So. . . this is it?

We did ODP this year, and I've got to say that I'm confused.  The boys practice all year just to go to a camp?  They didn't play any games.  (There's a 'sub-regional event' coming up, but no info on that yet.)  The competition at the practices is 'D2-ish' according to my son, but 'sort-of fun if you like nut-megging people.'

Snappy uniforms though.

What age group? I'm assuming 02/03? If so, an email went out about 2 weeks ago for the Alabama camp in July.

Right--the camp info went out several weeks ago (older group). That's why I'm wondering if this is all there is to it--you go to a camp. I thought they'd be playing other ODP teams from other areas once a month or so.

From my few years in ODP it is a waste. The people picking the teams lack either the desire or ability to put together the best team. There are players on the top team that just aren't very good, while solid players with a head for the game are banished to the lower ranks. At a practice last week, a player from the top ODP team came to a D1 tryout and was so out of place it was sad. While a few stand outs on that D1 team are on lower level ODP teams. I'm not an expert by any means, but it is so obvious.

Also, I have also gone to a camp and noticed that play time and "allstar" status was giving to the chaperones kids even when their ability lacked. I used to think the low cost was worth at least the practices, but now I believe it was a complete waste this year.

I also thought it was odd when my son mentioned that the coaches would ask which club the boys play for, what league/division, etc.

Oh well, maybe the camp will be utterly amazing. . .

I've heard the regional camp is good, but this is first dip into ODP, so I am not aware of the favoritism angle, but definitely cognizant that a lot of the NTX talent is playing in academy/pre-academy. From my son's point of view: 1) playing games against other states sounds like a blast and 2) time away from parents--priceless.

Yes, we got the camp email a couple of weeks ago then they choose alternates if first options opt out. Yesterday, we received the Ntx sub-regional tournament email. It's iur first year also, scheduling is difficult at times but it's pretty much whst we expected. The schedule is posted online so I knew the tournament was supposed to be June 6th-8th and it is.

As far as games once a month, it doesn't replace club and it's not a league like PA or Classic. I see it as a compliment to what we are already doing with club and at home and think of it as a marathon not a sprint.

It should be a fun time for everyone, the boys will get to travel, compete against other states and represent our region.

The June tournament will allow them to sort out their team game and we will have first look at who and what we have.

ODP is a positive experience and looks good on a player's football resume. I am looking forward to seeing how it all plays especially since some of the top player's from D1 classic are participating and will be highly motivated to show off their ability.

We declined going to camp this year... my son like the trainings, although the 01 group has had numerous cancelled events. He said that he would rather not do ODP next year... the drives can be very far, and he just wants his Sundays back. I wasn't going to argue with him.

DoubleBBs wrote:
Also, I have also gone to a camp and noticed that play time and "allstar" status was giving to the chaperones kids even when their ability lacked.  I used to think the low cost was worth at least the practices, but now I believe it was a complete waste this year.

Does this really qualify as low cost training?  The cost for the ODP season averaged across 10 sessions isn't bad, but with all the rain-outs and re-schedules I'm not sure how many made it to all or even most of the sessions (we sure didn't).

The $600 cost for the Arkansas camp seems quite expensive for what is effectively 2.5 days of training (and maybe 12-15 hours on the field?).  It would have been nice if they offered a lower cost option for people driving themselves or carpooling with others.  Arkansas doesn't provide transportation, and their ODP player cost for same camp is only $275.

So did you think ODP was worth it or not for your BB? Did you gain anything from the experience? Was the Arkansas camp good for BB's development?

PremierLeagueFan wrote:So did you think ODP was worth it or not for your BB? Did you gain anything from the experience? Was the Arkansas camp good for BB's development?

Worth it?  Everyone will have their own opinion on that based on a variety of personal factors.

For my BB, I felt the training sessions we did attend were reasonably good and he seemed to enjoy them.  I'm not distraught about the cost, but we missed several sessions and it's a long/expensive drive to Arlington for us.  So from a pure time/money ROI standpoint it probably wasn't a great deal compared to other soccer training opportunities.  We did enjoy meeting and catching up with players / parents from other teams, and it's always good for BB to train and compete with other players at his position to help gauge where he's at.  That was the main value I took from it.

Ultimately we declined the Arkansas camp invite.  Would like to have attended for the reasons you mentioned, but the timing wasn't good for us and the costs were a factor also.  I'll look forward to hearing from you and others who are attending afterwards about the experience.

thats pretty much "IT". my BB received some good training and it will be nice on his resume. he wasn't selected for alabama camp first year and was allowed to go last year as an alternate only after others declined or had conflicts. while there he was spotted by regional coaches that saw his "game" and selected for the regional pool. my experience is the odp coaches don't do the best job recognizing talent and as some have already testified, some of the kids ranked over my son couldn't have played for his APL club team......

PremierLeagueFan wrote:So did you think ODP was worth it or not for your BB? Did you gain anything from the experience?

