Re: The Next IE

by The German 8/15/2012, 11:22 am

Laimport wrote:
I apologize in advance if some of you don't know or don't 'get it'.

Apologies accepted!! Wink

by True10 8/15/2012, 1:31 pm

love_your_refs wrote:I think it is bit premature to put them in the same sentence as IE. IE was winning tournaments this time last year playing a year up. Not to mention all the other domination they were a part of over the years.

ETX will need to have a few skins on the wall, win a couple of big tournaments like Plano Labor Day, or a Dallas Cup qualifer to start that conversation.

However, it is nice to see a good NTX team from out of DFW get some wins to shake things up. I hope they do play in a few more NTX tourneys.

ETX can get their chance at playing the best DFW has to offer. Plano Labor Day, Texans Fall Festival and Bobby Rhine Memorial, if they win the latter 2 Dallas Cup is in their future. Good luck to the players and coach.

by D143 8/15/2012, 7:41 pm

ref00 wrote:@ my2cents...I totally disagree with you comment. As a former DI college recruit and eventual student athlete; I was getting "touted" the summer before my sophmore year in HS. The only reason you're not getting scouted/recruited as a sophmore is because you're not trying to get scouted/recruited or dont know how. I strongly advise any/all players/parents to start ASAP due to the fact that there are few scholarships for men.

There's a reason in MOST showcases the U16 age group is listed to be in the actual showcase format.

I cannot tell you the last time I seen top tier or middle of the road DI coaches @ CL games on consistent basis...

I can recognize them a mile away.

Maybe you should have spent a little more time in class Mr. D1 college athlete.......just sayin'

by Rock 8/16/2012, 5:09 pm

A brand new poster (of course he's been here reading the forum for a long time) chooses to make his first post to compare this ETX team to IE.
Of course he has no association with this team, in fact he's a Classic league ref. And a former D1 soccer player! Not a US national team player or did you forget to mention that?

by Goooaaal 8/16/2012, 11:51 pm

I was getting "touted" the summer before my sophmore year in HS. The only reason you're not getting scouted/recruited as a sophmore is because you're not trying to get scouted/recruited or dont know how. I strongly advise any/all players/parents to start ASAP due to the fact that there are few scholarships for men.

There's a reason in MOST showcases the U16 age group is listed to be in the actual showcase format.

I cannot tell you the last time I seen top tier or middle of the road DI coaches @ CL games on consistent basis...

I can recognize them a mile away.

I would honestly be interested in knowing what your recommendations are for getting scouted your sophomore year. If you have some recommendations for high school players and what they should be doing that would qualify as "trying to get scouted/recruited" that would be very helpful.

Appreciate your comments on ETX but if you have that kind of knowledge to pass on it would be much more helpful/appreciated by many on this board.

Thanks!

by Laimport 8/17/2012, 8:38 am

The volume of bs posts on this forum is amazing.

Someone credible comes on pays a team a compliment. Then people try to undermine the compliment. Especially those with very limited knowledge of the team itself. Especially where style of play is concerned.

The underlying theme seems to be that it is impossible to build a successful team around players not associated with the big 4-6 DFW clubs. Especially with players from ETX (and elsewhere)

Worse, it seems many feel the only "path to the next level" lies solely with playing d1 CL or pa/da.

There are pa/d1 cl level players on this ETP team. But these players have opted not to go that route. Largely due to cost/logistics. Are all these players d1 college prospects? Probably not. At least right now. But neither are a lot of pa/da and d1 cl players.

Why is that so hard for some to understand?

Also, there are some high level, competitive NTX tournaments. But in terms of exposure, they certainly don't have a monopoly on them.

That said, I'm sure that in the future this ETP team will get the opportunity to play the top ranked NTX teams. And, in my opinion, probably compete against them successfully.

by Soccernovice 8/17/2012, 9:59 am

I think you are doing right thing. Teach your players to play great soccer technically. Get them the right visibility with college coaches when they are U-17. That is the age where visibility is important. A college coach needs to see your players in action to make decisions on recruiting ideally a showcase but could be their identification camp. The key will be to have credibility to get invited to national college showcase events. The last team I remember who did this was the Texas Fire 94 from El Paso that got into Disney Showcase and other elite showcases. If you win the state cup, you will get into these showcases. Focus on winning the state cup. That is the real test of teams below the USSF DA level. The only time you get to play USSF DA teams is in the Dallas Cup. Win the qualifiers and you get into that showcase.

