Re: Kashiwa Reysol (Japan)

by plantit 3/30/2013, 8:35 pm

go99 wrote:every coach knows if he does not win he will not keep his players period. I have had a coach tell me that he balance his desire to teach kids to play with his need to win games so he can keep kids. This is a must win relegation enviornment that we ask for. It is us that ask for 11v11 soccer at a young age. And no its not about positive or negative soccer. They are kids and they will all make mistakes and plenty of them. As a coach you can decide what area of the field you want that mistake to most likely occur. Keep passing back and it will be back near your back line. Play it forward and it's closer to your attacking line. Which will cost you fewer goal? Second limit the number of touches. If I can get to goal in 4 passes. That is 4 opportunities for a kid to make a mistake. If I use more patience and possesion and do 8 passes I have also just doubled my chances for mistakes, But it wasn't me on the boards trumpeting for years that kids just want to win games now but that was a very common call to arm. If parents insisted that kids be taught and played an attractive soccer then more coaches would at least try to deliver it. Now to be fair it has gotten better as more parents who have played soccer come on and can recognize the NTX bs and ask for more. SO YES WE ARE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT WE ASK FOR.

Go , You make a backhanded great point . If it takes only 4 touches to get to the shot vs 8 touches, With 8 everyone is touching the ball more , hence developing a calmer more precise touch OVER TIME! It's the results of the growing pains that most have no patience for .

Just sarcastically tired of many coaches who have these kids with a great overall feel and touch for the game right under their noses and they just can't get past the winning at a trivial age . Until we fix the way coaches and clubs are compensated (I agree they need to be compensated as this is their livelyhood ) The winner will always be the smartest, best coach for our kids .

by plantit 3/30/2013, 8:41 pm

hunden97 wrote:I agree with all your points, they are dead on. And this area doesn't realize the truth until international tourneys like DC come around and expose our players, teams, and clubs. You would think by now parents would start investing more time, energy, and money in small sides/futsal options. I know participation at places like City Futsal and the new SSDL 6v6 are increasing noticibly. I think this is a start to solving our development gap in NTX. Just my thoughts.

Agree . But the coaches will say thats great for indoors . So your bb can play in small space . WHOOPIE. Now I need a cheetah that can run down all the long balls that my fundementally lacking kickballers are gonna send down the field .

by go99 3/30/2013, 8:46 pm

I just feel that for every kid hoofing it 40 yds out of the back instead of creatively playing there is a willing parent gladly paying $3k for someone to turn their kid into a donkey. for every kid flying down the wing kicking the ball 20 steps ahead of him intead of using control, skill, and vision there is a parents saying turn my kid into a race horse. I will freely admit I am an a$%hole and would just tell my bb that not what you do and move on to a coach who can teach him. But I can't be the only on to say "hey you can't do that to my kid" It just seems to me that if everyone was asking for better soccer and better development and spending their money accordingly that we would get it. But really money is spent to be on top teams.

by go99 3/30/2013, 8:47 pm

plantit wrote:
hunden97 wrote:I agree with all your points, they are dead on. And this area doesn't realize the truth until international tourneys like DC come around and expose our players, teams, and clubs. You would think by now parents would start investing more time, energy, and money in small sides/futsal options. I know participation at places like City Futsal and the new SSDL 6v6 are increasing noticibly. I think this is a start to solving our development gap in NTX. Just my thoughts.

Agree . But the coaches will say thats great for indoors . So your bb can play in small space . WHOOPIE. Now I need a cheetah that can run down all the long balls that my fundementally lacking kickballers are gonna send down the field .

kung fu vampires was some of the best soccer in NTX

by 78Comet 3/30/2013, 8:50 pm

go99 wrote:every coach knows if he does not win he will not keep his players period. I have had a coach tell me that he balance his desire to teach kids to play with his need to win games so he can keep kids. This is a must win relegation enviornment that we ask for. It is us that ask for 11v11 soccer at a young age. And no its not about positive or negative soccer. They are kids and they will all make mistakes and plenty of them. As a coach you can decide what area of the field you want that mistake to most likely occur. Keep passing back and it will be back near your back line. Play it forward and it's closer to your attacking line. Which will cost you fewer goal? Second limit the number of touches. If I can get to goal in 4 passes. That is 4 opportunities for a kid to make a mistake. If I use more patience and possesion and do 8 passes I have also just doubled my chances for mistakes, But it wasn't me on the boards trumpeting for years that kids just want to win games now but that was a very common call to arm. If parents insisted that kids be taught and played an attractive soccer then more coaches would at least try to deliver it. Now to be fair it has gotten better as more parents who have played soccer come on and can recognize the NTX bs and ask for more. SO YES WE ARE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT WE ASK FOR.

