Bachman Lake Cheated-illegal players

This deserves it's Own thread.

See here for background: http://www.txsoccer.info/t5026-nothing

They cheated and get caught for using ing illegal players.

Plano Board refuses to kick them out.

Even after they already kicked out another team for the SAME thing.

They still get a shot at the CL.

Is anyone else disturbed by this?

Sounds like the teacher that promotes a failing student. They don't want them back, so they pass the problem on to someone else.

finish1 wrote:Sounds like the teacher that promotes a failing student. They don't want them back, so they pass the problem on to someone else.

Going to CL is by invitation only. Has CL said anything?

FlatBack4 wrote:

finish1 wrote:Sounds like the teacher that promotes a failing student. They don't want them back, so they pass the problem on to someone else.

Going to CL is by invitation only. Has CL said anything?

From what I have seen / heard over the years, PPL (the Plano Premiership as we like to call them) has done little to control cheating / illegal players and seems to look the other way and just shake their heads when allegations are made.

Classic League was pretty good at enforcing a few years ago. I know of at least one case of a 96 team being kicked out of Classic League for using too-old players (they were in D2 at the time), but this was probably 5 years ago. I am sure there have been others but they are generally pretty discrete about these things. I have noticed in younger age groups (U11 / U12) what seems to be an infusion of kids on certain teams who almost have to be too old. I know some kids are just early bloomers but you can't tell me all of these are legit. I think with technology today it is very easy to falsify a birth certificate so these cases are just difficult to prove.

off_the_woodwork wrote:

FlatBack4 wrote:

finish1 wrote:Sounds like the teacher that promotes a failing student. They don't want them back, so they pass the problem on to someone else.

Going to CL is by invitation only. Has CL said anything?

From what I have seen / heard over the years, PPL (the Plano Premiership as we like to call them) has done little to control cheating / illegal players and seems to look the other way and just shake their heads when allegations are made.

Classic League was pretty good at enforcing a few years ago. I know of at least one case of a 96 team being kicked out of Classic League for using too-old players (they were in D2 at the time), but this was probably 5 years ago. I am sure there have been others but they are generally pretty discrete about these things. I have noticed in younger age groups (U11 / U12) what seems to be an infusion of kids on certain teams who almost have to be too old. I know some kids are just early bloomers but you can't tell me all of these are legit. I think with technology today it is very easy to falsify a birth certificate so these cases are just difficult to prove.

You just hit the nail on the head.

The cheaters talk to one another and share info and experience on how to beat the system regarding the paperwork.

Classic League, or any other league, "enforcing the Rules of age" is no more than lip service to try to keep the issue at bay. As long as the checks clear it is not enforced. It will never be enforced. And when they do make a half assed attempt to check rosters to appease the rumblings, they simply look at the faked paperwork and say, 'they're legit." And that's the end of it. The problem will only get worse in our money trumps all, winning is everything system.

Those who post here regularly, from every age group, could rattle off all the teams in Classic and beyond that are cheating. it would make no difference.

It is so easy to spot, particularly at the younger ages.

Many have claimed to address this issue with classic. Those who have tried to breach ANY subject with the classic powers that be, including myself, already know what a vacuous, pompous group of squat that turns out to be.

If there are no teeth to the laws, there are no laws. So the cheating will continue.

Eventually a group with more integrity will step up and CL can go fish. Maybe not tomorrow, but eventually. Rational people can only put up with so much of this crap before they take there kids, teams, money elsewhere.

Facts seem to be pretty fuzzy, so I'll leave it to the leagues to make the call. If Bachman Lake broke the rules they should be held accountable.

I will say this though ... I have respect for their team. They are solid all around. It's not just one or two players. They were probably the best all around team we played in PPL. If they get into the challenge tournament I would expect them to be in Classic next year and to be a competitive team.

Wow...

I gather the one illegal player was not over-aged, but signed with another team...And they missed a single game in qualifying a year ago. That is hardly cheating...And the punishment should be not to let a good team in a more competitive league, so they can beat up on another feeder league again next year? Who loses there? Instead of being vindictive to a bunch of 10/11 year olds, how about CL just invites the next team to the challenge as well. Then it is definately victim-less "crime"....BTW, if you really think this a is that big of deal, you might want to take a good look at yourself, and take a kids soccer equivalent to a chill pill.

I just read the thread that started this one. If you don't believe me when I say the board members of, apparently all local competitive associations, sit on their hands and don't do ANYTHING about the problem of using illegal players, read that thread. Just proves my point.

And we wonder what's wrong with kids today. It's because this kind of crap is their lesson on values.

jack0fspeed wrote:Facts seem to be pretty fuzzy, so I'll leave it to the leagues to make the call. If Bachman Lake broke the rules they should be held accountable.

