DA v. Classic League?

@protayus

I spoke with Trevino on numerous occasions about this issue and tried to help him to broker players between the various LFCA teams to give him the best representation for the club.

I went so far as to have a meeting with the DOC and the higher ups who made it clear in no uncertain terms that they thought PA and DA were crap!

Just because the public pressure brought to bear on the leadership encouraged them to change their thinking doesnt absolve them of all the bad-will they imposed on their players by not following their own stated code of conduct.

Its ok to defend the facts, but please don't try to rewrite the LFCA history that is clearly there and has created a lot of bad feelings within the LFCA rank and file.

I am a player advocate and will always try to help others do what's best for the NTX soccer community by putting the player's first.

PA stands for Pre-Academy and I would stress the Pre. Texas DA clubs have teams in TEPAL which is part of the NPL. Teams in other leagues in the NPL doesn't mean that they are playing PA, however they may meet each other in the playoff system that NPL has devised.

The advantage of DA over NPL is talent identification. It is organized directly by USSF. It intervenes and regularly scouts the teams in its league. There are two showcases annually sponsored by USSF where cost for players ranges from zero to travel costs depending on the club. National team scouts and college coaches are present for these showcases. Colleges rely on these showcases as they believe the best collection of talent is there, so a high number of colleges attend.

DA will expand starting next year to U12 and U13. DA cost at FCD and DT is free. Solar is less than classic teams. Travel costs for FCD is free.

NPL has widened the net and that's great, but it has had one organized showcase in 2014 according to its website. It is robustly "pay to play" whereas DA is trending to "just play". There are sacrifices that DA players make including no school sports, extra practice and frequent travel, so it is not for every player. Someone accurately described PA as a placeholder for DA and that's all it is. If PA becomes a guarantee for DA, then that means the system is broke. There should be competition for spots every year at tryouts.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:@protayus

I spoke with Trevino on numerous occasions about this issue and tried to help him to broker players between the various LFCA teams to give him the best representation for the club.

I went so far as to have a meeting with the DOC and the higher ups who made it clear in no uncertain terms that they thought PA and DA were crap!

Just because the public pressure brought to bear on the leadership encouraged them to change their thinking doesnt absolve them of all the bad-will they imposed on their players by not following their own stated code of conduct.

Its ok to defend the facts, but please don't try to rewrite the LFCA history that is clearly there and has created a lot of bad feelings within the LFCA rank and file.

I am a player advocate and will always try to help others do what's best for the NTX soccer community by putting the player's first.

@PLF

Sorry Batman, you didn't quite save Gotham on this one.

protayus wrote:

@PLF

Sorry Batman, you didn't quite save Gotham on this one.

Yeah, but at least I tried and I learned a lot about LFCA in the process and have a much better understanding of areas within the club that are dysfunctional so that I can warn others about those particular pitfalls at LFCA.

My primary goal is to develop NTX talent in spite of what the clubs are doing. By helping parents and players find the right coaches and teams many more opportunities have been created for BB's who are looking for the best match. I am club agnostic and see the value that they bring so it makes it easier for me to call out the folks who are responsible.

I make statements about the Texans from time to time, but it's only because they have to live up to the expectations they have set for themselves. Leadership is always in my sights because bad behavior that is allowed to continue robs our BB's of a fair shake and we all know that management really calls the shots.

soccerdadrandy wrote:

go99 wrote:Not exactly.  The reason for the dual age group is so one year the players is learning and benefitting from playing against older stronger kids.  The next year he is the older stronger kid.  And no many players in the DA have never played in the pre academy.  In fact last year I noticed that many of the U16 teams had a number of 15 yr olds on the squad and what the pre academy had was what was left over.  Especially outside of NTX.  Also the DA is not for what kids "want".  The DA is like making kids eat their vegetables.  It is a developmental league with (in theory) decisions made based on what is best for the soccer, not a kid (or parents) desires.  The PA still exist because it's a different league that is making money. Clubs get the benefit of "parking" players in the PA instead of following the DA guidelines.  One of the things the USSF should do is strengthen its mandates and have its clubs pull out of pre academy.

Pre academy in the TEPAL division is mandated by US Soccer (US CLUB SOCCER)and exclusive to USSF DA clubs and coaches.

Ahhh not quite. It's "US club soccer" Which is a different governing body Than the USSF. So US club can decide to make it exclusive to USSF DA clubs and that its their choice. But it is not a mandated entity by USSF. Just as with the girls ECNL is a US club entity not a USSF one and the USSF made it clear there is no cooperation. So while you and people may suggest it's the same or part of the DA and the USSF, it is not.

