Andromeda are out of ussf Academy Next Season

I do like a 2 teir system though. I wouldn't make it MLS exclusive though. Locally I would make it FCD and LP. Teams that could financially make it work. Make it fully funded nationwide league. And push out college scouts and bring in pro and international scouts. As the cost goes up the need to recoup expenses from players becomes more important and the willingness to fly a kid around the county because the parents have put in the political capital. Then all of the other DA teams would be resposible for the college development and can be parent funded

let's be candid here. The DA isn't getting all the best players. The DA only covers at best maybe half the soccer population in this country. Clubs are awarded DA status based on the size of their clubs (that deliver the most revenue to USSF) and doesn't have a damn thing to do with player development.

The MLS academies aren't much better. The NCAA compounds the problem because of eligibility restrictions.

There's no real financial incentive for the clubs to develop players. The ussf is quite hypocritical in their approach. They mandate "development" yet it's all about organizing leagues and emphasizing team results. Yeah, it is possible to win and develop players. But that isn't what's happening. American soccer is built around team development and results.

There is no discernible style of play. It's built around athletic, direct play.

I'd rather see a more free market approach. Every pro and semipro club in this country should have an academy.

Second, I'd like to see pro/rel implemented. A true pyramid of interconnected leagues. It is possible to pursue a college degree while also playing for a top level amateur/developmental team. It happens everywhere else in the world.

i would like to see an allstar type team or group of 24 boys for that next tier training. theorectically we get that at the YNT level but as go says, that doesn't even begin to represent the best in a country as large as USA. each state or region for smaller areas could have their own 24-40 allstars to train and compete with only other allstar teams and YNT across the country. from these teams (maybe total of 200 studs) YNT could come up with best 22 or so.

A separate MLS professional player development system/league will come one day. It's inevitable. When that happens, the US will finally turn the corner on creating world class players.

Good = Select/HS
Better = DA
Best = Pro Club

finish1 wrote:A separate MLS professional player development system/league will come one day. It's inevitable. When that happens, the US will finally turn the corner on creating world class players.

Good = Select/HS
Better = DA
Best = Pro Club

if only it were that simple.

Club teams are built around convenience and who can afford it.

DA clubs/teams pick the (perceived) "best" players that show up, tryout and can afford the expense.

Pro clubs are NOT (nor is ussf) actively scouting the whole country looking for players that have pro potential. They get a percentage of the best players in their local market.

Then there's the whole issue of pi$$ poor talent 'selection'. Not identification.

Speaking of coaching, the level of actual talent in this country has far surpassed the level of coaching.

Again, clubs could mostly care less about player development. They care about pleasing their 'customers' and increasing revenues for the club.

So, bottom line is we do not have 'professionals developing "professionals" in the US.

It is an amateur system and that is why our national teams underachieve.

Until we get away from this closed loop system and have pro/rel we will continue to waste talent and otherwise embrace mediocrity.

Here's a start http://m.timbers.com/youth/2015/03/building-pyramid-how-portland-timbers-academy-structuring-player-development-part-i

LOL! SDR, that's you third post of that article, including two separate threads.

Read the part where it says they play independent teams in league play at older ages. That's where their pyramid scheme gets exposed. Their league play should be with other pro clubs inside and outside their region.

I'll add that Pro Academies should also have their own tournaments for high level visibility.

Hey, GO, see how we are taking the top 2% and moving them up a tier? This is how it should be.

finish1 wrote:LOL! SDR, that's you third post of that article, including two separate threads.

Read the part where it says they play independent teams in league play at older ages. That's where their pyramid scheme gets exposed. Their league play should be with other pro clubs inside and outside their region.

I'll add that Pro Academies should also have their own tournaments for high level visibility.

Hey, GO, see how we are taking the top 2% and moving them up a tier? This is how it should be.

LOL. if we couldn't share out entrenched beliefs over and over with virtually zero flexibility or compromise this forum would have died years ago.

finish1 wrote:LOL! SDR, that's you third post of that article, including two separate threads.

Read the part where it says they play independent teams in league play at older ages. That's where their pyramid scheme gets exposed. Their league play should be with other pro clubs inside and outside their region.

I'll add that Pro Academies should also have their own tournaments for high level visibility.

Hey, GO, see how we are taking the top 2% and moving them up a tier? This is how it should be.

Ah but see there is the catch. You were talking about moving the MLS clubs up a tier not moving the top 2% of players there is a difference. Moving FCD up a teir will only serve to make them a bigger political mess than they already are.

Just enjoy the game if the kid is meant to be a pro he will be found underneath a rock if they have too. Cudos

SDR- If you take a look at the bottom of the Timbers Pyramid (Timbers Alliance Clubs), this is what I've been talking about for the past several years. FC Dallas needs to spread themselves out through a network of alliances across our region, even locally through city soccer associations.

