USSDA to Launch Under-13/14 Program in Fall 2013

Discuss....

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Development-Academy/2012/08/Development-Academy-to-Launch-U13-U14-Program-in-Fall-of-2013.aspx

Not surprising from what we have heard the last two years, but I think it is a terrible idea. I am sure nationwide, they will be able to identify 30 or 40 players for the national pool, but they would have had those ID'd ahead of time anyhow. This is alot of pressure for some young players many of whom are not ready emotionally for this level of pressure and expectations - IMO.

The USSDA needs to set a curriculum that ensures a minumum standard level of training for the players. The premise of more training and fewer games in a fun environment sounds good, but each club is focused on winning all their games so they can compete for a National Championship at every age level.

There are also varying degrees of tactical training within the clubs. Hard to believe that in the DA system, there are still dad coaches paving the way for their own child at the expense of everyone else. Seems there should be some type of general tactical/technical training that all players in the system receive that is consistent with the expectations of the National Team.

$

pre academy is heading the wrong way, maybe this will be better. Not sure why we think American kids can't handle this level of pressure. By 13 they are definitely identified and training in europe and south america. Don't know if this will be the answer and it's unclear how that will work with or effect Pre Academy but hell can't really be worse.

go99 wrote:pre academy is heading the wrong way, maybe this will be better. Not sure why we think American kids can't handle this level of pressure. By 13 they are definitely identified and training in europe and south america. Don't know if this will be the answer and it's unclear how that will work with or effect Pre Academy but hell can't really be worse.

What will happen to Pre Academy U13 & U14, now they have DA 13/14?

different governing bodies so pre academy doesn't neccesarily go away.

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

The DA is ussoccer's version of 'class warfare'. Yes, I'm sure that the DA clubs may have "access" to roughly 75% (just a guess) of the available talent pool.

But the problem is there are roughly 25 states that do not have DA member clubs within their borders.

Just in region 3, there are several states that don't have DA clubs. Arkansas, Oklahoma, La, MS and Tennessee.

And let's not forget that even states (like Texas and Florida especially) there are large areas that have players 'good enough" but the travel/logistics prevent access.

There are players out there, serious, committed and talented players that would be willing to train 4, 5 times a week with their 'conventional' clubs. It just isn't available.

Those of you living in DFW should consider yourselves very fortunate.

So, if the idea is to cast a bigger net, this isn't the most efficient way to do it. Just more convenient for those already in the 'club'.

If ussoccer really is serious about raising the standard for all players, then they need to mandate their development philosophies to all clubs. Not just the fortunate '78'.

As an aside, I think this country is just too big to be able to identify the top players at 13 or 14 anyway. The youth national teams overwhelmingly are made up of players that are simply more 'physically developed' instead of those that are technically and tactically sound.

Then there's the poltics involved in the process. How many players come from smaller, nonDA memeber clubs?

The current trend indicates very, very few.

Also, I understand that a certain amount of travel is a necessary evil with elite level soccer.

But driving/flying 500-1,000 miles (or more in some cases) to play a league game isn't going to develop better players. It arguably may be necessary for that with u17/18 players.

certainly not though 13-16 yr olds.

If they really need the "competition" then it is much more efficient for U13/14 etc. teams to play the best competition locally available against older teams.

There was a time when the U17 Nats played exhibition games against college teams. Generally they lost but the games forced these 15/16/17 yr olds to play out of their comfort zone. Relying on their technical and tactical skills to compete.

If they really wanted to do it right, they would divide the country up into small 'districts' and bring the advanced players in for specialized training. (Sort of like the concept behind ODP...except much larger in scope and done correctly.)

As opposed to relying on a handful of clubs to develop players. (We don't have enough 'pro' clubs with full blown residency programs to accomodate the need.)

It all comes down to yet another money grab..

It is impossible to mandate anything to the clubs. US soccer has put out recommendations that have then just been ignored by clubs. Parents on this very board have screamed don't change our soccer we just want to win now. Why develop because we wont be playing by the time we are 15. This is that solution. Leave regular soccer alone and start a new league for those that do want to develope. Now I do think they need to exert greater control over the clubs in the academy (i am looking at you Texans ) As far as the league goes it's supposed to be about the training not the games. The one problem I see is that if I take the same coach that has sucked with the same BS soccer he did before and move him into the AL all I really get is the same BS product I had before. BTW a club in Tulsa OK is attatched to the Kansas city team and their AL team.

