Re: Dallas Cup - moral/ethical dilemma

by Onetime 12/7/2009, 12:22 pm

Everyone, no need comparing 13 year old boys to Taliban, that is WRONG and I feel sorry for you. As a parent of a Solar 97 Boy, the kids are devestated, the parents are disappointed, but we will ALL get over it.

by CH1 12/7/2009, 12:28 pm

The DT open practices should be FULL ...I mean interesting now!

by cornerkick96 12/7/2009, 1:24 pm

CH1 wrote:The DT open practices should be FULL ...I mean interesting now!

I don't know - is it really that great playing in the DC if you're the whipping post of the bracket? The DT teams that don't belong will probably get their heads handed to them. I am not sure if that is a positive thing for a team.

by Tequilapark 12/7/2009, 2:18 pm

CH1 wrote:The DT open practices should be FULL ...I mean interesting now!

Maybe some parents will want to take their boys to the Texans so they can play in DC, I am one of the ones that will not, been there, did not like the soccer style or philosophy, moved on.

I do know that ultimately, its only a tournament, they will do whatever they want with the rules, its a business; but as a customer I can also choose not to go see the games, not to host any players and to support a boycott if my club decides to do it, even if this will means my bb not playing. As customers we have a choice, and there are plenty of tournaments out there.

by Jedi Mind Tricks 12/10/2009, 11:12 pm

Just for the sake of being Devil's advocate, how many other clubs would willingly volunteer all of the manpower hours to organize an event like this and not extract similar coin? I'm not so sure that the same clubs who are aggrieved would not have acted the same.

Of course that does not take away from the suffering that the parents and children who thought they had earned a spot in the DC, are now finding out differently. But, that is another life lesson to which we can all relate.

by Crochet 12/11/2009, 9:05 am

The solution is very simple. For this year only, accept the additional teams from Dallas that wouldve gotten in under the old formula. It's not that many. In turn, just invite 1 or at most 2 less out of town teams to participate. Easy solution. Fair to everyone. And then make sure everyone knows the rules have changed for next year.

by Gordon Jago 12/11/2009, 12:00 pm

It has been interesting to read in recent days some of the postings shown on the txsoccer.com and emails received by Dallas Cup staff members.

First and foremost, we thank those soccer enthusiasts who have sent to us both critical and praise for their interest in Dr Pepper Dallas Cup, it is always appreciated.

I am certain that any answers that I give to questions raised and statements made will not satisfy some of those people who made complaints. However, at the very least you will be aware of the actions of the Dallas Cup with regard to team selection.

The following are some of the facts pertaining to questions raised and statements made. It should be remembered that the “Qualifying Procedures for Dallas Metro Area Teams” have changed from year to year and there has always been a statement at the end of the procedures that stated “Qualification Procedures Are Subject To Change At Any Time If Deemed Necessary By The Dallas Cup.”

The lateness of selection of Dallas Metro area teams was due to the time taken in selecting a new host club following the resignations of the former host club, Texans Longhorns in August of this year.
The number of Dallas Metro area teams selected for Dr Pepper Dallas Cup XXXI is controlled, to a degree, by:
- How many international teams require the Dallas Cup HomeStay Program
To provide the number of teams to assist us in the homestay program we select from the following groups that make up what is defined as “Dallas Metro Area Teams”:
- Local USSF Academy teams
- Dallas Classic League teams
- The Host Club – Dallas Texans
With a maximum of 180-184 teams to be selected, we attempt to gain a wide representation from around the USA, International teams and local Dallas metro area teams.
With applications received this year from over 300 teams it is not an easy task for the Dallas Cup competition committee to make the selections. There are many first class teams not selected as an attempt is made to obtain a wide representation from the USA and Internationally.
As stated, we select local teams from the three groups listed in item #3 in accordance with “HomeStay” requirements and this normally has to be done well in advance of actually knowing how many international teams will request and be granted the HomeStay Program.

With an approximate number of 25-30 local teams selected, we know that there will always be disappointment with so many teams wishing to participate.
Host Club – The Texas Longhorns S.C. was the “host club” for thirty (30) years providing us with volunteers and support each year in order for us to provide a first class service to visiting teams, officials, referees, VIP’s, college coaches plus assisting us with some of our Dallas Is Diversity programs.

