Bayern beats Chelsea in youth matters

Bayern beats Chelsea in youth matters
by Mike Woitalla, May 16th, 2012 2:59PM

The teams meet Saturday in the Champions League Final.

Excerpt...
"Outside back Philipp Lahm, the 28-year-old Bayern and Germany captain, joined Bayern at age 11. Forward Thomas Mueller, 22, the Golden Shoe winner at the 2010 World Cup, also arrived at Bayern at age 11.

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/46702/bayern-beats-chelsea-in-youth-matters.html

Interestingly, Lahm is only 5'7"

Wikipedia says...
Philipp Lahm (German pronunciation: [ˈfɪlɪp ˈlaːm]; born 11 November 1983 in Munich, Bavaria) is a German footballer who plays for and captains both Bayern Munich and the Germany national football team.[1]

Lahm is considered one of the best full backs in the world[2], and was included in the World Cup team of the tournament in 2006 and 2010, the UEFA Team of the Tournament in 2008 and in the FIFA Team of the Year 2008. He is well known for his pace, dribbling and precise tackling abilities as well as his small stature. Although Lahm is right-footed, he is able to play on both sides of the pitch. He often cuts from the flank to the inside of the pitch to either shoot or pass.

PG-Boy wrote:Interestingly, Lahm is only 5'7"

Wikipedia says...
Philipp Lahm (German pronunciation: [ˈfɪlɪp ˈlaːm]; born 11 November 1983 in Munich, Bavaria) is a German footballer who plays for and captains both Bayern Munich and the Germany national football team.[1]

Lahm is considered one of the best full backs in the world[2], and was included in the World Cup team of the tournament in 2006 and 2010, the UEFA Team of the Tournament in 2008 and in the FIFA Team of the Year 2008. He is well known for his pace, dribbling and precise tackling abilities as well as his small stature. Although Lahm is right-footed, he is able to play on both sides of the pitch. He often cuts from the flank to the inside of the pitch to either shoot or pass.

Great, thanks for sharing

What is actually interesting is that Bayern is restructuring the academy because they haven't produced enough talent the last few years.

There's no comparison between an English academy and a German one.

This shouldn't surprise many people.

If you take the top 4 or 5 English clubs, you'll find they have signed only a handful of first team players out of their academies.

Most English academy 'grads' end up going to a lower league team, quit or come to the states for a second chance (college soccer)

Why do you think less than a third of the EPL rosters consist of English players?

England essentially has the same problems the US does when it comes to player development. (Probably because so many English coaches/former players have brought their bad habits to the states.)

At the core of it, English academy teams by and large don't train enough.

At most Euro academies, teams train 8-10 hours per week!

At Bayern, they train 8 hrs per week up through the age of 16.

Not to mention the academy 'curriculum' they encounter.

There's no comparison between an English academy and a German one.

This shouldn't surprise many people.

If you take the top 4 or 5 English clubs, you'll find they have signed only a handful of first team players out of their academies.

Most English academy 'grads' end up going to a lower league team, quit or come to the states for a second chance (college soccer)

Why do you think less than a third of the EPL rosters consist of English players?

England essentially has the same problems the US does when it comes to player development. (Probably because so many English coaches/former players have brought their bad habits to the states.)

At the core of it, English academy teams by and large don't train enough.

At most Euro academies, teams train 8-10 hours per week!

At Bayern, they train 8 hrs per week up through the age of 16.

Not to mention the academy 'curriculum' they encounter.

For even more back ground.
In Germany each professional club must have 12 German players in ther squad. 8 of the 12 players must have received soccer training by a German club for at least 3 years and 4 of the 8 must have received their soccer training from the club for at least 3 years as well.

These rules were introduced to insure that the youth development is taken more serious by the clubs and the National team has enough players to choose from.

Based on player quality, that's why I'd rather see Americans going to 'finishing school' with a Bundesliga club.

Laimport wrote:If you take the top 4 or 5 English clubs, you'll find they have signed only a handful of first team players out of their academies.

Most English academy 'grads' end up going to a lower league team, quit or come to the states for a second chance (college soccer)

Why do you think less than a third of the EPL rosters consist of English players?

At the core of it, English academy teams by and large don't train enough.