Does any here think they will stop expanding now that they've hit the Under-13/14 division? (I don't.) How long will it be before this expands to Under-11/12?

When all is said and done, how young do you think they'll go? Under-9/10? Or will they eventually get all the way into Under-8?

Laimport wrote:The DA is ussoccer's version of 'class warfare'. Yes, I'm sure that the DA clubs may have "access" to roughly 75% (just a guess) of the available talent pool.

But the problem is there are roughly 25 states that do not have DA member clubs within their borders.

Just in region 3, there are several states that don't have DA clubs. Arkansas, Oklahoma, La, MS and Tennessee.

And let's not forget that even states (like Texas and Florida especially) there are large areas that have players 'good enough" but the travel/logistics prevent access.

There are players out there, serious, committed and talented players that would be willing to train 4, 5 times a week with their 'conventional' clubs. It just isn't available.

Those of you living in DFW should consider yourselves very fortunate.

So, if the idea is to cast a bigger net, this isn't the most efficient way to do it. Just more convenient for those already in the 'club'.

If ussoccer really is serious about raising the standard for all players, then they need to mandate their development philosophies to all clubs. Not just the fortunate '78'.

As an aside, I think this country is just too big to be able to identify the top players at 13 or 14 anyway. The youth national teams overwhelmingly are made up of players that are simply more 'physically developed' instead of those that are technically and tactically sound.

Then there's the poltics involved in the process. How many players come from smaller, nonDA memeber clubs?

The current trend indicates very, very few.

Also, I understand that a certain amount of travel is a necessary evil with elite level soccer.

But driving/flying 500-1,000 miles (or more in some cases) to play a league game isn't going to develop better players. It arguably may be necessary for that with u17/18 players.

certainly not though 13-16 yr olds.

If they really need the "competition" then it is much more efficient for U13/14 etc. teams to play the best competition locally available against older teams.

There was a time when the U17 Nats played exhibition games against college teams. Generally they lost but the games forced these 15/16/17 yr olds to play out of their comfort zone. Relying on their technical and tactical skills to compete.

If they really wanted to do it right, they would divide the country up into small 'districts' and bring the advanced players in for specialized training. (Sort of like the concept behind ODP...except much larger in scope and done correctly.)

As opposed to relying on a handful of clubs to develop players. (We don't have enough 'pro' clubs with full blown residency programs to accomodate the need.)

It all comes down to yet another money grab..

I was reading an interesting article the other day about how Ajax academy in Europe find talent. They have scouts go out to local youth games and spot 8,9 and 10 year old kids. They then send them a letter in the mail asking them to come try out at the teams facility. From there, they select kids for the Academy. But, the kids still live at home and have to be from within about 30 miles or so of the facility.

I am not sure there is a perfect for the US. We are almost too big to find all the kids that may live in the smaller communities. Unfortunately, if you want to play elite soccer and get noticed, you will probably have to live near or be a part of one of the clubs in the future. Look at what Clint Dempsey did driving from Nacadoches 3 hours round trip for the Texas Longhorns and then DT. Also look at what elite gymnast do to further their training. Most of them move to Houston or up here to Plano with Nastia Lukins dad to train and live. If your kid is that good, the parents often make life changing moves.

It stinks for the kids that live in the small areas and the parents can't move, but not sure there is a solution.

indyfc wrote:

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

FCD is free. The others waive coaching fees but the travel expenses run 3-5k. Not at all free. In theory it sounds good. In reality the players labeled as developement players see 0 to 8-9 games. The top 14 or so play all the time. That is winning over development. The different clubs have totally diffrent goals. Take the primary goals of the four local DA programs. FCD is looking to develop for the pro team. Solar and DT have phenomenal college placement. Andro is trying to hang in there and be considered a big four of the area. FCD got in to pipe line to the first team. The others got in to not lose market share. In many areas outside NTX , North Carolina for example, DA is considered a joke by the top players. ODP still is the top level. It is all about competing for the paying customer. They are businesses.