With the resignation of the Texas Longhorns S.C. and an increase in our Diversity programs scheduled for 2010 there is a need for a huge increase in the number of volunteers available to us. In addition to providing volunteers the new “Host Club Concept” requires the host club to assist in the area of sponsorship development, stadium ticket sales, tournament program sales and much more than has been the case in the past years. With these factors taken into consideration, the Dallas Texans SC was selected as the new host club of the 2010 tournament.
Host Club Privileges
For the support received from a “host club” certain privileges, with some restrictions, are afforded that in the past the Texas Longhorns SC were given and that is a number of “team slots” in all age groups of the tournament. The Dallas Texans have been afforded that privilege as the new host club.
As stated, due to the notification of the resignation by the Texan Longhorns SC in August, 2009 and the time taken for us to select a new host club, the normal procedure of informing the Classic League prior to the start of the Fall season of the number of their teams that would participate in the 2010 tournament was not possible. Therefore, the number of teams required or any indication of our needs for 2010 was not given until November.

ANY CLUB OR TEAM COACH THAT STATED OR GAVE ANY INDICATION TO THEIR PLAYERS AND PARENTS OF THEIR TEAM QUALIFYING FOR DR PEPPER DALLAS CUP XXXI, IN 2010, WAS INCORRECT. AS PREVIOUSLY STATED THE QUALIFYING PROCEDURES CHANGE FROM YEAR TO YEAR AND IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ASSUMED THAT “THE RULES” AS SOME POSTINGS AND EMAILS STATED WOULD REMAIN THE SAME FROM 2009.

OUR COMPETITION COMMITTEE WAS NOT ABLE, UNTIL NOVEMBER, TO FINALIZE ANY NUMBERS UNTIL WE KNEW WHO WOULD BE THE NEW “HOST CLUB” AND WHICH AGE GROUPS THE EIGHT USSF ACADEMY TEAMS WOULD BE PLACED IN.

THAT INFORMATION ON TEAM INVITATIONS WAS FORWARDED TO THE CLASSIC LEAGUE OFFICE IMMEDIATELY ONCE THOSE DETAILS WERE FINALIZED.

The aim of the Dr Pepper Dallas Cup is to assist the development of US Soccer at all levels. Every effort is made to bring the very best teams referees and coaches to Dallas each year in order that our players, referees, and coaches can gain knowledge as they develop their soccer abilities.

For your interest, this year there are 28 Dallas metro area teams selected for Dr Pepper Dallas Cup XXXI, fifteen percent (15%) of the total number of teams in the tournament and 20 of the 28 teams are from the Classic League.

All of us at Dallas Cup, Inc. wish you a very Happy Holiday and every enjoyment and success in your future soccer endeavors.

Gordon Jago, M.B.E.
Executive Director
Dallas Cup, Inc.

by ckclimited3 12/11/2009, 1:32 pm

Thanks for the clarification, however I think answers to the two following questions would go a long way to helping people understand the whats and whys.
1. Were the Texans given a greater number of team slots this year than with the Longhorns
2. Has this situation ever happened in the Dallas Cup in the past where the host team has placed a lower place team into the tournament at the expense of a higher placed team, simply because of the hosting agreement?
If the other hosting clubs have done this in the past, then there really isnt a reason to complain. If it has happened in the past, it may not be right, but it may be the norm.

by treefrog13 12/11/2009, 6:39 pm

This 'clarification' is pretty much a euphemism for 'read the fine print' and is a perfect example of why/how lawyers make money.. Regardless of the 'letter of the law' the 'spirit' has certainly been compromised by this reworking of the selection process; for 'PR' alone, Crochet's solution Dallas Cup - moral/ethical dilemma - Page 3 Icon_idea

of including both Solar teams should have be offered - leave one visitor out, period! Dallas Cup - moral/ethical dilemma - Page 3 Icon_rolleyes