I will not matter what league you play in if you win state cup or dallas cup you will get visibility with college coaches for your players at U17 and above and you travel to the right showcase events once invited and perform well (retain your players on your team that you developed).

by Big Swoosh 8/17/2012, 4:49 pm

Laimport wrote:The volume of bs posts on this forum is amazing.

Someone credible comes on pays a team a compliment. Then people try to undermine the compliment. Especially those with very limited knowledge of the team itself. Especially where style of play is concerned.

The underlying theme seems to be that it is impossible to build a successful team around players not associated with the big 4-6 DFW clubs. Especially with players from ETX (and elsewhere)

Worse, it seems many feel the only "path to the next level" lies solely with playing d1 CL or pa/da.

There are pa/d1 cl level players on this ETP team. But these players have opted not to go that route. Largely due to cost/logistics. Are all these players d1 college prospects? Probably not. At least right now. But neither are a lot of pa/da and d1 cl players.

Why is that so hard for some to understand?

Also, there are some high level, competitive NTX tournaments. But in terms of exposure, they certainly don't have a monopoly on them.

That said, I'm sure that in the future this ETP team will get the opportunity to play the top ranked NTX teams. And, in my opinion, probably compete against them successfully.

Lameport,

You’ve had some bold post on this forum lately about ETXP, please see your below post. Now you wonder why people bust on you. Why even ask why?

Dude no one on this forum give a rat’s arse about ETXP or any other team that their BB does not play on. However, I would surmise people feel compelled bust your balls after reading your BS on how beautiful the soccer is that ETX plays against low level teams. Oh Yes, I forgot a earlier post where you stated “ ETP played heads up with Solar Red 97 in Puma Cup”...I think you beat SR 1-0 that makes ETXP a good team. Your team is GrrrrEAT! FYI, FCDP 98 beat Solar Red 97 3 -0 & 2-1 in the Ken Smith Memorial Tournament….. It doesn’t mean FCDP 98 is a good or great team…to me it says the 97 CL group is very weak. Wake up Classic League 97 D1, D2, D3 is a joke the majority of talent is no longer playing in Classic League.

Have ETXP play in a tournament where decent teams will be playing/playing for something (automatic bye to the Dallas Cup). Get ETXP to play in the upcomming Texans Fall festival or FCD Bobby Rhine Tournament and best of luck to your team. If your team wins or plays well the rest will take care of it’s self. I’ve always believed...if you are good there is no need to come on this forum extolling how good you are…your play on the field will do the talking for you.

The Next IE - Page 2 Laimpo18

by Yak Attack 8/18/2012, 5:06 pm

Laimport wrote:You people are hilarious! ...

The reason this team doesn't play in CL is because it is a waste of time and money!
Yak: As for time it is debatable as to why we need 12 games in the fall, so I'd agree that in terms of time dedicated to league games it's certainly worth a review. In terms of $$ it is relatively cheap for us locals to participate in the league, so as for the $$ involved I'm good with having quality refs and fields to play on each weekend for the kids.

The purpose of this team is to SHOWCASE!!
Yak: So what make you think CL kids don't or won't play in showcase tournaments. You do realize these tournaments aren't taking place every weekend, or even every month (at least those worthy of the travel). They typically host these between soccer seasons for a reason. Now again our guys play much league play before they ever get to these tournaments, so again it is worth a look at scaling these games back as kids get to the point where they need to focus more on college and less on the local league play.

Not to collect silverware!
Yak: I wasn't aware CL provide silverware, but they do have an invite one of the best showcases in the country.

In other words, a means to an end...

Dirty play? Can you even distinguish between 'dirty' and aggressive?
YaK: I can attest that in no way would I put ETX as a dirty team. They are physical, but what quality team out there isn't. Our group has met up with ETX the last 2 years in tournament play, and most recently they just out worked us. My only concern was our boys not matching up with them better...

