College soccer, US soccer future or it's biggest problem?

What College Cup reveals about the college game

By Paul Gardner Edited by Go99 (for my own nefarious purposes)

Without much hesitation, I'd say that the weekend's Akron vs. North Carolina NCAA Division I semifinal was probably the best college game that I've seen. And that's in nearly 50 years of watching. I put that probably in there, because there are some ifs and buts to be considered. Firstly: I'm using the criteria of college soccer to judge the game -- I'm not comparing it with youth soccer generally, or with, say, the Under-20 World Cup.

If we must have college soccer, then this was as good a display of the strengths it possesses that you could ask for. We got 110 minutes of superb commitment, stamina, effort, speed, athleticism and -- again within the college criteria -- skill.

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Akron has no playmaker, no organizing mastermind to vary the pace and to upset the predictability. Indeed, one might even wonder whether a playmaker could survive this frantic pace. North Carolina has Michael Farfan, but we saw nothing like the best of him as he was caught up in the pell-mell activity, almost compelled by the insistent rhythm of the game to quick-fire first-time passes.
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To return to an overall look at college soccer. The pluses are all those largely physical qualities that I mentioned earlier on. And they are impressive. But they are not enough. College soccer simply has to find a way to start playing a more thoughtful, much more skillful game. If, that is, it is going to produce pro players for MLS.

MLS Commissioner Don Garber should be concerned at what he sees here. Because it is deceiving. The colleges are still producing plenty of average defenders and midfielders. Very few top level-forwards, and no creative midfielders. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. Working on the possibly already fictional notion that the colleges will supply the American base of MLS teams, this does not bode well for the future of MLS as a league that needs to play entertaining soccer.



Chime in, What do you think?

College has nothing to do with the problem. you can't become a good and creative player at 18 years old if you haven't been raised with a good soccer feel, both technical and mental...College coaches just inherits players, they won't create any new talent; I guess they mainly make sure the "kids" don't party too much before the games (whouahh that's a tough job by the way...)

Agreed. I think part of the problem is we think that good players will go on to D1 schools and become better players. Instead they go in mediocre and stay stagnant. Then come out to compete in the world maket the same age as player like Messi with none of the seasoning and solid experience.

go99 wrote:Agreed. I think part of the problem is we think that good players will go on to D1 schools and become better players. Instead they go in mediocre and stay stagnant. Then come out to compete in the world maket the same age as player like Messi with none of the seasoning and solid experience.

I hope they go to D-1 schools to come out with an education(degree) that pays them more than the 30-40 K that MLS pays for developmental players.

I am not talking about MLS and developmental players. I would think at some point the US has to start putting out world class players. Maybe then they can come out and earn more than anything there D1 school can teach them.

go99 wrote:I am not talking about MLS and developmental players. I would think at some point the US has to start putting out world class players. Maybe then they can come out and earn more than anything there D1 school can teach them.

The better athletes will need to be recruited away from football and basketball. Until then the education route is more important.

may be of interest :http://www.socceramerica.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=35773

soccerrus2 wrote:

go99 wrote:I am not talking about MLS and developmental players. I would think at some point the US has to start putting out world class players. Maybe then they can come out and earn more than anything there D1 school can teach them.

The better athletes will need to be recruited away from football and basketball. Until then the education route is more important.

This "better athletes" excuse is really getting old. Soccer is about skills, not athleticism. You have soccer history proving it to you, time and time again. Maradona and Messi are not your proto-type of athleticism, but they sure can work miracles on the field. The US needs to change this warped mentality that the reason we suck is that better athletes play basketball and football. Most of the kids who leave soccer do so because they are better at something else. Skills and understanding of the game have a funny way of catching up with you. Perhaps that's why we do so badly...we tend to favor the athletic ability, which leads to our players senselessly running all over the field, charging at balls, and kickballing and hoping that the other team would fold under the pressure. Might work at U11, but it doesn't seem to dent the teams at the higher levels.

soccerrus2 wrote:

go99 wrote:I am not talking about MLS and developmental players. I would think at some point the US has to start putting out world class players. Maybe then they can come out and earn more than anything there D1 school can teach them.

