01 Classic Team Evaluations

No doubt there is work to be done by all teams. Nothing will be given easily this year.

Interestingly enough though, the game winner on Sunday was a perfectly weighted ball that split the two CB's to a cutting forward. Sir, it was nice.

Go North Carolina, I mean UCLA, ugh....I mean Andro, go Andro!

jack0fspeed wrote:

PG-Boy wrote:KING TUT 2012

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> Andromeda had their new-look on display. Wow, once they practice/play together, they will be a super D2 team. I really like their size and speed. A few more games will show us they are D1 quality. It's not easy absorbing EIGHT new players. I'm now predicting they will finish in the Top 2, and move to D1 next year.

...

I was at Puma and my son worked out w/Andromeda a few weeks ago.

At Puma, Wizards tied Olympians 2-2. Wizards did not appear to be in top form that night. They did miss 2 headers and 1 shot from inside the six yard box (missed them all over the goal). So the game might have been lopsided on a better night, but all of those opportunities were the result of defensive mistakes by the Olympians. The strength of the Wizard's game was serving crosses to their tall strikers. The quality of the service was simply outstanding. Finishing was another matter.

I didn't see the Solar games but I know they beat the Olympians 3-0 which is the closest those two have ever played. I'm inclined to think Solar was not at the top of their game either.

Andromeda is a team that definitely seemed to be collecting BSFs. But as far as I could tell, they were all born without the passing gene. They would much rather take a challenged shot from the wing than hit a wide open cutter streaking toward the far post. That collection of kids is not playing possession soccer anytime soon.

Your son is a good forward if he is the red head I remember.
Did you guys change teams or are you looking.

Madcap wrote:...
Interestingly enough though, the game winner on Sunday was a perfectly weighted ball that split the two CB's to a cutting forward. Sir, it was nice.

...

That's the kind of pass that Andromeda is going to have to make to be successful.

I'm not trying to be judgemental here ...a counter-attacking style is every bit as good as a possession style. Just look at Chelsea's victory over Barca in UEFA this year.

But playing style is what it is. To play possession style you need players that are always looking to pass and are constantly getting open without the ball. To play counter attacking style, you need players that can streak down the field and players that can get the ball to them behind the defense.

As good as Barcelona is, their personal would not work as a counter-attacking team. Similarly, Chelsea would be horrible if they tried to dominate possession.

Andro is going to win by getting the ball to their versions of Didier Drogba in the open field and letting them do their thing.

That's all I'm saying.

jack0fspeed wrote:

Madcap wrote:...
Interestingly enough though, the game winner on Sunday was a perfectly weighted ball that split the two CB's to a cutting forward. Sir, it was nice.

...

That's the kind of pass that Andromeda is going to have to make to be successful.

I'm not trying to be judgemental here ...a counter-attacking style is every bit as good as a possession style. Just look at Chelsea's victory over Barca in UEFA this year.

But playing style is what it is. To play possession style you need players that are always looking to pass and are constantly getting open without the ball. To play counter attacking style, you need players that can streak down the field and players that can get the ball to them behind the defense.

As good as Barcelona is, their personal would not work as a counter-attacking team. Similarly, Chelsea would be horrible if they tried to dominate possession.

Andro is going to win by getting the ball to their versions of Didier Drogba in the open field and letting them do their thing.

That's all I'm saying.

Jack, you're obviously basing your comments on your BB's practices a month ago when Andro was running tryouts. If you had actually seen the game that prompted this discussion, you would have seen a team that played the same possession style that FCD Premier played and hung with them very nicely. As a matter of fact, Premier - very much a possession team - uses the same attacking style of sending their skilled, fast wings for runs down the sideline with precision crosses and/or shots. Look at any of the best possession teams in our age group - Bazan and Solar Red come to mind - and they all execute those same types of offensive attacks. (not saying that Andro is anywhere near that caliber)

I think you are confusing kicking a ball over the back line's head and racing for it with a well slotted pass. Two very different things indeed!

