The state of soccer in North Texas

The title of post said 'State of NTX soccer', so I thought I was going to read about 5 teams (boys/girls) winning Region III and moving onto Nationals and the awesomeness of talent in the area!

Laughed at the tired, old threads on the cost and hourly rates of a coach and complaints that club focus is on profit and not development.

So, don't pay. Play rec. examples are - dont buy a BMW and complain that the car costs too much! Shut up and buy a Yaris! Don't send your kid to TCU or Baylor and complain the price is too high as Professors are making $10,000 per hour teaching. Comminity College might be a better option!

Get back to complaining about the Dark Lord's hostile takeover of Indy clubs and fat refs not moving more than 5 yards in a game!

And there in lies the problem the key word Fund raisers and sponsors.

5 pounds a week works out to be 360 per kid. vs about $1,000 per kid here for juniors(under 12 equivalent to juniors here) Sponsors covered the clothing. If they were around that would help. (Fundraising amounts helped to reduce that difference as well I bet) So the difference over the pond to here probably isn't as far when you add those items in.

Their is a different football culture there with massive pro clubs that run the pro youth setup primarily because of the potential transfer fees. They can put $100,000 per year into an age group for one star that pays for the club investment. Yes it's about development over there but the clubs are looking for a financial reward for their development probably a lot more then they are around here. The system here isn't set up that way because the proc clubs are just getting off the ground. It may revert to that way some time in the future here. However, were a way away from that day.

IlikeEPL wrote:The title of post said 'State of NTX soccer', so I thought I was going to read about 5 teams (boys/girls) winning Region III and moving onto Nationals and the awesomeness of talent in the area!

Laughed at the tired, old threads on the cost and hourly rates of a coach and complaints that club focus is on profit and not development.

So, don't pay.  Play rec.  examples are - dont buy a BMW and complain that the car costs too much!  Shut up and buy a Yaris!  Don't send your kid to TCU or Baylor and complain the price is too high as Professors are making $10,000 per hour teaching.  Comminity College might be a better option!  

Get back to complaining about the Dark Lord's hostile takeover of Indy clubs and fat refs not moving more than 5 yards in a game!

Dang I do like that comment. We do suck in North Texas from what I have read every day and every night in this forum.

Dallas Kicks 01 Girls
Sting 00 Girls
Sting U18 Girls
Solar Red U15 Boys
FC Dallas U17 Boys.


Our ODP program is also a joke from what is said here.

01's girls made up the 2nd highest number of players at the Sub Regional Pool so our development is really really bad.

We compete well outside of the state, our 02/03 boys won every match at the ODP camp in Arkansas.

I think the state of North Texas Soccer is improving, Let's wish the above teams going to nationals good luck. Let's look to see what we can do to take the teams to the next level. Go Texas Go. ( Hey and I am not even from the state)

plano04b wrote:

Rightback wrote:Posts like this are getting old. Not that hard to do something constructive...and many teams charge less than $1k. You can opt out of the merry to round if you want.

That's so constructive.  Thank you for your brilliant and insightful contribution to this discussion.  If only knew what a "merry to round" was.

Ah,a critic. And from Plano no less. I am sure I will be inspired by your dramatic contributions and insights. In the future I will make sure autocorrect meets your expectations. My point, and consistent with my many posts over the years, is that there are those who take action and those who quit and do nothing...and then post on this site whining about how unfair it all is...spare me.

Here's what I would love to see:

1a. Home Associations keep on their website a list of all teams registered with their association. Why not? Wouldn't it be easier for players to find teams by just going to the home association website, look up their age group, and be given a list of teams to contact? Why has it taken so long to do something like this? I didn't know of all the teams, and I still don't, that play around here. Not just good info for players, but what about teams looking for friendlies? That would be a great resource as well! I couldn't tell you the number of times I was contacted by folks looking for teams that I don't coach, but my name was the only one on the list. If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't have been able to help any of those players out. I took their info, searched this forum for teams that could fit, and shipped your all's info off to those players...hopefully, some of you picked up some new players.

1b. Along the lines of 1a. home associations also keep on their website a player's pool list. More folks probably contact the association first, looking for teams. Why not take their info and put it on a list, this time so teams could have a place to look for players. Because I don't know about you, but when I finally got my home association to advertise that my team is looking for players, you wouldn't believe the number of folks that contacted me that didn't even fit the requirements. I have a Under-15 boys team...that means no girls and especially no 30 year olds! Frustrating when your request isn't advertised appropriately.

2. Home associations work to share this info across all associations (obviously if it's on the web, it would happen, but you always get those few that feel it necessary to lock info down).

