Size doesn't matter in the long run

No Ronaldo would be everyones dream player pace size and strength.  Total package

But I have always liked the little guy more.  Maradona and Messi are some of my favourites of all time short in stature but big in heart and play bigger then they are.

"Size doesn't matter" "pace size and strength." "Total package"

Are we trying to up the female interest on the forum?

It was supposed to be a response to Best Youth teams some how it didn't post properly. Though the title must have the moms somewhat interested.

Check that out if you want to talk about size (no no no, don't even think about getting a good underground porn link from me, this is just about soccer):
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/undrafted-cardenas-examines-mls-process_aid32446

gababa wrote:Check that out if you want to talk about size (no no no, don't even think about getting a good underground porn link from me, this is just about soccer):
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/undrafted-cardenas-examines-mls-process_aid32446

After reading the article I wonder if teams are changing and looking to give the little guys a chance. Being short in stature you have to be twice as good for them to give you a look. I just took a look at FC Dallas roster

Danny Garcia 5'5 no first team minutes
Adnres Escobar 5'6 no first team minutes

2 of their 29 man roster is 5'6 or shorter.

We do have a couple of 5'7 guys with minutes Benitez ( a starting defender no less plays a lot bigger then his 5'7 but won't win headers over the 6'4 trees. Mauro Diaz 5'7 Starting Midfielder.

So my conclusion based on one team ( not a good sample) is that 5'6 no chance 5'7 you could start there is the cutoff.

Dr. Says my boy probably won't be taller then 5'6. So he has to drink milk everyday, and do we need to get a stretching machine to get that extra inch. No more working on skills need to get that extra inch.

Lionel Messi 5'7 (really not sure he looks a little shorter) but he really wanted to be picked up in the MLS after his career at FCB is done.

Diego Maradona didn't stand a chance in the game being a petit 5'5 but those were different times and the heightism wasn't to the level that it is today. Where is Jessie Jackson for the little people that want to play the beautiful game in the US. " Yes they Can", "Yes they Can'....

David Ferreira was the MLS league MVP playing for FC Dallas in 2010. This giant stood a whooping 5'5". The teams only other league MVP, Jason Kreis, was 5'8", same size as Landon Donovan (considered the best American of his generation) and Pelé (perhaps you've heard of him).

Standing 5'9", football, baseball and certainly basketball didn't seem to be that great of options for me growing up. So glad I had soccer to turn to!

CoachPaul wrote:David Ferreira was the MLS league MVP playing for FC Dallas in 2010.  This giant stood a whooping 5'5".  The teams only other league MVP, Jason Kreis, was 5'8", same size as Landon Donovan (considered the best American of his generation) and Pelé (perhaps you've heard of him).

Standing 5'9", football, baseball and certainly basketball didn't seem to be that great of options for me growing up.  So glad I had soccer to turn to!

There is "hope" for us vertically challenged people

I can see how height affects defense, but beyond that how is height an advantage in the midfield? A tall player offensively can push his body in the direction of goal but a short player can weave in and out of tall players and get into space with speed and agility. Tall players have an advantage on headers and physicality. Sergio Aguero 5'7 absolute destroyer on the pitch and completely unaffected by the giants in EPL defense like Per Mertesacker.

IMO there is room for at least 4 small players per team at all times on the pitch. Height is needed for GK and Defenders and some set play headers.

I Don't buy that 5'6 is much less than 5'7 and I would argue that 5'9 is short against 6'5 so I categorize the short and tall more relative than others.

if you are 5'2" or smaller don't hang up your boots....Work on your speed and agility and your soccer IQ and productivity will get you a spot.

I think you answered part of it....height is also associated with speed (those tall, lanky bodies). If a team wants speed and heading ability in forwards...they may look to the taller guys as long legs can cover a field quickly.

I know there are exceptions to every rule, but coaches have stereotypes and tall is associated with BSF???

Oh boy. These are great comments and arguments for those giant killers out there at the professional ranks. All you hear in NTX soccer related to boys still growing is size, speed, technical ability now. Our coaches now often say "it's NTX soccer, we have to be bigger stronger more technical to compete at a high level."

As PLF says above, don't hang up the boots and continue to work. But you will likely have challenges to get NTX coaches give them the initial chance to make a difference. It takes all types to make a team what it is.