As far as getting the top players into the system early..... It will be no diffrent then D1 CL. 50% to 75% of those on the team at U11 will be replaced by U16. They want them in earlier to eliminate another competitor- high school athletics. Now they only forbid it at the older ages after they have already gotten a taste. Drop the age and you lose less because they never started in the first place. It may be have value as offering a different venue to the paying customer but it will only further dilute the talent to more venues as they compete for players.
Good post Laimport

interesting point $0.02!

my2cents wrote:

indyfc wrote:

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

FCD is free. The others waive coaching fees but the travel expenses run 3-5k. Not at all free. In theory it sounds good. In reality the players labeled as developement players see 0 to 8-9 games. The top 14 or so play all the time. That is winning over development. The different clubs have totally diffrent goals. Take the primary goals of the four local DA programs. FCD is looking to develop for the pro team. Solar and DT have phenomenal college placement. Andro is trying to hang in there and be considered a big four of the area. FCD got in to pipe line to the first team. The others got in to not lose market share. In many areas outside NTX , North Carolina for example, DA is considered a joke by the top players. ODP still is the top level. It is all about competing for the paying customer. They are businesses.

As far as getting the top players into the system early..... It will be no diffrent then D1 CL. 50% to 75% of those on the team at U11 will be replaced by U16. They want them in earlier to eliminate another competitor- high school athletics. Now they only forbid it at the older ages after they have already gotten a taste. Drop the age and you lose less because they never started in the first place. It may be have value as offering a different venue to the paying customer but it will only further dilute the talent to more venues as they compete for players.
Good post Laimport

Why would DA be considered a joke in other areas of the Country if US Soccer with the backing of Jurgen Klinsman are pushing this and arguably that is where they will get their best players from? Do those folks still think ODP will be a route for players to make the National Team? It sounds like they (US SOCCER) are putting the nails in the coffin of ODP.

I could be wrong , but just wondering.

go99 wrote:different governing bodies so pre academy doesn't neccesarily go away.

Interesting...Why would someone want to play Pre Academy U 13 or U 14, when they can play DA 13/14?

From what I've seen ODP is simply a vehicle for players looking to get into 2nd and 3rd tier college programs. It is still a vehicle for players from rural areas/small states.

I think it is safe to say that the overall quality of DA teams varies greatly.

NTX teams tend to do pretty well. From a competitive standpoint. (Developmentally? Who knows.)Probably CL does a decent job of "filtering" the better (more advanced) players.

The MLS DA teams are starting to do well. Where they have a decent infrastructure in place.

After the u13/14 birth year groups, ODP tends to lose its luster.

The important thing to keep in mind is that no single venue or program captures ALL the best players.

I understand about making "sacrifices" for my son's passion for the game. But most people don't pick up and move just for soccer.

Because of our culture's drive for 'results' I think expanding DA below U15 is a bad idea.

Up until u14/15 the single most important factor is development of fundamental, sound technique. A good soccer brain helps but it really is about the technique. (That's the approach every other footballing nation takes.)

So, it would seem logical that putting a 10/11 yr old into a high pressure, promotion/relegation and even a fullsided game environment does more harm than good.

So forming teams at u11 to compete in a results focused environment is actually a detriment.

They are still in skill acquisition mode.

Putting the kids into an enhanced program is one thing, but emphasizing high level competition and results above all else is a waste.

The purpose of an "academy" is to teach. Not to try to mimic the adult professional game in order to 'win now'. That said, winning and development aren't always mutually exclusive.

But in most cases winning involves taking short cuts. Because it's easier than teaching the right way.

The cons outweigh the pros by a wide margin. Players are forced to "play within themselves" and prematurely become 'role players' and pigeonholed into positions.

But I'm sure there will be plenty of parents with checkbooks in hand.

"Learn to play first. Learn to win later."