Also, I noticed how they have embraced ODP as another source of aggregating talent. Vey smart move as some folks can't afford the high cost of Select soccer and ODP is great choice for ID. The Regional Training Centers pull the top talent together at the younger ages and prepares them for Academy at U16 and U18.

FC Dallas needs to get on the front side of the equation and lead the way to the future of youth soccer in the U.S.

Recruiter- I've never been a big fan of random discovery.

finish1 wrote:SDR- If you take a look at the bottom of the Timbers Pyramid (Timbers Alliance Clubs), this is what I've been talking about for the past several years. FC Dallas needs to spread themselves out through a network of alliances across our region, even locally through city soccer associations.

Also, I noticed how they have embraced ODP as another source of aggregating talent. Vey smart move as some folks can't afford the high cost of Select soccer and ODP is great choice for ID. The Regional Training Centers pull the top talent together at the younger ages and prepares them for Academy at U16 and U18.

Yes Finish! Those are some great things to be doing. Instead of hating on their attempt to find more talent othe forum members should acknowledge the positive of this program.

There are two things at the top of the list that must happen if we want to take the next step toward developing true professionals.

We have to adopt a buy/sell system that enables clubs (all clubs - not just MLS Academies) to view players as an investment not revenue. The revenue needed can come from the younger age groups, but once they hit 14-15 they should be playing on the clubs dime and viewed as investment.

The other is we have to do away with the stupid age restrictions that we seem to place on players. I know it isn't a written rule, but it seems to be followed by most clubs. If a kid is a great 14 year old (and if they are seen as an investment) he should be moved up to whatever age level he can compete at. If it U16, great...if its the U18 team then even better. This is the biggest difference between us and the rest of the world. The great players have to constantly be given a new challenge. The best 15 year old in Texas or California is not going to ever develop to be a potential world class player competing against his own age group for the next 3 years. This only works if the player is viewed as an investment as in my first point. You can live with playing a 15 year old a little out of his depth if you knew it was going to reap financial rewards in the end.

I agree with the assessment regarding the buy/sell theory. The problem is that independents don't offer pathways to the pro leagues in the same way an MLS franchise can.

Regarding age restrictions, the only one I am aware of is the U10 to U11 restriction, which I agree is stupid. Beyond that a player can advance to his ability. Especially if they are introduced to the National Team.

finish1 wrote:I agree with the assessment regarding the buy/sell theory. The problem is that independents don't offer pathways to the pro leagues in the same way an MLS franchise can.

Regarding age restrictions, the only one I am aware of is the U10 to U11 restriction, which I agree is stupid. Beyond that a player can advance to his ability. Especially if they are introduced to the National Team.

i think the point being made is in usa a coach can't just do what he believes is best for players and club or country; for fear of being fired or losing support of players/parents. look at klinsman and the heat he is taking for playing diff people and experimenting with youth etc

Klinsman should be taking heat for his style of play. It's very direct and over the top with little use of connecting passes into the attacking third. This is not Germany, it's America. Our size and speed doesn't have the required skill level to move the ball the way the German National Team does. Polar opposites.

Looking at the youth players I have seen selected for the NT, IMO he is still recruiting for the same tactic. Again, my opinion until proven otherwise.

The first sentence about club/country/parents and fear is a cop out. It's the default escape clause for those unwilling to create change.

IMO

slrsoccer2 wrote:

The other is we have to do away with the stupid age restrictions that we seem to place on players.  I know it isn't a written rule, but it seems to be followed by most clubs.  If a kid is a great 14 year old (and if they are seen as an investment) he should be moved up to whatever age level he can compete at.  If it U16, great...if its the U18 team then even better.  This is the biggest difference between us and the rest of the world.  The great players have to constantly be given a new challenge.  The best 15 year old in Texas or California is not going to ever develop to be a potential world class player competing against his own age group for the next 3 years.  This only works if the player is viewed as an investment as in my first point.  You can live with playing a 15 year old a little out of his depth if you knew it was going to reap financial rewards in the end.

FC Dallas has kids in the 11-14 range that play up sometimes in PA and Classic League. But this poses a problem in our pay to play system at this age. I would assume the paying parents are not too thrilled that the young starlet is playing up on their team while their kid rides the pine.

davito wrote:

slrsoccer2 wrote:

The other is we have to do away with the stupid age restrictions that we seem to place on players.  I know it isn't a written rule, but it seems to be followed by most clubs.  If a kid is a great 14 year old (and if they are seen as an investment) he should be moved up to whatever age level he can compete at.  If it U16, great...if its the U18 team then even better.  This is the biggest difference between us and the rest of the world.  The great players have to constantly be given a new challenge.  The best 15 year old in Texas or California is not going to ever develop to be a potential world class player competing against his own age group for the next 3 years.  This only works if the player is viewed as an investment as in my first point.  You can live with playing a 15 year old a little out of his depth if you knew it was going to reap financial rewards in the end.