At most Euro academies, teams train 8-10 hours per week!

You are talking about the most competitive & richest league in the world. Why would the top 4 clubs limit themselves to their small pool of academy players when they can buy in the best from anywhere? Common sense says it is going to be very hard for academy players to crack the first team in these clubs. Especially when you consider how hard it is to spot who will be good at 24 ten years earlier.

I think most English clubs take their academies very seriously. The fans take great pride in home grown talent. Smaller clubs use their academies to make money through developing good players and selling them on.

Not sure what your point is that most academy grads going down or quiting. It is expected that only a small percentage of academy players will make it to the pro ranks. There just aren't that many pro spots to go around. Some players progress up (Bale, Rooney, Oxlade Chamberlain, Bent, Wickham etc.) Others go down. This is to be expected.

Yes the EPL rosters are becoming less English. This is due to several factors. The richest league draws in the best talent globally. European labor laws opened up England to cheaper players from all over the continent. England does not have any restrictions regarding English players in the squad. Are the academies in England do a good enough job of producing players? Probably not, as evidenced by the national team but I don't think they are doing too badly either.

Who says they train less than the rest of europe? That would surprise me. My local club builds their academy around daily training and schooling and has a serious curriculm.

I like the sound of the German rules. The EPL might not like them because they would reduce their ability to assemble teams of global talent but they would be good for player development in England. No wonder Germany always does well in the World Cup, Euros, etc. while England toil away.

davito wrote:
You are talking about the most competitive & richest league in the world. Why would the top 4 clubs limit themselves to their small pool of academy players when they can buy in the best from anywhere?

This might change depending how serious UEFA is about the Financial Fair Play regulations starting in 2013.

Maybe but the financial fair play rules are based revenues and the EPL clubs have some of the highest revenue.

Interestingly since Man City won the EPL, all the talk on the BBC Football site has been about how Man Utd will have to spend big to win it back and Man City will be spending super big to retain the title and win the Champions League. Not once has any of the BBC journalists contemplated that the financial fair play rules ought to curtail big spending this summer.

davito, if it was all about money then the English would develop better players.

How do you explain the success of Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Barcelona, etc.

Most of the players there are home grown.

All I'm saying is that the German clubs do a better job of developing players from their academies.

And no, the English academies do not train as much as many of the other Euro academies.

U15's

Barcelona=8 hrs week
Real Madrid=10 hrs per week
Bayern Munich=8 hrs
Ajax=9 hrs
'typical' French academy (pro club or FFF regional centers) 9 hours

Chelsea= 6 hours

Keep in mind that Chelsea is a London club and have a much larger player pool.

Course it isn't just the hours but the method.

German clubs by and large play a more technical and tactically disciplined version of football.

Traditionally, English clubs place an emphasis on the physical side of the game.

I'm not suggesting that the English academies are bad. Or that they don't take youth development seriously.

But you have to concede that England has been underperforming (based on population and infrastructure)for what, decades now.

That said, I think things are getting better there.

davito wrote:

Laimport wrote:If you take the top 4 or 5 English clubs, you'll find they have signed only a handful of first team players out of their academies.

Most English academy 'grads' end up going to a lower league team, quit or come to the states for a second chance (college soccer)

Why do you think less than a third of the EPL rosters consist of English players?

At the core of it, English academy teams by and large don't train enough.

At most Euro academies, teams train 8-10 hours per week!

You are talking about the most competitive & richest league in the world. Why would the top 4 clubs limit themselves to their small pool of academy players when they can buy in the best from anywhere? Common sense says it is going to be very hard for academy players to crack the first team in these clubs. Especially when you consider how hard it is to spot who will be good at 24 ten years earlier.

I think most English clubs take their academies very seriously. The fans take great pride in home grown talent. Smaller clubs use their academies to make money through developing good players and selling them on.

Not sure what your point is that most academy grads going down or quiting. It is expected that only a small percentage of academy players will make it to the pro ranks. There just aren't that many pro spots to go around. Some players progress up (Bale, Rooney, Oxlade Chamberlain, Bent, Wickham etc.) Others go down. This is to be expected.