Gatorz wrote:

my2cents wrote:

indyfc wrote:

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

FCD is free. The others waive coaching fees but the travel expenses run 3-5k. Not at all free. In theory it sounds good. In reality the players labeled as developement players see 0 to 8-9 games. The top 14 or so play all the time. That is winning over development. The different clubs have totally diffrent goals. Take the primary goals of the four local DA programs. FCD is looking to develop for the pro team. Solar and DT have phenomenal college placement. Andro is trying to hang in there and be considered a big four of the area. FCD got in to pipe line to the first team. The others got in to not lose market share. In many areas outside NTX , North Carolina for example, DA is considered a joke by the top players. ODP still is the top level. It is all about competing for the paying customer. They are businesses.

As far as getting the top players into the system early..... It will be no diffrent then D1 CL. 50% to 75% of those on the team at U11 will be replaced by U16. They want them in earlier to eliminate another competitor- high school athletics. Now they only forbid it at the older ages after they have already gotten a taste. Drop the age and you lose less because they never started in the first place. It may be have value as offering a different venue to the paying customer but it will only further dilute the talent to more venues as they compete for players.
Good post Laimport

Why would DA be considered a joke in other areas of the Country if US Soccer with the backing of Jurgen Klinsman are pushing this and arguably that is where they will get their best players from? Do those folks still think ODP will be a route for players to make the National Team? It sounds like they (US SOCCER) are putting the nails in the coffin of ODP.

I could be wrong , but just wondering.

ODP is set up as a much better model. The model and the way that system was designed just makes much better sense. It's the execution here in NTX (and other parts I'm sure)... that's the reason why it has failed. (It costs too much and that's in addition to what you're already spending elsewhere.)

bigtex75081 wrote:

Gatorz wrote:

my2cents wrote:

indyfc wrote:

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

FCD is free. The others waive coaching fees but the travel expenses run 3-5k. Not at all free. In theory it sounds good. In reality the players labeled as developement players see 0 to 8-9 games. The top 14 or so play all the time. That is winning over development. The different clubs have totally diffrent goals. Take the primary goals of the four local DA programs. FCD is looking to develop for the pro team. Solar and DT have phenomenal college placement. Andro is trying to hang in there and be considered a big four of the area. FCD got in to pipe line to the first team. The others got in to not lose market share. In many areas outside NTX , North Carolina for example, DA is considered a joke by the top players. ODP still is the top level. It is all about competing for the paying customer. They are businesses.

As far as getting the top players into the system early..... It will be no diffrent then D1 CL. 50% to 75% of those on the team at U11 will be replaced by U16. They want them in earlier to eliminate another competitor- high school athletics. Now they only forbid it at the older ages after they have already gotten a taste. Drop the age and you lose less because they never started in the first place. It may be have value as offering a different venue to the paying customer but it will only further dilute the talent to more venues as they compete for players.
Good post Laimport

Why would DA be considered a joke in other areas of the Country if US Soccer with the backing of Jurgen Klinsman are pushing this and arguably that is where they will get their best players from? Do those folks still think ODP will be a route for players to make the National Team? It sounds like they (US SOCCER) are putting the nails in the coffin of ODP.

I could be wrong , but just wondering.

ODP is set up as a much better model. The model and the way that system was designed just makes much better sense. It's the execution here in NTX (and other parts I'm sure)... that's the reason why it has failed. (It costs too much and that's in addition to what you're already spending elsewhere.)

I do not know the details of which association controls what, but it seems that the higher ups at the US National team have made a decision to try and squash ODP. IF they claim they will recruit out of DA clubs in the future, that takes away at least some incentive to join ODP. ( not that many should acutally think they will make the national team).

Gatorz wrote:

my2cents wrote:

indyfc wrote:

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

FCD is free. The others waive coaching fees but the travel expenses run 3-5k. Not at all free. In theory it sounds good. In reality the players labeled as developement players see 0 to 8-9 games. The top 14 or so play all the time. That is winning over development. The different clubs have totally diffrent goals. Take the primary goals of the four local DA programs. FCD is looking to develop for the pro team. Solar and DT have phenomenal college placement. Andro is trying to hang in there and be considered a big four of the area. FCD got in to pipe line to the first team. The others got in to not lose market share. In many areas outside NTX , North Carolina for example, DA is considered a joke by the top players. ODP still is the top level. It is all about competing for the paying customer. They are businesses.

