what if.......

I was recently talking with the few soccer friends that i have and a few things have been brought up and mentioned but this was the one thing that got me really thinking?
seeing that the latest and greatest league pre academy has taken a massive toll on most if not ALL top D1 teams not including the turnover each year already in D1 and the fact that most D2 and D3 teams are usually untouched, this being told by outcomes of games in tourneys, what if classic league decided to requalify all 30 teams in a tournament just like at U11? would that play a factor in coaches and players going to certain teams and the training they do? Im very sure that would shake up things a bit and that D1,D2,and D3 would look a bit different

and just for fun reseed the teams in the divisions you think they would be in,just for fun you know

discuss..........

shoots myself thinking of what would happen to the coaches' mental status.

I dont even think you really need to have three divisions... playing teams twice is useless if rankings don't really matter. 2 divisions of 20 teams, where you play every team once. Teams get a bye if they finish in the top 10 or so (just to give some incentive for doing well), and the rest try to qualify for the remaining 30 spots. That'd be a pretty cool idea, and might hold teams together a little better. Also, it would help teams who recruit well one summer from being stuck detroying weaker teams unnecessarily.

And also, I always hear that the gap from 20-40 is very close... so it would it make sense that a group for the top 1-20 teams, and the top 21-40 teams would make sense. And for teams that are in the 1-10 category, it lets them see a little more variety in style of play with teams in the 11-20 bracket. They might destroy them, but I bet they'll see some things that require the boys to think.

Or even require coaches to teach instead of recruiting!

Give it a year...as soon as CL realizes the tourney fees potential, this baby is a done deal!

omega striker wrote: I was recently talking with the few soccer friends that i have and a few things have been brought up and mentioned but this was the one thing that got me really thinking?
seeing that the latest and greatest league pre academy has taken a massive toll on most if not ALL top D1 teams not including the turnover each year already in D1 and the fact that most D2 and D3 teams are usually untouched, this being told by outcomes of games in tourneys, what if classic league decided to requalify all 30 teams in a tournament just like at U11? would that play a factor in coaches and players going to certain teams and the training they do? Im very sure that would shake up things a bit and that D1,D2,and D3 would look a bit different

and just for fun reseed the teams in the divisions you think they would be in,just for fun you know

discuss..........

Thats or some form of it is an outstanding idea. `Great way to keep people on their toes.

Soccerinsanity wrote:Give it a year...as soon as CL realizes the tourney fees potential, this baby is a done deal!

Plano already has a qualifying tournament every year. I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do it if it didn't make them money.

Instead of having the bottom two finishers from D3 and top two from both Arlington and Plano, they could have a massive tournament. I bet the top third of Plano D1 teams would want to participate. Classic could exempt the top finisher from Classic D2 and D3 (rewarding them for winning their division by guaranteeing they move up). There are lots of ways to work this out.

I was actually at a NTSA board meeting where this topic briefly was briefly entertained and I believe it peaked the interest of most!!! More feed back people !!!. Remember. We are the consumer and I believe it benefits all parties!! Well said OS

Ironing out the details would be tricky but I think it's a good idea. Any change will probably meet resistance not matter what.

Teams should re-qualify though. It might actually help reduce the "we must win at all costs now" mentality during the regular season. For the top teams that would still be the case but beyond that, for the teams that know they will miss the bye, they should be able to take a deep breath and realize they have to build up their players for next year too... not just next weekend.

Also... Anything we can do to get away from the horrendous way League Byes are currently managed is a good thing.

I agree with earlier post that it will be driven by $. Once they see the $'s generated by the number of teams trying to claim the 8 spots that will be up for grabs in D3, it will only be a matter of time.

I'd like to see a qualifying option for newly formed teams and/or 'redesigned' older teams to get into D1.

It really doesn't make sense to start at the bottom (D3) as a u15/16 team.

I agree with bigtex on the league bye thing completely. Clubs shouldn't be able to keep their league byes without roster continuity/stability.

so you are saying that kids who chose to stay on the team should lose their spot because others chose to leave?

