have to. You win all the time with this strategy; since winning is seen as the only measure of success, your players' parents are happy because their little darlings are "successful".

Does this sound like some teams you have played…you bet. Is every team like this…no.

Wake up parents.

If you kid is on a "winning team" but is not progressing skill-wise year after year…shouldn't that be a red flag. Why is he is with the same coach? Is a winning team that important?

If your kids fell behind in math, you get a tutor. Same for soccer. If your kids can't do a hook turn, Cruyff Cut, or roll to scissors step over (go ahead and ask him tonight) - then what are you paying for?

If your kid has a true passion for the game, you are only doing your kid harm by staying with a team that will not produce technically sound players. If your BB is just having fun and he just want to stay with his friends…just let it ride and keep doing your thing.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to be on a winning team to produce top talent…because in a few years, your kids is going to look very technically challenged and all of this winning won't matter because his soccer IQ is going to be so low.

This same mentality has floated in the MLS. They take the strongest, fastest players and they seem to just bully their way into a goal. That’s not every MLS player, but a majority of them play the same way.

Just remember, your BB does not have to play for Andromeda, FCD, DT or Solar to become an awesome player. There are a ton of great coaches out there that you don’t know about, but you have to be willing to take that step out of your comfort zone. And it may require playing for a D2 or D3 team.

Good luck at QT…pre-hydrate. This goes for parents too.

by anselansel 8/4/2011, 4:52 pm

some people should not drink and post.......

by jstply 8/4/2011, 4:57 pm

anselansel wrote:some people should not drink and post.......

I agree with Durty. I think he hit the nail on the head.

by anselansel 8/4/2011, 5:02 pm

no, not really. This is a forum, to bs about things that sometimes don't matter, ignore things that do matter, gossip and twist peoples tails. some people never get the idea......

by DragonStryker 8/4/2011, 5:07 pm

jstply wrote:
anselansel wrote:some people should not drink and post.......

I agree with Durty. I think he hit the nail on the head.

Actually what he said but what most won't hear is that parents are accountable for making sure they kids learn the necessary skills to be successful. Coaches are part of the equation, but they aren't the final solution.

Tutors, just like in math. Skill coaches, who's job it is to teach skills.

And if you really want to get down to it... Skills Coach, Conditioning Coach, Strength Coach, Nutritionist, Sports Psychologist, Club Coach, Mentor (someone who's played a sport at the level the young man aspires to play, pro, collegiate, etc as every young man needs someone to look up to who can tell him what it really takes to get to that level because most of the parents here obviously don't have a clue). Can't afford all those people? Better start reading, because it then falls on the shoulders of the parents!

One last item... Playing against opponents better than you will lead to faster improvement that playing against opponents of lesser skill/speed/size/etc than you. So I'd push toward playing in D1 as well because once you've learned the skills to get past the biggest/fastest/strongest kids, getting past everyone else will seem substantially easier, especially once you've learned to play at the faster pace of the game as its played in D1.

by ojo 8/4/2011, 5:20 pm

[quote="DragonStryker"][quote="jstply"][quote="anselansel"]some people should not drink and post.......[/quote]

I agree with Durty. I think he hit the nail on the head.[/quote]

Actually what he said but what most won't hear is that parents are accountable for making sure they kids learn the necessary skills to be successful. Coaches are part of the equation, but they aren't the final solution.

Tutors, just like in math. Skill coaches, who's job it is to teach skills.

And if you really want to get down to it... Skills Coach, Conditioning Coach, Strength Coach, Nutritionist, Sports Psychologist, Club Coach, Mentor (someone who's played a sport at the level the young man aspires to play, pro, collegiate, etc as every young man needs someone to look up to who can tell him what it really takes to get to that level because most of the parents here obviously don't have a clue). Can't afford all those people? Better start reading, because it then falls on the shoulders of the parents!

One last item... Playing against opponents better than you will lead to faster improvement that playing against opponents of lesser skill/speed/size/etc than you. So I'd push toward playing in D1 as well because once you've learned the skills to get past the biggest/fastest/strongest kids, getting past everyone else will seem substantially easier, especially once you've learned to play at the faster pace of the game as its played in D1.[/quote]

The first thing you have to change in the USA soccer is the concept of "pay to play" this is ridiculous. In brazil, mexico, argentina soccer is free and you can play in any field for free... And parents play with their bbs.

by Durty-Tackle 8/4/2011, 5:22 pm

anselansel wrote:some people should not drink and post.......

It's QT pre-hydration.

by DragonStryker 8/4/2011, 6:16 pm

ojo wrote:The first thing you have to change in the USA soccer is the concept of "pay to play" this is ridiculous. In brazil, mexico, argentina soccer is free and you can play in any field for free... And parents play with their bbs.