CoachPaul wrote:David Ferreira was the MLS league MVP playing for FC Dallas in 2010.  This giant stood a whooping 5'5".  The teams only other league MVP, Jason Kreis, was 5'8", same size as Landon Donovan (considered the best American of his generation) and Pelé (perhaps you've heard of him).

Standing 5'9", football, baseball and certainly basketball didn't seem to be that great of options for me growing up.  So glad I had soccer to turn to!

Again only listed one player outside the 5'6 barrier of the MLS. 5'7 and 5'8 are giants. Loved David Ferreira, but I have a thing for short folks ( I married one wife is 5'3)   

CoachPaul wrote:David Ferreira was the MLS league MVP playing for FC Dallas in 2010.  This giant stood a whooping 5'5".  The teams only other league MVP, Jason Kreis, was 5'8", same size as Landon Donovan (considered the best American of his generation) and Pelé (perhaps you've heard of him).

Standing 5'9", football, baseball and certainly basketball didn't seem to be that great of options for me growing up.  So glad I had soccer to turn to!

playing devils advocate, david ferreira also could not take the punishment dished out on him and it killed his career. being knocked off the ball constantly is hard to play with. i will always take the bigger kid if all things are equal soccer wise...

To truly understand the size love in American soccer a study should be done looking at all the players on each team in the MLS and their impact on the team ( reserve vs starter minutes and stats) This process would be a daunting review but could probably be done. The point and question is and again I love the vertically challenged but size and pace does matter. You may have you Messis of the world but the CR’s have a higher chance of success. Now what is a short player and where the cutoff is depends on the era. In today’s modern game players are getting bigger and faster. So the lower statue player must adapt their game to be quick and skillful. If you are going to play against Goliath be David. There is room on teams for every type of player depending on what your trying to do. If your big play big, if your small play small. The question is does it help. Numbers probably will support that being big fast and strong helps over be small slow and a little overweight. At the end of the day it’s not track and the skilled player can succeed in spite of height. However, height plays a roll how big a roll depends on the player.

My impression is that quickness and not full 100 yard sprint is what is needed for soccer ie the ten yard sprint. So lateral moves and short burst of speed is what matters for most situations in soccer. Having a low center of gravity and a fast twitch muscle fiber helps a lot! So if you are tall and have a great coordination, balance and fast twitch muscle then you have the foundation.

Marvelousmar wrote:To truly understand the size love in American soccer a study should be done looking at all the players on each team in the MLS and their impact on the team ( reserve vs starter minutes and stats)  This process would be a daunting review but could probably be done.  The point and question is and again I love the vertically challenged but size and pace does matter.  You may have you Messis of the world but the CR’s have a higher chance of success.  Now what is a short player and where the cutoff is depends on the era.  In today’s modern game players are getting bigger and faster.  So the lower statue player must adapt their game to be quick and skillful.  If you are going to play against Goliath be David.  There is room on teams for every type of player depending on what your trying to do.  If your big play big, if your small play small.  The question is does it help.  Numbers probably will support that being big fast and strong  helps over be small slow and a little overweight.  At the end of the day it’s not track and the skilled player can succeed in spite of height.  However, height plays a roll how big a roll depends on the player.

Great post!

The reality of the tall German player implementing the La Liga approach to the game is being incubated over at Bayern Munich. I think what you will find is that Guardiola will have a huge affect on the game itself if he gets the Giant German footballers to play like the smaller players (relatively speaking of course). My guess is that this approach will be more like a fusion than a mirror image, but then again, I never thought a 6'5" Jamaican would be the worlds fastest man either.

What I am more excited about is the response that will come from this fusion if it succeeds in the Champions League (aka results in dominating wins and a final top result.) and how that will play out in the future. I don't see the rest of world giving up on the game and redirecting their efforts towards increasing player heights, but I do see them creating a new strategy to offset player height and that is an interesting and exciting direction for international football.

So how do you control the big players that are also fast and skilled? I believe the answer is to take the ball away from them and play possession style soccer like Barcelona does. Thoughts?

Real Barcelona wrote:So how do you control the big players that are also fast and skilled? I believe the answer is to take the ball away from them and play possession style soccer like Barcelona does. Thoughts?

Ah there in lies the beauty. Barcelona plays the game of keep away better then anyone else. But it becomes a chess match see Chelsea and see the new German combination of blitzburg counters off possession. Chosen possession.

