99 11/6-11/7 Predictions & Scores - D1, D2, or D3

middlewing256 wrote:D1 prediction

hands down andro beats DTX!

oops.

dr.evil wrote:
Andro vs. DT - Andro all the way. DT will still be doing the same crap they've been producing, or not producing. They would be lucky to come out with a tie. I think they should start chanting, a tie is better than a loss. Instead of their old chant: a tie is as bad as a loss. Maybe?

Oops again

Gababa...think maybe these kids burn out, and the d2, d3, gasp! even PPL may have the kids learning how to play and develop without all the d1 pressure on them?

While these kids certainly are fantastic players, and I understand why people expect them to be the future of USSoccer...these 32 kids are too small of a pool to be it by themselves.

Those kids in the other divisions and other leagues are growing mentally and physically....quietly working on their skills. It's probably an advantage to them that they aren't expected to win every game, or perform every skill perfectly yet. Who's having more fun and learning?

gababa wrote:

dr.evil wrote:
Andro vs. DT - Andro all the way. DT will still be doing the same crap they've been producing, or not producing. They would be lucky to come out with a tie. I think they should start chanting, a tie is better than a loss. Instead of their old chant: a tie is as bad as a loss. Maybe?

Oops again

We can play oopsies all day but the fact of the matter is, neither team played well. Resorted to kickball due to the 'win at all cost' mentality. The goal was not a great goal, it actually was a result of an andro oopsie, and it happens. Every kid should be allowed to make mistakes. But a goal is a goal. And you're right in north texas, everyone is losing. Don't think it will change anytime soon though, but the idea you mentioned is the right direction. Although, it will turn into the old sdl days where 'we don't keep scores or rankings' but its posted by parents themselves! Keep us in the loop on that new system you're referring to. I'm curious to see if bigclubs will consider it.

whyme wrote:Gababa...think maybe these kids burn out, and the d2, d3, gasp! even PPL may have the kids learning how to play and develop without all the d1 pressure on them?

While these kids certainly are fantastic players, and I understand why people expect them to be the future of USSoccer...these 32 kids are too small of a pool to be it by themselves.

Those kids in the other divisions and other leagues are growing mentally and physically....quietly working on their skills. It's probably an advantage to them that they aren't expected to win every game, or perform every skill perfectly yet. Who's having more fun and learning?

That's exactly my point and I completely agree with you.
Now it is going to hard to argue that as of the beginning of our 2010/2011 season the kids playing in D1 are better soccer players than the kids playing in PPL. So, everybody (parents coaches and kids) should hope that they also develop the best they can through the year. Now, aside from great practices, the question is : are the saturday games in D1 classic league helping them to develop their game at all ? What good is it for them (and don't get me wrong me, as a dad I love to go to those games)?

Dr.Evil,Gabba- North Texas is losing...So they don't keep score in California, New York, Florida. THEY DON'T PLAY TO WIN??...Those teams from overseas that play in the Dallas Cup must be very confused that we over here in North Texas keep score and play to win when they come play in the Dallas Cup. OH wait, they play to win and keep score too! GET REAL FOR THE 100TH TIME!

You guys must have been very disappointed Nov 2nd

gababa wrote:

Axxman wrote:

txlongball wrote:

NorthKorea wrote:Scores anybody?
How did the Andro DTX game go?

Surprised that no one is discussing this game today. It was a nasty game but I was not impressed by the ML team. I expected a display of coaching and improvement from Andromeda instead of a big team just trying to push around another team. Texans showed discipline, patience and the ability to win a physical game.

I am going to disagree with you on this. I don't think either team played well, and if anything, Andro made a defensive mistake to lose that game, wasn't anything from the Texan side that scored that goal, but they did come out on top and that's the way it goes. But the way both teams played, should have been a tie. To me it seemed both coaches would have been satisfied with a tie, at least thats the way it looked like they played. We for one played a formation both on offense and defense that I personally had not seen all year which made for some confused kids. I think we go with what we played against DTS the previous week and it would have given us a much better chance. But I'm not the one making the big bucks. Both of these coaches have asked for some time to make their systems work, so we'll give them that. Early second half of the season should be telling and I'm sure by then the verdicts may be out.

I think the coaches really battled each other on that game. By the way, don't you think ML asked some of his boys to shadow some of the DT players ? With the somewhat decline of DTsouth, each game between the 2 teams should be more and more interesting (from that perspective).