So it's US Soccer's responsibility to provide a local park for your child to play soccer?

Don't know where you live but I saw a game just as you describe this past Saturday at Carpenter Park in Arlington. Kids as young as probably 10 playing with teens, young adults, and older adults. Field set up with small goals. Even told my 96 that games like that were how young kids developed some of the skills he saw on the field. was great to see.

That's not US Soccer's responsibility. It's YOUR responsibility as a parent. There are parks all around this country. They exist in every county and city. Organize the game, stop blaming it on others. As I said, it's a parents responsibility, no one else is going to do it for you.

by ojo 8/4/2011, 7:01 pm

No wonder why you posted here DIdiot... You don't get it.

by my2cents 8/4/2011, 11:07 pm

Durty has got it. At this age league and division should not even be on the list. Skill development is number one. Tactical knowledge of all positions number two. Yes that means teaching the BFS forward how to play D. By the time they hit U15-16 most of the talented players and teams will have filtered to D1. Rosters of all teams will be almost completely different and BFS will be irrelevant without skills. Ojo, why concentrate on beating BFS when it wont matter by U15. The scary player then wont be the one relying on his size or speed. The scary one then will be the one with mad skills. Might as well learn how to beat that because it will never be irrelevant.

by ojo 8/5/2011, 6:02 am

[quote="my2cents"]Durty has got it. At this age league and division should not even be on the list. Skill development is number one. Tactical knowledge of all positions number two. Yes that means teaching the BFS forward how to play D. By the time they hit U15-16 most of the talented players and teams will have filtered to D1. Rosters of all teams will be almost completely different and BFS will be irrelevant without skills. Ojo, why concentrate on beating BFS when it wont matter by U15. The scary player then wont be the one relying on his size or speed. The scary one then will be the one with mad skills. Might as well learn how to beat that because it will never be irrelevant.[/quote]

I agree, my point is that we as parents have to do more. My bb learns the basics at practice or soccer camps, but it's up to me as a parent to make time for me and him to master them. In other countries you see this over and over. Look at the Hispanic leagues at the metroplex and you will findout that all the family plays soccer, including the parents, and I think that makes a big diference on the bbs development. Soccer is much more than just going to practice twice a week...

by DragonStryker 8/5/2011, 6:43 am

DragonStryker wrote:
ojo wrote:The first thing you have to change in the USA soccer is the concept of "pay to play" this is ridiculous. In brazil, mexico, argentina soccer is free and you can play in any field for free... And parents play with their bbs.

So it's US Soccer's responsibility to provide a local park for your child to play soccer?

Don't know where you live but I saw a game just as you describe this past Saturday at Carpenter Park in Arlington. Kids as young as probably 10 playing with teens, young adults, and older adults. Field set up with small goals. Even told my 96 that games like that were how young kids developed some of the skills he saw on the field. was great to see.

That's not US Soccer's responsibility. It's YOUR responsibility as a parent. There are parks all around this country. They exist in every county and city. Organize the game, stop blaming it on others. As I said, it's a parents responsibility, no one else is going to do it for you.

To which Ojo replied:

ojo wrote:No wonder why you posted here DIdiot... You don't get it.

And then subsequently ojo posted:

ojo wrote:
my2cents wrote:Durty has got it. At this age league and division should not even be on the list. Skill development is number one. Tactical knowledge of all positions number two. Yes that means teaching the BFS forward how to play D. By the time they hit U15-16 most of the talented players and teams will have filtered to D1. Rosters of all teams will be almost completely different and BFS will be irrelevant without skills. Ojo, why concentrate on beating BFS when it wont matter by U15. The scary player then wont be the one relying on his size or speed. The scary one then will be the one with mad skills. Might as well learn how to beat that because it will never be irrelevant.

I agree, my point is that we as parents have to do more. My bb learns the basics at practice or soccer camps, but it's up to me as a parent to make time for me and him to master them. In other countries you see this over and over. Look at the Hispanic leagues at the metroplex and you will findout that all the family plays soccer, including the parents, and I think that makes a big diference on the bbs development. Soccer is much more than just going to practice twice a week...

So which is it? I get called an idiot for saying its our job as parents, not US Soccer. Then you subsequently say the exact same thing.

So who's responsibility is it? You're talking in circles. Either that, or your ability to comprehend the English language is sorely lacking.

Parents have to take responsibility for their kids and stop expecting others to do everything for them, anyone that believes otherwise is somewhat delusional. You can't purchase everything, though some certainly try. Some things are best taught by a father, older brother, etc to a 5 to 7 year old who has a developing love of the game.