It's a contact sport...
Yak: Yes it is.

by Yak Attack 8/18/2012, 5:11 pm

Big Swoosh wrote: I’ve always believed...if you are good there is no need to come on this forum extolling how good you are…your play on the field will do the talking for you.

And so then what would we all do on this forum. Actually talk soccer, nonsense! Go back to your cave.

by Laimport 8/20/2012, 9:38 am

I could be wrong. But, bigswoosh is of the mindset that, if you aren't pa/da, then you are crap.

Certainly as a team, if not the individual player.

To clarify, I personally did NOT infer that ETP was the "next IE". Someone else made that assessment. Important to point out that it was NOT an ETP parent or coach.

The simple fact of the matter regarding ETP's participation, or lack thereof participation in CL was made beforehand. As a U16 team (especially one not based close enough to the metroplex) it doesn't make sense to 'climb the CL ladder' beginning at d3.

It just doesn't make sense for this team. Mainly due to the cost of travel. (Somewhere in the vicinity of 2 grand a year...just for league play.

Now, had this team entered CL 3 years before, it might make more sense.

Finally, I think it is a dangerous (and stupid) assumption that players 1-50 in NTX are all playing pa/da. Some of those are playing because they feel it's better (and are good) players. But for many, it is because they can afford to pay the dues and travel as well as being logistically expedient.

Bigswoosh, how do you know that there aren't ETP players capable of playing at those "elite levels" you refer to? Answer is, you don't!

Yak, I didn't imply CL players wouldn't attend showcase tournaments. Just that for ETP, CL is not part of the overall strategy. As you pointed out, this team is at an age where they should be focusing less on league play and more on showcasing.

by Big Swoosh 8/20/2012, 1:07 pm

Laimport wrote:I could be wrong. But, bigswoosh is of the mindset that, if you aren't pa/da, then you are crap.

Certainly as a team, if not the individual player.

To clarify, I personally did NOT infer that ETP was the "next IE". Someone else made that assessment. Important to point out that it was NOT an ETP parent or coach.

The simple fact of the matter regarding ETP's participation, or lack thereof participation in CL was made beforehand. As a U16 team (especially one not based close enough to the metroplex) it doesn't make sense to 'climb the CL ladder' beginning at d3.

It just doesn't make sense for this team. Mainly due to the cost of travel. (Somewhere in the vicinity of 2 grand a year...just for league play.

Now, had this team entered CL 3 years before, it might make more sense.

Finally, I think it is a dangerous (and stupid) assumption that players 1-50 in NTX are all playing pa/da. Some of those are playing because they feel it's better (and are good) players. But for many, it is because they can afford to pay the dues and travel as well as being logistically expedient.

Bigswoosh, how do you know that there aren't ETP players capable of playing at those "elite levels" you refer to? Answer is, you don't!

Yak, I didn't imply CL players wouldn't attend showcase tournaments. Just that for ETP, CL is not part of the overall strategy. As you pointed out, this team is at an age where they should be focusing less on league play and more on showcasing.

You know my mind set do you?? UR wrong…I’ll try to enlighten you on my belief. I'm of the mindset that at in the 97' age group between DA & PA (this is if you figure 8 teams 4 PA & 4 DA) you've taken out roughly 144 of the most (again not all of but most) talented soccer individuals for the potential player pool for CL. BTW, my BB is 97 yr birth date and does not play PA & 4 DA. Could he play maybe….but he doesn’t want too. This year he wants to play CL soccer and high school with his buddies.

"Bigswoosh, how do you know that there aren't ETP players capable of playing at those "elite levels" you refer to? Answer is, you don't!"

Laimport....Again, I don’t know if and for the most part don’t care if they can or can’t. But I’m not the person posting how ETXP dominated a bunch of also-ran teams in weak tournaments. Stop running your mouth and have ETXP play in one of the qualifying tournaments for the Dallas Cup. That way you can get a gauge of how good your team truly is. Or like last year ETXP can choose to play the AFC Adidas Fall Challenge in November. Winning the AFC tournament should let you get a good gauge on how good your team is and give you some more fuel to get on this forum to run your mouth again.

Best of luck you and your team.

by Laimport 8/20/2012, 2:06 pm

First you need to check your math.