FC Dallas has kids in the 11-14 range that play up sometimes in PA and Classic League. But this poses a problem in our pay to play system at this age. I would assume the paying parents are not too thrilled that the young starlet is playing up on their team while their kid rides the pine.

I agree with doing away with age restrictions. Problem is, talent identification being what it is...it's sometimes better to be a bigger fish in a shallow pond. Because you have to really stand out.

Plus, you have to be realistic about it and there should be a balance. If the kid is a physical specimen (and that's their main strength) then having them training and doing some guest playing with an older group can be very good for the player.

By the time they reach 16 and have gone through the initial stages of puberty, that is the time to start challenging them. It also depends on the player's position. Creative, attacking players tend to start peaking at a younger age. Defenders not so much.

16/17 is generally when you start seeing overseas academy players start to be moved up to the u19's, reserves and by 18/19 the best are moving into the first team. Very gradually though. Again, for every Fabregas, Rooney, Messi or Neymar (obvious outliers) there are hundreds that really don't play first team ball consistently until the age of 21.

The player's path isn't a straight line progression.

There has to be a balance between success (confidence and developing the creative game) and challenging them to increase speed of play. (Playing at a higher level.)

Needless to say this is where quality coaching comes into play. Honestly, I don't think there many coaches in this country that know how to manage that. There have been too many cases of MLS clubs signing an academy player as a teenager and the player ends up struggling for years to reach the level they need to be.

I think that the trend of MLS teams having reserve teams in the USL (or affiliations) will end up being beneficial to developing 18-22 yr old players. More and more top players will be skipping college and going into the minor leagues. (Hopefully MLS and USL will be able to invest in the players' educations as well.)

any updates with this subject? im hearing some more rumors but just waiting for some andromeda parents to confirm?

Was told that Liverpool will get this slot in 2016.

I heard about some players jumping ship recently. Now it makes sense.

I think it's a good thing that USSF is willing to shake up the bottom of the league. It keeps things fresh.

Good luck to Liverpool. They've worked hard to build a viable franchise over a long period of time.

Liverpool has been telling its parents for several years that they would very shortly have either PA or DA teams.  What exactly makes you think its any different this time and not just typical marketing talk from Liverpool, Liverpool coaches, or their supporters?

What I've seen is Andromeda taking steps to shore up their development platform by signing an agreement with LFS for LFS to provide Select/PA/DA quality boys to Andromeda at u11/12.  That sounds like a club looking to the future, not one about to lose their premier teams.

I don't have a dog in this fight but am curious where these "rumors" are coming from and what has been done to substantiate them above the level of just a "rumor"?

SnookumsConCarne wrote:Was told that Liverpool will get this slot in 2016.

So, is that next season 2015-16 or 2016-17?

Is there an agreement between Liverpool and Andromeda to form USSF Academy teams? Does the team name become Livermeda or Andropool?

Again, what are the reasons for the expulsion? And it seems a little weird that after one year of club funding and thus enlarging the circle of talent, that they would chuck out a club.

DragonStryker wrote:Liverpool has been telling its parents for several years that they would very shortly have either PA or DA teams.  What exactly makes you think its any different this time and not just typical marketing talk from Liverpool, Liverpool coaches, or their supporters?

What I've seen is Andromeda taking steps to shore up their development platform by signing an agreement with LFS for LFS to provide Select/PA/DA quality boys to Andromeda at u11/12.  That sounds like a club looking to the future, not one about to lose their premier teams.

I don't have a dog in this fight but am curious where these "rumors" are coming from and what has been done to substantiate them above the level of just a "rumor"?

Well @DragonStryker, the "rumor" came from the coach himself.
If it's just a "rumor" then, Fool Me Once.

@earbucket, it's supposed to be 2016-2017.

okay there is no joint venture between andro and liverpool. As much as I thing LP deserves a spot they will not be taking the andro spot. It was decided that NTX would be reduced to 3 teams and since andro was the newest they were the one that would be cut.

However U12 and I believe U14 will be expanding and you could find both andro and LP in those leagues. U16 will be reduced even further with U18 reduced even more than that.

Apparently this is not just a NTX thing. Cuts will be made all over the country

Oh and the U12 isn't next season but the one after that

In order not to start yet another rumor, LFS = Left Foot Studio. My comment was based on this article from last week: LFS-Andro Partnership