Here's another example ...

The Italian national team's success at the European championships came when they shifted from a possession team to a counter-attacking team. They thought they had the players to play posession, but when they crated at the world cup and didn't look like a contender since then they changed their spots ... they moved Pirlo to just in front of the back 4 and he essentially launched the ball to Balotelli at every opportunity.

Obviously Balotelli is terrific playing that style, but in his role on Manchester City (a posession team) he's not nearly as effective.

Bottom line is that you have to play the style that best suits your personel.

slampg wrote:

jack0fspeed wrote:

Madcap wrote:...
Interestingly enough though, the game winner on Sunday was a perfectly weighted ball that split the two CB's to a cutting forward. Sir, it was nice.

...

That's the kind of pass that Andromeda is going to have to make to be successful.

I'm not trying to be judgemental here ...a counter-attacking style is every bit as good as a possession style. Just look at Chelsea's victory over Barca in UEFA this year.

But playing style is what it is. To play possession style you need players that are always looking to pass and are constantly getting open without the ball. To play counter attacking style, you need players that can streak down the field and players that can get the ball to them behind the defense.

As good as Barcelona is, their personal would not work as a counter-attacking team. Similarly, Chelsea would be horrible if they tried to dominate possession.

Andro is going to win by getting the ball to their versions of Didier Drogba in the open field and letting them do their thing.

That's all I'm saying.

Jack, you're obviously basing your comments on your BB's practices a month ago when Andro was running tryouts. If you had actually seen the game that prompted this discussion, you would have seen a team that played the same possession style that FCD Premier played and hung with them very nicely. As a matter of fact, Premier - very much a possession team - uses the same attacking style of sending their skilled, fast wings for runs down the sideline with precision crosses and/or shots. Look at any of the best possession teams in our age group - Bazan and Solar Red come to mind - and they all execute those same types of offensive attacks. (not saying that Andro is anywhere near that caliber)

I think you are confusing kicking a ball over the back line's head and racing for it with a well slotted pass. Two very different things indeed!

A posession style is when a team has the ball >60% of the time. You definitely can't have two teams playing posession style in one game.

I think what you are trying to tell me is that Andro had good build-up on their attacks.

I didn't see that game. So, time will tell if you are right. I remain skeptical.

Andromeda played confidently versus FCDP. It was clear to me they were making an effort at holding possession. The possession style was still tentative with the ball sometimes escaping their feet when pressured. With more practice their feet will get quicker and stickier. They were not playing long & high balls. I don't recall them kicking the ball out of bounds on defense like I see with a lot of teams.

You'll know they've converted to a possession style team when their keeper begins to play the ball out to the lateral defenders and they work the ball methodically up the field.

I actually typed a game report Monday, but never posted it. Kudos to Andromeda.

After watching these teams this is my breakdown- not in any order

Top 5

Coppell
Blue
Wizards
Andromeda
Keegan

Mid level

FCD south
Lp Chambers

Bottom tier

Lp Callaghan
Anoranzas
Strikers

PG-Boy wrote:Andromeda played confidently versus FCDP. It was clear to me they were making an effort at holding possession. The possession style was still tentative with the ball sometimes escaping their feet when pressured. With more practice their feet will get quicker and stickier. They were not playing long & high balls. I don't recall them kicking the ball out of bounds on defense like I see with a lot of teams.

You'll know they've converted to a possession style team when their keeper begins to play the ball out to the lateral defenders and they work the ball methodically up the field.

I actually typed a game report Monday, but never posted it. Kudos to Andromeda.

I don't think the goalie tells you much about any playing style.

Again the defining feature of possession soccer is having the ball most of the game. The idea is that you are limiting the opportunities of the other team and tiring them by making them play mostly defense.

What you are talking about is not a possession style. It's just having good build-up.

