Soccer development in the U.S.

ESPN article entitled "Soccer development in the U.S. shows progress and room for improvement"
ESPN

Garber: "at the youth level, we're just not good enough, and not as good as we need to be."

Gulati: "We're obviously a long way off,"

Bradley: "When push comes to shove, there still aren't enough good youth coaches."

Pareja:  "Americans probably don't even know how much talent we have, but we still have a lot of holes to fill at the youngest levels."

Stewart:  "It's not about the talent. It's the structure."

Coyle:  "What's missing sometimes is a soccer intelligence, an understanding of how to play the game."

Savarese:  "I think we're afraid [in the U.S.] to push kids or put them in difficult situations. People are more concerned about protecting them rather than preparing them to overcome obstacles. It's a false security. It makes them feel like if soccer doesn't work out, it's not their fault: it's the system, it's the coach, it's the teacher. They're allowed to escape into a different place where things will be easier."

Sorber:  "Development is more art than science. In Germany they're not all playing in the street. German kids play video games, too. But you do have to have little pieces that keep feeding the fire. That can be a coach that gives you a piece of information, or being on a team where you play a lot and you get to explore things yourself and develop not just technical skills but the ability to solve problems, for your brain to pick up certain cues. That's complicated. You can't write that in a book."

Pareja:  "This comes from the bottom of my heart: The players, the coaches, the managers, the people who invest in the game in this country -- we have to be convinced, first and foremost, of the talent that we have. Second, that we're good. Third, that you need to make American kids feel that they are developing their own identity. They don't need to play like Germans, or like Spain or Colombia. They need to be Americans. Once we believe in that 100 percent and we all buy into it, I think we're going to make big strides."

Hyndman:  "I watched the Colombia game in Frisco [Texas], and those players played the Colombian way. Right now, we're trying to model what's happening in Germany or the Netherlands or Brazil. But no model can duplicate the American culture.
I think back to when Bruce Arena had the national team, that was a pretty good American team with some damn good players. Where are those players today? "

Bradley:  "The end result has to be that we're identifying our best talent and putting it places where it can be developed by people who understand how it works, so that it's not just hit or miss. With the involvement of professional teams and the U.S. Soccer Federation, I would hope more talented players will come through. Time will tell."

A lot of great comments in this article.  Consensus is that coaches need to be better overall and certainly better at younger ages.  I love the quote by Savarese and that transcends more than just soccer.

Good article exert, but for the most part even the experts disagree here. Issue with youth coaches which they could not literally spell out is that we create robots in many parts of the country. Kids are joy sticked and told what to do versus figuring it out because the emphasis is on winning versus development. The structured sessions taught are not good enough because they either are let the kids do whatever they want with no instruction or tell them everything they need to do. Freedom in a framework should be the key by providing the basic rules and expectations of training and allow the kids to just play and encourage creativity, freedom, discipline and effort. This is more for the kids from U13 down. Those are just a few thoughts, but the fact it is being talked about it will eventually change and Oscar Pareja is one of the best, if not the best, and developing talent at the older ages.

It's coaching. We do a pretty good job of building good teams, but a very average job of building good players.

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I believe its the identifying process or lack of and the politics the huge huge problem is the politics

I'm sure the identification process is crap.   I mean, hell, I have seen the people they have identified around here...and since none of them were my kid, then clearly they suck at identifying kids.  

I liked Bradley's quote:   I've been in on hundreds of discussions about youth development in the United States, and many times I would look around the room and hear people who were talking, and I would think to myself, "I don't think this person has ever developed one good player." It's one thing to have all these meetings and strategize. It's another thing to put ideas into place over time.


We have our kids largely being coached by people with no track record of anything significant, other than a history of speaking with a foreign accent.   Of course, the same thing goes for us...the parents....collectively we probably don't know the first thing about making world class players.  All we can do is regurgitate what we hear elsewhere, show our biases, or point out the obviously shittastic things that some folks here do.   That's not the same as a solution.   Fortunately 99.999% of us and our offspring have zero role in a national solution, we all just happen to have kid's with the same hobby and we can bark at the moon all we want.

Personally, I think its the coaching.  Most places the coach is the dictator with no real oversight, no professional introspection, and no requirement to try to continue to learn their craft.   They are just thrilled to be somewhere where they can make a living coaching.   A large % of our coaches are not even qualified to make the kids decent.  And even the better coaches have run out of ideas by the time the kids are 11-12 yrs old.   But, like I said, I don't know a frigging thing.