LFC will poo poo PA and DA as long as they have no spot. I suspect that would change if they did. But seeing how they deal with NPL first hand doesn't exactly inspire confidence in such a thing happening.

CCM wrote:LFC will poo poo PA and DA as long as they have no spot.  I suspect that would change if they did.  But seeing how they deal with NPL first hand doesn't exactly inspire confidence in such a thing happening.  

My sentiments exactly! I still don't understand why a brand name like Liverpool FC isn't embracing every form of competition known to the soccer community.

If I was running a club with the Liverpool brand I would make sure that I was competitive in every league and age division I was in.

Every kid would have the pro kit and I would be scouring NTX for talented players to bolster the credibility of my internationally recognized training academy.

So after reading all the responses about the benefit of being in SCPL I can summarize as follows:

1) More games against quality & new opponents

2) It's more elite, and everyone wants more elite

3) SCPL gets players more exposure, in theory

4) It's more PA and that's a good thing, right?

5) It's not PA, it's NPL pay to play

6) HN shafted the Texans PA so it's better to be in SCPL

7) Mr Fagen is evil

Mr Trevino was evil but is coming round

9) CCM has bitterness issues

10) PLF is NTX self appointed player advocate AKA The Dark Knight

So the way I see it SCPL is another elite travel league, similar to TEPAL and SRPL. Some clubs charge to play in them, some don't. Some clubs practice more, some don't. If people enjoy being in them then their ok as far as I am concerned. But I don't think elite leagues by themselves do anything to raise the standard of our game. They make us feel good to be a Regional Champion or National Finalist but soccer is already very expensive in this country and the travel costs just exclude more kids. And more games without more training is putting the emphasis on the wrong place.

I was under the misconception that PA was doing more training to raise the level. It is just as well DA is being extended down to younger ages or we will never make progress in the world.

One could argue that the additional games played are more beneficial than additional training (if your club actually trains the right way and often enough)... I would rather fly with a pilot who had 10,000 hours of flight experience over a pilot who has 1,000 hours but trains constantly, because when my life is on the line I want a guy who has experienced it all first hand... Game experience is where the unforgettable lessons are learned, and although training is VERY important, you really can't beat getting schooled on the pitch when it comes to learning lessons that will make a lasting impression... We are all combinations of the lessons we have learned in life, and I believe the lessons that we learned the hard way have made the largest impression due to the sheer magnitude of the consequence... If you make a mistake on the pitch that costs your team the game, you never forget it... You may make 500 mistakes moving forward, but you will never make that same mistake again (if you have any future in the game)... For me, game experience is something that cannot be substituted... Who knows what the right combination of play and practice is, but either way, playing extra games certainly seems to increase a teams ability to anticipate their teammates play, making the team better as a unit... Additionally, I believe game experience helps the individual player in a way that training can't, but that is just my opinion... To each his own...

The problem with too many games is that players don't really develop. From what I've seen when a kid favors his strong foot, then he will routinely use it when the game calls for him to be two-footed. Since we are human, games are about the outcome and we tend to take very few risks. Practice is where that kid should be working on his deficiencies and taking more risks. Pickup is even better because more risks are involved. Pickup where the winner stays on the court, keeps the player engaged.

Games should be the equivalent to tests.

I agree that bad habits can be amplified if the games are not managed correctly... It is difficult to teach them how to play the right way and win at the same time, especially if they are a 1 trick pony and use the same couple of moves over and over... However, the # of players who are not working on their deficiencies as often as possible will most certainly drop off year after year; they become predictable and therefore are easy to neutralize... I think it filters itself (those who move on and those who don't)... That is why it is SO important to have the right direction from an early age... Winning is great, but playing great is winning!

I like a piano analogy, my other son plays piano.

He practices 6 days a week, performs a recital about 10 times a year and learns to play countless other pieces of music correctly over the course of a year.

Now if practiced 2 times per week but performed 52 times a year I think the recitals would mostly be awful and he would only master a handful of songs.

As earbucket said the games are equivalent to the test or recital. There are two important factors that go into acing the test: 1. Have you studied and practiced the subject enough. 2. Have you practiced the test experience.

Players definitely need games to get sharp in the game situation but in my opinion frequent practice is the most important element.