I will say this though ... I have respect for their team. They are solid all around. It's not just one or two players. They were probably the best all around team we played in PPL. If they get into the challenge tournament I would expect them to be in Classic next year and to be a competitive team.

What "facts" is it that you think are fuzzy?

The fact that they admit to having an illegal player on their team? Not fuzzy.

The fact that they had an illegal player on their roster for a month? Not fuzzy.

The fact that they had an illegal player on four of their game day rosters? Not fuzzy.

The fact that they were 7 points ahead of 3rd place in the table and only admitted to cheating a little in two games so they only lost 6 points dropping them to 3rd instead of 4th? Not fuzzy.

You clearly don't know jack about what you are talking about.

And, you have respect for a team that CHEATS? Give me a f(#&*$#(*& break. Why? Nevermind. I don't even want to hear whatever crap excuse you have for your respect.

And, just so you know, THEY BROKE THE RULES and they ARE NOT being held accountable. Leave it to the leagues . . . Yeah, lot of good that does.

love_your_refs wrote:Wow...

I gather the one illegal player was not over-aged, but signed with another team...And they missed a single game in qualifying a year ago. That is hardly cheating...And the punishment should be not to let a good team in a more competitive league, so they can beat up on another feeder league again next year? Who loses there? Instead of being vindictive to a bunch of 10/11 year olds, how about CL just invites the next team to the challenge as well. Then it is definately victim-less "crime"....BTW, if you really think this a is that big of deal, you might want to take a good look at yourself, and take a kids soccer equivalent to a chill pill.

I see the cheaters apologists have woken up. It was cheating. Knowingly violating the rules for advantage is cheating. Not so hard to understand. Vindictive? Nope. The real villains are the adults who willfully put their 11 year olds in that position. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, blame the perpetrator -Bachman lake, the cheaters.

love_your_refs wrote:Wow...

I gather the one illegal player was not over-aged, but signed with another team...And they missed a single game in qualifying a year ago. That is hardly cheating...And the punishment should be not to let a good team in a more competitive league, so they can beat up on another feeder league again next year? Who loses there? Instead of being vindictive to a bunch of 10/11 year olds, how about CL just invites the next team to the challenge as well. Then it is definately victim-less "crime"....BTW, if you really think this a is that big of deal, you might want to take a good look at yourself, and take a kids soccer equivalent to a chill pill.

What is wrong with you people? I guess you are the same people that have no problem with steroid and HGH users or coaches spying on other teams in professional sports.

Take a chill pill? No. Not going to happen. I wish I had the power to do something about it. Unfortunately I am not on any of these teams and not a board member in any of these leagues. I just hate to see this kind of stuff in youth sports.

A victimless crime? How about the team that finished in 4th place that doesn't get invited to the CL challenge tournament. Don't think that they feel like victims? Don't think those 11 year old boys who worked hard all year to just get their chance don't feel like they have been cheated? I don't know for sure but I bet they do.

You and jack need to go have a beer together apparently. Maybe go to cheaters anonymous.

love_your_refs wrote:Wow...

I gather the one illegal player was not over-aged, but signed with another team...And they missed a single game in qualifying a year ago. That is hardly cheating...And the punishment should be not to let a good team in a more competitive league, so they can beat up on another feeder league again next year? Who loses there? Instead of being vindictive to a bunch of 10/11 year olds, how about CL just invites the next team to the challenge as well. Then it is definately victim-less "crime"....BTW, if you really think this a is that big of deal, you might want to take a good look at yourself, and take a kids soccer equivalent to a chill pill.

I take it from your screen name your a ref?

I know nothing about this case, but it sure is interesting to read how everybody has ALL of the facts. It must have been a pretty large hearing room if all of you were there. Trying to decipher the facts through the emotional diatribe is difficult, but it appears that everybody agrees that there was an ineligible player who played in 2 games, which they forfeited. It appears that the real issue was whether the coach knew he was ineligible. NTX apparently thought the answer was no...so, how come everybody on this thread thinks otherwise? (serious question)
It hasn't been brought up at any of the CL board meeting up to now.

soccerisgood123 wrote:

love_your_refs wrote:Wow...

I gather the one illegal player was not over-aged, but signed with another team...And they missed a single game in qualifying a year ago. That is hardly cheating...And the punishment should be not to let a good team in a more competitive league, so they can beat up on another feeder league again next year? Who loses there? Instead of being vindictive to a bunch of 10/11 year olds, how about CL just invites the next team to the challenge as well. Then it is definately victim-less "crime"....BTW, if you really think this a is that big of deal, you might want to take a good look at yourself, and take a kids soccer equivalent to a chill pill.