We all know that 99% of the 'top' u16 DA players are going to be early 96 birth years...which would make them u17 club players. (I'm sure most of the 97 birth years are DP's.)

So, really we're talking about 4 teams agin. The 4 PA teams. So, at best that's 60-72 players.

So, if you don't care, then why are you running your mouth, bigswoosh?

Again, I'm not the one who started the thread. or are you too lazy to check?

The only reason I spoke up in the first place is because a few blowhards get on here and start saying ETP 'plays dirty', lacks skills, etc. ad nauseum.

All I said was that winning Ayses Summer Classic would or should make us a top 10 NTX club team.

Which, according to the 'rankings' (flawed as they may be) it has!

So, get your facts straight, swoosh. I didn't start the thread in the first place. All i said was to not count ETP out of the tournament finals...which they ended up winning.

I never said ETXP was the next "Irving Elite", or could win CL, or anything else.

Guess we'll see how things go in November at the texans tourney. Hell, the kids could win Dallas Cup and bigswoosh would still be talking his elitist smack..

Good luck with your therapy...

by love_your_refs 8/20/2012, 2:32 pm

Laimport,

Please share you showcase experiences as the year goes on...like how many coaches and what level(D1,D2,D3,NAIA) attend your games. I only have limited experience with smaller showcases and it has been disappointing, it would be nice to know some good ones, and your team seems to be doing a lot of them so will have a good perspective.

by Laimport 8/20/2012, 2:42 pm

Some are better than others, love your refs.

Hopefully they can continue to develop as individual players as well as collectively.

by Yak Attack 8/21/2012, 12:21 am

Ah yes that old familiar tune, classic league is doomed. First it was adding D2 to the very select top 10 of D1, then God forbid adding the D3 to completely water down the league. Now it's the DA stealing away all...2-3 top teams in D1 in any given U15-U19 age group.

Doomed I say...DOOMED!! Well maybe not doomed, but... clown

ps - So how does the PA affect classic? After all it's the same PA that's always been there.

by Laimport 8/21/2012, 8:41 am

I thought PA was rather new?

I had an interesting conversation with a NTX coach. He said he recently picked up a former PA player. This PA player is "way behind technically" according to this coach. But, the kid has plenty of size and speed.

At the younger age groups (U11-14) the 'top teams' in CL mostly consist of bigger, faster, stronger players that are fortunate to be born at the front of the age group and are early developers physically. (Mostly defenders and forwards.)

We all know those teams tend to win by virtue of their size and speed. This carries over into PA.

FCD being the 'exception' to the rule.

However, when you learn to play properly, with technique and tactical awareness, you end up being better when the physical differences even out. And it happens..a lot.

I've talked to too many former high level players and coaches to dismiss this simple fact.

I'm not saying athleticism isn't important. It is very important. But a player has to have the right mix of technique, brains and athleticism to become exceptional.

Which is why nationally and locally, our player id programs are flawed. The system isn't developing more complete players.

This is also why the Euro and South American academies cast much "wider nets" when it comes to player id and selection. And even they get it wrong sometimes.

Our system is built around the upward mobility of teams and "team success" vs the more difficult, long term system of preparing players (teaching) for the next level.

Dallas Cup serves as a local example. The overseas youth teams generally will send several underaged players to participate in this tournament. A U19 team is likely to have several 15 and 16 yr olds on the roster.

So, the mindset that some team (from out of nowhere) can't play 'proper football' because they haven't beaten "the best teams yet" is well, ridiculous.

by Turftoe96 8/21/2012, 8:52 am

Some of you guys need to get a new hobby! Since you enjoy analyzing the numbers so much, maybe fantasy football or something like that.
Let your kids play where they want as long as their happy. Just hope they turn out to be good people.
All this crap means nothing in the big scheme of things. Remember it's your kid’s life to live and you’re just there to guide them, not live vicariously through them. Quit putting so much emphasis on PA/DA/CL, they are all good.
If your kid is a stud he’ll get noticed and if he’s not at least he’ll be happy.
Sit back and enjoy the ride.

by Laimport 8/21/2012, 9:40 am

Thanks for your words of wisdom, turftoe.

I'm passionate about the game. Period. I make no apologies for that.

That said, that's why it's called a 'forum'.