I didn't really notice much training at the training sessions. A bit of juggling, some 2v2, then some scrimmaging. All largely undirected. Which, whatever, BB enjoys soccer and he didn't seem to mind. But you kind of figure at some point you are expecting some (any?) level of coaching, not just field rental and the convenience of having 100 kids together at one place. The whole thing could have been organized by a 2nd grade teacher and it would have been the same effect. $300...5 training sessions....an unused uniform and backpack. Yippee! Maybe I'm used to a little more coaching from my coach. A little "hey maybe pass the ball instead of going 1v4 again" would have been a good start.

But hey, screw it, off to Alabama. Why waste $300 when you can waste $1300? ODP seems to be a serious endeavor in large portions of the country. Weather and a lack of any competitive matches didn't do this year any favors, perhaps there is really some grand plan for NTX ODP whose glorious mission will become more apparent in the future. Holding breath.

I think the training was marginal at best. Most of the players can't execute an overlap, well, or anything strategic. It's purely take the ball 10 yards, get tackled, lose the ball, one-on-one to the goal. I saw no tactical instruction whatsoever during practices. I do have to mention that this year in the 01s was better than last year. However, I'm with everyone else that the drive to Arlington is not worth the effort. I thought it was strange that with that many boys out there that they couldn't do some "official" scrimmages from time to time. I guess they thought that was what practices were, but truthfully most of the time it looked like herd ball to me.

How much does personal responsibility play into this? The older kids get, the more they tune out authority figures (coaches).

Did the practices involve small-sided games--yes for the sessions that my son attended. Did they have scrimmages allowing the kids to work on things learned in small sided games--again yes. Did my son enjoy it all--heck no and thought much of the training was underneath his level. But after watching a scrimmage and seeing the hodgepodge of skillsets between booters and possessors and panickers; how else could a coach approach it. And the ODP coaches gave us such wisdom as...If you are a national player you put the ball in the back of the net; if you are a regional player you put the ball on frame; and if you are a North Texas player you lose the ball and it goes the other way.

To me it comes down to personal responsibility What did you set out to accomplish--improve your weaker foot or shielding or touch and so on. With that approach, it is a win-win and worth the money.

Our experience with the 00 group was good last year and bad this year. My son did go to the camp in Alabama last year, and had a lot of fun. Still I had to force him to sign up for this year. Every time I had to drag him to ODP practice as he said it was so boring and most f the other kids were very bad at soccer. At the end, I just gave up and not even considered sending him to the Alabama camp. Mostly after I heard that even kids that have been selected to be in the regional team had never been called for any training or event. ODP may work for younger kids, or for kids who want some extra touches. But unless they change drastically how it is run, it is a waste of time for the more talented and skilled kids. Too bad, tough.

I used ODP for my son to get exposure to different coaches and players. Different coaching techniques and to recognize what you like and don't like from a coach. It also made him be independent, anything from, hey, can we kick the ball around? i'm to taking direction and turning it into action. It's done what I wanted it to. The tolls and gas were more expensive than the program itself I think. It requires a lot of time, arriving early, driving over an hour each way... I just expected to see small groups of players working in stations and then translating that to the field. There's no shape to the teams, just one guy trying to poke the ball through and put it in the net. Basically very little direction, and a lot of the stuff they were teaching was learned in club three years ago. This is how you pass across the back....really?

Number13 wrote:
But hey, screw it, off to Alabama.   Why waste $300 when you can waste $1300?    ODP seems to be a serious endeavor in large portions of the country.   Weather and a lack of any competitive matches didn't do this year any favors, perhaps there is really some grand plan for NTX ODP whose glorious mission will become more apparent in the future.  Holding breath.  

I think playing at the University of Alabama should be a fun experience.and from the posts I've seen it looks like there are BB's from the top 5 in 03B Classic going so it will be interesting to see how these league rivals come together as a team.

I thought that it was interesting that there are evaluations at the camp that will allow BB's to get picked for the Regional Pool which can lead to selection on the national team that travels to international fixtures and gains BB exposure to additional coaching and college scouts (assuming the planets align, etc.) so I think the money is worth it and I hope others will post about the experience on the forum like some of the other parents and BB's that went last year.

Its my understanding that the Alabama thing as a whole is for '01 birth years and older.  Texas will be taking some 02/03 kids to play against the '01 birth year teams.  I cannot imagine that will go very well from a competitive standpoint, no matter how well these kids come together as a team.   Which is fine.  Also my understanding that Regional teams will be for 01 and older, so not really an option for the 02/03 kids and I don't know if they will be formally evaluated or not.  Four days of soccer and getting your butt kicked should be a good learning experience.  Four days of desperation kickball and ballhogging by overmatched kids who have zero interest in playing as a group might just make you want to get kidnapped by your parents and run off to Gulf Shores.  So who knows.

The ARK camp was sold as more training/development.  With kids your own age.  On the surface that sounded like more of a slam dunk to be enjoyable.  

The only competitive ODP matches pre-camp are the same weekend as Supercopa thing so that kind of prevents the kids I know from playing in them.

For those of us on non-PA/DA clubs, it would be kind of cool if ODP was a viable option to get exposure to coaches and good players and possibilities bigger than your local club team.  But thus far, despite having a pretty good player pool, it has largely underwhelmed.   Ymmv.

