Re: DA v. Classic League?

by soccerdadrandy 2/23/2016, 4:23 pm

go99 wrote:Not exactly. The reason for the dual age group is so one year the players is learning and benefitting from playing against older stronger kids. The next year he is the older stronger kid. And no many players in the DA have never played in the pre academy. In fact last year I noticed that many of the U16 teams had a number of 15 yr olds on the squad and what the pre academy had was what was left over. Especially outside of NTX. Also the DA is not for what kids "want". The DA is like making kids eat their vegetables. It is a developmental league with (in theory) decisions made based on what is best for the soccer, not a kid (or parents) desires. The PA still exist because it's a different league that is making money. Clubs get the benefit of "parking" players in the PA instead of following the DA guidelines. One of the things the USSF should do is strengthen its mandates and have its clubs pull out of pre academy.

Pre academy in the TEPAL division is mandated by US Soccer and exclusive to USSF DA clubs and coaches.

by PremierLeagueFan 2/23/2016, 4:47 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:Pre academy in the TEPAL division is mandated by US Soccer and exclusive to USSF DA clubs and coaches.

Which is why I was pleasantly surprised when NPL added the SCPL division that enabled us to capture more of our talented players from Texas and Oklahama.

Currently there are 8 teams in SCPL's U13 division which amounts to more than 120 new players added into the PA system.

That is a good start and will allow us to identify more players as they continue to train and develop in a competitive environment that supplants their existing CL competition.

It also sends a strong message to CL players on independent teams to search out the independent clubs like Odyssey who can offer a PA experience for players who are on independent teams. I won't be surprised to see some players jump off the big ships to play in SCPL next season.

I can't wait to see who plays in regionals this season because it looks like NTX might win in both divisions.

by hanallalone 2/23/2016, 5:06 pm

I agree, it is getting better for all, and let's hope that NTX teams can pull it off and meet up down the line... PLF has it right; more PA options creates competition, and that is a WIN for everyone in NTX! Playing at the "next level" has never been more convenient than it is right now for NTX players, and we are taking full advantage of what clubs like Odyssey have put together for their small but potent #s... Going to be an interesting spring and summer for sure!

by davito 2/23/2016, 8:41 pm

What benefit is there to being in the SCPL?

Unless there is increased training and removal of financial barriers isn't it just another travel league trying to be more elite than Classic League?

by hanallalone 2/24/2016, 8:15 am

Not sure how to answer that, because the answer is obvious from where I stand... You know a $20,000 car does the same thing as a $60,00 one, but people buy all shapes and sizes at varying cost because some people just want more... The Academy opportunity available at Odyssey is extremely cheap, has quality play, and is fun... It is a GREAT option for those who want it, plain and simple... More games vs quality sides, chance to go to Nationals, cheap - UH - SIGN ME UP!

by PremierLeagueFan 2/24/2016, 8:17 am

davito wrote:What benefit is there to being in the SCPL?

Unless there is increased training and removal of financial barriers isn't it just another travel league trying to be more elite than Classic League?

The barriers are not just related to cost and many quality players have been prevented from having an opportunity to compete in PA because some of the bigger clubs have used their PA programs to reward loyalty and total overall financial contributions as a factor.

The Texans are a great example of using PA as a carrot and some parents are frustrated that the Texans PA program that was so highly touted in Youth Academy and CL has not lived up to the hype and now only practices a few times a week and doesn't even allow dual rostering anymore.

This new HN strategy has proven to be a complete mess for the U13 teams who are now 9 and 10 in D1 CL and a DTS team that has had to rebuild itself because of huge player losses that were difficult for them to adjust to in the first half of the season.

With only a few weekly practices and no other opportunity to compete it's not surprising the the Texans PA team is in the bottom 3 in TEPAL and has not been competitive this year. The BB's on this team were a driving force throughout youth academy and CL up to last year and now they are just hanging in limbo until next season when their luck may change or they can return to their CL teams, join another club, or wait for the next round of players to be selected.

Even though Texans PA is struggling there are a few "incredibly talented" players that the team better not lose if they stand any chance of revival next season. That being said, the fact remains that their program is in trouble until Hassan accepts the reality that they need to allow for more practices and dual rostering.

If the Texans don't start winning in 02 PA and the up and coming 03 PA group then their prestige will decline, and all the hard work of previous teams won't matter because parents and players want to know that their program is working and will take them somewhere.

Bottom line: PA is getting better as it becomes more inclusive and the new teams in the new league are practicing more frequently and playing in more competitive games so it is an overall improvement. The NPL PA system needed to add more players, regardless of whether you have to pay for it just like we do for CL or any other top league.