I never called you an idiot, but you don't know what you're talking about. I'm telling your right now coaches don't listen to or care about what parents want. It is a waste of our time. Think about it. Most parents have no idea what good, attractive soccer looks like, so why would coaches listen to them? I agree results are important, but if a coach does not have a philosophy or lacks tactical ability, it will show in the results and he will lose his players. Again, I shake my head because there is another side to this you don't know. If you are around this game long enough, you know that you can have a great team with great players and win trophies AND still lose players. This is just the nature of the game and in many instances there's nothing a coach can do about it. But I am telling you straight up that you can't name a coach who deploys tactics based on the wants of his parents. In the coaching world that would be considered occupational suicide. Yes winning is part of the equation, but there is so much more to this game, and in particular coaching. And by the way, I am not a NTX coach, I am a Cal South coach, but born and raised in Dallas.

Jules

by plantit 3/30/2013, 8:56 pm

go99 wrote:
plantit wrote:
hunden97 wrote:I agree with all your points, they are dead on. And this area doesn't realize the truth until international tourneys like DC come around and expose our players, teams, and clubs. You would think by now parents would start investing more time, energy, and money in small sides/futsal options. I know participation at places like City Futsal and the new SSDL 6v6 are increasing noticibly. I think this is a start to solving our development gap in NTX. Just my thoughts.

Agree . But the coaches will say thats great for indoors . So your bb can play in small space . WHOOPIE. Now I need a cheetah that can run down all the long balls that my fundementally lacking kickballers are gonna send down the field .

kung fu vampires was some of the best soccer in NTX

AHH the days . Now my dd rec team is carrying on the legacy of the vaunted KUNG FOO VAMPIRES!! The difference is none of my players have a sniff of a touch . Whats the excuse for our club coaches ? Most players at their level can at least trap the ball. I know I'm bitchin about a choice. Now lets dribble at swat the crap out of it Laughing

by hunden97 3/30/2013, 9:04 pm

plantit wrote:
hunden97 wrote:I agree with all your points, they are dead on. And this area doesn't realize the truth until international tourneys like DC come around and expose our players, teams, and clubs. You would think by now parents would start investing more time, energy, and money in small sides/futsal options. I know participation at places like City Futsal and the new SSDL 6v6 are increasing noticibly. I think this is a start to solving our development gap in NTX. Just my thoughts.

Agree . But the coaches will say thats great for indoors . So your bb can play in small space . WHOOPIE. Now I need a cheetah that can run down all the long balls that my fundementally lacking kickballers are gonna send down the field .

So true, but I am optimistic about change coming. I have personally seen the participation at City Futsal grow over the last 6 months. Matter of fact, I get a kick out of some of the comments on the board mentioning "top" outdoor teams and knowing quite a few of their players that have been training in futsal for months now. So not only does it make you better in tight spaces BUT it actually crosses over to the big green pitch too! Go figure.

by plantit 3/30/2013, 9:09 pm

78Comet wrote:
go99 wrote:every coach knows if he does not win he will not keep his players period. I have had a coach tell me that he balance his desire to teach kids to play with his need to win games so he can keep kids. This is a must win relegation enviornment that we ask for. It is us that ask for 11v11 soccer at a young age. And no its not about positive or negative soccer. They are kids and they will all make mistakes and plenty of them. As a coach you can decide what area of the field you want that mistake to most likely occur. Keep passing back and it will be back near your back line. Play it forward and it's closer to your attacking line. Which will cost you fewer goal? Second limit the number of touches. If I can get to goal in 4 passes. That is 4 opportunities for a kid to make a mistake. If I use more patience and possesion and do 8 passes I have also just doubled my chances for mistakes, But it wasn't me on the boards trumpeting for years that kids just want to win games now but that was a very common call to arm. If parents insisted that kids be taught and played an attractive soccer then more coaches would at least try to deliver it. Now to be fair it has gotten better as more parents who have played soccer come on and can recognize the NTX bs and ask for more. SO YES WE ARE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT WE ASK FOR.