It's a conflict it styles and some styles work well. Would Barcelona dominate the EPL. I say know. ( I love Barcelona) but I don't think it would work week in week out in England. (Could be wrong but then again that's the beauty of this discussion) To beat Barcelona you have to be willing to give them the ball and counter quickly. ( BFS kid anyone.)

Champions league is fun because you will see it again hopefully we get FCB ( Spain) vs FCB (Germany) should create the best that Football has to offer and require discipline on both teams.

Some players I think of as small are David Silva, Aguero, Modric, Fabregas. But they are listed as 5'8", 5'8", 5'9", 5'10" respectively. Just emphasizes how big the rest of the players on the pitch have become when 5'9" looks small. A lot of the smaller players tend to be very stocky which makes them quick, powerful and harder for the giants to knock off the ball. Think Aguero with thighs like tree trunks.

I remember watching Dennis Wise play for Wimbledon, Chelsea, Leeds and England in the 80s and 90s. He was truly tiny. Not sure I believe he really was 5'6" plus he was slightly built and not especially quick. But he had enough skill (plus the dark arts he learned at Wimbledon) and an eye for a pass to win 21 caps for England. However, I don't think he would prosper today as athleticism has become increasingly important in the game. He would need to bulk up and/or have more speed if he was going to be that small now.

PremierLeagueFan wrote:

Marvelousmar wrote:To truly understand the size love in American soccer a study should be done looking at all the players on each team in the MLS and their impact on the team ( reserve vs starter minutes and stats)  This process would be a daunting review but could probably be done.  The point and question is and again I love the vertically challenged but size and pace does matter.  You may have you Messis of the world but the CR’s have a higher chance of success.  Now what is a short player and where the cutoff is depends on the era.  In today’s modern game players are getting bigger and faster.  So the lower statue player must adapt their game to be quick and skillful.  If you are going to play against Goliath be David.  There is room on teams for every type of player depending on what your trying to do.  If your big play big, if your small play small.  The question is does it help.  Numbers probably will support that being big fast and strong  helps over be small slow and a little overweight.  At the end of the day it’s not track and the skilled player can succeed in spite of height.  However, height plays a roll how big a roll depends on the player.

Great post!

The reality of the tall German player implementing the La Liga approach to the game is being incubated over at Bayern Munich. I think what you will find is that Guardiola will have a huge affect on the game itself if he gets the Giant German footballers to play like the smaller players (relatively speaking of course). My guess is that this approach will be more like a fusion than a mirror image, but then again, I never thought a 6'5" Jamaican would be the worlds fastest man either.

What I am more excited about is the response that will come from this fusion if it succeeds in the Champions League (aka results in dominating wins and a final top result.) and how that will play out in the future. I don't see the rest of world giving up on the game and redirecting their efforts towards increasing player heights, but I do see them creating a new strategy to offset player height and that is an interesting and exciting direction for international football.

So true about Mr. Bolt, back in the day they thought you could get a 6'5 sprint to get out of the blocks and have the turnover. Then came a freak. MM why do I get the picture of Ibrahimovic when I think of Bolt ( Bolt also see himself as a footballer as well what if he had touch. Who the heck would cover him on the flank.

Real Madrid plays more on the counter and has not been able to dominate Barcelona. Any suggestions for Ancelotti ? He will need all the help he can get! BTW Ancelotti has never implemented his system of 4:3:2:1 at Real Madrid. I guess he does not have the right players for the system he wrote about and is adapted to what the players he has.

the problem with size in america can't be measured with isa players that make it to the pro level. we need to go back to youth soccer u9-u14, when 11 months between oldest kid on team and youngest kid on team is a HUGE (no pun intended). to many younger players are being "pushed off the ball" thus pushed out of competitive soccer. some younger smaller players succeed. but many more falter and never make it to high school ball. i don't want to hear about the exception (messi). messi would have been overlooked and possibly not have made it US soccer

Size is much less important than speed. And speed of thought/technical speed is even more important.

Really, it comes down to the role a player has. Small very technical/tactical players can succeed as central midfielders. (Xavi, Fabregas, etc.) Speed is of utmost importance for outside backs.

Size is somewhat important for central defenders. But there have been some outstanding central defenders of average or even below average height. Cannavarro, Mascherano, Puyol and from a while back...Gabriel Heinze.

Wingers and attacking mids depend more on technique and speed than anything else.