As far as personal responsibility, I would put that more at the foot of the 35 yr old expert teacher than the 10 yr old student.  If you see a hodgepodge of screwups and, as a teacher in that discipline, just throw up your hands and say "I give up"....then maybe you should not be getting paid to be a teacher.

My son is his 4th year of ODP (99). This is the best year so far. New coach. He coaches at Richland College. Good practices and has set out scrimmages against vs Classic and Academy teams throughout the year.
Also planning multiple practices before heading to Alabama. This is by far the most committed coach we have had. If he is back next year, so will we.
ODP cost is an issue. I still think NTX should subside most of it.
Son loves the fact he gets to represent North Texas vs other states.

Never kept the same coach two years in a row! What about everyone else?

soccerpapa wrote:My son is his 4th year of ODP (99).  This is the best year so far.  New coach.  He coaches at Richland College.  Good practices and has set out scrimmages against vs Classic and Academy teams throughout the year.
Also planning multiple practices before heading to Alabama.  This is by far the most committed coach we have had.  If he is back next year, so will we.
ODP cost is an issue.  I still think NTX should subside most of it.
Son loves the fact he gets to represent North Texas vs other states.

The 00s had the same coach this year and my son LOVED him. But the problem is that the poor coach had to teach fundamental skills like passing and controlling the ball to most kids. My son is at a higher level already and he got bored anyway. The 00s have too many kids, if they had selected only 20 very good kids we would keep going. But not with 60 kids who for the most part lack basic skills that should have been developed already at this age. Also I think paying almost $ 1000 for the Alabama camp is too much. And my son would love to represent NT vs other states but he'd rather do it with his club team. It is very unfortunate that NTX does not subside ODP and relies on the fees payed by the parents. They should have a much smaller pool of players, of higher level and committed to the ODP team.

I ran into the whole "I'm at a higher level than these other kids and this is a waste of time" thing with my oldest (now graduated) back when he was a u12/13/14 and struggled for a bit with how to respond to him.

Ultimately, I told him that if he was so much better than the other kids, that any drills that were done, he should be doing them meaningfully faster, with meaningfully better touches, and meaningfully less mistakes than the other kids. And if he wasn't, he clearly had room to improve himself and that before I was willing to listen to him tell me how poor the other players were, he better not be able to find any faults in his own game.

Once he started approaching every practice session with that mindset, the level of the other kids no longer bothered him as much. Scrimmages were still painful for him but I simply challenged him to put his teammates in better positions to succeed given the skillsets they had. It meant he needed to focus on delivering passes to his teammates that put them in a better position to move with the ball in traffic. It meant delivering crosses more accurately. It meant better touches for him. It meant when he got a shot on goal, he made the most of it. It meant he didn't let himself get out of position tactically.

What he finally figured out around u14/5/6 was that while his skills were very good, they could always improve substantially and that the quality of the kids around him was only marginally important to his personal improvement.

Biggest regret, not pushing this work ethos on him earlier. I think he'd have progressed faster had he not focused on how slow the other kids were, how poor their passes were, and how often they lost the ball when he was younger.

DragonStryker wrote:I ran into the whole "I'm at a higher level than these other kids and this is a waste of time" thing with my oldest (now graduated) back when he was a u12/13/14 and struggled for a bit with how to respond to him.

Ultimately, I told him that if he was so much better than the other kids, that any drills that were done, he should be doing them meaningfully faster, with meaningfully better touches, and meaningfully less mistakes than the other kids.  And if he wasn't, he clearly had room to improve himself and that before I was willing to listen to him tell me how poor the other players were, he better not be able to find any faults in his own game.

Once he started approaching every practice session with that mindset, the level of the other kids no longer bothered him as much.  Scrimmages were still painful for him but I simply challenged him to put his teammates in better positions to succeed given the skillsets they had.  It meant he needed to focus on delivering passes to his teammates that put them in a better position to move with the ball in traffic.  It meant delivering crosses more accurately.  It meant better touches for him.  It meant when he got a shot on goal, he made the most of it.  It meant he didn't let himself get out of position tactically.

What he finally figured out around u14/5/6 was that while his skills were very good, they could always improve substantially and that the quality of the kids around him was only marginally important to his personal improvement.

Biggest regret, not pushing this work ethos on him earlier.  I think he'd have progressed faster had he not focused on how slow the other kids were, how poor their passes were, and how often they lost the ball when he was younger.

This is excellent! All we hear about is more competition, tougher league play, etc. etc. etc.

I believe a player can develop and improve WITHOUT having to be on a "top' team!

There's a lot to be said for successful "repetitions" with the ball. Without the built in pressure of playing within themselves to get a specific result. I personally feel and believe that promotion/relegation type league play stunts players technical and tactical growth. Especially at u14 and below.

I do believe there is a time and place for a player to be taken out of their comfort zone and stretched technically and tactically. But every game shouldn't carry the weight of a state cup final. A player needs both success and a modest amount of challenge/failure to grow as a player.