POLITICS, POLITICS and POLITICS

Also an underlying racism in US Soccer. I have been told by a few coaches who have direct knowledge of the selection process that there is an underlying effort to not have the USMNT look like a Latin American team. These coaches who are privy to this info are white. Just look at the USMNT and tell me you really believe that is the absolute best this country has to offer.

Not only that but our entire culture is to soft. Players in Mexico, Germany, England and Italy are not treated with kid gloves. They are cussed at, pushed to their limits and treated hard. Parents here cannot even tolerate a coach raising his voice to a kid. These kids here are pampered and made to feel like they are already bad ass and in fact they are not.

Riquelme Rises wrote:POLITICS, POLITICS and POLITICS

Also an underlying racism in US Soccer. I have been told by a few coaches who have direct knowledge of the selection process that there is an underlying effort to not have the USMNT look like a Latin American team. These coaches who are privy to this info are white. Just look at the USMNT and tell me you really believe that is the absolute best this country has to offer.

I seriously doubt that the USMNT is the best the country has to offer.  Cause there is no chance that Beckerman is the best we have to offer.  None.    

What does a Latin American player look like?   Willian, Fernandinho, Lucas Moura, Juan Cuadrado?   Does the French team look "French"?   Does the Brazilian team look "Latin"?  

Population of the US
64% White
5% Asian
16% Hispanic
12% African American

40 man USMNT pool for Copa America
50% White
2.5% Asian
15% Hispanic
32.5%  African American

Its not unreasonable to assume that the % of soccer players is a bit more Hispanic than the overall country population.   But I would say that the only group where there is a clear disconnect is amongst those of African descent.   They seem to be taking the place of white boys.   There is a lot of institutional bias against white small forwards, cornerbacks, and 100m sprinters as well.    Perhaps its no coincidence.   In the end though, I have not talked to any coaches in the "know" so I don't know what is going on.

Politics, money, egos and now racism,,,destroying US Soccer..Not sure how to fix but I do know a badass player when I see one, and I see some every weekend in the hispanic indoor leagues off off of Harry Hines in Dallas. Some 02's and 01's that will put the best Select/Academy/Futsal players to shame but don't have the money or support to play for FC Dallas or Texans. Sometimes, I feel like reaching out to some top coaches to recruit these kids but realize these kids will be run over by the broken US Soccer system.

finish1 wrote:It's coaching. We do a pretty good job of building good teams, but a very average job of building good players.

Completely agree that we’re better at building good youth teams than developing good youth players!

Coaching is a significant factor, but so is parenting. Regardless of how much a coach focuses on development, if his team’s results land them at the bottom of the table then he’s going to have a difficult time hanging on to players to develop.

There are several parent voices on this forum pushing development over results (I’m grateful – keep ‘em coming), but that’s not the majority view.  Our youth coaches are giving us the winning results that our NTX (and US) soccer parents demand.

tequilaz wrote:Some 02's and 01's that will put the best Select/Academy/Futsal players to shame but don't have the money or support to play for FC Dallas or Texans.  

Couldn't agree more with that. I come from France. You don't need to shell out $4000 a year to have your kid play competitively. Somehow coaches over there figure this crazy thing:
skills are different from potential.
The french system is geared toward identifying not only skilled players (who would never be able to pay that much to play soccer) but also the ones with true potential that may show later in teenage years. I don't know how they do it, but if Zidane, Platini, Benzema, Anelka, Griezman, Riberry, Deschamps (and many more French players) were told to pay 3500/year to play select soccer, they would have laughed hard. They certainly were unable to do so and perhaps would have never made it through.
I would be happy to explain how French do it (or at least the tidbits I know about it), but it would be beside the point. It is one way. Germany, Spain, Italy and a few other successful countries all figure it out (at a much lower cost). So hopefully we will some day. For sure it ain't equipment or money (we have plenty of this in this country, perhaps even too much to our detriment). Remains the people involved, and likely not only coaches.

Number13 wrote:

Riquelme Rises wrote:POLITICS, POLITICS and POLITICS

Also an underlying racism in US Soccer. I have been told by a few coaches who have direct knowledge of the selection process that there is an underlying effort to not have the USMNT look like a Latin American team. These coaches who are privy to this info are white. Just look at the USMNT and tell me you really believe that is the absolute best this country has to offer.

I seriously doubt that the USMNT is the best the country has to offer.  Cause there is no chance that Beckerman is the best we have to offer.  None.    

What does a Latin American player look like?   Willian, Fernandinho, Lucas Moura, Juan Cuadrado?   Does the French team look "French"?   Does the Brazilian team look "Latin"?  

