ODP vs NDP

What is the difference between the ODP and the US Soccer's NDP?

Old Development Program - New Development Program

frequent flyer wrote:What is the difference between the ODP and the US Soccer's NDP?

Olympic Development Program
National Development Program

besides the spelling...I'm not sure myself

ODP was the primary talent identification program for US Soccer. There are State pools of players that compete to make the State teams (in our case, North Texas). The top team or teams at the State level go the the Regional Camp. There kids compete to make the regional teams (in our case, Region III). From there the players selected for the regional teams go to the National Pool to try and make the National Development Program.

These kids are the the top of the ODP pyramid in the NDP. Some kids can get selected directly to the NDP outside of ODP, but those are very few. I suspect the Development Academy will change all of this over time.

So the NDP is the residency program in Bradenton?

No, just the top players in the National Pool. They get called together to play in various tournaments and train together occasionally.

eredivisie wrote:ODP was the primary talent identification program for US Soccer.

The key word here is was. ODP developed into a political money making organization. Because of this the USSF Federation has decided to make it obsolete. The Development Academy has done so for all but the very youngest players. And that is going out too. I understand that next year the Federation will move down to U13/U14 ending ODP. ODP has become second rate, or at least in Texas. There are still places in the US that don't have Academy teams. In those locations ODP may still survive.

24 of the 32 players chosen for the U17 team last September are or were former ODP players. Academy is great if you live in a metropolitan area but it does not serve an overwhelming majority of the country. I also really do not understand why some think ODP is such a big money maker. $1000 for an international trip. Needs based financial aid. How do they make money on that?

my2cents wrote:24 of the 32 players chosen for the U17 team last September are or were former ODP players. Academy is great if you live in a metropolitan area but it does not serve an overwhelming majority of the country. I also really do not understand why some think ODP is such a big money maker. $1000 for an international trip. Needs based financial aid. How do they make money on that?

Your stats make a good point but will it continue to be that way? For kids that are 9, 10 or 11 now, will ODP be a viable option for them to have a shot at the national teams when they are 17 18 etc? If not, then does it stand to reason that if you live in an area where you have Academy teams, you will have to play for a club that has an Academy program? ODP will not do you much good in that area as the kids getting looks are on the big club teams. I do not really like this trend as I like the small clubs having a chance, but if this is correct, the good players at the small clubs will flock to the larger clubs for a chance on an Academy team.

...and when our MLS franchises start developing players internally, then selling rights for big money, the whole scene changes again...

Running wrote:

my2cents wrote:24 of the 32 players chosen for the U17 team last September are or were former ODP players. Academy is great if you live in a metropolitan area but it does not serve an overwhelming majority of the country. I also really do not understand why some think ODP is such a big money maker. $1000 for an international trip. Needs based financial aid. How do they make money on that?

Your stats make a good point but will it continue to be that way? For kids that are 9, 10 or 11 now, will ODP be a viable option for them to have a shot at the national teams when they are 17 18 etc? If not, then does it stand to reason that if you live in an area where you have Academy teams, you will have to play for a club that has an Academy program? ODP will not do you much good in that area as the kids getting looks are on the big club teams. I do not really like this trend as I like the small clubs having a chance, but if this is correct, the good players at the small clubs will flock to the larger clubs for a chance on an Academy team.

I think it will be an option as the academies will never serve the rural areas. Not a big enough population base to support a large club that is needed to support academy programs. As far as the rest of your points that is already happening. Look at the U9-U10 threads and all the talk of top teams, rankings, etc. Many players do already flock to big clubs. The academies and national teams though will take talent no matter where it comes from. If you are a marginal player trying out for academy the big club will keep the big club player. If your a small club stud trying out then a bench player is getting cut. Unfortunately many think talent can only be developed by big clubs.

my2cents wrote:24 of the 32 players chosen for the U17 team last September are or were former ODP players. Academy is great if you live in a metropolitan area but it does not serve an overwhelming majority of the country. I also really do not understand why some think ODP is such a big money maker. $1000 for an international trip. Needs based financial aid. How do they make money on that?

Those stats don't really tell you anything at all. So if a kid played ODP one year and then entered into the Academy and was recruited from his academy team he would be in your stats. 90% of the kids on Academy are former ODP players. They all played ODP when they were U12 or U13. But since U15 they have been playing Academy.

soccergrinder wrote:

my2cents wrote:24 of the 32 players chosen for the U17 team last September are or were former ODP players. Academy is great if you live in a metropolitan area but it does not serve an overwhelming majority of the country. I also really do not understand why some think ODP is such a big money maker. $1000 for an international trip. Needs based financial aid. How do they make money on that?

