US Soccer changes ( Age Pure)

[quote="Sprint"][quote="Number13"]

allen04 wrote:
Harrison Bergeron weights  

Thanks for the laugh! Too funny. Vonnegut fan, eh?

forward thinker wrote:

Thanks for the laugh!  Too funny.  Vonnegut fan, eh?

Well, when you live in the dystopian society that is NTX soccer, you got to laugh to keep from crying.  

End of the day, when you do things in 365 day increments, somebody ends up as the youngest kid by a reasonably large amount.   And is at a disadvantage.  Its that way in all sports, school or select.   You can cheat it for school and give your kid the Southlake redshirt if you want.   But its always there.   Changing the calendar just makes it different soccer kids.    Hard to complain much about it if you were ok with how it was before.  

For 99.9% of the kids its not a huge deal.   You should be able to play soccer and have fun and compete against kids that are a bit older than you.   And some of the younger kids will be very good, maybe even very very good.   But, when it really gets down to picking the elite of the elite, its going to overwhelmingly lean towards the older kids.   Especially if you start that process around puberty.   In soccer, that process is unchanged...its always been based on calendar year. That is just the way it goes.   And it probably doesn't apply to most of us.   It sounded like USSF is trying to initiate programs to try to shift the at least a portion of the ID'ing to a 6 month cycle to try to help the "younger" kids.   But whatever.

On a lighter note, Michael Bradley's birthday is July 31st. So he would have been the very youngest growing up. He turned out to be pretty good. Having Bob Bradley as your dad was probably beneficial.

Pardon my cynicism but has anyone looked at what this will do to the quality of coaching??? Let me give you a hint, there will be even less proficient coaches available than there are now.

So you take an existing 12 person roster team designed for 7v7...and now they have to play 4v4.
Doing the math, if everyone plays the same amount of time, your kid is only playing a third of the time.
No one will be happy for that and folks will start shopping.

If you have 8 quality teams and they end up trimming their rosters from 12 to about 8, you have 32 "paying kids" with no team.
No club is going to let that happen so they go find coaches off the street to keep the kids.

I get what the they are trying to do but when you don't have the culture/society/resources/passion for the sport then this is just taking a 4th or 5th place sport and weakening it further.
This is just a bad idea all the way around....

1 "quality" coach, 12+ on roster; 2 back-to-back 4v4 games on same field. 1 group of the 12 plays primarily in 1st game; 2nd group of the 12 plays primarily in 2nd game. No refs required. No scab coaches needed to fill the void. Parents still paying money. SDL has already done similar for smaller sided leagues.

Apologies to A. Iverson; but academy soccer is more about practice. Yes; I am talking about practice.

Coaches won't give up that $$$$. They will take the same 16 players, and do 3 back-to-back games, or have an assistant to "coach" the bottom third team....

Quantity over quality. Got it!

This is all so stupid. Both changes will decrease soccer interest in America. Go Mexico on Oct 10th!

Improvement should be way more about practice. Training coaches to run quality practices. Practice should be all about quality touches. Allen Iverson was wrong

Just train Futsal till U13 and you'll be much better off. The level of coaching here is plain awful when it comes to the small sided soccer game I'm afraid. I can't imagine how all these British dinosaurs are going to approach the small sided game. No wonder the EPL is going to Futsal as the training program for all youth teams and are bringing in the Spanish to help get the system going. They recognize the short comings of their own game which the NTX system is based on. Big Fast & Strong rules the day. We may produce a player or two despite ourselves.

I think someone touched on it earlier, but back in my day it was birth year as opposed to school year. I remember a lot of kids that were on the younger half of year and a grade lower, left with trying to find new teams their senior year when the older half of the team left for college.

striker6 wrote:Just train Futsal till U13 and you'll be much better off. The level of coaching here is plain awful when it comes to the small sided soccer game I'm afraid. I can't imagine how all these British dinosaurs are going to approach the small sided game. No wonder the EPL is going to Futsal as the training program for all youth teams and are bringing in the Spanish to help get the system going. They recognize the short comings of their own game which the NTX system is based on. Big Fast & Strong rules the day. We may produce a player or two despite ourselves.

back here on planet football I would have to say that futsal is not the sport that is used to develop the worlds greatest soccer players, but thanks for the message because for some players futsal will be a good alternative to soccer.

"The influence of Futsal isn’t restricted to the current set-up at the Camp Nou, either; their fierce rivals in Madrid count on a graduate of the game in Cristiano Ronaldo, and all-time greats including Pelé, Zico, Socrates and Diego Maradona all hail it’s development prowess. This is underlined by the fact that any youngsters who join Barça’s infamous La Masia “Football Factory” play nothing but Futsal before progressing to 11-a-side."