3. Home associations have more involvement with the player development process. I hear the complaint is the clubs are too big with no regulation. I hear "Why doesn't the USA have a better development program for players". Well, it's because no one is doing anything about it. Now, I'm sorry if I've ruffled some feathers on that statement, but I have yet to see anything here in the States for player development that's as close to any of the Rest of World leagues. My proposal, home associations would be your "district" level identification managers. All teams playing for a home association, one of their goals would be to win the district. The home association would then identify players from the top team, as well as any other outstanding performing individuals from other teams for regional development. These players would be formed as a district team, lead by the winning manager/coach from each district to play against the other districts at the regional level (NTSSA). Individuals from the winning regional team, and again other outstanding performing individuals from the other regional teams, would again form now a state team, lead by the winning manager/coach. Now States compete, and guess what? These players, who fought hard to get to these levels, begin to farm the next US level teams. It's a pipe dream, I know...but I believe it helps to ring the clubs that folks feel are wasting precious development and progression time from deserving players. Done right, it could also help to alleviate the costs because now managing organizations (home associations, regional associations, NTSSA, etc.) would be involved. Teams would be working to compete to progress up the chain, where they would get more support from organizations in the form of sponsors, etc. Because if you're picked to represent your district, or your state, etc. don't you as the supporting organization want to show off your goods? Don't you want to be the ones to say "Hey, look at us! We've got these great teams and players and they're winning at all these levels!" Then I think you could see something that maybe US soccer is currently missing in it's player development program...PRIDE! Yes, we've been proud of what we've just accomplished...but when has the US taken pride in ensuring the development of players is done properly...I think we may be just starting to see that now with Jurgen taking over. By the way, this is just one possible option...we could always go the route of the the top three teams represent at the next level up and keep going up as long as they stay top three, with the bottom three being relegated, etc. Boy that system sounds familiar...

Anyways, I just want us as a Nation to get better and I want this area of Texas to lead the charge...If anyone is in the DFW area, once I get my team together, whenever that happens cause I can't find players that I know are out there, hit me up and let's get some friendlies going! And I'm not talking scrimmage crap...I'm talking play a game with refs involved and afterwards kick back, shoot the bull, and devouring some brats and beers...well...sodas for the kids of course!!!

If you go to the league websites (CCSAI, PPL, APL) you can see the teams that are listed in the ranking and go to their gotsoccer page for team stats (if listed).

There are player lists on some of the club websites, but that is not always consistent in all club sites.

Considering that we pay for training it is a disappointment that club teams don't consistently maintain player and team stats.

ODP is designed to access talented players in an open forum independent of club affiliation, but there are many coaches and clubs that downplay ODP participation because it competes with their programs.

I am surprised by the number of top teams that are looking for players and cannot even make a simple connection with the existing player pool because of a lack of good communication between potential candidates and teams searching.

I keep hearing that all parents want is to put their players on the top teams, but in reality some of the best teams are still looking for players and unable to fill their rosters.

I wish the associations would force teams to consistently maintain player data so we could get a realistic idea of where our player pool is moving (up or down) in each age group.

I wish we could have inter-league play to see what the pyramid looks like even though there would probably be some blowouts, but the rules of each league promote exclusivity which prevents that from happening.

I like your thinking PremierLeagueFan!

And I agree with you that if you know where to look, then yes you can dig out the information for teams...but why not just simplify the process of team lists and player lists with direct links to the lists.

My jury is still out on ODP. I believe the intention of ODP is good, but the execution is poor. Especially if coaches and clubs are downplaying what should be considered a prestigious opportunity. How a coach or club wouldn't want to be associated with ODP is beyond me. Again, this leads back to my comment on pride within and for the US development program. I've seen folks overseas knocking down the door to play for their national teams...not so much for US soccer. Somewhere between youth and pro the process is broken.

And it's a damn shame if we can't have inter-league play! Who the hell thought exclusivity was a great idea? How are clubs and teams and leagues supposed to get better if we can't push and challenge each other? You say "blowouts"...I say, then more work needs to be done to close the gap. But that's just me, I guess...cause I want to learn what makes others good and I want to share that with my players and if we can, incorporate those learning opportunities. And then I want my players to share that with the next generation and then the next and so on. So why, why, why close ourselves off?

Anyone at any time that wants to know how I teach the game is more than willing to ask and I'll share...for the good of the game!

First, yes, soccer is way too expensive and exclusionary.

Second, yes there are overrated coaches, teams and even players.

Third, how many of these players are truly committed to training (outside of team sessions) 5-6 days per week? Year round?

College soccer is a continuation of pay-to-play. (Partial athletic scholarships, camps, etc.)

All that said, the simplest reason to play soccer is that the kids love it and want to be the best players they can possibly be.

Not necessarily what they are going to get from it financially. The vast majority of athletes in other sports participate knowing full well they aren't going to play beyond high school. Yet they do it anyway.

Sure, there needs to be some sweeping changes. The level of coaching/player development being at the top of the list.