by sillymom 12/12/2009, 7:26 am

ckclimited3 wrote:Thanks for the clarification, however I think answers to the two following questions would go a long way to helping people understand the whats and whys.
1. Were the Texans given a greater number of team slots this year than with the Longhorns hell yeah it used to be 1 Texans are now given 2 out of the 4 invited and the teams have to qualify and those kids play their hearts out each year leading up to it to qualify for D1 and stay in D1 and remain top 4.
2. Has this situation ever happened in the Dallas Cup in the past where the host team has placed a lower place team into the tournament at the expense of a higher placed team, simply because of the hosting agreement? Don't think so given this uproar. I also don't think it was an issue before- rule stipulates host club get the slots with the stipulation that they had a D1 team to fill it with.
If the other hosting clubs have done this in the past, then there really isnt a reason to complain. If it has happened in the past, it may not be right, but it may be the norm.

Question does the host team reap the benefits of any income from Dallas Cup? You would think so, anyone know for sure.

by clueless 12/12/2009, 1:12 pm

The think I'm having trouble with, given the explanation:
- Is the emphasis to get out of town teams or a better tournament (the Solar teams in question are teams that any tournament in the country would invite to make that tournament better)
- If there is a great need/concern for the number of hosting families (wouldn't it make sense to invite the two Solar teams as they are local and more than competitive)?
- As I mentioned earlier, it seems to me the obvious remedy would be to take the top four + any hosting team deemed qualified. The worst case this provides is that two better teams will now be in the tournament, one that has a realistic shot at winning their age bracket.
I'm very impressed with the number of applications as well as the number of teams accepted - good information.

by scrmum 12/15/2009, 9:46 pm

What exactly does the "host club" do to warrant automatic entries? When most clubs hold a tournament, it's a fundraiser and the parents put in a lot of volunteer hours. In Dallas Cup, every local team is required to volunteer, and the tournament is run by a board. The Longhorns always got their one entry if they had a D-1 team, and as is the nature of automatic bids, it sometimes allowed a team to bypass a seemingly more deserving team, which was none too happy about it. For that matter, automatic bids were also awarded to past NAMDC champions, who occasionally finished in the bottom half of D-1 and got in over another team, too. So, no, this isn't a new issue. Just not sure how the Texans got TWO out of it! Are they doing twice as much work as the Longhorns were?
But, this entire season the Dallas Cup website qualification page only said that they'd notify teams of the new procedure prior to the first round of selection, which they did. True, it wasn't before the games were over, but would that have really changed anything? Did your boys not try to win the last game because they thought their third or fourth place standing was good enough for Dallas Cup? I've never seen Solar 97, but KS and Solar 96 never looked satisfied.
But, don't give up. This is only the first round of selection. Lots of alternate teams get in each year at different stages to round out the brackets. If some really outstanding teams were left out, hopefully they will end up on the schedule. It makes for a better tournament for all. And, as we found out last year, a last minute bid can mean a schedule of games during school hours (plus for the kids) and no volunteering (plus for the parents!)

by Crochet 12/19/2009, 7:09 am

Well, its now official--its posted on the Dallas Cup website.
What I really love is the self-serving press release, clearly written to justify the change to include two Texans teams. Here is part of it: The Dallas Texans SC will be involved in the massive volunteer corps that makes the Dallas Cup experience what it is by providing new volunteers to form a number of new committees and to augment existing committees which will provide an even better experience for the teams, officials and spectators. The club will also assist with Stadium ticket sales, Official Tournament Program sales and Sponsorship solicitation. These areas of assistance are a major key to the success of the programs (Tournament and Dallas Is Diversity free soccer clinics) put forth by Dallas Cup, Inc. during the course of the year.

Do these people think we are stupid? Do they think we are going to read this and say "Uh, wow, the Texans are going to provide a massive amount of new volunteers--so I guess its ok for some lowly 7th place team to go over a 3rd place team." After reading this I wonder how the Dallas Cup survived for its first 25 years without all these volunteers and committees. Come on people. At least be intellectually honest.
Regardless of the self-serving hyperbole, my answer is the same--for this year and this year only, invite any extra Dallas teams cut-out by this late in the game process change.

by twotone 12/19/2009, 10:02 pm

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the new sponsorship deal with Nike, instead of Adidas as in previous years, as something that also contributed to Dallas Cup changing host clubs. Was Longhorns Adidas? We know that DT is a big Nike team.