But anyway, I am with you Axx; if I arrived at the game very happy, hoping to see a great soccer, I ended up being extremely disappointed with the end result. I know my boy did more headers in that game than during his entire life...practices included.
We are back to that discussion of competition over development; both teams, both coaches want/need to win sooo bad that it basically kills the game...

I was thinking about your comment on the decline of the DTS team. What exactly do you mean by that? I heard you were trying to guest with them in Vegas, parents may not be too keen on that with comments like that?

Not if they live in Dallas!!!

Axxman wrote:

gababa wrote:

Axxman wrote:

txlongball wrote:

NorthKorea wrote:Scores anybody?
How did the Andro DTX game go?

Surprised that no one is discussing this game today. It was a nasty game but I was not impressed by the ML team. I expected a display of coaching and improvement from Andromeda instead of a big team just trying to push around another team. Texans showed discipline, patience and the ability to win a physical game.

I am going to disagree with you on this. I don't think either team played well, and if anything, Andro made a defensive mistake to lose that game, wasn't anything from the Texan side that scored that goal, but they did come out on top and that's the way it goes. But the way both teams played, should have been a tie. To me it seemed both coaches would have been satisfied with a tie, at least thats the way it looked like they played. We for one played a formation both on offense and defense that I personally had not seen all year which made for some confused kids. I think we go with what we played against DTS the previous week and it would have given us a much better chance. But I'm not the one making the big bucks. Both of these coaches have asked for some time to make their systems work, so we'll give them that. Early second half of the season should be telling and I'm sure by then the verdicts may be out.

I think the coaches really battled each other on that game. By the way, don't you think ML asked some of his boys to shadow some of the DT players ? With the somewhat decline of DTsouth, each game between the 2 teams should be more and more interesting (from that perspective).

But anyway, I am with you Axx; if I arrived at the game very happy, hoping to see a great soccer, I ended up being extremely disappointed with the end result. I know my boy did more headers in that game than during his entire life...practices included.
We are back to that discussion of competition over development; both teams, both coaches want/need to win sooo bad that it basically kills the game...

I was thinking about your comment on the decline of the DTS team. What exactly do you mean by that? I heard you were trying to guest with them in Vegas, parents may not be too keen on that with comments like that?

"Somewhat decline" Axx, just somewhat...Any team loosing 4 kids in half of the season has a problem. 4 kids That's 25% of the roster. That can only be a problem; coach has to start over with some new kids, patch some holes and think about line up and bench rotation again. It is for sure a bother.

Club 31- like Gababa suggested we do, the teams who come from overseas do play in tournement where scores are kept, but in their regular league games, by which they prepare for those tourneys, no score is kept to keep teams from playing for ties which is very boring and unproductive soccer. No score until age 13, so most of the Dallas Cup teams have indeed begun score keeping but were not doing so in their formative soccer years- that's why they are such dynamic creative players.

mammabear-gabba- let me (splain) in simple easy to understand terms and for all Obama voters. You are clueless... Period! Puberty will come and go and your soccer development will be out the window. The beautiful(GAG ME) U12 SOCCER PLAYER will be watching from the sidelines and that kid that is clueless and clumsy will be dominating in u15. Get a life!

Maybe you should go watch a couple of ppl games

CLUB31 wrote:mammabear-gabba- let me (splain) in simple easy to understand terms and for all Obama voters. You are clueless... Period! Puberty will come and go and your soccer development will be out the window. The beautiful(GAG ME) U12 SOCCER PLAYER will be watching from the sidelines and that kid that is clueless and clumsy will be dominating in u15. Get a life!

Maybe you should go watch a couple of ppl games

Yes, sure, because as everybody knows soccer is a game where size and weight make all the difference in the world. There is actually no reason to practice soccer at young age and there is no reason to work on skills. All those are useless. Just wait until you are 15, then picks the biggest, fastest players and here you go you have your soccer team...Sure...Love your post Club31, thank you for enlightening us about who is clueless.

Gabba- Again as most of the time you didn't hear or read what I said. Never said anything like what you interpreted. There will be lots of changes in the next few years. Kids will leave, improve,slow down, speed up, ect... and they all need to continue to work on skills and improve....However, back to the main point for the 1,000th time all teams all over the world at all ages play to win...

CLUB31 wrote:Gabba- Again as most of the time you didn't hear or read what I said. Never said anything like what you interpreted. There will be lots of changes in the next few years. Kids will leave, improve,slow down, speed up, ect... and they all need to continue to work on skills and improve....However, back to the main point for the 1,000th time all teams all over the world at all ages play to win...