But as long as the market is willing to shell out hundreds and thousands of dollars, this is what we get.

NTX has a very structured, yet wasteful system of youth leagues. By now most should realize it isn't producing better players. In fact, it probably does more harm than good.

Another point worth mentioning is that club teams in other states may have lower fees, but they end up spending as much if not more in travel expenses.

Vast majority of DFW based teams do not travel overnight. (Unless you consider Arlington to Richardson or Frisco "heavy travel"

The clubs(ie coaches) provide 2 practices a week that is structured to develop the team and an evaluation of that team effort on the weekends (ie the game). The parents and or the players need to fill in the gaps with additional training the other days of the week with skills, drills, fitness etc because the coach and club WILL NOT PROVIDE IT. Some clubs or coaches will offer the service for additional fees (at a nominal 50 to 100 $$ per hour) but it is not included. So parents and players, get together in parks, basketball courts etc and work on your skills, first touch etc via pick up games or otherwise. Call your buddies and have fun with pick up games. Make it a social gathering and go out for an ice cream after breaking a sweat for about an hour. I assure you that you WILL improve as a soccer player. It is upon the parents and the players to get better. The coaches are there to FACILITATE the players development NOT to take FULL responsibility for the players development. Having said that, quite a few coaches in NTX are not facilitators but actually a hindrance to development and should not be coaching.

So many interesting thoughts here. I find my self a bit conflicted. Being a "D" lisc coach (retired), a grade 8 referee, a parent of a child on a D2 Classic team, manager of that team and a board member for a "home association" I have to look at these thoughts from many different lenses.

Do I think we pay too much for club soccer, yes but as pointed out I do not think houses in Frisco should be worth more than the exact same house built in Justin. People are willing to pay the cost to get what comes with that house cost.

Do I think there are coaches who demand high fees but do not deliver an equal value, yes but the again there are others who deserve more.

Should "youth academy players" pay the same amount as normal recreational players. Our association does charge a discount to academy players but I do understand why rec associations charge those fees. Youth academy was created to enhance the rec player to get them prepared for a greater level of competitive soccer. Not to replace the recreational experience. The original desire was to have the academy players who received the extra training to be able to return to rec team and then the players who could not afford academy could still benefit from playing with those players. That system failed.

Should parents be blamed? I see some logic to that but still do not feel that is the key.

America is materialistic. It is about money and prestige. In America, youth see the athletes who receive money, prestige, sex symbol status are the football, baseball, basketball players. The stronger athletes are attracted to that. While I would love to get paid to play any level of soccer I am not sure the salaries really stand out against some of the alternatives.

Yes there are exceptions to that rule just because the love for a certain sport is that high within the athlete.

An idea I would like to see, the fee/coaches salary based upon the level of play for the team. Teams/coaches in Classic D1 getting paid a bit more than D2. If a coach either by skill, knowledge hardwork, blind luck or whatever has created a team that can make D1 they should get paid more than a team that competes in D3 Arlington or Plano. Create reasons for coaches to develop to become better coaches in order to make people want to pay the higher fees to play on that team. Classic D1 league fees can be higher than D2 etc.. Heck ref fees to do D1 and D2 games could be higher than other levels to try to attract better referees. This is off top of head and probably has many holes I have not considered.

Now we're having good conversation! The original post that started all of this was a rant...but the last few threads from PremierLeagueFan, Laimport, and FanOfSon were very good info! Thanks for sharing, I know your perspectives have helped me have a little better understanding of soccer in this area. Yes, I just moved here (retired military), but this will be my home and I want to know what's up with soccer in this area, so again thanks for filling me in.

Real Barcelona, I guess I'm just not used to what you mentioned in your thread. I do, in fact, wholeheartedly agree with your statement "So parents and players, get together in parks, basketball courts etc and work on your skills, first touch etc via pick up games or otherwise. Call your buddies and have fun with pick up games. Make it a social gathering and go out for an ice cream after breaking a sweat for about an hour. I assure you that you WILL improve as a soccer player." I promote this as much as possible as a coach and parent. This was well said!

With respects to your other comments "The clubs(ie coaches) provide 2 practices a week that is structured to develop the team and an evaluation of that team effort on the weekends (ie the game). The parents and or the players need to fill in the gaps with additional training the other days of the week with skills, drills, fitness etc because the coach and club WILL NOT PROVIDE IT. Some clubs or coaches will offer the service for additional fees (at a nominal 50 to 100 $$ per hour) but it is not included... It is upon the parents and the players to get better. The coaches are there to FACILITATE the players development NOT to take FULL responsibility for the players development." In my experience, this statement describes rec league teams. 2 sessions a week, 1 game on the weekend, up to players to develop themselves beyond that. Again, not saying you're wrong or right, but more that it's sad if this is the way Club/Select soccer is organized around this area!