Population of the US
64% White
5% Asian
16% Hispanic
12% African American

40 man USMNT pool for Copa America
50% White
2.5% Asian
15% Hispanic
32.5%  African American

Its not unreasonable to assume that the % of soccer players is a bit more Hispanic than the overall country population.   But I would say that the only group where there is a clear disconnect is amongst those of African descent.   They seem to be taking the place of white boys.   There is a lot of institutional bias against white small forwards, cornerbacks, and 100m sprinters as well.    Perhaps its no coincidence.   In the end though, I have not talked to any coaches in the "know" so I don't know what is going on.

just out of curiosity what are the "whites" origins?

tequilaz wrote:Politics, money, egos and now racism,,,destroying US Soccer..Not sure how to fix but I do know a badass player when I see one, and I see some every weekend in the hispanic indoor leagues off off of Harry Hines in Dallas. Some 02's and 01's that will put the best Select/Academy/Futsal players to shame but don't have the money or support to play for FC Dallas or Texans. Sometimes, I feel like reaching out to some top coaches to recruit these kids but realize these kids will be run over by the broken US Soccer system.

This doesn't apply to FCD Academy since they have a fully subsidized program.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:

tequilaz wrote:Politics, money, egos and now racism,,,destroying US Soccer..Not sure how to fix but I do know a badass player when I see one, and I see some every weekend in the hispanic indoor leagues off off of Harry Hines in Dallas. Some 02's and 01's that will put the best Select/Academy/Futsal players to shame but don't have the money or support to play for FC Dallas or Texans. Sometimes, I feel like reaching out to some top coaches to recruit these kids but realize these kids will be run over by the broken US Soccer system.

This doesn't apply to FCD Academy since they have a fully subsidized program.

FC Dallas does not develop players either. I have seen players spend years there on Premier teams and then DA and then FCD goes out and signs players from Mexico and out of state and marginalize players from NTX who have been part of the system. Honestly I doubt these guys have any idea how to rate talent. Of course not saying that some of the players there are not good players but overall MLS and USMNT have no clue.

Number13 wrote:There is a lot of institutional bias against white small forwards, cornerbacks, and 100m sprinters as well.

Riquelme Rises wrote:[FC Dallas does not develop players either. I have seen players spend years there on Premier teams and then DA and then FCD goes out and signs players from Mexico and out of state and marginalize players from NTX who have been part of the system. Honestly I doubt these guys have any idea how to rate talent. Of course not saying that some of the players there are not good players but overall MLS and USMNT have no clue.

The facts don't bare out your opinion regarding FC Dallas and the number of homegrown players from the academy is the largest within MLS.

The current U16 and U18 teams have some of the best talent produced and developed within the USA today and many of them are from our own NTX soccer community.

It's possible that FCD had some mixed results in the initial years of the program, but to apply that to the current system is wholly unfair and the quality of the players and teams proves that FC Dallas is the model for the future of MLS development academies.

The FCD Academy has a consistent and cohesive training and development system that is designed to prepare players for the highest levels of competition and performance and the system extends from the academy level all the way up to the pro team.

Dallas Texans, Odyssey, Andromeda, and Solar just to name a few of the clubs in NTX that have contributed players to the FCD Academy who have gone on and reached higher levels of their potential in the highly competitive and organized environment that the FCD Academy provides.

itsamoneygrab wrote:
just out of curiosity what are the "whites" origins?

You mean like in the Wolverine/Xmen sense? Sadly Michael Bradley's mutant super power involves self-induced midfield panic.

If you are talking about the general % of the US that classifies themselves as "white, non-Hispanic", Wikipedia suggests something like: 27% German, 20% Irish, 17% English, 10% Italian, 6% Polish, some Vikings, random mongrels, Michael Jackson, etc.

If you are referring specifically to the 20 white dudes in the USMNT player pool, no clue.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:

Riquelme Rises wrote:[FC Dallas does not develop players either. I have seen players spend years there on Premier teams and then DA and then FCD goes out and signs players from Mexico and out of state and marginalize players from NTX who have been part of the system. Honestly I doubt these guys have any idea how to rate talent. Of course not saying that some of the players there are not good players but overall MLS and USMNT have no clue.

The facts don't bare out your opinion regarding FC Dallas and the number of homegrown players from the academy is the largest within MLS.

The current U16 amd U18 teams have some of the best talent produced and developed within the USA today.

It's possible that during their fledgling years that FCD had some mixed results, but to apply that to the current system is wholly unfair and the quality of the players and teams proves that FC Dallas is the model for the future of MLS development academies.

The FCD Academy has a consistent and cohesive training and development system that is designed to prepare players for the highest level of competition and performance that extends from the academy level all the way to the pro team.