Sorry for I miss read you Club. And I agree with you, some dramatic changes will blow up ours kids through teenage years (physically and also mentally, I am sure some stud will just simply stop caring about the game).
Now to rebound on the competitiveness, for sure the kids play to win; that almost define a good player all he wants is to win, even a 3v9 coed scrimmage against his friends at school. That's good and it is healthy. It is the rest of the competitiveness that follows in our classic league that I have a problem with. The over the top parents, the pressure on the coaches, the overly physical games, the lack of good ref, hearing daddy cursing at a ref because of a bad call... Those few points and others are not healthy and are not allowing the kids to get better as they should. I am advocating for less of those games more practices, more friendlies and just tournaments to get competition.

CLUB31 wrote:Gabba- Again as most of the time you didn't hear or read what I said. Never said anything like what you interpreted. There will be lots of changes in the next few years. Kids will leave, improve,slow down, speed up, ect... and they all need to continue to work on skills and improve....However, back to the main point for the 1,000th time all teams all over the world at all ages play to win...

All competitors play to win and all spectators want their team to win - I think that is universal. What I think Gabba is trying to say is more intended for the clubs, coaches and parents. In the US, if you do not win as a coach you are replaced and that can create coaching behaviors that do not encourage development. The thought is if team is not in a structured/competitive league where wins and losses are recorded, will the coach play to win or to develop - the desire is for him to play the team to develop. The scrimmages (games) will be as competitive or more competitive for the players because they can be structured by skill level versus pure age and gender. Clubs and teams will still do tournaments (local and non-local) and play to win so that the "win at all costs" dimension is also developed within players, its just not the most important dimension. From what I have been told, this is more the model outside the US. The real question is the parents, would they even consider this approach? Its simple supply and demand - if there could be a demand for this approach, I am sure the clubs would supply it.

Gabba - did I explain it correctly?

the youth teams from the top clubs in Brazil and places like Ajax don't just play to win. The kids play to develope because they know it's the only thing that will keep them on the team. Kids are cut from those teams all the time and never because they didn't win enough games and they are never saved from the cut because they did win. In many respects the pressure is even greater but it is at least focused development. BTW read an article in which Ferguson and Wenger empatically stated that they did not care if their youth teams win or lose. That they must produce players for the first team.
In club's point I will say that here we build youth "teams" and teams are built to win. From the ground up the coach is building a foundation to win games. He pics kids based on the position that he see's them in and not based on the individual skills. There is little rotation of position because if you picked up a kids to solidify a defense why would you play him anywhere else. Parents ask for top teams so clubs give it to them. Coaches build reputations on it, clubs make money from it, parents fill egos from it so it won't change.

Eight-Ball wrote:

CLUB31 wrote:Gabba- Again as most of the time you didn't hear or read what I said. Never said anything like what you interpreted. There will be lots of changes in the next few years. Kids will leave, improve,slow down, speed up, ect... and they all need to continue to work on skills and improve....However, back to the main point for the 1,000th time all teams all over the world at all ages play to win...

All competitors play to win and all spectators want their team to win - I think that is universal. What I think Gabba is trying to say is more intended for the clubs, coaches and parents. In the US, if you do not win as a coach you are replaced and that can create coaching behaviors that do not encourage development. The thought is if team is not in a structured/competitive league where wins and losses are recorded, will the coach play to win or to develop - the desire is for him to play the team to develop. The scrimmages (games) will be as competitive or more competitive for the players because they can be structured by skill level versus pure age and gender. Clubs and teams will still do tournaments (local and non-local) and play to win so that the "win at all costs" dimension is also developed within players, its just not the most important dimension. From what I have been told, this is more the model outside the US. The real question is the parents, would they even consider this approach? Its simple supply and demand - if there could be a demand for this approach, I am sure the clubs would supply it.

Gabba - did I explain it correctly?

If clubs held coaches accountable for the number and quality of players sent to the next level then coaches might change their focus. For example if FCD started judging it's coaches on their ability to develop players for the juniors program or say have moved up to premier teams and punish those that show no production of talent you would see a change. If a coaches job depends on his ability to develop then you would also see his focus change. Right now he is rewarded for winning. Also if parents started to look at coaches and see what kind of player does this coach develop. Take "the special one" and Pam Andersons boyfriend. They both have a collection of players in the FCD juniors program. Darth Diego has a nice group of kids either in or going in. Quite a few of the top players are former Snellians.