The better athletes will need to be recruited away from football and basketball. Until then the education route is more important.

Gonna have to go with smurfy on this one. Messi is 5'6" or less, ronaldinho 5'9", C ronaldo is huge for a soccer player at just over 6', None of these are football or basketball type athletes. Peyton manning 6'5", Adrian peterson 6'1" 220#, Kobe bryant 6'6". There is a reason Gasol play basketball instead of trying to be a soccer superstar in spain. I always find it interesting that it is okay for football, basketball, and baseball players to dream of playing at the highest levels, but the idea for soccer players is the education route is the best you can do.

gababa wrote:may be of interest :http://www.socceramerica.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=35773

saw it and only 2 from N Texas, yet we think of ourselves as having such a great competative soccer enviornment

go99 wrote:

soccerrus2 wrote:

go99 wrote:I am not talking about MLS and developmental players. I would think at some point the US has to start putting out world class players. Maybe then they can come out and earn more than anything there D1 school can teach them.

The better athletes will need to be recruited away from football and basketball. Until then the education route is more important.

Gonna have to go with smurfy on this one. Messi is 5'6" or less, ronaldinho 5'9", C ronaldo is huge for a soccer player at just over 6', None of these are football or basketball type athletes. Peyton manning 6'5", Adrian peterson 6'1" 220#, Kobe bryant 6'6". There is a reason Gasol play basketball instead of trying to be a soccer superstar in spain. I always find it interesting that it is okay for football, basketball, and baseball players to dream of playing at the highest levels, but the idea for soccer players is the education route is the best you can do.

But what about better athletes with soccer skills? Take a look at SEC football and Florida in particular. Kids that play receiver, running back or defensive back come in running 4.4 forties are considered slow. They have players running high 4.2s and low 4.3s. Now image that speed and agility, because those positions are not only about speed but also agility and speed coming out of breaks, on the soccer field. If kids like that also possessed soccer skills the US team would be much better. You do not find athletes like that on any of the US national soccer teams. Players like Donovan, Johnson, Findley and Robbie Rodgers are fast soccer players but on a football team like Florida they have average to below average speed and size. Do not fool yourself into beleiving that if Messi, Ronaldinho or C Ronaldo had an extra 2 inches, 15 lbs and 2 steps faster and had all the same skills they would not be better players.

yes but if they had the extra 2 inches and 50+ not a mere 15 pounds, they may not have the touch and endurance. Soccer at a high level requires skill and touch besides just pure athleticism. 40 times are not enough. Oduro is lightning fast yet he still cannot make an impact in soccer. Regardless of your skill or speed or quickness, if you do not reach a required size you will not be a successful football player. Doesn't make you better or worse of an athlete just makes you a different one. Different games, different athletes, different skill sets. It's not because we loose the athletes to other sports, it's because we fail to train the ones we have.

go99 wrote:

gababa wrote:may be of interest :http://www.socceramerica.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=35773

saw it and only 2 from N Texas, yet we think of ourselves as having such a great competative soccer enviornment

Count again, there are three, which is almost 10% of team. Not too bad.

" Messi, Ronaldinho or C Ronaldo had an extra 2 inches, 15 lbs and 2 steps faster and had all the same skills they would not be better players" ...That's called Drogba. But Drogba is just one example of how you can become a world class player; the good thing about soccer is that you don't HAVE to be like that (opposed to basketball and football) 

my2cents wrote:

go99 wrote:

gababa wrote:may be of interest :http://www.socceramerica.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=35773

saw it and only 2 from N Texas, yet we think of ourselves as having such a great competative soccer enviornment

Count again, there are three, which is almost 10% of team. Not too bad.

saw 2 from FCD must have missed the other one.

What's the difference between Tiger Woods and Santa Claus? Santa stops after three HOs. Merry Christmas!