I never called you an idiot, but you don't know what you're talking about. I'm telling your right now coaches don't listen to or care about what parents want. It is a waste of our time. Think about it. Most parents have no idea what good, attractive soccer looks like, so why would coaches listen to them? I agree results are important, but if a coach does not have a philosophy or lacks tactical ability, it will show in the results and he will lose his players. Again, I shake my head because there is another side to this you don't know. If you are around this game long enough, you know that you can have a great team with great players and win trophies AND still lose players. This is just the nature of the game and in many instances there's nothing a coach can do about it. But I am telling you straight up that you can't name a coach who deploys tactics based on the wants of his parents. In the coaching world that would be considered occupational suicide. Yes winning is part of the equation, but there is so much more to this game, and in particular coaching. And by the way, I am not a NTX coach, I am a Cal South coach, but born and raised in Dallas.

Jules

Tactics ? What,tactics ? There all the same . FCD,Texans, Andro , Solar , It's the same friggin game. Not one has the players ,The gumsion, or the knowledge to put togeather a style that reysol displays . You can't tell me it's atheletes Reysol couldn't bench 1000lbs as a team. Some coaches have an idea about tactics they just know their players are WAAAAY behind the curve on basic fundementals to employ those tactics.

by go99 3/30/2013, 9:10 pm

so you don't think soccer in NTX follows market demands? You don't think that playing in the top league and winning games draws players and money? You don't think that if parents started taking their money to coaches and clubs who taught a better brand of soccer that the other clubs would also start to change? And as far as most parents go I think that is changing. More parents are coming into soccer who have some kind of background in soccer and will demand more. And just like every other industry NTX soccer will move with market demands. Those that fill a need thrive those that do not fail. Right now NTX club are filling the need that the market demands. what I am talking about is a basic business principle that has nothing to do with soccer. IE. If the majority of consumers would only spend their money on a team that did post game tunnels in select then every team would be doing them and the ones that didn't wouldn't stay in business. Also if people in NTX wouldn't pay $3k for soccer then it wouldn't cost that much.

by plantit 3/30/2013, 9:14 pm

hunden97 wrote:
plantit wrote:
hunden97 wrote:I agree with all your points, they are dead on. And this area doesn't realize the truth until international tourneys like DC come around and expose our players, teams, and clubs. You would think by now parents would start investing more time, energy, and money in small sides/futsal options. I know participation at places like City Futsal and the new SSDL 6v6 are increasing noticibly. I think this is a start to solving our development gap in NTX. Just my thoughts.

Agree . But the coaches will say thats great for indoors . So your bb can play in small space . WHOOPIE. Now I need a cheetah that can run down all the long balls that my fundementally lacking kickballers are gonna send down the field .

So true, but I am optimistic about change coming. I have personally seen the participation at City Futsal grow over the last 6 months. Matter of fact, I get a kick out of some of the comments on the board mentioning "top" outdoor teams and knowing quite a few of their players that have been training in futsal for months now. So not only does it make you better in tight spaces BUT it actually crosses over to the big green pitch too! Go figure.

Kids played it for years and acually have more fun. Just gets a little dicey as the boys hit puberty. Testosterone, small field,boards, I think you get the picture .

by hunden97 3/30/2013, 9:41 pm

plantit wrote:
hunden97 wrote:
plantit wrote:
hunden97 wrote:I agree with all your points, they are dead on. And this area doesn't realize the truth until international tourneys like DC come around and expose our players, teams, and clubs. You would think by now parents would start investing more time, energy, and money in small sides/futsal options. I know participation at places like City Futsal and the new SSDL 6v6 are increasing noticibly. I think this is a start to solving our development gap in NTX. Just my thoughts.

Agree . But the coaches will say thats great for indoors . So your bb can play in small space . WHOOPIE. Now I need a cheetah that can run down all the long balls that my fundementally lacking kickballers are gonna send down the field .

So true, but I am optimistic about change coming. I have personally seen the participation at City Futsal grow over the last 6 months. Matter of fact, I get a kick out of some of the comments on the board mentioning "top" outdoor teams and knowing quite a few of their players that have been training in futsal for months now. So not only does it make you better in tight spaces BUT it actually crosses over to the big green pitch too! Go figure.

Kids played it for years and acually have more fun. Just gets a little dicey as the boys hit puberty. Testosterone, small field,boards, I think you get the picture .

Yes and No. First, no boards! Safer and more realistic. Please keep in mind I'm not trying to claim one futsal complex is better than the other. Play where you want I'm only speaking my preference. Second, if you train in futsal/small side correctly you decrease your chances of contact/injury same way a lower level soccer player is more likely to injure himself or another player. I guess they just develop better control over their bodies and actions.

by PG-Boy 3/30/2013, 10:16 pm

To get a first-hand eyewitness of the Japanese boys, I'm still encouraging everyone I know to watch them tomorrow in the Dallas Cup Final.