Club soccer has a place, but parents have an equally important role.

by wolverine 8/5/2011, 10:57 am

[quote="Durty-Tackle"]Every year I see a ton of parents wanting to duke it out over the whole bloody seeding thing. You have to admit to yourselves, the only reason you have this invalid argument is because you want to be part of a top ranked team…. because let's face it….D1 is the best and heaven forbid that you make D2, D3 or Plano. This is why the US sucks at soccer.

I have to disagree with you Duty. What you are seeing every year is parents getting excited about the fact that after several years of academy soccer their child finally gets a chance to play select soccer and compete in a tournament that actually means something (entry into one of the country's best youth soccer leagues).

This is a forum to talk about anything and everything. Posters should be free from criticism because of their topic of choice or position. Otherwise why participate in a forum if we all have to agree on the topic and then agree to agree on that topic? THAT MY FRIEND IS IDIOTIC not the people voicing their opinions.

I propose to you that YOU are out-of-line.

With regard to your comments about soccer in America. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this argument both in the "real world" and on this forum. You are of course free to bring it up again b/c that is the freedom you should enjoy as a forum poster. My response to you is that American culture is about winning! It is ingrained in the fabric of what we are as Americans. The very essence of this country's evolution is based on perserverance overachievement and victory (to wit: The American Revolution).

American sports culture is based on winning. It's what drives young athletes to dream. Winning inspires them to set every else aside and focus on what has to be done to be the very best. Practice. Sacrifice. Commitment. Patience. Defeat. Percerverance. And ultimately, victory! These are the same elements that drive parents to commit to ungodly amount of hours driving their young athletes to practice, games, camps, and skills lessons. These elements also drive parents to spend unreasonable amounts of money for soccer clubs, travel for tournaments, training, camps, and uniforms every two years.

I understand that soccer is a world sport. It's a sport first played in either Japan or Mesoamerica although England takes credit for creating the modern day game. I understand that "The World" trains differently. The focus is on developing the player as opposed to developing the team. And I agree that "The World" has it right.

But, this is America. We have our own way of doing things and for the most part we're damn good at what we do. I for one understand the difficiencies in American soccer. I also understand that our culture influences and perpetuates these deficiencies. It will never change. Americans will always be inspired by winning.

Why play if at the end of the game no one loses and no one wins?

-The Wolf

by The German 8/5/2011, 11:30 am

Does that mean that the rest of the world doesn't have the desire to win their games? Wink

by ojo 8/5/2011, 11:33 am

[quote="wolverine"][quote="Durty-Tackle"]But, this is America. We have our own way of doing things and for the most part we're damn good at what we do. I for one understand the difficiencies in American soccer. I also understand that our culture influences and perpetuates these deficiencies. It will never change. Americans will always be inspired by winning.

Why play if at the end of the game no one loses and no one wins?

-The Wolf[/quote]

Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry

by wolverine 8/5/2011, 11:38 am

[quote="ojo"]

wolverine wrote:
Durty-Tackle wrote:But, this is America. We have our own way of doing things and for the most part we're damn good at what we do. I for one understand the difficiencies in American soccer. I also understand that our culture influences and perpetuates these deficiencies. It will never change. Americans will always be inspired by winning.

Why play if at the end of the game no one loses and no one wins?

-The Wolf

Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry

Like I said, I get that. But are you saying that the concept of "playing to develop not to win" applies to all sports or just soccer?

by DragonStryker 8/5/2011, 11:40 am

[quote="ojo"]

wolverine wrote:
Durty-Tackle wrote:But, this is America. We have our own way of doing things and for the most part we're damn good at what we do. I for one understand the difficiencies in American soccer. I also understand that our culture influences and perpetuates these deficiencies. It will never change. Americans will always be inspired by winning.

Why play if at the end of the game no one loses and no one wins?

-The Wolf

Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry

Are they mutually exclusive?

by ojo 8/5/2011, 12:34 pm

[quote="DragonStryker"][quote="ojo"][quote="wolverine"][quote="Durty-Tackle"]But, this is America. We have our own way of doing things and for the most part we're damn good at what we do. I for one understand the difficiencies in American soccer. I also understand that our culture influences and perpetuates these deficiencies. It will never change. Americans will always be inspired by winning.

Why play if at the end of the game no one loses and no one wins?

-The Wolf[/quote]

Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry[/quote]

Are they mutually exclusive?[/quote]

Who? Wolverine and Durty-Tackle??? I do not know them… but they sound Americans :lol:

by DragonStryker 8/5/2011, 12:38 pm

ojo wrote:Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry

I'll make this simple for you...

Are the two concepts "Playing to win" and "Playing to Develop" mutually exclusive in your mind?

by ojo 8/5/2011, 1:24 pm

[quote="DragonStryker"][quote="ojo"]Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry[/quote]

I'll make this simple for you...