I think 2 division of 20 teams makes more sense. That way you don't have to play teams twice. Top half stays up as a reward and the rest requalify. That would also allow new teams to come in and qualify for D1. The bye stays with the club unless 70% choose to leave together. If the club can't field a competative team it would only be a season before they drop out anyway

It is a horrible idea. It main selling point is what? Making alot of money for the host league? New teams at U15/16 are not going to be D1 caliber unless it is a restructuring or make over of a current D1 team anyway. Open qualifying for D3 is already coming. Requalifying for all divisions would put even more emphasis on win now at all costs. The best teams usually do not start out the best but are continuing to develop over the course of the year. It is a journey and it is where you end up that matters not where you started. This idea would turn that upside down. Very bad idea.

my2cents, I think if the structure is set up correctly, it won't be win at all costs. Firstly, the point of requalifying every year is to put teams in their proper level of play, regardless of if the team lost a lot of talent or gained a lot talent. I don't think anyone can argue that if a new team forms , and is capable of playing in D2, it is silly for them to play one year in PPL/APL, qualify for D3, win D3, qualify for D2, etc. They should be playing at the level of their talent, especially if we consider youth soccer "developmental". Second, a qualifying tournament occurs after signing day, meaning that the team you bring in is basically the team you will play with throughout the year. Because of the high number of player movement in between seasons, I think it would allow the best possible grouping of similar talent.

Likewise, I think that two divisions of 20 teams solves the problem of it being really cuttthroat, and will also help the problem of "qualifying tournament luck." If you're team is marginally in the top 20 (19 or 20th), then it really shouldn't matter if you are playing 1-20 or 21-40 (although I would argue that it is better to be playing 21-40 if you're right on the edge). It can't be any more cutthroat than it is now... think about it. D1 teams worrying abuot getting relgated, D2/D3 worrying about promotion, relegation, PPL/APL teams trying to qualify. You remove all of that in the season and strictly focus on just playing the games. Then, you worry about it come qualifying time. It makes the summer kind of suck, but it makes the season a lot more enjoyable. I imagine kids who are riding the pine would really appreciate it.

eh! Doesn't really matter anyway. Everybody knows all of the good players are in pre academy anyway

im liking the 2 divisions of 20 idea,so that would be D1 and D2 40 teams total

go, to answer succinctly, I say "no" that clubs keep their byes...

If more than 50% of the roster isn't the same...then, logically it isn't the same team anyway.

Agree on the 2 divisions of 20. "Home and away" isn't a factor in CL like it is in other leagues.

Find myself agreeing with LA..

Would take care of those pesky clubs that just replace one team with another, and then the new team does horrible. 20 and 20 would be fun, too!

okay so if half of the team leaves and goes to seperate teams then the other half is screwed because they now have no place to play. Let's call that the indie kill rule. Let's say a indie loses kids to pre academy or poached by big clubs. Now instead of pulling other kids from their area up the team has to fold and the kids often out of soccer. Where at the big club the bye goes but the remaining kids can just be folded into the other multitude of team no big deal. That will team those low cost indie teams. Take that barcelona, tigres, real madrid, wizards, toros etc.

go99 wrote:okay so if half of the team leaves and goes to seperate teams then the other half is screwed because they now have no place to play. Let's call that the indie kill rule. Let's say a indie loses kids to pre academy or poached by big clubs. Now instead of pulling other kids from their area up the team has to fold and the kids often out of soccer. Where at the big club the bye goes but the remaining kids can just be folded into the other multitude of team no big deal. That will team those low cost indie teams. Take that barcelona, tigres, real madrid, wizards, toros etc.

If there was a qualifier every year, then that indie team wouldn't need a bye... they could just recruit more players and qualify with their team. If they can't qualify, did they even deserve the bye in the first place?

edit: Or are you just talking about the bye rule in the current system now?

go, I understand your point. But the big clubs keeping their byes, especially when their roster change is 50% really does nothing to preserve the integrity of the league.

That said, yeah, it sucks for the players that stayed. But how often does a team actually stay as competitive when they lose players?

