Classic League - Cards on the rise?

Speaking to other teams, at least in U-15s, it seems that Refs are handing out many more cards this year versus last year. That seems to be true from my vantage point anyway. Many yellows and a few reds for what seem to be even challenges or 50/50 balls. (to be fair, I have seen no fouls called on what seem to be a clear card offensive too)

Anyone else seeing an increase in number of cards refs handing out versus previous years?

My son is in U-12 group. In our game yesterday we had a younger guy for a ref. In the first half he was letting the boys play pretty physical. Then the second half it started getting out of hand. He lost total control of the game and then the cards started flying. But there were some fouls that definitely needed a card and he didn't give one. This did not make sense to me but hey I'm not a ref. I guess we will see how it goes next week.

I found this form on the Classic League website. COACHES ASSESSMENT OF OFFICIALS FORM  

Foxes are grading the chickens?!

I think the lack of consistency frim the refs is what is causing me the most grief, and of course the cards accumulating after 3 games.

I do think it would be great if the coaches HAD to grade the refs after each game to create some accountability and track reacord of performance.

When I ref'd HS football, both coaches graded every game. Frequent reviews of performance with Head refs of league. Created accountability for sure!

Classic League has an active assessment program. Look for the assessors rotating through fields and speaking with the ref crews either at halftime or after games.

There are few coaches that actually know how to grade a referee.

There are even fewer spectators that actually know how to grade a referee.

I have seen the assessors out at Richland last year but haven't seen them in Frisco before. I agree that the consistency needs to be better and the refs need to watch out for the safety of the players. When you have a keeper that has clear possession of the ball and then gets wiped out that should be at least a yellow card if not a straight red. Also had players that were slide tackled and taken out from behind with cleats up. That should be straight red!

manufan20 wrote:I have seen the assessors out at Richland last year but haven't seen them in Frisco before. I agree that the consistency needs to be better and the refs need to watch out for the safety of the players.  When you have a keeper that has clear possession of the ball and then gets wiped out that should be at least a yellow card if not a straight red. Also had players that were slide tackled and taken out from behind with cleats up. That should be straight red!

Agreed!

nearpost95 wrote:Classic League has an active assessment program.   Look for the assessors rotating through fields and speaking with the ref crews either at halftime or after games.

There are few coaches that actually know how to grade a referee.  

There are even fewer spectators that actually know how to grade a referee.

Mr Ref. (just an assumption). The 'assessors' tend to come by when field marshals call them over b/c there is a problem. They only proactively watch if a formal complaint has been filed on a crew, or have reason to monitor. I checked this already with League.

Coaches wouldn't know to grade a referee? What?? Makes no sense. You saying b/c they don't the rules of the game?? Its easy to determine 'were calls consistent?', 'did Center Ref put himself in position to see play (move more than a 20 yard circle)?', 'Did ref keep control of the game?', etc...

I don't think anyone would suggest spectators would grade, b/c we all see what favors our own team (whether its CL, NFL, MLD, NBA, EPL, etc).

Bottom line - inconsistency in calls (one game X is a no call, other game a Yellow or Red) is difficult on players, as cards are being handed out like candy during trick-or-treat time!! And often ref won't even talk to player and give an explanation. I am tired of seeing them collect very, very good pay for sh*tty work!

IlikeEPL wrote:

nearpost95 wrote:Classic League has an active assessment program.   Look for the assessors rotating through fields and speaking with the ref crews either at halftime or after games.

There are few coaches that actually know how to grade a referee.  

There are even fewer spectators that actually know how to grade a referee.

Mr Ref.  (just an assumption).  The 'assessors' tend to come by when field marshals call them over b/c there is a problem.  They only proactively watch if a formal complaint has been filed on a crew, or have reason to monitor.  I checked this already with League.

Coaches wouldn't know to grade a referee?  What??  Makes no sense.  You saying b/c they don't the rules of the game??  Its easy to determine 'were calls consistent?', 'did Center Ref put himself in position to see play (move more than a 20 yard circle)?', 'Did ref keep control of the game?', etc...

I don't think anyone would suggest spectators would grade, b/c we all see what favors our own team (whether its CL, NFL, MLD, NBA, EPL, etc).

Bottom line - inconsistency in calls (one game X is a no call, other game a Yellow or Red) is difficult on players, as cards are being handed out like candy during trick-or-treat time!!  And often ref won't even talk to player and give an explanation.  I am tired of seeing them collect very, very good pay for sh*tty work!

I think it's safe to say - you have no idea what you are talking about.