For direction to the Cotton Bowl, simply google: Cotton Bowl Stadium, The Midway, Dallas, TX

There's plenty of parking near the stadium. There's security and parking is very close to the stadium entrance. Definitely bring your BBs and a camera.

Arrive early, get nachos, hot dogs, cokes, and a game program. You can get official Dallas Cup t-shirts and other Nike apparel outside the main entrance, too.

Fulham FC is good football team. So you'll get to watch some quality ball with your boy(s).

by murito 3/31/2013, 9:24 am

[quote="PG-Boy"]To get a first-hand eyewitness of the Japanese boys, I'm still encouraging everyone I know to watch them tomorrow in the Dallas Cup Final.

For direction to the Cotton Bowl, simply google: Cotton Bowl Stadium, The Midway, Dallas, TX

There's plenty of parking near the stadium. There's security and parking is very close to the stadium entrance. Definitely bring your BBs and a camera.

Arrive early, get nachos, hot dogs, cokes, and a game program. You can get official Dallas Cup t-shirts and other Nike apparel outside the main entrance, too.

Fulham FC is good football team. So you'll get to watch some quality ball with your boy(s). [/quote]

what time is the game?

by PG-Boy 3/31/2013, 11:41 am

Match 1: U16 CF Monterrey Rayados vs Santa Monica United Blue... already kicked-off

Match 2: U17 Santa Clara Sporting vs Aalborg BK @ 12:30pm

Match 3: U19 IF Brommapojkarna vs Houston Dynamo USSF U17/18 Academy @ 3pm

Match 4: Super Group Kashiwa Reisol vs Fulham FC @ 6pm

by Soccerinsanity 3/31/2013, 4:31 pm

Denmark has a championship picture up so I guess we know who won that game. How's Dynamo doing?

by SoccerXXX 3/31/2013, 6:39 pm

Anyone at the SG Match? If so please post the half time score and any comments on the match. Unfortunately I was not able to attend.

by HatTrick10 3/31/2013, 6:53 pm

1-0 Fulham. KR hit the post on nice set piece in 44th min. Good game but KR is not playing with normal patience.

by cracktheshot 3/31/2013, 7:18 pm

2-0 Fulham

by HatTrick10 3/31/2013, 7:26 pm

3-0 on a quality finish

by PG-Boy 3/31/2013, 9:11 pm

Fulham, 5. Kashiwa Reysol, 1.

Fulham scoring early in the match changed the dynamic of the game. There were long stretches in the first half where KR retained possession near midfield, but they either couldn't penetrate deep into the Fulham side of the pitch or they preferred to play a patient passing game in probing for seams. The Fulham defense didn't give the Japanese any space in the final third of the pitch. #4 was an imposing central defender.

Fulham when they were able to get the ball, kept it.

It was almost as if Fulham chose when to impose a pressure defense to create turn-overs. Most of the time, they didn't seem to care if the Japanese passed it to-and-fro, laterally. As long as the Japanese didn't try to penetrate, they were left alone to pass it around.

When near the goal, the Fulham players aggressively attacked the goal and shot. The Japanese offense wanted to keep tapping it back and forth looking for the perfect shot.

by Marvelousmar 4/1/2013, 7:27 am

I think it brings the great question of Possession and penetration. Possession without penetration is just pretty but doesn't yield results. Possession and a little penetration plus attempts on goal will yield to results. Fulham was more then happy to let them knock the ball around and made an effort to keep them from getting into danger areas. Takes discipline to do that as well playing without the ball. But seeing how Real has beaten Barca consistently holding folks at bay can result in success.

by Rancho4C 4/1/2013, 7:46 am

PG-Boy wrote:Fulham, 5. Kashiwa Reysol, 1.

Fulham scoring early in the match changed the dynamic of the game. There were long stretches in the first half where KR retained possession near midfield, but they either couldn't penetrate deep into the Fulham side of the pitch or they preferred to play a patient passing game in probing for seams. The Fulham defense didn't give the Japanese any space in the final third of the pitch. #4 was an imposing central defender.

Fulham when they were able to get the ball, kept it.

It was almost as if Fulham chose when to impose a pressure defense to create turn-overs. Most of the time, they didn't seem to care if the Japanese passed it to-and-fro, laterally. As long as the Japanese didn't try to penetrate, they were left alone to pass it around.