This may not qualify as planet football, but you can read the rest of the article here: http://www.futsaluk.net/2015-06-08/the-role-of-futsal-in-barcelonas-5th-european-cup

earbucket wrote:"The influence of Futsal isn’t restricted to the current set-up at the Camp Nou, either; their fierce rivals in Madrid count on a graduate of the game in Cristiano Ronaldo, and all-time greats including Pelé, Zico, Socrates and Diego Maradona all hail it’s development prowess. This is underlined by the fact that any youngsters who join Barça’s infamous La Masia “Football Factory” play nothing but Futsal before progressing to 11-a-side."

This may not qualify as planet football, but you can read the rest of the article here: http://www.futsaluk.net/2015-06-08/the-role-of-futsal-in-barcelonas-5th-european-cup

This year's futsal national champion was a soccer team. futsal supporters love their sport but it is not soccer and you will not be able to change that regardless of how much you love your sport.

Different ball, different goal, different sport.

Here is a link to new Masia and as you can see there are soccer fields clearly visible. Not playing soccer on a pitch until you are 11v11 disqualifies any credibility of the article you posted.



http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/facilites-and-services/detail/card/technical-details-of-new-la-masia

Klinnsman clearly has a goal...make more and better coaches (we don't need former athletes and stars to coach 5-10 year olds - we need people who know the game and how to teach it). The kids need small sided faster moving scaled down versions of the adult game in competition. Simple. First, he needs Dad's off the sidelines and into the classroom...whoops. We may have found the problem.

PLF we usually agree on most things although I think you've got this one wrong. For field players, maybe not goalies, there is no better way to develop. Everyone in the world recognizes this except maybe NTX. As you point out the game is different but that's like saying the kids in the Dominican Republic who grow up playing baseball with broomsticks and bottle caps don't turn out to be good baseball players because its a different game. I think mostly NTX just doesn't want to recognize Futsal as the development tool it is. Probably because the old guard doesn't have control of it. It's clear that US Soccer is noticing.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:

earbucket wrote:"The influence of Futsal isn’t restricted to the current set-up at the Camp Nou, either; their fierce rivals in Madrid count on a graduate of the game in Cristiano Ronaldo, and all-time greats including Pelé, Zico, Socrates and Diego Maradona all hail it’s development prowess. This is underlined by the fact that any youngsters who join Barça’s infamous La Masia “Football Factory” play nothing but Futsal before progressing to 11-a-side."

This may not qualify as planet football, but you can read the rest of the article here: http://www.futsaluk.net/2015-06-08/the-role-of-futsal-in-barcelonas-5th-european-cup

This year's futsal national champion was a soccer team. (What nation?) futsal supporters love their sport but it is not soccer and you will not be able to change that regardless of how much you love your sport.

Different ball, different goal, different sport.

Here is a link to new Masia and as you can see there are soccer fields clearly visible. Not playing soccer on a pitch until you are 11v11 disqualifies any credibility of the article you posted.



http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/facilites-and-services/detail/card/technical-details-of-new-la-masia

Just for you PLF.

"Like a vintner identifying a lovely strain of grape, a cognoscente like Dr. Emilio Miranda, professor of soccer at the University of Sao Paolo, can identify the futsal wiring within famous Brazilian soccer tricks. That elastico move that Ronaldinho popularized, drawing the ball in and out like a yoyo? It originated in futsal. The toe-poke goal that Ronaldo scored in the 2002 World Cup? Again, futsal. Moves like the d'espero, el barret, and vaselina? All came from futsal. When I told Miranda that I'd imagined Brazilians built skills by playing soccer on the beach, he laughed. "Journalists fly here, go to the beach, they take pictures and write stories. But great players don't come from the beach. They come from the futsal court." One reason lies in the math. Futsal players touch the ball far more often than soccer players—six times more often per minute, according to a Liverpool University study. The smaller, heavier ball demands and rewards more precise handling—as coaches point out, you can't get out of a tight spot simply by booting the ball downfield. Sharp passing is paramount: the game is all about looking for angles and spaces and working quick combinations with other players. Ball control and vision are crucial, so that when futsal players play the full-size game, they feel as if they have acres of free space in which to operate. When I watched professional outdoor games in Sao Paolo sitting with Dr. Miranda, he would point out players who had played futsal: he could tell by the way they held the ball. They didn't care how close their opponent came.

As Dr. Miranda summed up, "No time plus no space equals better skills. Futsal is our national laboratory of improvisation." In other words, Brazilian soccer is different from the rest of the world's because Brazil employs the sporting equivalent of a Link trainer. Futsal compresses soccer's essential skills into a small box; it places players inside the deep practice zone, making and correcting errors, constantly generating
solutions to vivid problems. Players touching the ball 600 percent more often learn far faster, without realizing it, than they would in the vast, bouncy expanse of the outdoor game (where, at least in my mind, players run along to the soundtrack
of Clarissa tootling away on "The Blue Danube"). To be clear: futsal is not the only reason Brazilian soccer is great. The other factors so often cited—climate, passion, and poverty—really do matter. But futsal is the lever through which those other factors transfer their force. When Simon Clifford saw futsal, he got excited. He returned home, quit his teaching job, and founded the International Confederation of Futebol de Saldo in a spare room of his house, developing a soccer program for elementaryand high-school-age kids that he called the Brazilian Soccer School. "

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-9419-0-0-0&sID=271458&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=28106431

Oh and sorry to hi-jack the thread but in the end the change to age pure only upsets the folks who have bb's like mine born in December who go from the oldest to the youngest all of the sudden. Whatcha gonna do...not much. just keep playing.