Those stats don't really tell you anything at all. So if a kid played ODP one year and then entered into the Academy and was recruited from his academy team he would be in your stats. 90% of the kids on Academy are former ODP players. They all played ODP when they were U12 or U13. But since U15 they have been playing Academy.

Really? Those stats tell me that kids who start in ODP and move on to academy, or stay in ODP make up 75% of the players in the pool as opposed to those who chose to never join the program comprise only 25%. It tells me that whether you stay in or move on to academy the ODP program is a proven stepping stone to the top level.

my2cents wrote:

soccergrinder wrote:

my2cents wrote:24 of the 32 players chosen for the U17 team last September are or were former ODP players. Academy is great if you live in a metropolitan area but it does not serve an overwhelming majority of the country. I also really do not understand why some think ODP is such a big money maker. $1000 for an international trip. Needs based financial aid. How do they make money on that?

Those stats don't really tell you anything at all. So if a kid played ODP one year and then entered into the Academy and was recruited from his academy team he would be in your stats. 90% of the kids on Academy are former ODP players. They all played ODP when they were U12 or U13. But since U15 they have been playing Academy.

Really? Those stats tell me that kids who start in ODP and move on to academy, or stay in ODP make up 75% of the players in the pool as opposed to those who chose to never join the program comprise only 25%. It tells me that whether you stay in or move on to academy the ODP program is a proven stepping stone to the top level.

If kids want to play ODP for U11 and U12 then by all meas do it. More touches the better. After that ODP serves little purpose in North Texas except for that really small percent that can't play Academy because of location or who choose not to play Academy. Once a player gets to the age to play Academy none of them will play ODP. I wonder what percentage of Academy players still play in ODP. 0%. ODP doesn't produce Academy players. Academy players might choose to play ODP until they reach Academy age. But what produces the Academy players is the select teams they play on. Texans, Solar, Andromeda, FC Dallas, AYSES, and others. They are producing the Academy players. Not ODP. Of the dozens of college coaches I have talked to NONE of them recruit through ODP. USSF hates ODP and will do everything they can to stamp it out. They have already done it for U15 and up. U13 and U14 are coming. Pre-Academy was the first more towards that. The quality of ODP teams in the older age groups, U15 and up, is abysmal compared to when the kids that are U18 now played ODP. And it will NOT get any better. Now, maybe there is a possibility with the new Academy rule baring kids from playing high school ball. Maybe those kids might want to play ODP. By the way, can you point me to where you got your stats about ODP National Team players coming from ODP. I'll let you have the last word.

Here are a few articles on U14, U15 and U17 ODP players showing the majority of the players invited to national team camps are or were ODP players. I really do not understand is if college coaches don't scout ODP why were there 30 to 60 major colleges watching every 94 and 95 interegional game ? Why is the question of ODP state or regional on every major college recruiting questionaire?http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=6367





http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=6259


http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=6001


http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=5993

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=5939

Those are great PR articles by ODP for ODP. I love this statement.

"US Youth Soccer ODP is the premier identification and development program in the country, and prepares players for selection to the U.S. National Team programs by bringing together the best players from their club teams to compete in state, regional, national and international competitions, mimicking the U.S. National Team system."

I bet the Federation thinks the Academy system is the "premier identification and development program in the country".

By the way "30 to 60" colleges. That made my point. At one (1) Academy game we had 125 colleges in attendance. By the end of the Showcase (3 games) we had 200 coaches at our games. And not every coach attending the Showcase came to our games. Probably must of been 300 coaches there.

By the way the article says 11 of the 32 were in ODP last year. So I assume the other 21 came from Academy. That would be 34% from ODP and 66% from Academy.

"Of the 32 players named, 24 are current or former members of US Youth Soccer ODP. Eleven players headed to Bradenton participated in last year's US Youth Soccer ODP Interregionals, "

Prior to USSF Development Academy 100% of the players came from ODP. In 4 years ODP participation has dropped to 34%.

soccergrinder wrote:Those are great PR articles by ODP for ODP. I love this statement.

"US Youth Soccer ODP is the premier identification and development program in the country, and prepares players for selection to the U.S. National Team programs by bringing together the best players from their club teams to compete in state, regional, national and international competitions, mimicking the U.S. National Team system."

I bet the Federation thinks the Academy system is the "premier identification and development program in the country".

By the way "30 to 60" colleges. That made my point. At one (1) Academy game we had 125 colleges in attendance. By the end of the Showcase (3 games) we had 200 coaches at our games. And not every coach attending the Showcase came to our games. Probably must of been 300 coaches there.

By the way the article says 11 of the 32 were in ODP last year. So I assume the other 21 came from Academy. That would be 34% from ODP and 66% from Academy.

"Of the 32 players named, 24 are current or former members of US Youth Soccer ODP. Eleven players headed to Bradenton participated in last year's US Youth Soccer ODP Interregionals, "

Prior to USSF Development Academy 100% of the players came from ODP. In 4 years ODP participation has dropped to 34%.