I would imagine that's why people post on here. They have opinions.

Yourself included.

Gotta commend you on your avatar. It's go99 quality!

Cheers!

by Guest 8/21/2012, 10:12 am

Laimport wrote:I thought PA was rather new?

I had an interesting conversation with a NTX coach. He said he recently picked up a former PA player. This PA player is "way behind technically" according to this coach. But, the kid has plenty of size and speed.

At the younger age groups (U11-14) the 'top teams' in CL mostly consist of bigger, faster, stronger players that are fortunate to be born at the front of the age group and are early developers physically. (Mostly defenders and forwards.)

We all know those teams tend to win by virtue of their size and speed. This carries over into PA.

Your argument may have been correct a few years ago, but at least with the younger age groups in Classic League, I think you are mistaken. In the 01 and 02 age groups, the tops teams play a possession style of soccer and do not rely solely on great athletes. If you look at the 01 age group you have Solar Red, DTS and DT Gall that play a possession style of soccer and are the top three teams. The FCD teams also do as well.

If you look at the 02 age group, you have DTS, Solar Dynamo, Solar Red and the FCD teams that can play possession soccer. The system in North Texas is changing and going in the right direction.

Have no idea about PA players, but would expect the best players from these teams to also be PA players and they are already working on skilled, possession play. The landscape is changing, even if slow. Just look at the spike in popularity of Futsal with the Dallas City Futsal folks. The message is getting across.

by Laimport 8/21/2012, 10:27 am

That sounds encouraging.

But physicality is less of a factor at u11. At u12 and up, puberty rears its head.

I'd love to see CL go to a small sided format...at least 8v8 for the u11/12 age groups.

Plus, it is easier to train rosters of 12 players (ideal for 8v8) than 16-18.

by Soccerinsanity 8/21/2012, 10:53 am

Amen, LA! And while luckily, my bb is big enough to not have the problem, I have seen other kids be told they aren't big enough in the 99 bracket. And to clarify, it's some of the big name club coaches that do it, not the indy.

by Big Swoosh 8/21/2012, 12:02 pm

Laimport wrote:I thought PA was rather new?

I had an interesting conversation with a NTX coach. He said he recently picked up a former PA player. This PA player is "way behind technically" according to this coach. But, the kid has plenty of size and speed.

At the younger age groups (U11-14) the 'top teams' in CL mostly consist of bigger, faster, stronger players that are fortunate to be born at the front of the age group and are early developers physically. (Mostly defenders and forwards.)

We all know those teams tend to win by virtue of their size and speed. This carries over into PA.

FCD being the 'exception' to the rule.

However, when you learn to play properly, with technique and tactical awareness, you end up being better when the physical differences even out. And it happens..a lot.

I've talked to too many former high level players and coaches to dismiss this simple fact.

I'm not saying athleticism isn't important. It is very important. But a player has to have the right mix of technique, brains and athleticism to become exceptional.

Which is why nationally and locally, our player id programs are flawed. The system isn't developing more complete players.

This is also why the Euro and South American academies cast much "wider nets" when it comes to player id and selection. And even they get it wrong sometimes.

Our system is built around the upward mobility of teams and "team success" vs the more difficult, long term system of preparing players (teaching) for the next level.

Dallas Cup serves as a local example. The overseas youth teams generally will send several underaged players to participate in this tournament. A U19 team is likely to have several 15 and 16 yr olds on the roster.

So, the mindset that some team (from out of nowhere) can't play 'proper football' because they haven't beaten "the best teams yet" is well, ridiculous.

In rebuttal to your comment….I would say it's all most a ludicrous as someone out of nowhere coming on the forum and in their "humble opinion" stating they have a top 10 D1 team that plays proper football after winning 2012 Texas Summer Classic.

Below are the teams you beat in the 2012 Texas Summer Classic… rather “convincing” as you put it in your earlier post. Definately it's a strong viewpoint to anoint ETP as a good team.

SOLAR 97 GOLD
Record: W-D-L 14-4-16

FC DALLAS YOUTH 97B SILVER
Record: W-D-L 17-3-17

TYLER SHOCK UNITED FC 97B
Record: W-D-L 7-3-4

DALLAS TEXANS 97 B RED WEST
Record: W-D-L 14-4-13

ETP beating teams with a combined Record: W-D-L 52-14-50 definitely makes ETP a legitimate d1 level team. Oh sorry…I meant it makes them a very good team that plays proper football….LOL.