by True10 12/20/2009, 2:10 pm

Crochet wrote:Well, its now official--its posted on the Dallas Cup website.
What I really love is the self-serving press release, clearly written to justify the change to include two Texans teams. Here is part of it: The Dallas Texans SC will be involved in the massive volunteer corps that makes the Dallas Cup experience what it is by providing new volunteers to form a number of new committees and to augment existing committees which will provide an even better experience for the teams, officials and spectators. The club will also assist with Stadium ticket sales, Official Tournament Program sales and Sponsorship solicitation. These areas of assistance are a major key to the success of the programs (Tournament and Dallas Is Diversity free soccer clinics) put forth by Dallas Cup, Inc. during the course of the year.

Do these people think we are stupid? Do they think we are going to read this and say "Uh, wow, the Texans are going to provide a massive amount of new volunteers--so I guess its ok for some lowly 7th place team to go over a 3rd place team." After reading this I wonder how the Dallas Cup survived for its first 25 years without all these volunteers and committees. Come on people. At least be intellectually honest.
Regardless of the self-serving hyperbole, my answer is the same--for this year and this year only, invite any extra Dallas teams cut-out by this late in the game process change.

Funny know that are requesting volunteers on their website now. Maybe too many DT teams got in and not enough extra teams to man the booths. Dallas Cup - moral/ethical dilemma - Page 3 Icon_rolleyes

by FlatBack4 12/20/2009, 5:31 pm

True10 wrote:
Crochet wrote:Well, its now official--its posted on the Dallas Cup website.
What I really love is the self-serving press release, clearly written to justify the change to include two Texans teams. Here is part of it: The Dallas Texans SC will be involved in the massive volunteer corps that makes the Dallas Cup experience what it is by providing new volunteers to form a number of new committees and to augment existing committees which will provide an even better experience for the teams, officials and spectators. The club will also assist with Stadium ticket sales, Official Tournament Program sales and Sponsorship solicitation. These areas of assistance are a major key to the success of the programs (Tournament and Dallas Is Diversity free soccer clinics) put forth by Dallas Cup, Inc. during the course of the year.

Do these people think we are stupid? Do they think we are going to read this and say "Uh, wow, the Texans are going to provide a massive amount of new volunteers--so I guess its ok for some lowly 7th place team to go over a 3rd place team." After reading this I wonder how the Dallas Cup survived for its first 25 years without all these volunteers and committees. Come on people. At least be intellectually honest.
Regardless of the self-serving hyperbole, my answer is the same--for this year and this year only, invite any extra Dallas teams cut-out by this late in the game process change.

Funny know that are requesting volunteers on their website now. Maybe too many DT teams got in and not enough extra teams to man the booths.

Two DT teams out of the U19 D1 group will be in DC, and they both suck. Must be nice to be on all those DT teams going to DC and knowing that everyone knows they didn't earn crap. Woohoo... Go DT!!! Be proud, and be loud!!!

Dallas Texans... The club where opportunities abound. If you can't earn it, just hang around, and we'll buy your way into it and make you think you actually make a difference.

Back when I was in high school, I knew kid that sucked at baseball, but his dad bought the team uniforms. He got to play right field. That's it... Dallas Texasn, a club full of right fielders.

by go99 12/20/2009, 8:48 pm

True10 wrote:
Crochet wrote:Well, its now official--its posted on the Dallas Cup website.
What I really love is the self-serving press release, clearly written to justify the change to include two Texans teams. Here is part of it: The Dallas Texans SC will be involved in the massive volunteer corps that makes the Dallas Cup experience what it is by providing new volunteers to form a number of new committees and to augment existing committees which will provide an even better experience for the teams, officials and spectators. The club will also assist with Stadium ticket sales, Official Tournament Program sales and Sponsorship solicitation. These areas of assistance are a major key to the success of the programs (Tournament and Dallas Is Diversity free soccer clinics) put forth by Dallas Cup, Inc. during the course of the year.

Do these people think we are stupid? Do they think we are going to read this and say "Uh, wow, the Texans are going to provide a massive amount of new volunteers--so I guess its ok for some lowly 7th place team to go over a 3rd place team." After reading this I wonder how the Dallas Cup survived for its first 25 years without all these volunteers and committees. Come on people. At least be intellectually honest.
Regardless of the self-serving hyperbole, my answer is the same--for this year and this year only, invite any extra Dallas teams cut-out by this late in the game process change.