As far as getting the top players into the system early..... It will be no diffrent then D1 CL. 50% to 75% of those on the team at U11 will be replaced by U16. They want them in earlier to eliminate another competitor- high school athletics. Now they only forbid it at the older ages after they have already gotten a taste. Drop the age and you lose less because they never started in the first place. It may be have value as offering a different venue to the paying customer but it will only further dilute the talent to more venues as they compete for players.
Good post Laimport

Why would DA be considered a joke in other areas of the Country if US Soccer with the backing of Jurgen Klinsman are pushing this and arguably that is where they will get their best players from? Do those folks still think ODP will be a route for players to make the National Team? It sounds like they (US SOCCER) are putting the nails in the coffin of ODP.

I could be wrong , but just wondering.

Those comments came from players at the ODP regional trials and members of the ODP Region III team. There are NTX players will tell you there are DA teams and even clubs that could beat our ODP teams. They are right. NC ODP players say DA players out there are second tier. I put more faith in what the experienced (95s) players say. They don't want me to write a check.

my2cents wrote:

indyfc wrote:

my2cents wrote:$

U15/U16 & U17/U18 DA teams are free. Will the U13/U14 DA be the same??? If so, this should help (not guarantee) with the premise of the "best players" being on these teams. U11 & U12 PA teams will fill the $$ void left by these age groups moving up to DA if it will be free.

This is also another way of getting full control of the talented bb's at a younger age, much like the other structures around the world.

FCD is free. The others waive coaching fees but the travel expenses run 3-5k. Not at all free. In theory it sounds good. In reality the players labeled as developement players see 0 to 8-9 games. The top 14 or so play all the time. That is winning over development. The different clubs have totally diffrent goals. Take the primary goals of the four local DA programs. FCD is looking to develop for the pro team. Solar and DT have phenomenal college placement. Andro is trying to hang in there and be considered a big four of the area. FCD got in to pipe line to the first team. The others got in to not lose market share. In many areas outside NTX , North Carolina for example, DA is considered a joke by the top players. ODP still is the top level. It is all about competing for the paying customer. They are businesses.

According to the FAQs on the US Soccer site they are required to start each player in at least 25% of games. Do some players really end up starting 0 games?

It also says the players cannot participate on other teams. I thought they were dual rostering in CL? Or is that only PA players that are dual rostering?

FAQs from US Soccer DA page...

Are there any rules specific to rosters?
Academy clubs are required to maintain a minimum of 36 full-time players on their club player pool. There is no limit on the number of players that can be rostered as long as each player starts a minimum of 25% of the clubs matches.

Can Academy players participate with non-Academy teams during the season?
Full-time Academy players are only permitted to participate on their Academy team, high school soccer team (except in areas where ten month programming is in effect – see below for a complete list) and National Team duty.

krowdkontrol wrote:

go99 wrote:different governing bodies so pre academy doesn't neccesarily go away.

Interesting...Why would someone want to play Pre Academy U 13 or U 14, when they can play DA 13/14?

Same reason some current U15s play PA rather than DA U 15/16-because they did not make the u15/16 DA team.

Laimport wrote:The MLS DA teams are starting to do well. Where they have a decent infrastructure in place.

Funny you should say that... I believe that down the road the only clubs with DA teams will be the MLS clubs. US Soccer has more control over those clubs and can mandate their curriculum be followed as stated is needed on some of the posts above.

This would also further streamline the talent pool through the MLS and National Teams which is their ultimate goal.

They'll have the rest of the clubs go back to just CL or PA and developing players for colleges.

Let's face it. The majority of U16 DA team starters are going to be U16.

For instance, if current u16da teams are 96/97 birth years...there's a huge difference between a player born in January of 96 and December of 97.

That's 2 full age groups in club soccer. The Jan 96 player would be U17 club and the December 97 kid would be U15 club.

In Europe the teams are single year thru u17. U18/19 are combined.

So a player should be dual rostered at the younger ages. You don't develop sitting on the bench.

PA is a US Club entity. DA is ussoccer.

So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.