I think practice is VERY important as well... I just feel like games are where you truly see what your hard work was for... You've gotta do both, but too much theory without application seems to hinder creativity in my experience... I think we have skewed off target enough, so I will graciously exit with an endorsement for Paddy at Odyssey... That man would train 7 mornings a week and play games every afternoon if he could (so we would both be covered)... He truly loves to coach!

hanallalone wrote:I think practice is VERY important as well...  I just feel like games are where you truly see what your hard work was for...  You've gotta do both, but too much theory without application seems to hinder creativity in my experience...  I think we have skewed off target enough, so I will graciously exit with an endorsement for Paddy at Odyssey...  That man would train 7 mornings a week and play games every afternoon if he could (so we would both be covered)...  He truly loves to coach!

The problem here is that you think your opinion has as much value as leading soccer minds knowledge. There isn't a single source that suggest what you are saying is true. Wenger from arsenal, Fergusen from ManU, coaching staff from Barcelona, Pep Guardiola, Ajax etc have all come down on the side of more practice fewer games for youth players development. The game has minimal learning as a player. It is nothing more than the "test" to see what needs to be worked on in practice. Development is done in practice. Either you are correct and have figured out the key that the entire rest of the soccer world has not or you are completely wrong

Dang it I agree with Davito. My how time has changed over the years. Next thing I am going to find out is that Davito is not a Trump fan either. And we would be 2 for 2.

Well, I like winning....and the Donald says he is a winner and we would win a lot under him...So what's not to like?

Plus he says he will build a wall. I don't know why we need one but he is really good a building stuff so I reckon it would be an excellent wall.

go99 wrote:

hanallalone wrote:I think practice is VERY important as well...  I just feel like games are where you truly see what your hard work was for...  You've gotta do both, but too much theory without application seems to hinder creativity in my experience...  I think we have skewed off target enough, so I will graciously exit with an endorsement for Paddy at Odyssey...  That man would train 7 mornings a week and play games every afternoon if he could (so we would both be covered)...  He truly loves to coach!

The problem here is that you think your opinion has as much value as leading soccer minds knowledge.  There isn't a single source that suggest what you are saying is true.  Wenger from arsenal, Fergusen from ManU, coaching staff from Barcelona, Pep Guardiola, Ajax etc have all come down on the side of more practice fewer games for youth players development.  The game has minimal learning as a player.  It is nothing more than the "test" to see what needs to be worked on in practice.  Development is done in practice.  Either you are correct and have figured out the key that the entire rest of the soccer world has not or you are completely wrong

I stated my opinion, which is what the board is for... My opinion, your opinion, we're all the same here on the good ol' board... Just to clarify, I said training is extremely important, but I shade to game play... Since you're SO interested, I believe in the small sided game (especially 3v3)... I am not interested in arguing over an opinion of mine vs your studies of every person with soccer knowledge in the professional world; I truly don't care to do so... Maybe I am wrong to prefer playing games as often as possible to see where you stand, but that is just me... You work on deficiencies in practice, and apply them in the matches you have... I don't think we are on opposite sides of the fence here, but obviously you are cooler than I am; I never get to talk to Pep G... Once again, it is just my opinion and preference, so don't get so bent out of shape... Go Bayern!

I'm not bent out of shape at all and don't have to talk to pep I can read. And sorry just a researcher thru degree and profession so it's kind of my thing. But yes the board is for opinions and discussion and you are more than entitled to be wrong

go99 wrote:

hanallalone wrote:I think practice is VERY important as well...  I just feel like games are where you truly see what your hard work was for...  You've gotta do both, but too much theory without application seems to hinder creativity in my experience...  I think we have skewed off target enough, so I will graciously exit with an endorsement for Paddy at Odyssey...  That man would train 7 mornings a week and play games every afternoon if he could (so we would both be covered)...  He truly loves to coach!

The problem here is that you think your opinion has as much value as leading soccer minds knowledge.  There isn't a single source that suggest what you are saying is true.  Wenger from arsenal, Fergusen from ManU, coaching staff from Barcelona, Pep Guardiola, Ajax etc have all come down on the side of more practice fewer games for youth players development.  The game has minimal learning as a player.  It is nothing more than the "test" to see what needs to be worked on in practice.  Development is done in practice.  Either you are correct and have figured out the key that the entire rest of the soccer world has not or you are completely wrong

No problem at all with your logic Hanallalone. Your team is the top team in CL and you play in many games and are well known by all as a very quality side with excellent soccer skills.

Castro plays in many games also and is one of the top teams in the Nation also and the common thread between all these teams is frequent competition.