Dude… lay off the crack pipe.

by Laimport 8/21/2012, 12:50 pm

Crack pipe, huh?

You are the one with the mime/pedophile looking avatar, dude.

maybe you should lay off the acid.

If you are going to continue to quote me out of context, all you are accomplishing is that you know even less than you think you do.

Won-loss records? Really? is that the best you can do?

I said the tournament win was done in a rather convincing fashion. GF 11, GA 2. Over 5 games.

Never said that ETP could beat the top NTX teams. At most, I said that I felt they could "compete" with top 10 teams. Does that make it so? No.

Swoosh, I remember last year you came out of your cave...shooting down PLD tournament results in much the same manner. (Referring to 98's)

Again, because apparently you didn't check the origin of the thread, it wasn't myself, nor any ETP parent, coach or player that paid the team a compliment regarding their play.

Bring something fresh to the table. Instead of regurgitating your arrogant attitudes concerning any players or teams that aren't pa/da, top 2 D1...or whatever your skewed hierarchy on the youth soccer food chain may be.

I guess the last sentence of my last post struck a nerve with you?

As far as I'm concerned it's all a means to an end anyway.

I guess we'll have a better gauge after the November Texans tournament. Of course, what will your excuse be then, swoosh?

I guess if it isn't 'your' team, then everyone else is inferior in your mind?

be a man about it...fess up.

by man in the mirror 8/21/2012, 3:03 pm

]

Laimport wrote:]I thought PA was rather new?

I had an interesting conversation with a NTX coach. He said he recently picked up a former PA player. This PA player is "way behind technically" according to this coach. But, the kid has plenty of size and speed.

At the younger age groups (U11-14) the 'top teams' in CL mostly consist of bigger, faster, stronger players that are fortunate to be born at the front of the age group and are early developers physically. (Mostly defenders and forwards.)

We all know those teams tend to win by virtue of their size and speed. This carries over into PA.

FCD being the 'exception' to the rule.

However, when you learn to play properly, with technique and tactical awareness, you end up being better when the physical differences even out. And it happens..a lot.

I've talked to too many former high level players and coaches to dismiss this simple fact.

I'm not saying athleticism isn't important. It is very important. But a player has to have the right mix of technique, brains and athleticism to become exceptional.

Which is why nationally and locally, our player id programs are flawed. The system isn't developing more complete players.

This is also why the Euro and South American academies cast much "wider nets" when it comes to player id and selection. And even they get it wrong sometimes.

Our system is built around the upward mobility of teams and "team success" vs the more difficult, long term system of preparing players (teaching) for the next level.

Dallas Cup serves as a local example. The overseas youth teams generally will send several underaged players to participate in this tournament. A U19 team is likely to have several 15 and 16 yr olds on the roster.

So, the mindset that some team (from out of nowhere) can't play 'proper football' because they haven't beaten "the best teams yet" is well, ridiculous.

My question is simply how many PA/DA games you have attended? Which team FC Dallas was playing since they are the 'exception' to the rule. I just think in order to talk about the development of PA players you have to have seen several games.

by Laimport 8/21/2012, 3:51 pm

I've seen enough. (Although I am more familiar with FC Dallas' 97PA team.)

And, from what I've seen they are head and shoulders above the majority of youth teams I've witnessed.

Now, I'm not saying the other 3 aren't trying to teach technically and tactically smart soccer.

I guess it depends on what an individual's definition of success is. (With regard to the individual player.)

The end result.

If playing in college is the endgame, then you measure results based on that. From a development/end result point of view, the da/pa might be a step in the right direction, but it is far from being as good as it should be.

I give them credit from a business point of view. The program is sanctioned by ussf...so there's automatic credibility there. Therefore, there's been a huge 'buy in'.

But when you get down to it...they are still doing things the 'old way'. In other words, it isn't a drastic change from what club soccer has always been.

Put another way, there are countries with much smaller player populations than NTX that manage to produce better players.

The true standard is global.

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