Regardless of the cost, it is worth the money and additional effort because competitive soccer gets more challenging each season and it is difficult to catch up with teams that are playing in more competitive leagues with more advanced strategies. As for the financial support, over time there will be subsidies and scholarships to players as the teams start to reap the benefits of PA status.

by Number13 2/24/2016, 8:19 am

davito wrote:What benefit is there to being in the SCPL?

Unless there is increased training and removal of financial barriers isn't it just another travel league trying to be more elite than Classic League?

The whole sales message at any point in this entire youth soccer process is just "we are more elite". Right? So, if you throw that out the window as a valid reason, you have removed the driving force behind what most of the people in youth soccer are doing.

That said, it's a fair question. I don't think being able to call yourself a PA player, cause you signed up for some extra league really does much for you. You probably won't get a free pass to the front of the line in soccer heaven if you have an NPL tattoo. Agreed. No matter the NPL league.

In theory there would be more training associated with SCPL. Last year, for our SCPL team, there was. And we were playing up, so the training was with bigger older kids and I thought it was beneficial even though it was a nightmare to organize. This year, our SCPL team is our CL team. And there has been minimal training because...well....so many games and training already. I heard for LP, SCPL is basically free. $10 a game or something. Ours was a little more as we needed uniforms but still you are mostly just paying for two trips out of town.

In theory SCPL offers up the same id2/whatever player ID opportunities that exist for any of the NPL members. The lone local 02 kid who was picked out of the id2 process last year did actually get invited to a local USSF training center, which doesn't normally happen for non-DA kids. So perhaps that has some benefit.

SCPL can get you into the same "go to Regionals/nationals opportunities" that any of the NPL leagues offer to the top teams. Trying to be national champs or whatever has some appeal to some people. Not me so much, but clearly some people our age (who might be involved in TEPAL) are going to go to great lengths for an opportunity to go to USYS (not USCS) champs. At older ages there are rumored to be some college scouting involved in some of the regional/national NPL things. Some. Maybe. I don't know.

In the end, probably the bulk of the people just view some benefit to playing more games. Against competitive teams that you normally don't play against. As it is, we are all paying say $3k which gets you 18 CL games, just from a myopic games played standpoint. SCPL gets you at least 8 more games for a few hundred bucks. SRPL gets you 8 more games for $85. Yes, the USSF says kids don't need more games to compete with the European kids on a worldwide level. Which I'm sure is true, but 99.999% of the people aren't chasing waterfalls. People like playing games. I'd say we are bumping up against the high end of too many games personally. But I think "more games and fun trips out of town" is viewed as benefit by many.

Benefit is extremely subjective. In the end, I'm giving more of a viewpoint than an answer. Sorry. If you discount "its fun" as a benefit, and reduce the criteria to "exactly what FCD is able to do for 15-20 kids this age"...then there is little benefit to any other local thing. Very Happy

by CCM 2/24/2016, 9:00 am

Of course, in LP's case (02's)...the NPL coach just decided that his CL team was the only ones deserving of being NPL players...To heck with the players they had the previous year. Sure they said it was open to others (the night before the first practice in which he "chose the team").... So let that be an indicator of how much a PA/NPL/whatever status means as an LP player.. The results show for themselves. LP 02
NPL team wasn't near as good of a team this year. Rolling Eyes

by SnookumsConCarne 2/24/2016, 9:17 am

Didn't 1 LP Thundercat player make the roster?
Therefore, Mr. Fagen's not as close-minded as you portray him to be, Sir.

by Number13 2/24/2016, 9:20 am

SnookumsConCarne wrote:Didn't 1 LP Thundercat player make the roster?
Therefore, Mr. Fagen's not as close-minded as you portray him to be, Sir.

You can't hold Lion-O down.

by hanallalone 2/24/2016, 9:21 am

Heard about that... You would think they would want the best players available within the club, but the "buzz" on LP is that stuff like that happens pretty often... Of course, you always hear of the bad things and rarely the good in most aspects of life, so from the outside it is hard to understand why people stay there if the programs are of the "cool kids only" variation... One positive thing I can say about the 03 LP NPL team is that they improved dramatically when they added players from their D3 squad (Owen)... I heard rumors of that team not being open to all, but I think that may have changed recently... Very solid side when they're playing well!

by SnookumsConCarne 2/24/2016, 9:24 am

Number13 wrote:
SnookumsConCarne wrote:Didn't 1 LP Thundercat player make the roster?
Therefore, Mr. Fagen's not as close-minded as you portray him to be, Sir.

You can't hold Lion-O down.

That's Snarfed up, Sir!

by PremierLeagueFan 2/24/2016, 10:01 am

CCM wrote:Of course, in LP's case (02's)...the NPL coach just decided that his CL team was the only ones deserving of being NPL players...To heck with the players they had the previous year. Sure they said it was open to others (the night before the first practice in which he "chose the team").... So let that be an indicator of how much a PA/NPL/whatever status means as an LP player.. The results show for themselves. LP 02
NPL team wasn't near as good of a team this year.