When near the goal, the Fulham players aggressively attacked the goal and shot. The Japanese offense wanted to keep tapping it back and forth looking for the perfect shot.

The "perfect shot" is one that changes the score. Fulham found the "perfect shot" five times. That's not to take away from the beautiful style of KR but you gotta shoot! Patience had been key for KR through the DC but stubbornness, er I mean patience, by their coach ultimately lead to their demise.

by getafe01 4/1/2013, 8:17 am

PG-Boy wrote:Fulham, 5. Kashiwa Reysol, 1.

Fulham scoring early in the match changed the dynamic of the game. There were long stretches in the first half where KR retained possession near midfield, but they either couldn't penetrate deep into the Fulham side of the pitch or they preferred to play a patient passing game in probing for seams. The Fulham defense didn't give the Japanese any space in the final third of the pitch. #4 was an imposing central defender.

Fulham when they were able to get the ball, kept it.

It was almost as if Fulham chose when to impose a pressure defense to create turn-overs. Most of the time, they didn't seem to care if the Japanese passed it to-and-fro, laterally. As long as the Japanese didn't try to penetrate, they were left alone to pass it around.

When near the goal, the Fulham players aggressively attacked the goal and shot. The Japanese offense wanted to keep tapping it back and forth looking for the perfect shot.

It is interesting to see a somewhat different read on the game. KR came out with some long balls in the firs several minutes with some success, but reverted to their tiki taka play. The paucity of attack and forward movement gave Fulham time to easily reset their defense. Their defense allowed KR to pass back all they wanted to, stayed very much in position, and would gradually force KR back and back (even if KR kept possession) to intermittently send a runner in out of no where to disrupt KR passing. While 4 was a big boy, he was not the defensive stopper of the game or the reason that KR did little. Credit the outside fullbacks 3 and 2 for not allowing KR to come in from the side like they wanted. The left back,3, unassuming in stature, was clearly the top defender. He was responsible for a few of the first goals, rarely gave the two runners sent at him any room, and never panicked. I agree with most of what you write, but feel that the defense was maintained by the fullbacks on the outside. And, 5, the other central defender was clearly setting everybody up in defensive position. The big kid did little for me other than look imposing and boot the ball out of bounds alot...

by Laimport 4/1/2013, 8:40 am

I didn't see the final, but obviously Fulham controlled the game.

That said, it shouldn't turn into an argument over playing styles. Even Barca loses games. That's not the point.

Rather, it should be about teaching a more technical passing game while also being able to adjust tactically.

It's easier for a team to be able to switch to a more direct or counterattacking style when they already know how to keep the ball.

So, from U11-u15 the emphasis should be just that...keeping the ball.

If you can play simply, adjusting is much, much easier.

by PG-Boy 4/1/2013, 8:46 am

Getafe; yes, you're right on the mark. The outside backs and the other central defender all collaborated well covering the defense. Their tackles were emphatic when used. They were smart, hard tackling and had good ball skills. The Japanese rarely got behind them.

My commentary on #4 is influenced by me watching Fulham play four games. In the Final he wasn't as effective as the other three I watched. In fact, he was burned on the KR goal when he thought the kid in yellow was offside. Outside defenders that also push forward attacks lend teams great options on the offense.

#9 on offense had a deadly finish. I particularly liked his half volley shot to the far post. Quality.

by SDadX2 4/1/2013, 9:06 am

[/quote]
It is interesting to see a somewhat different read on the game. KR came out with some long balls in the firs several minutes with some success, but reverted to their tiki taka play. The paucity of attack and forward movement gave Fulham time to easily reset their defense. Their defense allowed KR to pass back all they wanted to, stayed very much in position, and would gradually force KR back and back (even if KR kept possession) to intermittently send a runner in out of no where to disrupt KR passing. While 4 was a big boy, he was not the defensive stopper of the game or the reason that KR did little. Credit the outside fullbacks 3 and 2 for not allowing KR to come in from the side like they wanted. The left back,3, unassuming in stature, was clearly the top defender. He was responsible for a few of the first goals, rarely gave the two runners sent at him any room, and never panicked. I agree with most of what you write, but feel that the defense was maintained by the fullbacks on the outside. And, 5, the other central defender was clearly setting everybody up in defensive position. The big kid did little for me other than look imposing and boot the ball out of bounds alot...[/quote]

+1.. pretty much my take on the game as well.

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