I see the cheaters apologists have woken up. It was cheating. Knowingly violating the rules for advantage is cheating. Not so hard to understand. Vindictive? Nope. The real villains are the adults who willfully put their 11 year olds in that position. Don't blame the police for enforcing the law, blame the perpetrator -Bachman lake, the cheaters.

They most certainly have. I am making a list of them so that I can watch out for them.

1. love_your_refs
2. jackOfspeed

. . . to be continued.

And nobody said missing a game was cheating. Nobody cares about that. They missed a game and had to forfeit. They suffered the consequences for that already by not qualifying last year. But I take your (love's) comment to mean that it is only "cheating" if the kid is older than the age group he is playing in. Really?

Ok, so I am a Arlington team and I am in 4th place with one game to play and I am 2 points out of 3rd place. All other teams have finished their season. I really need a win to get into the challenge tournament and I will make it if I just can win this one game. One of the players on my team has a best friend that plays for a CL D1 team that is in 4th place. He is a great striker and would make my team a lot better. So, for just this one game, I add the CL D1 player to my roster. Or, maybe I don't even add him to my roster, I just take the kit for a kid that broke his leg in March and give it to the CL D1 player. We win the game. I get to the challenge tournament. The CL D1 player was the same age as my players and the players on the other team. Not really cheating, no big deal.

That is your logic? You are a moron.

happyfeet wrote:I know nothing about this case, but it sure is interesting to read how everybody has ALL of the facts. It must have been a pretty large hearing room if all of you were there. Trying to decipher the facts through the emotional diatribe is difficult, but it appears that everybody agrees that there was an ineligible player who played in 2 games, which they forfeited. It appears that the real issue was whether the coach knew he was ineligible. NTX apparently thought the answer was no...so, how come everybody on this thread thinks otherwise? (serious question)
It hasn't been brought up at any of the CL board meeting up to now.

Because we think the board is full of gutless cowards who allowed cheaters a pass. They admit to 2 games, still get to advance, the board says it has had a hearing but takes no responsibility to hand out meaningful punishment. Everyone is happy with this farce and the only ones who really lose are those 11 year old who are manipulated by cynical adults and are naive enough to believe in their parents who tell them that cheating is wrong....

happyfeet wrote:I know nothing about this case, but it sure is interesting to read how everybody has ALL of the facts. It must have been a pretty large hearing room if all of you were there. Trying to decipher the facts through the emotional diatribe is difficult, but it appears that everybody agrees that there was an ineligible player who played in 2 games, which they forfeited. It appears that the real issue was whether the coach knew he was ineligible. NTX apparently thought the answer was no...so, how come everybody on this thread thinks otherwise? (serious question)
It hasn't been brought up at any of the CL board meeting up to now.

They admitted to playing the illegal player in two games. FACT!!

The illegal player is on the roster for FOUR games. FACT!!

Neither of those FACTS constitutes an "emotional diatribe" (which, btw isn't even the correct word to use here bc no one is being abusive or ironic).

And who cares whether the coach knew about it or not. If you cheated you should be disqualified. Someone knew that he played for another team--the player, his parents or someone.

You are a CL Board member, do you and your Board intend to enforce the rules, laws and regulations that you have drafted and adopted for the CL when they are violated? Or do you intend to simply look the other way, maybe let North Texas handle it, or pass the buck of to the Plano league or the Arlington League if you can?

1. love_your_refs
2. jackOfspeed
3. happyfeet

Question? Has anyone wondered why Plano did not apply their rule to this situation? In the Plano rule book, if you use an ineligible player, you are kicked out of the league.

10soccer01 wrote:

happyfeet wrote:I know nothing about this case, but it sure is interesting to read how everybody has ALL of the facts. It must have been a pretty large hearing room if all of you were there. Trying to decipher the facts through the emotional diatribe is difficult, but it appears that everybody agrees that there was an ineligible player who played in 2 games, which they forfeited. It appears that the real issue was whether the coach knew he was ineligible. NTX apparently thought the answer was no...so, how come everybody on this thread thinks otherwise? (serious question)
It hasn't been brought up at any of the CL board meeting up to now.

They admitted to playing the illegal player in two games. FACT!!

The illegal player is on the roster for FOUR games. FACT!!

Neither of those FACTS constitutes an "emotional diatribe" (which, btw isn't even the correct word to use here bc no one is being abusive or ironic).Diatribe is absolutely the correct word, as you sure sound very bitter (look up the definition).

And who cares whether the coach knew about it or not. If you cheated you should be disqualified. Someone knew that he played for another team--the player, his parents or someone. Intent is always considered when handing out sanctions...as it should be.