That is an LP issue that the parents need to hold them accountable for and I have supported any and all efforts to get that thinking through their heads which is why Trevino is starting to change his position and allow other players into his PA and SRPL teams.

LP has really squandered it's talent and I am surprised that more players have given them chance after chance, but if we use NPL as a measure of the club's mandate to develop players then you will be able to see if LFCA is an honest broker going forward. I follow a lot of teams and can id at least 1 LFCA player per team that is consistently overlooked by LP or is unaware of club opportunities and that is why I started calling LFCA out on the boards a few months back.

CL is where you play for your team and your friends, NPL is where you play for your club and a good club is measured by the sum of its player pool and not just a single team so remember that there a lot of club and team choices next season so go where the opportunity is.

by CCM 2/24/2016, 10:10 am

SnookumsConCarne wrote:Didn't 1 LP Thundercat player make the roster?
Therefore, Mr. Fagen's not as close-minded as you portray him to be, Sir.

Yep.. The 1 player that was able to make a Sunday morning practice on 12hrs notice. There was no mention that he'd lock the team in after that. When I inquired about future practices, Mr. F too my face said, "Well we're already set...your son can come out and be a reserve potentially if you want" Nevermind the fact that he was the starting center back the entire last season in NPL and actually made all of the games unlike Mr. F's players that decided a tournament was more important than NPL (which cost us the opportunity to play at Nationals). Yes, I'm bitter about it and have a hard time letting it go.

by SnookumsConCarne 2/24/2016, 10:12 am

CCM wrote:
SnookumsConCarne wrote:Didn't 1 LP Thundercat player make the roster?
Therefore, Mr. Fagen's not as close-minded as you portray him to be, Sir.

Yep.. The 1 player that was able to make a Sunday morning practice on 12hrs notice. There was no mention that he'd lock the team in after that. When I inquired about future practices, Mr. F too my face said, "Well we're already set...your son can come out and be a reserve potentially if you want" Nevermind the fact that he was the starting center back the entire last season in NPL and actually made all of the games unlike Mr. F's players that decided a tournament was more important than NPL (which cost us the opportunity to play at Nationals). Yes, I'm bitter about it and have a hard time letting it go.

Heh.... You said "Hard".

by CCM 2/24/2016, 10:19 am

hanallalone wrote:Heard about that... You would think they would want the best players available within the club, but the "buzz" on LP is that stuff like that happens pretty often... Of course, you always hear of the bad things and rarely the good in most aspects of life, so from the outside it is hard to understand why people stay there if the programs are of the "cool kids only" variation... One positive thing I can say about the 03 LP NPL team is that they improved dramatically when they added players from their D3 squad (Owen)... I heard rumors of that team not being open to all, but I think that may have changed recently... Very solid side when they're playing well!

It's all about this particular coach and ego about HIS team. I cannot think of a time that I have crossed paths with him where he wasn't bragging about something. It's sickening and I just have to walk away. LP caves to anything this coach desires and that fact will be it's undoing (at least in this age group) as many people have walked away from the club, plan to and/or have decided that anything associated with this coach (NPL, etc) is not on their radar moving forward.

by SnookumsConCarne 2/24/2016, 10:29 am

CCM wrote:
hanallalone wrote:Heard about that... You would think they would want the best players available within the club, but the "buzz" on LP is that stuff like that happens pretty often... Of course, you always hear of the bad things and rarely the good in most aspects of life, so from the outside it is hard to understand why people stay there if the programs are of the "cool kids only" variation... One positive thing I can say about the 03 LP NPL team is that they improved dramatically when they added players from their D3 squad (Owen)... I heard rumors of that team not being open to all, but I think that may have changed recently... Very solid side when they're playing well!

It's all about this particular coach and ego about HIS team. I cannot think of a time that I have crossed paths with him where he wasn't bragging about something. It's sickening and I just have to walk away. LP caves to anything this coach desires and that fact will be it's undoing (at least in this age group) as many people have walked away from the club, plan to and/or have decided that anything associated with this coach (NPL, etc) is not on their radar moving forward.

Seriously?!?
Man, let LP Elite be LP Elite.
Your BB's a go fit with LP Owen.
Don't worry/think about the other team.

by CCM 2/24/2016, 10:32 am

Understood. But since we're talking PA/NPL/DA, I thought I'd chime in...and the fact that LFC condones/accepts this irritates me royally. Enough to investigate alternatives. I'll leave it at that. I don't want to take this thread too off course. Take care.

by tpitty 2/24/2016, 11:17 am

PremierLeagueFan wrote:

The barriers are not just related to cost and many quality players have been prevented from having an opportunity to compete in PA because some of the bigger clubs have used their PA programs to reward loyalty and total overall financial contributions as a factor.