Personally, I think the quick, shorter, technical players actually have an advantage.

This is why I get frustrated when naïve, misinformed types start claiming that "our best athletes" don't play soccer. It's as if that alone is the answer.

The American sports mindset of size/speed/strength stems from basketball and throwball.

One has to have the right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability in order to reach the highest levels.

Laimport wrote:Size is much less important than speed. And speed of thought/technical speed is even more important.

Really, it comes down to the role a player has. Small very technical/tactical players can succeed as central midfielders. (Xavi, Fabregas, etc.) Speed is of utmost importance for outside backs.

Size is somewhat important for central defenders. But there have been some outstanding central defenders of average or even below average height. Cannavarro, Mascherano, Puyol and from a while back...Gabriel Heinze.

Wingers and attacking mids depend more on technique and speed than anything else.

Personally, I think the quick, shorter, technical players actually have an advantage.

This is why I get frustrated when naïve, misinformed types start claiming that "our best athletes" don't play soccer. It's as if that alone is the answer.

The American sports mindset of size/speed/strength stems from basketball and throwball.

One has to have the right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability in order to reach the highest levels.

what advantage does a soccer athlete have IF HE HAS THE "right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability" AND HE IS 6 INCHES TALLER THAN HIS MATES? your argument is so one sided!!! yea there are plenty of small kids that succeed but to call it an advantage is ludicrous...

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:Size is much less important than speed. And speed of thought/technical speed is even more important.

Really, it comes down to the role a player has. Small very technical/tactical players can succeed as central midfielders. (Xavi, Fabregas, etc.) Speed is of utmost importance for outside backs.

Size is somewhat important for central defenders. But there have been some outstanding central defenders of average or even below average height. Cannavarro, Mascherano, Puyol and from a while back...Gabriel Heinze.

Wingers and attacking mids depend more on technique and speed than anything else.

Personally, I think the quick, shorter, technical players actually have an advantage.

This is why I get frustrated when naïve, misinformed types start claiming that "our best athletes" don't play soccer. It's as if that alone is the answer.

The American sports mindset of size/speed/strength stems from basketball and throwball.

One has to have the right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability in order to reach the highest levels.

what advantage does a soccer athlete have IF HE HAS THE "right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability" AND HE IS 6 INCHES TALLER THAN HIS MATES? your argument is so one sided!!! yea there are plenty of small kids that succeed but to call it an advantage is ludicrous...

You end up with a freak such as Ibrahimovich!

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:Size is much less important than speed. And speed of thought/technical speed is even more important.

Really, it comes down to the role a player has. Small very technical/tactical players can succeed as central midfielders. (Xavi, Fabregas, etc.) Speed is of utmost importance for outside backs.

Size is somewhat important for central defenders. But there have been some outstanding central defenders of average or even below average height. Cannavarro, Mascherano, Puyol and from a while back...Gabriel Heinze.

Wingers and attacking mids depend more on technique and speed than anything else.

Personally, I think the quick, shorter, technical players actually have an advantage.

This is why I get frustrated when naïve, misinformed types start claiming that "our best athletes" don't play soccer. It's as if that alone is the answer.

The American sports mindset of size/speed/strength stems from basketball and throwball.

One has to have the right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability in order to reach the highest levels.

what advantage does a soccer athlete have IF HE HAS THE "right combination of technique, brains and athletic ability" AND HE IS 6 INCHES TALLER THAN HIS MATES? your argument is so one sided!!! yea there are plenty of small kids that succeed but to call it an advantage is ludicrous...

You might want to reconsider your answer.

If you look at the best 1v1 attacking players(known for their skill) in the history of the game, this is what you come up with:

George Best
Maradona
Pele
Messi
Ribery
Tevez

My point is that shorter players have a lower center of gravity..which gives them an advantage when dribbling. And if they have quick feet all the better. They are harder to tackle the ball away from.

To my knowledge the vast majority of world class dribblers have been of average height or shorter.

I don't think a 6"2 guy has an inherent advantage over a 5"6 guy.

Granted I'm talking about attacking mids, wingers and some forwards.

Now, if you want to discuss height advantages with say, defensive mids and central defenders...then maybe you have a point.

Thiago Silva is widely regarded as being the best central defender in the world right now. He is listed at 6 feet tall and around 170 lbs. But I seriously doubt he is even that size. I'd say closer to 5"11 and maybe 160.