You also have no idea as to the quality of refereeing you get at classic compared to the rest of the country. (Yeah, I went there).

The assessor program is not anything like you describe.

Your last sentence is crazy. $52 for a U17 middle, running 6+ miles over an hour and a half and having to process hundreds of calls, positioning, anticipating plays all while listening to "call it both ways", "handball", "hey, you're playing against two teams, keep your head in the game". Yeah, that's very good pay for that.... 

soccerman771 wrote:

IlikeEPL wrote:

nearpost95 wrote:Classic League has an active assessment program.   Look for the assessors rotating through fields and speaking with the ref crews either at halftime or after games.

There are few coaches that actually know how to grade a referee.  

There are even fewer spectators that actually know how to grade a referee.

Mr Ref.  (just an assumption).  The 'assessors' tend to come by when field marshals call them over b/c there is a problem.  They only proactively watch if a formal complaint has been filed on a crew, or have reason to monitor.  I checked this already with League.

Coaches wouldn't know to grade a referee?  What??  Makes no sense.  You saying b/c they don't the rules of the game??  Its easy to determine 'were calls consistent?', 'did Center Ref put himself in position to see play (move more than a 20 yard circle)?', 'Did ref keep control of the game?', etc...

I don't think anyone would suggest spectators would grade, b/c we all see what favors our own team (whether its CL, NFL, MLD, NBA, EPL, etc).

Bottom line - inconsistency in calls (one game X is a no call, other game a Yellow or Red) is difficult on players, as cards are being handed out like candy during trick-or-treat time!!  And often ref won't even talk to player and give an explanation.  I am tired of seeing them collect very, very good pay for sh*tty work!

I think it's safe to say - you have no idea what you are talking about.

You also have no idea as to the quality of refereeing you get at classic compared to the rest of the country.  (Yeah, I went there).

The assessor program is not anything like you describe.

Your last sentence is crazy.  $52 for a U17 middle, running 6+ miles over an hour and a half and having to process hundreds of calls, positioning, anticipating plays all while listening to "call it both ways", "handball", "hey, you're playing against two teams, keep your head in the game".  Yeah, that's very good pay for that.... 

Mr Ref - I invite you to come watch my bb game with me. You can bring your insights and commentary to the game.
Also Mr. Ref - to minimize the dramatic inconsistency from calls within game, let alone between games and crews is laughable.

I am sure you are one of the refs waiting to start the game until the volunteer manager dashes across the field to hand you cash...instead of ensuring the keeper's jersey isn't the same color as other teams. And to see the over weight center working his 20 yd radius...yeah.

The main point is accountability and consistency. So yeah Ref boy, I do get it. Like I said, as a HS football ref, I see how accountability can be increased.

PM me and I can formally invite you to watch a game with me...and you can assess ref and parents...deal?

I have seen refs that do hustle and move up and down the field to try and get into the best position possible. Then I have seen refs that barely move outside the center circle. Then you have the linesmen. You have the ones that call fouls and keep up with the play to make accurate offsides calls which is how it should be done. On the other hand there are the ones that lag behind the play and could not make an accurate offsides call if they wanted to because they were not in position to do it. The majority of the linesmen that I have seen never call fouls. They wouldn't raise that flag to save their life! I get it that it's super hot out and there is alot of running and you have parents an coaches that are screaming and hollering at you. But that is all part of the job that they signed up for!

So, are you complaining that this year there are more cards being given? Or not complaining about it?

I do agree that I've seen more cards being given, but I also know that many posters have complained that the refs weren't calling them in years past. I have seen at least 8 yellows in the past four weeks....and 7 of those were deserved. Not a bad stat, actually!

Yes I have seen more cards given this year so far. But the calls are very inconsistent. You have a 50/50 challenge and a player gets a card. For what? It was a good challenge by both players. Then you have challenges from behind at the ankles with cleats up that gets no card. Our ref let the game get out of control and he started showing yellow cards right and left. We had one player with double yellow. The other team had assistant coach booted and like 5 players with yellow cards. Then 2 of those 5 players got straight reds. The ref was trying to do something to get control of the game again but he had let it go to far. If he could have controlled it better earlier in the game there would not have been all the cards.

The players will have to get used to the fact that although soccer is a contact sport you have to challenge the ball with style and poise and not with brute force and reckless tackles. Rather keep the hormones in check that flying all over the field.