You are a CL Board member, do you and your Board intend to enforce the rules, laws and regulations that you have drafted and adopted for the CL when they are violated? Or do you intend to simply look the other way, maybe let North Texas handle it, or pass the buck of to the Plano league or the Arlington League if you can? If it is brought before the board, we will look into it.

10soccer01 wrote:1. love_your_refs
2. jackOfspeed
3. happyfeet

For once, I make a list of rationale people.

If it is brought before the board, we will look into it.


Well that's mighty white of you. intent? LMFAO. they put him on the roster and played him. the intent was to win.

soccerisgood123 wrote:If it is brought before the board, we will look into it.


Well that's mighty white of you. intent? LMFAO. they put him on the roster and played him. the intent was to win.

"mighty white of me"?

10soccer01 wrote:What "facts" is it that you think are fuzzy?

The fact that they admit to having an illegal player on their team? Not fuzzy.

The fact that they had an illegal player on their roster for a month? Not fuzzy.

The fact that they had an illegal player on four of their game day rosters? Not fuzzy.

The fact that they were 7 points ahead of 3rd place in the table and only admitted to cheating a little in two games so they only lost 6 points dropping them to 3rd instead of 4th? Not fuzzy.

You clearly don't know jack about what you are talking about.

And, you have respect for a team that CHEATS? Give me a f(#&*$#(*& break. Why? Nevermind. I don't even want to hear whatever crap excuse you have for your respect.

And, just so you know, THEY BROKE THE RULES and they ARE NOT being held accountable. Leave it to the leagues . . . Yeah, lot of good that does.

I'm not going to take rumors on the board as gospel. Sorry. I said if they broke the rules they should be held accountable.

Apparently there was a hearing on the matter. There may be an appeal. The CL and PPL league officials are the referees and they make the call. I understand some people will be unhappy if the ruling goes Bachman's way.

I'm in no way apologizing for them. I'm merely saying that if the league rules in their favor, I would expect them to make CL and be competitive there.

happyfeet wrote:

10soccer01 wrote:

happyfeet wrote:I know nothing about this case, but it sure is interesting to read how everybody has ALL of the facts. It must have been a pretty large hearing room if all of you were there. Trying to decipher the facts through the emotional diatribe is difficult, but it appears that everybody agrees that there was an ineligible player who played in 2 games, which they forfeited. It appears that the real issue was whether the coach knew he was ineligible. NTX apparently thought the answer was no...so, how come everybody on this thread thinks otherwise? (serious question)
It hasn't been brought up at any of the CL board meeting up to now.

They admitted to playing the illegal player in two games. FACT!!

The illegal player is on the roster for FOUR games. FACT!!

Neither of those FACTS constitutes an "emotional diatribe" (which, btw isn't even the correct word to use here bc no one is being abusive or ironic).Diatribe is absolutely the correct word, as you sure sound very bitter (look up the definition).

And who cares whether the coach knew about it or not. If you cheated you should be disqualified. Someone knew that he played for another team--the player, his parents or someone. Intent is always considered when handing out sanctions...as it should be.

You are a CL Board member, do you and your Board intend to enforce the rules, laws and regulations that you have drafted and adopted for the CL when they are violated? Or do you intend to simply look the other way, maybe let North Texas handle it, or pass the buck of to the Plano league or the Arlington League if you can? If it is brought before the board, we will look into it.

I don't need to look up the definition. I am familiar with the English language and understand how to use it. I passed my vocabulary tests in the 6th grade. I am not bitter. Bitter implies "animosity or resentment". I have neither. Shocked at the apathy (that means lack of interest or concern), yes. Bitter, no. (there is no definition of bitter that includes any derivation of "shocked or awed").

After seeing Spinks' post I looked up the Plano rules. Here it is verbatim

"D. Any team found to have played an illegal player will result in immediate removal of the team from the league and will place the head coach on suspension from all soccer activities for three (3) years. The offending player may be suspended from soccer activities."

Any team "found," not any team that is "found to have intentionally" and not any team that is "found to have knowingly". That isn't what the rule says. It appears that you admit that they have been "found to have played an illegal player". Seems like the punishment is plain and simple--immediate removal from the league. Nothing in the rule about whether you intended to do it or not. But you are the wordsmith so you put some red on here and show me where it says "intent is always considered." And, as 123 said, clearly the intent was to win more games, why else would you add a new player to your team.

Your last comment was not an answer to the question I wrote. I asked if you and your board found someone in your league that was breaking the rules would you enforce the rules that you and your board had adopted for your league? It was a hypothetical question not a question about this particular Bachman Lake case.

happyfeet wrote:

10soccer01 wrote:1. love_your_refs
2. jackOfspeed
3. happyfeet

For once, I make a list of rationale people.

what do you find rational about allowing teams to cheat at youth sports?