Small sided games with a soccer ball is what will help in addition to core development and technical brilliance with a soccer ball.

Playing a weighted ball on a basketball court doesn't smell like soccer to me

Well we can disagree agrreably on this one. I will continue to fall on the side of almost every great player in the world, and almost every large soccer nation and almost every large club including the EPL who is adopting it as their youth development program.

I don't see the futsal revolution that you are talking about, but when the academies plow their fields under for indoor gymnasiums I will be the first to disagree with that type of training.

I know some great soccer players that are excellent futsal players too, but I don't know any futsal only players that magically start bending the ball into goal like the pro players and there is no corollary for short bunched up play on a basketball court that compares to a grass or turf pitch.

Futsal is great for soccer forwards like handball is for goalkeepers, but that is where the value lies. If your first day on the pitch is 11v11 at 13 years old I would argue that your player would be at a disadvantage.

 I put Judo, Handball and Futsal in the same category as training aids or adjuncts to a soccer player.

I am one of those who believe that the game is the best teacher, but I also believe that adjuncts like Futsal have a place in the development process.

I agree Futsal is just a training tool too. I think using small spaces some days and larger other days depending on the topic and focus of the session . The game changes all the time and nations rise and fall as power houses . I am interested , and I may come across as stupid here, but how many world class players have came through barcalonas youth academy recently that are actually playing? I know they had messi , Xavi , iniesta, etc back in the day come through. But who are the big name products playing now? It seems like they just purchase their talent.
I think the key is identifying the talent . If you watch "class of 92" that is what Alex ferguson talks about . Man Utd produced a dynasty with world class talent . Their training methods were very British .
The end of the day I have been around the game for a long time , nothing is going to change . The kids that would be the best in the old system will still be the best in the new . The coaches that create a quality training environment will continue to do so, the coaches that do not will continue to produce a poor training environment .
There are so many ways to play this game successfully , there really is no right or wrong. It's a game of opinions .

Heard from a friend Classic League had a meeting last night with clubs to discuss the age changes. The plan I have been told is to have the bye stay with the teams when they go age pure, but the teams will move up a year.

For example, a current D1 (03) classic team will be moved to (02) next year because they have some Aug-Dec birth year kids. Basically everyone moves up a year, but this then allows the coaches of those teams to go get Jan-Aug 02 kids for those teams where they couldn't before. The younger kids will have to play with kids over a year older to stay on their teams.

I'm sure it will change between now and when they implement it in Aug 2016, but it sounds like this is the plan.

Yes that's what I have heard to. It is the most common sense way to handle changing the age groups .

Sprint wrote:
For example, a current D1 (03) classic team will be moved to (02) next year because they have some Aug-Dec birth year kids.  Basically everyone moves up a year, but this then allows the coaches of those teams to go get Jan-Aug 02 kids for those teams where they couldn't before.  The younger kids will have to play with kids over a year older to stay on their teams.
 

Essentially, a current 03 team plays in the U13 age group and is formed by kids born after Aug. 02. Next year it will be a U14 team and it will change its name to 02. Kids born after Jan. 02 will be allowed to join the team. I can bet that the kids born in early 03 will be very much sought after by the 03 coaches, and encouraged to leave the old team by their current coach who would not want to miss the opportunity to add older 02 players.
The same will happen for all age groups.
It's going to be a stressful process and many teams will see big changes.

Any roster change limitations; i.e. must keep 75% of original roster or anything like that in play?
I can't ever remember the roster requirements and club guide lines to keeping bye's.

Booya22 wrote:Training coaches to run quality practices. Practice should be all about quality touches.

I think this is where the focus should really be.
The top coaches have already incorporated small sided scrimmages into their practice routines.
They are the top coaches because they found a way to teach both technical and tactical/strategic.
They produce players who are not only skilled, but also have a high soccer IQ at a young age.

The sad thing is this grand experiment will not prove to be right or wrong for quite a few years, if not a decade.
By that time, you could have have poisoned a generation of future players.
The US National team will not have a player that has come up through this system for another 5 or 6 years.
The folks coming up the next 3 years will be kids who came up the "old way".
After that you have the kids forced into the transition but started out in the "old way".
Only after all that will you see any kids brought up using this system.
What happens if the current progress we've seen with the USNT starts going to crap in the next 8 years?
The current leadership would have came and went and the new leadership will vow to "make it better" and change the system yet again.

The best approach would have been to work with the clubs to change how the kids are coached and trained.
Education programs for the coaches/parents/kids, Certifications with incentives, etc.
Other sports have gone this direction but why couldn't soccer?
As it seems with most governing organizations these days, it is easier to mandate something rather than address the real issue...