Funny know that are requesting volunteers on their website now. Maybe too many DT teams got in and not enough extra teams to man the booths.

I know I will not be volunteering. They should contact the texans and demand more helpers as proper compensation for the buyout

by FlatBack4 12/21/2009, 4:54 pm

go99 wrote:
True10 wrote:
Crochet wrote:Well, its now official--its posted on the Dallas Cup website.
What I really love is the self-serving press release, clearly written to justify the change to include two Texans teams. Here is part of it: The Dallas Texans SC will be involved in the massive volunteer corps that makes the Dallas Cup experience what it is by providing new volunteers to form a number of new committees and to augment existing committees which will provide an even better experience for the teams, officials and spectators. The club will also assist with Stadium ticket sales, Official Tournament Program sales and Sponsorship solicitation. These areas of assistance are a major key to the success of the programs (Tournament and Dallas Is Diversity free soccer clinics) put forth by Dallas Cup, Inc. during the course of the year.

Do these people think we are stupid? Do they think we are going to read this and say "Uh, wow, the Texans are going to provide a massive amount of new volunteers--so I guess its ok for some lowly 7th place team to go over a 3rd place team." After reading this I wonder how the Dallas Cup survived for its first 25 years without all these volunteers and committees. Come on people. At least be intellectually honest.
Regardless of the self-serving hyperbole, my answer is the same--for this year and this year only, invite any extra Dallas teams cut-out by this late in the game process change.

Funny know that are requesting volunteers on their website now. Maybe too many DT teams got in and not enough extra teams to man the booths.
I know I will not be volunteering. They should contact the texans and demand more helpers as proper compensation for the buyout

That won't even make a difference. They have a whole club of lemmings over there. They're all just falling all over themselves to kiss Hassa... umm... to help however they can. Maybe then, he will notice they were helping take tickets and their kid may get picked to be on a DTR team.

by 98mom 12/22/2009, 10:16 pm

Unfortunate. We were alternates last year, didn't make it in. We were told to be in the top 2 in D1 (U-19), and you'll be in this year. They worked hard, and will be passed over by a team that finished behind them. This will be a great lesson in politics for them to take with them.

by go99 12/23/2009, 12:01 am

98mom wrote:Unfortunate. We were alternates last year, didn't make it in. We were told to be in the top 2 in D1 (U-19), and you'll be in this year. They worked hard, and will be passed over by a team that finished behind them. This will be a great lesson in politics for them to take with them.

Yes, the great American lesson. that manuvering and money pays off, not hard work. Should have spent the year raising money and tried to outbid the texans. Come on FCD. Let's put some of that Hunt money to good use and buy us some tourney spots next year. HN has some coin but not that much. Press release: Next years Dallas cup will be between all FCD teams and top national and international clubs. Dallas Cup - moral/ethical dilemma - Page 3 Icon_cheers

by b0013 2/23/2010, 6:45 pm

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dallas-Cup/114717986154?v=info

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=248201663163

by finish1 2/23/2010, 9:29 pm

Never discount the influential power of economic resources. Go, aren't you about to become a cog in the wheel? There's a delimma.

by go99 2/23/2010, 9:49 pm

Yeah I know. Little princess just signed to play up on a 03 team. It's already part way thru the season so maybe we can't be brainwashed into the cult of HN. If BB shows up in a red jersey then you will know "they" got us.

by finish1 2/23/2010, 9:49 pm

tick tock tick tock

by old soccer dad 2/25/2010, 11:41 am

Is Dallas Cup really that big of a deal? My kid has played in it since U-12 and its a lot work for the parents. I am hate to say this but I am tired of working the tournament so others can make money. The only people that actually go an watch the games are parents.

by rantnrave 2/25/2010, 1:23 pm

old soccer dad wrote:Is Dallas Cup really that big of a deal? My kid has played in it since U-12 and its a lot work for the parents. I am hate to say this but I am tired of working the tournament so others can make money. The only people that actually go an watch the games are parents.

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