1. Players prevented? Huh, in my firsthand experience, the better players make the team. Doesn't appear to be any "loyalty" associated, but then again my kid wasn't from the Texans player pool. So no loyalty and zero contributions.

The Texans are a great example of using PA as a carrot and some parents are frustrated that the Texans PA program that was so highly touted in Youth Academy and CL has not lived up to the hype and now only practices a few times a week and doesn't even allow dual rostering anymore.

1. Isn't PA highly touted by every club that has it: Yes. As far as practices and Fitness programs are concerned, you can feel slighted, or get your own additional training since your dues are ZERO. If they are good enough, they will get all the training they can handle next year.

With only a few weekly practices and no other opportunity to compete it's not surprising the the Texans PA team is in the bottom 3 in TEPAL and has not been competitive this year.

1. Are they not competitive? I would absolutely disagree. This team has been coming together nicely. Do you understand PA/DA? Standings are only that. No promotion relegation, just train your tail off against like kids in order to make yourself better.
They are showing well. Since you know it all, you are fully aware that KS was asked to put team together on the fly. After the first month of a basically brand new team, they were truly only outclassed once. Watch a game, sir.

by PremierLeagueFan 2/24/2016, 12:17 pm

@Tpitty

Best of luck to the Texans U13 PA team this year, I hope you continue to develop and improve.

Good Luck and best wishes against Lonestars this Sunday. cheers

by tpitty 2/24/2016, 12:26 pm

@premierleaguefan

right on.

by PremierLeagueFan 2/24/2016, 12:43 pm

@Tpitty

Emoticon removal message received "Loud and clear".

Darn, just when I thought we were starting to make some progress and show a little bit of respectful friendship to agree to disagree you decide to up and remove the emoticon.

Oh well, best of luck to you and your team anyway!

by tpitty 2/24/2016, 1:01 pm

@premierleaguefan
I am down for being respectful, hence the removal of the emoticon. The face value of the comment was nice enough.
Appreciate the well wishes, we will see you out there sometime.

by protayus 2/24/2016, 1:24 pm

davito wrote:What benefit is there to being in the SCPL?

Unless there is increased training and removal of financial barriers isn't it just another travel league trying to be more elite than Classic League?

To add on to PLF and 13, I'm a full on proponent of SCPL and the value it has added to a handful of our 03 LP teams and players. It gave us a great chance to combine talent from other LP teams who chose to participate, and let talented players train and play together in a competitive league. For our team specifically it helped add an element of competing for your spot, which is always needed and often lacking when you only have 1 - 3 players on the sideline. On top of that all the boys had a blast and came out with new friendships. Only regret was two late PK's from bad hometown refs in OK, I would have loved to see both NTX teams representing at regionals.

I would say the same for SRPL, and we've tried to treat it the same as SCPL. There is definitely a ton of talent within our club and anything that gives us a chance to let it build on itself is a plus for the players and teams involved.

Honestly it's hard to see how PA would have been better for us then the combination of games and competition from Classic, SCPL, & SRPL. Instead of gutting the talent from a handful of teams (Other big clubs come to mind here), I think you can definitely say it has added value to 4 or 5 of the LP teams competing in classic.

by protayus 2/24/2016, 1:56 pm

PremierLeagueFan wrote:
That is an LP issue that the parents need to hold them accountable for and I have supported any and all efforts to get that thinking through their heads which is why Trevino is starting to change his position and allow other players into his PA and SRPL teams.

@PLF

This was never a Trevino issue as you've continually tried to create this perception. This was not a DOC issue either. It's up to each coach to recommend and allow their players to participate, as it should be. The pool concerning the 03 group has been diverse from the beginning and has continued to grow as participation increased.

Unfortunately the only issue with diversity is continuity, which Odyssey is definitely building. 11 goals against after 25 games in 3 prestigious leagues is a very impressive number and indicator of continuity. This is one of many reasons why we look for every opportunity available to CP through CL.

by PremierLeagueFan 2/24/2016, 2:23 pm

@protayus

I spoke with Trevino on numerous occasions about this issue and tried to help him to broker players between the various LFCA teams to give him the best representation for the club.

I went so far as to have a meeting with the DOC and the higher ups who made it clear in no uncertain terms that they thought PA and DA were crap!

Just because the public pressure brought to bear on the leadership encouraged them to change their thinking doesnt absolve them of all the bad-will they imposed on their players by not following their own stated code of conduct.

Its ok to defend the facts, but please don't try to rewrite the LFCA history that is clearly there and has created a lot of bad feelings within the LFCA rank and file.

I am a player advocate and will always try to help others do what's best for the NTX soccer community by putting the player's first.

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