And we will see how many of those players end up on the USMNT. Obviously you seem to think that winning equals development. Same old NTX mentality.

Side note. congrats to all those boys for winning DA titles!

Riquelme Rises wrote:

And we will see how many of those players end up on the USMNT. Obviously you seem to think that winning equals development. Same old NTX mentality.

What age is it okay to win?

HupHolland wrote:

finish1 wrote:It's coaching. We do a pretty good job of building good teams, but a very average job of building good players.

Completely agree that we’re better at building good youth teams than developing good youth players!

Coaching is a significant factor, but so is parenting. Regardless of how much a coach focuses on development, if his team’s results land them at the bottom of the table then he’s going to have a difficult time hanging on to players to develop.

There are several parent voices on this forum pushing development over results (I’m grateful – keep ‘em coming), but that’s not the majority view.  Our youth coaches are giving us the winning results that our NTX (and US) soccer parents demand.

Yes, but winning and development are not necessarily mutually exclusive. The hope is now that the DA is U12, the focus at the earliest ages will be less on recruiting a top team and more time spent on teaching skills. Particularly defending techniques.

Regarding the parents, I would guess well over half never played or played very little soccer growing up. So, they don't know what to expect out of a coach or a club. Probably 95% of the parents never coached youth soccer at any level. And of the parents who did, very few focused on skills, shape or movement. We have a very large disconnect in soccer IQ that will require another generation to improve.

Coaches continue to recruit size over skill.  It's not surprising the group that we end up with at u12 to u16 because the smaller kids that show technical aptitude at u7 to u9 are pushed to 2nd and 3rd tier teams and their development stagnates.  Coaches tell these kids they aren't "athletic" enough or don't play "fast" enough to play on the top teams.  Bottom line, at the earliest ages, we're giving our best coaching to the biggest, fastest, strongest kids.  And it hurts us at later age groups because those kids don't necessarily turn into the best players at u12 to u16 and defintely not the best at u20 and above when the size differentials have almost disappeared.

Coaches have zero incentive to develop for tomorrow.  They are paid to win today.  Most parents don't know the difference between winning and development so saying one should be a higher focus than the other is completely lost on 90% of the parents out there.

Go watch the top u9 or u10 teams.  Count the number of top teams you watch and come away from the game thinking "wow, those kids sure are athletically talented" and compare that to the top teams that you come away from thinking "wow, that's a technically cohesive team".  I'd bet its 10 to 1 athletes versus technique based on what I've observed having taken 2 kids through the process.

Plenty of coaches tell you they are developmentally focused, but they'll also be the first to cut an undersized, technically gifted player for a bigger, faster, athletic freak, skills be damned. At least some are honest about it however.

Until the parents start to understand and start to demand development and back that up with their actions, nothing is going to change.

I've had experience with many of the "top" coaches in NTX from Solar, Andromeda, and the Texans.  All are basically the same.  Though I'll admit, I've seen Gall from FCD and Kennington from LFS field some smaller, technically talented kids on what were otherwise teams of athletic freaks where they were clearly working to develop the kid for the future.  I've seen most of the other coaches in the u9/u10 age group cut those type kids.

finish1 wrote:

HupHolland wrote:

finish1 wrote:It's coaching. We do a pretty good job of building good teams, but a very average job of building good players.

Completely agree that we’re better at building good youth teams than developing good youth players!

Coaching is a significant factor, but so is parenting. Regardless of how much a coach focuses on development, if his team’s results land them at the bottom of the table then he’s going to have a difficult time hanging on to players to develop.

There are several parent voices on this forum pushing development over results (I’m grateful – keep ‘em coming), but that’s not the majority view.  Our youth coaches are giving us the winning results that our NTX (and US) soccer parents demand.

Yes, but winning and development are not necessarily mutually exclusive. The hope is now that the DA is U12, the focus at the earliest ages will be less on recruiting a top team and more time spent on teaching skills. Particularly defending techniques.

Regarding the parents, I would guess well over half never played or played very little soccer growing up. So, they don't know what to expect out of a coach or a club. Probably 95% of the parents never coached youth soccer at any level. And of the parents who did, very few focused on skills, shape or movement. We have a very large disconnect in soccer IQ that will require another generation to improve.

Of course leave it to Finish to lecture us all about our soccer knowledge or lack thereof. He reminds me of Megamind...

Cool. Thanks for the complement. Now get back to work.


Stryker, You're exactly right. Keeping the U11 and U12 kids to 9v9 was a step in the right direction as it minimized the need to kick a long ball over the top and emphasizes ball and player movement. If we continue to see the top two teams run away with the league at U11, then we know they're is still room for improvement.