Ok. I get it now. You have dove in on the academy and that is fine. Not going to run down that program but it has many critics as well. Does not explain your obvious disdain for the ODP program. As the article said 11 were chosen from the interegional. That is 11 out the 72 players there. Academy got 24 out of how many hundreds? Or is it thousands because there are 104 per age group in DFW alone. BTW That number of coaches at academy grows every time parents get on here. Last I heard it was 70 or 80 coaches and parents could not find room to sit on the sidelines.

How do I identify the coaches? Because I watched an academy game recently and didn't see anyone with a clipboard or a whistle or anything????

The NDP is strictly for u14 (birth year) players. ODP is still a primary id vehicle for U13 and U14 aged players.

However, if you look at U15-U18 national teams, the overwhelming majority of players are coming out of DA programs.

ODP might still be relevant for players living too far from DA clubs. At the younger age groups you may see as many as 350-400 players at the Region 2 ODP trials.

Kind of hard to select the "best" players out of 350+. Usually it comes down to the biggest and fastest. ("Chronic dribblers" with poor tactical accumen and big, strong defenders usually make the cut.) It also helps a player that hails from a big club from a big state. Not saying they don't get the top 10 players, but after that, there isn't a lot of difference in players' abilities.

So, making a regional pool/team at u15+ doesn't carry the same pedigree it once did.

There are also "National Training Centers" set up by USSF in key (large) soccer markets. They are by invitation only though.

"Showcase" tournaments tend to be scouted only by smaller college coaches. Mainly 2nd tier D2, D3, NAIA and junior college coaches.

So, a player that wants to play for a major college program should find a way to get into a DA program.

Players from rural areas/smaller markets have to be more "creative" in their efforts.

ODP in North Texas is all but over with. There are 78 USSF Academy teams through out the US were the talent will come from in the future. USSF now starts with the U12 pre-academy which was just approved at the end of March.

I think it's wrong to assume that all the talent is funneled into one program. The DA clubs in North Texas probably do get most of the talent. But certainly not all of it.

There are 30 states that don't even have DA clubs. There are plenty of elite players flying under the radar playing for smaller, lesser known clubs.

These players in many cases are playing up multiple age groups. Playing on mens teams, etc.

What the USSF should be doing is setting up elite player programs where they bring the top players into a residency environment. (At the appropriate age.) Similar to what has been done with Clairefontaine and the other regional training centers.

But that would make too much sense.

Instead, we have the inefficient, expensive system in place now.

Don't get me wrong. If a player lives close enough (to a DA club) and can afford the logistics involved, then go for it.

Laimport wrote:I think it's wrong to assume that all the talent is funneled into one program. The DA clubs in North Texas probably do get most of the talent. But certainly not all of it.

There are 30 states that don't even have DA clubs. There are plenty of elite players flying under the radar playing for smaller, lesser known clubs.

These players in many cases are playing up multiple age groups. Playing on mens teams, etc.

What the USSF should be doing is setting up elite player programs where they bring the top players into a residency environment. (At the appropriate age.) Similar to what has been done with Clairefontaine and the other regional training centers.But that would make too much sense.

Instead, we have the inefficient, expensive system in place now.

Don't get me wrong. If a player lives close enough (to a DA club) and can afford the logistics involved, then go for it.

They do. Players that are identified go into residency in Florida from age U-14 to U16. I will agree that there are some very talented players on clubs that are not affiliated with the USSF. Most of your States or regions of the states that are affiliated with USSF DA have historically been known for their soccer culture. States such as ie. North/South Dakota and Montana are not exactley soccer hot beds. Thats not to say that their maybe a hidden soccer talent there but the percentages a very small.

When I mentioned IMG, I wasn't talking about the U17 program.

True, not a lot of high end soccer in the Dakotas or Montana. But those are sparsely populated states anyway.

Florida, for example, has what, 4 DA clubs in the entire state? What about Wisconsin? One in South Carolina.

None in Arkansas, Oklahoma, La, Mississippi, Nevada, West Virginia, Maine, Vermont, Kentucky, Nebraska, Hawaii, Alaska, Tennessee, New Mexico, Idaho, Rhode Island, Delaware, New Hampshire...

There's a lot of soccer, quality soccer, being played in areas hundreds of miles away from the nearest DA club.

The DA clubs are (obviously) concentrated in the largest metro areas. That's certainly a starting point. But that still means that hundreds of players are probably falling through the cracks.

If you took say, the top players from Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi and formed a team with said players, they would be highly competitive with most DA/PA teams in Texas. Even with a much smaller soccer population (combined) than North Texas. Throw in the best Oklahoma players and it wouldn't even be close.