Every place I've ever been in the world (and being retired military I've been a lot of places) to include other areas of the United States, what you describe is NOT how Club/Select soccer is managed. I was last stationed in California where what you described matches rec league perfectly. Club soccer out there was 4 training sessions a week, game on weekend and coaches were not just facilitators! They were paid to develop players, that's what they did, or they quickly lost players to other clubs/teams that did. It's just my opinion, and we all know about opinions, but if you are a club/coach of a select/competitive team it's your job to develop the players, not facilitate! If I wanted that I'd stay rec. It should be the players and parents responsibility to work with the coach synergistically for the players development...all parties involved must share the load. This is a requirement I discuss at length with my players and parents. And I'm quick to remind them that it's also stated in the contract they signed when they seem to lose focus.

It sounds like many of you make this point about how certain coaches shouldn't be club/select. Sounds like what a lot of players and parents are getting around here is more expensive rec league vs quality growth and development.

So, someone help me win the lottery and then let's put together a league that could be worth a damn!   

1FCASpirit: I understand that you are having a hard time with the fact of club soccer in NTX but it is what I stated. Two practices a week and 1 game on weekends. As a matter of fact it is a bit better than the usual rec of 1 practice a week and 1 game on weekend for a hefty $$$. Then some parents wonder why the teams from California perform better than we do in tournaments. Perhaps it has to do with those 2 extra practices per week?
I do not mean facilitator in a bad way. A facilitator is one who through his experience and teaching makes it easier for you to better understand (and play) the game. The catalyst that accelerates the development of the player.

And BTW I have asked coaches at to why they have only 2 practices per week. The answer? "Well they kids and parents will not show up if I have more practices" or "I do not want to overwork the players" Never mind the fact that the coaches have 2 or 3 teams and see the extra $$$ coming!

I have definitely seen that happen here...one coach with way to many teams! That's why I have a team now...the parents and players got frustrated at the unfortunate lack of attention...they got together with my son and approached me to put a new team together...unfortunately we're still looking for players to have enough for a team...it's been rough trying to get help around here to do so. I had to hold tryouts as a way to advertise! It was ridiculous what the home association wouldn't do. Oh well, I just hope I can pull off having enough for a team!

Marvelousmar wrote:And there in lies the problem the key word  Fund raisers and sponsors.

5 pounds a week works out to be 360 per kid.  vs about $1,000 per kid here for juniors(under 12 equivalent to juniors here) Sponsors covered the clothing.  If they were around that would help. (Fundraising amounts helped to reduce that difference as well I bet)  So the difference over the pond to here probably isn't as far when you add those items in.

Their is a different football culture there with massive pro clubs that run the pro youth setup primarily because of the potential transfer fees.  They can put $100,000 per year into an age group for one star that pays for the club investment. Yes it's about development over there but the clubs are looking for a financial reward for their development probably a lot more then they are around here. The system here isn't set up that way because the proc clubs are just getting off the ground.  It may revert to that way some time in the future here.  However, were a way away from that day.  

Whilst there is a pro-youth setup in the UK, that only kicks in at U13 level, and for every pro-youth team, there are probably 1000 independent youth teams run by volunteers, many of which foster a lot of the talent that feeds into pro-youth, or indeed the kids just go on to play for their club team at a decent level until they find a real job. So I don't buy that the US could not set something similar up to be honest.

I agree with your point on the finances its not that far off. As far as I am concerned if the team managers and coaches put a small effort into getting each team a couple of sponsors, this could easily be achieved. Most companies have some kind of social responsibility program these days and are actively looking for these types of opportunities to work in the community.

Then the parents also have to take responsibility for setting up fund raisers which people actually enjoy...as opposed to selling raffle tickets and flowers. In the end, a team can sustain itself if everyone associated with the team pulls their weight.

You get out what you put in...

i guess if you live in ntx and have been involved in ntx soccer for some years, you can debate the "state of ntx soccer". what is unrealistic; is to draw any conclusions as to how our problems contrast (if they do) to the "state of american soccer" lol

I met some east coast parents at an event and I am telling you that we are not unique in Texas. One parent said they have games where parents go out on the pitch and try to coach their players. Interestingly enough all parents I spoke to shared the same gripe about high $$ team and club dues in addition to travel costs.

They did say that competition was fierce for good clubs and that they had seen examples of player exclusion for club hopping, even in youth academy. I would be the first to call out a club if it tried that type of behavior in NTX, especially for youth academy.

I did hear that our state is considered one of the best for youth soccer and that Supercopa and Dallas Cup were considered tops by most big clubs.

I also found out that Pennsylvania has a residency program that is well designed and meant to rival IMG and the Arizona residency programs. I am looking forward to seeing what is in store for DTRP now that it has moved to Andromeda and was renamed ARP.