Small sided games and daily scrimmages are competition and they are the reason why the top teams and the top players never lag behind and why others never catch up. Quoting wenger and other international coaches who Don't actively coach youth players and who pay lip service to the idea of academy but don't actually use their own product does not say a lot about the quality of their ideology.

Conventional wisdom is never going to make a world cup winner for team USA so keep on doing the things that make your players succesful and don't forget to add a healthy dose of competition.

Your pilot analogy was spot on and competition is at the heart of development and exactly what we mean when we say the "GAME" is the best teacher. When I hear that "Practice" is the best teacher I will be sure to look it up.

Player development is based on a players ability to master the 4 pillars that are fully utilized in a competitive setting. Practice is preparation for a game and competition is where you learn how well you have mastered the 4 pillars.

Based upon my experience the DA provides some benefits Classic League does not but each parent and players has to determine if its worth it.

At DA, you will practice more and be seen more. Meaning, there will be US National Team Scouts at some of your games and college coaches will be all over the showcases. National team stuff doesn't really apply to but a small few, but a player can't say they didn't have a chance to be noticed if they play in the DA. The top levels of US Soccer will see you play.

Last U16 DA game I attended at a showcase had over 70 college coaches there, with a lot of D1 coaches. Haven't heard the same for Classic league games.

In my personal, very subjective view, I also think the level of play is higher at DA games than Classic League games. There is more of an attempt to play good soccer and less kick and chase and chaos on the field. The recent Classic league games I have seen at the U14 and up level have been hard to watch. ( again subjective)

go99 wrote:I'm not bent out of shape at all and don't have to talk to pep I can read.  And sorry just a researcher thru degree and profession so it's kind of my thing.  But yes the board is for opinions and discussion and you are more than entitled to be wrong

My wife couldn't have said it better herself!

Lol!

protayus wrote:

davito wrote:What benefit is there to being in the SCPL?

Unless there is increased training and removal of financial barriers isn't it just another travel league trying to be more elite than Classic League?

To add on to PLF and 13, I'm a full on proponent of SCPL and the value it has added to a handful of our 03 LP teams and players. It gave us a great chance to combine talent from other LP teams who chose to participate, and let talented players train and play together in a competitive league. For our team specifically it helped add an element of competing for your spot, which is always needed and often lacking when you only have 1 - 3 players on the sideline. On top of that all the boys had a blast and came out with new friendships. Only regret was two late PK's from bad hometown refs in OK, I would have loved to see both NTX teams representing at regionals.

I would say the same for SRPL, and we've tried to treat it the same as SCPL. There is definitely a ton of talent within our club and anything that gives us a chance to let it build on itself is a plus for the players and teams involved.

Honestly it's hard to see how PA would have been better for us then the combination of games and competition from Classic, SCPL, & SRPL. Instead of gutting the talent from a handful of teams (Other big clubs come to mind here), I think you can definitely say it has added value to 4 or 5 of the LP teams competing in classic.

The way LP and Odyssey were treated that one weekend in Oklahoma was CRAZY! I have never seen such obvious home cooking, and it is unfortunate that LP lost those games because they are the better team and deserve to be moving on to the next round... We played the exact same Tulsa team a month later and we thumped them easily (and we were even missing key starters)... Anyhow, the weekend that LP was robbed, we experienced the same thing but barely came out on top due to some stellar play... That LP team has some wheels and seem to be getting stronger every time I see them...

I see City FC (Ody) is doing well in U13 SCPL.

Played 6 games, won 3, lost 1, tied 2. Scored 15, conceded 3.

It got me wondering how SCPL compares with CL. So I looked at Ody first 6 games in CL.

Won 4, Lost 0, tied 2. Scored 16, conceded 3

Remarkably similar, especially on the goal counts. So I would conclude from this that the competition level is similar to what we have here in NTX. And it looks like Oklahoma and STX are getting challenged more in terms of stepping up to a higher level.

We have played 3 teams in scpl.  Twice each.  One was very ungood.  One was like a hard CL matchup.  The LP Scpl team was prob better than anyone we have played this year.  To protayus point about benefits of bringing kids together.   No games vs stx teams. No cakewalk overall, but mostly not much data.

All in all the SRPL games have been more interesting.  STX teams seem to be front runners there.   The local 2nd place NTX team is in 9th place.  Nothing special about NTX, especially when you remove a lot of top players from equation.  

Quite sure non of these teams would beat the best group of similarly aged kids from Solar or FCD.  Who are on the DA track.

Pretty funny the goals are so similar but I guess the data is statistically meaningless if only played 3 teams twice.