Look at TFC Royal 98. As u12's they were state champs. Steady decline after a lot of their players went to Solar. Now they have been relegated to D2.

Players make the teams...the clubs don't.

I'm more interested in having the right teams play at the right level.

Of course, the whole NTX tryout/open practice system is f'ed up anyway.

I don't think the indies should have it any easier. But I think there should be some type of qualifying process/system where a team could "qualify" for d1 based on their merit.

I think its a much bigger issue at U15 and above. At u11/12, I don't even believe in promotion/relegation. because level of competition isn't or shouldn't be the top priority...technical and tactical skill acquisition should be. But that's another thread...

Laimport wrote:go, I understand your point. But the big clubs keeping their byes, especially when their roster change is 50% really does nothing to preserve the integrity of the league.

That said, yeah, it sucks for the players that stayed. But how often does a team actually stay as competitive when they lose players?

Look at TFC Royal 98. As u12's they were state champs. Steady decline after a lot of their players went to Solar. Now they have been relegated to D2.

Players make the teams...the clubs don't.

I'm more interested in having the right teams play at the right level.

Of course, the whole NTX tryout/open practice system is f'ed up anyway.

I don't think the indies should have it any easier. But I think there should be some type of qualifying process/system where a team could "qualify" for d1 based on their merit.

I think its a much bigger issue at U15 and above. At u11/12, I don't even believe in promotion/relegation. because level of competition isn't or shouldn't be the top priority...technical and tactical skill acquisition should be. But that's another thread...

that was the team castro took with him from FCD then castro just took that same team to Solar minus a few kids that only got a few "minutes" of playing time so so basically just castro's team with different jerseys each year

oh and to my buddy Go99,i gotta disagree with you on one point,those kids on the big clubs that loses lets say 50% of the team they will find another team easy if they can play or pay either way they wont be left out unless they dont wanna really play anymore or never did play just wore out grooves on the aluminum benches just ask my kid he has made bench riding an art form and usually uses the chance to finish up homework since doing it at home is a big NO-NO thats time for PS3 and XBOX with friends online!

Go, how does it merit the big 4 giving the byes to the next team further down their own line? Two years in a row now, both FCD and Andro have pulled up PPL teams to replace CL teams...in d2????

my2cents wrote:It is a horrible idea. It main selling point is what? Making alot of money for the host league? New teams at U15/16 are not going to be D1 caliber unless it is a restructuring or make over of a current D1 team anyway. Open qualifying for D3 is already coming. Requalifying for all divisions would put even more emphasis on win now at all costs. The best teams usually do not start out the best but are continuing to develop over the course of the year. It is a journey and it is where you end up that matters not where you started. This idea would turn that upside down. Very bad idea.

In U17, FCDP is essentially a 'new' team and they will win D1

Goooal!!! wrote:

my2cents wrote:It is a horrible idea. It main selling point is what? Making alot of money for the host league? New teams at U15/16 are not going to be D1 caliber unless it is a restructuring or make over of a current D1 team anyway. Open qualifying for D3 is already coming. Requalifying for all divisions would put even more emphasis on win now at all costs. The best teams usually do not start out the best but are continuing to develop over the course of the year. It is a journey and it is where you end up that matters not where you started. This idea would turn that upside down. Very bad idea.

In U17, FCDP is essentially a 'new' team and they will win D1

and just lost one of the best strikers in the region!!!!!

omega striker wrote:

Goooal!!! wrote:

my2cents wrote:It is a horrible idea. It main selling point is what? Making alot of money for the host league? New teams at U15/16 are not going to be D1 caliber unless it is a restructuring or make over of a current D1 team anyway. Open qualifying for D3 is already coming. Requalifying for all divisions would put even more emphasis on win now at all costs. The best teams usually do not start out the best but are continuing to develop over the course of the year. It is a journey and it is where you end up that matters not where you started. This idea would turn that upside down. Very bad idea.

In U17, FCDP is essentially a 'new' team and they will win D1

and just lost one of the best strikers in the region!!!!!

unfortunate. to injury or otherwise?