Gabba- I agree. That fact of the matter it is very difficult to balance all those factors. Maybe that is why it is so difficult to find a coach that can handle it. I don't know the answer. One thing I do know is this....my son is probably not going to star at the pro or even college level. He is 11 and enjoys competition and he is MOST HAPPY when he walks off the field and his team has WON the game. I think most kids are the same way.

Of course winning is the point of competition. No need to cloak the issue behind the "development is more important than winning" arguement. Coaches want to win. Parents want to win. Kids want to win. Clubs are built on wins.


Hopefully, along the way, and down this very short path we are on, we are raising soccer fans. Kids that will grow up loving the game and igniting the passion for future generations.


Just try to keep it fun for your player.

go99 wrote:

Eight-Ball wrote:

CLUB31 wrote:Gabba- Again as most of the time you didn't hear or read what I said. Never said anything like what you interpreted. There will be lots of changes in the next few years. Kids will leave, improve,slow down, speed up, ect... and they all need to continue to work on skills and improve....However, back to the main point for the 1,000th time all teams all over the world at all ages play to win...

All competitors play to win and all spectators want their team to win - I think that is universal. What I think Gabba is trying to say is more intended for the clubs, coaches and parents. In the US, if you do not win as a coach you are replaced and that can create coaching behaviors that do not encourage development. The thought is if team is not in a structured/competitive league where wins and losses are recorded, will the coach play to win or to develop - the desire is for him to play the team to develop. The scrimmages (games) will be as competitive or more competitive for the players because they can be structured by skill level versus pure age and gender. Clubs and teams will still do tournaments (local and non-local) and play to win so that the "win at all costs" dimension is also developed within players, its just not the most important dimension. From what I have been told, this is more the model outside the US. The real question is the parents, would they even consider this approach? Its simple supply and demand - if there could be a demand for this approach, I am sure the clubs would supply it.

Gabba - did I explain it correctly?

If clubs held coaches accountable for the number and quality of players sent to the next level then coaches might change their focus. For example if FCD started judging it's coaches on their ability to develop players for the juniors program or say have moved up to premier teams and punish those that show no production of talent you would see a change. If a coaches job depends on his ability to develop then you would also see his focus change. Right now he is rewarded for winning. Also if parents started to look at coaches and see what kind of player does this coach develop. Take "the special one" and Pam Andersons boyfriend. They both have a collection of players in the FCD juniors program. Darth Diego has a nice group of kids either in or going in. Quite a few of the top players are former Snellians.

Go that theory doesn't take into account the movement of players, and parents driving halfway across town to drop a really talented player in a coaches lap. This would take us back to reigonal play . Leave coaches and players in a certain reigon the reigon that cranks out the best players has the best developemental coaches.

Oh I would definitely region lock the players until at least 14

GO99 and Plantit obviously have all the answers. Tell you what, we'll give you two or three coaches, take your pick. You can take your pick on a dozen or so 99 players in addition to the entire Figo and Pino teams and you must take with you Gababa, Club31, Finish1, and Omega. Go play at the park every day and go develop, enter a tournament here and there, form your own league, heck go play in France if you want. Make sure you win a bunch of games so Club's bb can be happy and you can hear Gababa sing Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole on the sidelines. Be sure to win, but don't tell the kids or anyone else the scores, just win. Finish will provide the liquid entertainment and Omega will bring the Latin flavor and their associated top notch coaches. He will teach you all how to Salsa dance. Come back in 7 or 8 years and let us know how all the boys are doing, certainly they'll be on the national team by then. Maybe you can talk And1 into having his bb join you and be your consultant. He'll keep reminding you to let the haters be your motivators.

I would be willing to wager that if you guys went ahead with this experiment, the members of this forum and parents of the 97, 98, and 99 bbs would sponsor it all, as long as there was a guarantee that they would never post again.

It would all be in the name of USA Soccer Development, the future.

Merry Christmas

I like your posts, finkster, very entertaining...BTW-throwing darts is easy. Can you express an opinion on the state of youth soccer development in the US or NTX? America has yet to prove itself on the world's stage. Any thought or recommendations on the topic?

you could just ignore the conversation. I find it interesting that you join in others conversations just to tell them how stupid the conversation is and not add anything constructive of your own. Do you just walk up to random coversations and tell people how stupid they are for even having their conversation in real life? Add something to the discussion or pass it by. Tell us all how great the system is and how soccer here is doing just fine. Tell us anything besides "you guys are stupid because you are having a conversation that I don't like" or just pass it by and move to the next topic.

There you go, this is Ratfink I bet. Just win baby, no development please.

lmao that video is too funny