It really isn't the officials responsibility to "control" the game. That responsibility lies with the players and coaches. One major problem is with the quality of 1v1 defending. It's horrible. Players seem to learn early on that flying in or sliding into a player is an awesome tackle. Very few coaches seem to be coaching the technique of defending. Even our national team seems to forget some of the most basic elements of defending at times. If the first defender would close in at an angle, slow the attacker down, and then choose when to make the tackle, referees wouldn't have to clean up a mess of a soccer game. Now if the match would remain a soccer game instead of a hack fest with screaming parents on the sideline, they would save their cautions for those offenses that are deserving of the pretty little yellow card.

mrclean wrote:It really isn't the officials responsibility to "control" the game. That responsibility lies with the players and coaches. One major problem is with the quality of 1v1 defending. It's horrible. Players seem to learn early on that flying in or sliding into a player is an awesome tackle. Very few coaches seem to be coaching the technique of defending. Even our national team seems to forget some of the most basic elements of defending at times. If the first defender would close in at an angle, slow the attacker down, and then choose when to make the tackle, referees wouldn't have to clean up a mess of a soccer game. Now if the match would remain a soccer game instead of a hack fest with screaming parents on the sideline, they would save their cautions for those offenses that are deserving of the pretty little yellow card.

LAW 5 – THE REFEREE
The authority of the referee
Each match is controlled by a referee who has full authority to enforce the
Laws of the Game in connection with the match to which he has been
appointed.

Just in case: http://www.thefa.com/~/media/Files/PDF/the-fa-2013-14/fa-rules-2013-14/laws-of-the-game-2013-14.ashx

mrclean wrote:It really isn't the officials responsibility to "control" the game. That responsibility lies with the players and coaches. One major problem is with the quality of 1v1 defending. It's horrible. Players seem to learn early on that flying in or sliding into a player is an awesome tackle. Very few coaches seem to be coaching the technique of defending. Even our national team seems to forget some of the most basic elements of defending at times. If the first defender would close in at an angle, slow the attacker down, and then choose when to make the tackle, referees wouldn't have to clean up a mess of a soccer game. Now if the match would remain a soccer game instead of a hack fest with screaming parents on the sideline, they would save their cautions for those offenses that are deserving of the pretty little yellow card.

Uh . . . it kindof is his responsibility.  Both sides are trying to win - the ref is the judge - enforcing the rules of play.  One side might step over the line and break a rule - its the refs job to call them on it - call the foul, call the breaking of the rules.  If someone shows contempt - toss their butts.  They have to keep their cool while doing so though.  

The problem I see with some refs is when they let the crowds and coaches and players get them all upset acting.  When the ref starts acting upset, or acting like he doesn't know what to do, is when it gets out of control.  The ref has to take charge, but do so in an authoritative, CALM manner - showing he is the official for that match - and has control of the game, and of himself.   They have to do so from the start of the game.  

Yes, the teams and coaches need to control their players - but its the refs job to make sure the competitive nature of people doesn't get out of hand, because if you just let them play - without any intervention when fouls start happening- its going to get out of hand.

Players pick up pretty fast that a ref isn't calling anything.   It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the when players realize a ref isn't calling any fouls that they better hit the other player first, or else the other player is going to hit me first, and the ref won't do anything about it. That's when games start getting ugly.

Hum, well my son's team (U-15) has recieved 4 yellows so far, one for asking the ref, "what was that for" another one for putting his hands up like what? (not in a disrespectful way AT ALL) another for our forward making a shot at the goal, and a defender jumping at it and getting hit with the ball, and one more for our mid as to "diving" , he was between two players and landed on his butt - um, how can you DIVE and land on you BUTT?! really.

My other son's U-17 team had at least 8 yellow cards yesterday, and the "BIG CLUB" we were playing had their goalie called out and warned 3 yes THREE times, no card, another one flipped one of our players. in front of the ref, and was pulled aside and warned, and yet another one called one of our kids one of the most offensive names as to race, again ref heard it and the player was told to calm down. AND went to the hudle of the other club during half-time, and stayed with them throughout half time. That was both shocking, and disheartning, ya'll can all say what you want, be haters, i dont really care, you say refs call it fair but come on really?! I think its ridiculous what these poor underpayed refs having to run 6+ and getting any sympathy. They need to get off their power trip and call a decent, fair game. Its ridiculous for refs to have that kind of power. My son's have played since U-11 and I have never ever seen games called like these. Even our linesman was heard telling our center that his calls were wrong! What a bunch of untrained, unintelligent refs on a power trip. Their needs to be some assesors, or whatever it takes to get control of this situation before it gets worse!! my two sense, like it or not, i don't really care!     