Are the two concepts "Playing to win" and "Playing to Develop" mutually exclusive in your mind?[/quote]

WOW thaks for the clarification ! Let me make it simple for you now... I T W A S A J O K E
Did you get it now?

Now seriously – I think that wining is not the most important thing at this age; if the bbs have a good game, and they do their best, would you care if they win or not?

by DragonStryker 8/5/2011, 1:40 pm

ojo wrote:
DragonStryker wrote:
ojo wrote:Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry

I'll make this simple for you...

Are the two concepts "Playing to win" and "Playing to Develop" mutually exclusive in your mind?

WOW thaks for the clarification ! Let me make it simple for you now... I T W A S A J O K E
Did you get it now?

Now seriously – I think that wining is not the most important thing at this age; if the bbs have a good game, and they do their best, would you care if they win or not?

No, but he cares very deeply about it. My concerns lie with the effort put forth in each game/practice.

by ntxdad 8/5/2011, 1:51 pm

...
And if you really want to get down to it... Skills Coach, Conditioning Coach, Strength Coach, Nutritionist, Sports Psychologist, Club Coach, Mentor...

We are talking about elementary age boys here. Realistically, none of these boys will play pro ball or on the World Cup stage. A few will play college. This is supposed to be fun. I know its not rec and we are all here because there is a lot to be learned and fun had in competitive soccer.

But if you have even two of the things mentioned above for your 10 yr old, you should take a long hard look at yourself. I cetainly don't want my son to be bragging about a U10 championship when he is my age. I want him to remember riding bikes with friends, camping, vacations, all the other things a well-balanced 10 yr old kid does...along with his soccer experience.

My point is that even if your kid says he wants a conditioning coach and that he thinks meeting with a sports shrink is helping his game...he is lying! He is only doing it because you want him to.

I may be in the minority on this board, but I say let your kid be a kid. Soccer should not be his life. If it is, you are setting him up for a huge fall. My son is good, not great but still competitive. He goes to all practices and a couple of camps/summer. But he also hangs out with friends, goes camping, fences, eats junk food, and even plays video games!

Just my two cents. Let the rebuttals commence.

by DragonStryker 8/5/2011, 2:03 pm

You're absolutely correct ntxdad and my comment was and is directed to the 0.001% that have a a child with the ability and desire to play at the next level. Most don't and quite frankly, even a lot that do aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to help him reach those levels. That holds true across most sports, it's not simply limited to soccer.

by cccaptain 8/5/2011, 2:38 pm

ntxdad wrote:
...
And if you really want to get down to it... Skills Coach, Conditioning Coach, Strength Coach, Nutritionist, Sports Psychologist, Club Coach, Mentor...

We are talking about elementary age boys here. Realistically, none of these boys will play pro ball or on the World Cup stage. A few will play college. This is supposed to be fun. I know its not rec and we are all here because there is a lot to be learned and fun had in competitive soccer.

But if you have even two of the things mentioned above for your 10 yr old, you should take a long hard look at yourself. I cetainly don't want my son to be bragging about a U10 championship when he is my age. I want him to remember riding bikes with friends, camping, vacations, all the other things a well-balanced 10 yr old kid does...along with his soccer experience.

My point is that even if your kid says he wants a conditioning coach and that he thinks meeting with a sports shrink is helping his game...he is lying! He is only doing it because you want him to.

I may be in the minority on this board, but I say let your kid be a kid. Soccer should not be his life. If it is, you are setting him up for a huge fall. My son is good, not great but still competitive. He goes to all practices and a couple of camps/summer. But he also hangs out with friends, goes camping, fences, eats junk food, and even plays video games!

Just my two cents. Let the rebuttals commence.

Well. Yes and no. I did reach Pro-Level and sure it helped that my life has been Soccer since I was 5 years old. You are right in saying that you want your kids to remember bikes, friends, camping... but these are not necessarily exclusive with Soccer. Yes, my childhood memories include all those you mentioned, but curiously most are related to Soccer.

Soccer at this age is 100% formative, but friendship, honor, discipline, fun, adventure, pride, moral, obedience, accountability, creativity, commitment, family, respect can all be incorporated in the process....... that’s the beauty of a team-sport!

There is nothing wrong with promoting a sport/discipline formally at this age; I do believe though, one has to keep reality checked at all times and strongly promote that habit with the kids, too.

by soccerrus2 8/5/2011, 3:54 pm

DragonStryker wrote:
ojo wrote:Boys should be playing to Develop not to Win… sorry

I'll make this simple for you...

Are the two concepts "Playing to win" and "Playing to Develop" mutually exclusive in your mind?

Or that smaller independent clubs develope better than larger clubs