Yes the EPL rosters are becoming less English. This is due to several factors. The richest league draws in the best talent globally. European labor laws opened up England to cheaper players from all over the continent. England does not have any restrictions regarding English players in the squad. Are the academies in England do a good enough job of producing players? Probably not, as evidenced by the national team but I don't think they are doing too badly either.

Who says they train less than the rest of europe? That would surprise me. My local club builds their academy around daily training and schooling and has a serious curriculm.

I like the sound of the German rules. The EPL might not like them because they would reduce their ability to assemble teams of global talent but they would be good for player development in England. No wonder Germany always does well in the World Cup, Euros, etc. while England toil away.

Your first paragraph sounds like NTX top 3 solar, Texans and FC Dallas why develop when we can just pay for best players

All the top clubs buy lots of players. Most of the 18 man squad for Bayern vs Real were not home grown, they were bought from other clubs.

I suspect you are right that German clubs do a better job than English clubs developing their players. It seems like they have some good rules in place to help that.

I am very surprised by the 6 hours for Chelsea. It is a pitiful amount of training. Where did you get that? It is very hard to believe it is that low. My 10 year old does almost that much training a week plus he plays at recess and at home!

Although Chelsea has a large potential pool of players (FA rules dictate the kids must live close to the academy so being in London is good) they are not allowed to have a very big academy. The FA only allows a certain number of players to be on the books. When these kids get to 18 it is a lot easier for the coach of Chelsea to splash $50M of Abramovich's cash on a proven 26 year old rather than nurture the academy player into the 1st team. The fans want to see home grown players make it but they want to win now and they want big name signings too.

It certainly feels like England has been underperforming for decades but didn't Soccernomics prove they aren't with their fancy stats...I can't remember exactly...

My point about the money is that all the English media are talking about is how much cash these clubs are going to splash on new players this summer. This does not make sense to me since the financial fair play rules should prevent that. Maybe the media is delusional, maybe the rules will be toothless. Probably a bit of both.

When was the last time England won a major tournament (using only English players)? i.e. World Cup, Euro Cup, etc. Excluding club competitions.

England won the World Cup in 2003.

Oops wrong sport....that was English pointy ball World Cup.... haha....

Last and just about only win of anything was the 1966 World Cup.

I can't remember exactly (its been a while since I read it) but I think the book Soccernomics makes some convoluted statistical explanation that England does not really underperform. Try telling that to the exasperated England fans though....

46 years ago, at home, on a goal that really wasn't a goal. Wasn't it the Germans they played? Since then Germany has played in multiple major championships and made the semi's several times, too.

Perhaps we should import more German coaches and less English coaches. I'm rooting for Bayern Munich tomorrow only because I'll be thinking about how some of their players started as 11 year olds with the club. Kinda cool. It's the same age our '01s are today, 11 years old.

The kids do like the "English" accents, though.

My dd once had a choice between a coach that had an "English" accent and one with an East Texas accent. I like coach (x) because I like his English accent, she stated to me.

davito wrote:All the top clubs buy lots of players. Most of the 18 man squad for Bayern vs Real were not home grown, they were bought from other

6 out of the 18 are former Bayern youth players with 4 starting the game. Tomorrow Alaba will not be part of the 18 therefore they will have 5 on the squad.

I counted 3 of the starting 11, 5 of the 18. Kroos joined Bayern at 16 and was in the first team by 17.

Something to be proud of but to say "most" of the tream are home grown is incorrect.

Schweini, Lahm, Badstuber, Kroos, Contento, Mueller & Alaba but he is Austrian.

Five are a very good number. Alaba does not count he was bought from Austria Vienna not a Bayern academy player.

Prior to 2008 Spain had not won anything since 1964 Euros.

Prior to 1998 World Cup France had only won 1984 Euros.

So I take heart. England are not the only ones to underachieve for decades....

And he was 16 still academy age Tu it doesnt matter really. My prediction for the Euro 2012 Germany will not make into the semis after today.

Bayern was by far the better team today but Chelsea rode their luck and showed incredible spirit yet again.

As far as the Euros are concerned I have learned...never count out the Germans....

Agreed, however Bayern has 6 starters for the national team and after losing the Bundesliga, getting their a$$ kicked in the Cup final and today's loss I just believe that they mentally and physically not strong enough to play a good Euro. Hopefully I am wrong.