IlikeEPL wrote:
Mr Ref - I invite you to come watch my bb game with me.  You can bring your insights and commentary to the game.
Also Mr. Ref - to minimize the dramatic inconsistency from calls within game, let alone between games and crews is laughable.

I am sure you are one of the refs waiting to start the game until the volunteer manager dashes across the field to hand you cash...instead of ensuring the keeper's jersey isn't the same color as other teams.  And to see the over weight center working his 20 yd radius...yeah.

The main point is accountability and consistency.  So yeah Ref boy, I do get it.  Like I said, as a HS football ref, I see how accountability can be increased.  

PM me and I can formally invite you to watch a game with me...and you can assess ref and parents...deal?

Why would anyone offer to sit with you for a game after some of the snarky comments? I'm more inclined to wonder about your ethical standing with TASO, you being a HS football ref. There are ethics rules for members of TASO.

nearpost95 wrote:

IlikeEPL wrote:
Mr Ref - I invite you to come watch my bb game with me.  You can bring your insights and commentary to the game.
Also Mr. Ref - to minimize the dramatic inconsistency from calls within game, let alone between games and crews is laughable.

I am sure you are one of the refs waiting to start the game until the volunteer manager dashes across the field to hand you cash...instead of ensuring the keeper's jersey isn't the same color as other teams.  And to see the over weight center working his 20 yd radius...yeah.

The main point is accountability and consistency.  So yeah Ref boy, I do get it.  Like I said, as a HS football ref, I see how accountability can be increased.  

PM me and I can formally invite you to watch a game with me...and you can assess ref and parents...deal?

Why would anyone offer to sit with you for a game after some of the snarky comments? I'm more inclined to wonder about your ethical standing with TASO, you being a HS football ref.  There are ethics rules for members of TASO.

Just to clarify...i mentioned when I ref'd, past tense. I no longer ref...wanted to ensure enough free time to gripe about refs.

02boys wrote:I found this form on the Classic League website. COACHES ASSESSMENT OF OFFICIALS FORM  

Keep in mind they only take teh assessment forms from coaches. they do not even accept from team managers.

I believe that the inconsistency in calls is the main reason for the cards. If the same fouls were called the same both ways the players would see that the game was being called fairly and just play the game. But yes there is a "big club" bias in calls. But I have seen this bias both positively and negatively against the "big club". I have seen refs give majority of the calls for the "big club" and other times I have seen the calls go against the "big club". You have refs that have probably played for one of the "big clubs" and tend to favor them with the calls. Then you have the refs that played for the "small clubs" and they tend to make the calls in their favor. I know that their will always be calls that were bad or missed one way or the other. But if they are consistent with them then both teams will know that hey we can do this or hey we can't get away with this and it will be a much better game for everyone ( ref, coaches, players, and parents).

manufan20 wrote:I have seen refs that do hustle and move up and down the field to try and get into the best position possible.  Then I have seen refs that barely move outside the center circle. Then you have the linesmen. You have the ones that call fouls and keep up with the play to make accurate offsides calls which is how it should be done. On the other hand there are the ones that lag behind the play and could not make an accurate offsides call if they wanted to because they were not in position to do it. The majority of the linesmen that I have seen never call fouls.  They wouldn't raise that flag to save their life! I get it that it's super hot out and there is alot of running and you have parents an coaches that are screaming and hollering at you.  But that is all part of the job that they signed up for!

While there is some truth in what you say, you can't completely put blame of lack of foul calls on the AR. The AR has to take direction from the center. The center prior to each game will tell the AR what he wants help with. Good center refs are open to letting the AR call as they see it, but somes centers will tell the AR to only watch offsides and throw ins. There are various reasons why a ref would not want to allow ARs to call things and that would get to be a long drawn out conversation.

I am a coach as well as a ref and having to wear both hats helps me understand what the other is having to deal with. I agree there are some referees that I have observed that seem to only be collecting a payday but most are definately trying to be fair but it can be difficult to watch 22 players on a field plus the coaches. Referees are responsible for keeping an eye out for safety of players from heat as well as from fouls plus as they get older help keep the peace from everyone. Oh and call fouls when they get a chance. They normally will be asked to officiate anywhere from 3 to 6 games a day usually without an extended break and they do not have option to be subbed out.

Being consistant is critical. I will give you that.

I agree that being a ref CAN be very hard. Having 3-6 games in this heat would be very difficult. Then on top of that you have everyone yelling at you for this and that. But from what I have seen from the refs that are consistent with their calls they have a much easier time doing their job. The coaches coach, the players play, the parents cheer, and the cards stay in the pocket. Everybody is happy, happy, happy!