Ibystander wrote:What's the difference between Tiger Woods and Santa Claus? Santa stops after three HOs. Merry Christmas!

hehehehe good one!

gababa wrote:" Messi, Ronaldinho or C Ronaldo had an extra 2 inches, 15 lbs and 2 steps faster and had all the same skills they would not be better players" ...That's called Drogba. But Drogba is just one example of how you can become a world class player; the good thing about soccer is that you don't HAVE to be like that (opposed to basketball and football)

That is exactly what i am talking about. Soccer players come in different sizes. Onyewu is 6'4" and 200+ lbs., Crouch 6'7" and that Czech forward was 6'9", so I do not want to here about this endurance crap. Also what does size and speed have to do with touch. If you work on your skills and have the ability to have a great touch you will have a great touch. Speed does not take away from touch, the lack of skill does.

the three you named are an exception to the rule not the norm. Wait, what? That's not what you are talking about. If football and basketball are taking all of the athlete, that means they only come in that size. My point is that athletes come in all different sizes and styles. The type of athlete that is needed for football is not the one that is needed for basketball or soccer. The soccer athlete in the US is still there, he is just poorly trained. BTW I love "the Gooch" he is a physical specimen on a different level than most defender. His name will not come up in the conversation of elite CB. A much better athlete with not nearly the skill. He had better make it back by WC or the US is done in the groups.

go99 wrote:the three you named are an exception to the rule not the norm. Wait, what? That's not what you are talking about. If football and basketball are taking all of the athlete, that means they only come in that size. My point is that athletes come in all different sizes and styles. The type of athlete that is needed for football is not the one that is needed for basketball or soccer. The soccer athlete in the US is still there, he is just poorly trained. BTW I love "the Gooch" he is a physical specimen on a different level than most defender. His name will not come up in the conversation of elite CB. A much better athlete with not nearly the skill. He had better make it back by WC or the US is done in the groups.

An athlete is an athlete. The athlete that can excel at football or basketball can also excel soccer. There is no type, you can or can't. Better athletes just do it better.

I doubt Messi would do much in basketball or football. There is an entire white paper on Bolt. the first tall successful sprinter( most are around 5'9") Pro football players would feast on Kobe's bones. Someone certianly forgot to tell MJ that when he tried baseball. I certianly think that these athlete could do most any sport better than most people, but when it comes to an elite level none of them would be elite at them all.

What if you had the same substitution rules in Sr. FIFA competitions as you did in NCAA soccer? Do you think that the emphasis would be on creativity and ball control? Probably not. It would turn into a kamikaze smash 'em up derby of sprinters.

The main issue, as I see it is that college soccer is almost a completely different sport from real soccer. The same goes for high school soccer where not only you have the unlimited subs, you also have narrow and long football fields dictating a vertical game.

It's all cool, but it's not soccer.

Now at the youth levels, I agree that you need to modify the game for developmental purposes. But, when they grow mustaches and have chest hair, you cantreat them the same as big boys.

go99 wrote:I doubt Messi would do much in basketball or football. There is an entire white paper on Bolt. the first tall successful sprinter( most are around 5'9") Pro football players would feast on Kobe's bones. Someone certianly forgot to tell MJ that when he tried baseball. I certianly think that these athlete could do most any sport better than most people, but when it comes to an elite level none of them would be elite at them all.

Think JH and HS prior to specialization of one sport. Most of the elite athletes play more than one sport. Then you athletes that just can play only one sport. As the elite athletes get older and then train only in the sport of their choice they transform into a single sport athlete. If Kobe trained as a reciever from HS on he would IMO would be a NFL receiver.

maybe thats how it works here and maybe that's why are soccer players are not world class. Maybe Kobe could have made it as a reciever or maybe he doesn't have the frame to hold the extra muscle mass. Maybe there is a reason that the tall recievers are topping out at 6'3" and 6'4". Why aren't they 6'6" or why stop there why not 7'. Many athletic kids play different sports until the find out where their true calling is. MJ once said his true love was baseball and he always wanted to be a baseball player but his gift was basketball.

Back to the original point though. The focus on athleticism is one of the problems listed. So is colleg soccer a problem or is it the solutuion? I don't buy into the fact that other sports have all of the athletes. And all the is left in college is the second tier athletes that couldn't cut the mustard in other sports