In what PG is saying , instead of the keeper punting the ball down the field and creating a 50/50 ball. The keeper plays the ball to his backs and keeps possesion. And I guess in your terms its a build up. If your building an attack isn't that having possesion?

jack0fspeed wrote:

PG-Boy wrote:Andromeda played confidently versus FCDP. It was clear to me they were making an effort at holding possession. The possession style was still tentative with the ball sometimes escaping their feet when pressured. With more practice their feet will get quicker and stickier. They were not playing long & high balls. I don't recall them kicking the ball out of bounds on defense like I see with a lot of teams.

You'll know they've converted to a possession style team when their keeper begins to play the ball out to the lateral defenders and they work the ball methodically up the field.

I actually typed a game report Monday, but never posted it. Kudos to Andromeda.

I don't think the goalie tells you much about any playing style.

Again the defining feature of possession soccer is having the ball most of the game. The idea is that you are limiting the opportunities of the other team and tiring them by making them play mostly defense.

What you are talking about is not a possession style. It's just having good build-up.

Jack - I have to respectfully disagree with your narrow definition of possession style. By your definition, if two possession style teams (team A & B) play each other, only team A can play the style because they had more time of possession. And what is team B doing? I would submit that they are also playing possession style - just not as effectively as team A. If I hunt an elephant, but never see or shoot one, am I not still hunting elephant?

slampg wrote:

Jack - I have to respectfully disagree with your narrow definition of possession style. By your definition, if two possession style teams (team A & B) play each other, only team A can play the style because they had more time of possession. And what is team B doing? I would submit that they are also playing possession style - just not as effectively as team A. If I hunt an elephant, but never see or shoot one, am I not still hunting elephant?

If you ask me whether I play golf I'll tell you, "no I don't play golf. I walk around golf courses whacking balls into the woods."

Seriously though ... it seems like some people's definition of posession soccer is a little loose. If we apply the nebulous and highly subjective definitions posed by some in this thread, I don't know what team isn't a "posession team". Yet clearly a whole lot of teams don't typically have the ball most of the time.

The way I look at it, time of posession is the acid test. Typically teams that can win posession by a wide margin in most of their games can also string together an unusually large number of passes when they get the ball. So that might be another measure of a posession team. But however you look at it, if the other team gets you out of your playing style, you are not playing that style.

Long balls force a lot of fierce 50/50 situations. This is the reason teams with BFS boys win a lot at this age. Bigger, faster, and stronger boys WILL OVERPOWER smaller opponents. Brute physical soccer. Possession ball at this age is very risky. But as boys get better at ball control and learn to confidently deal with extreme pressure, then possession style begins to win more than long-ball style.

You have to play this style to improve at this style. i.e. take your lumps until it's mastered. Teach the skillful possession game when the kids are young so they have time to master it. I witnessed Andromeda making their best attempt at a possession game on Sunday. They were not playing a long-ball game. Kudos to Andromeda.

In my opinion, the reason Solar and FCD are successful on a national level is because of their emphasis on possession ball at the very youngest ages. As many of you know, at the recent U17/U18 USSF national tournament, Solar and FCD vied for a spot in the championship game. Their current crop of 9-12 year olds will be better… OUTSTANDING by the age of 16-18, just wait. At the age of 18, FCD and Solar kids will have been playing possession ball since the age of 7−9. That's about 10 years(!) of repetitive short-passing in highly competitive situations.

Some highlights from the current USSOCCER Curriculum:
http://resources.ussoccer.com/n7v8b8j3/cds/downloads/Part%201%20-%20Style%20and%20Principles%20of%20Play%20U.S.%20Soccer%20Coaching%20Curriculum.pdf

In STYLE OF PLAY… Offensive style;
All teams will be encouraged to display an offensive style of play based on keeping possession and quick
movement of the ball.

In TACTICAL…
PLAYING OUT FROM THE BACK
All teams must feel comfortable playing the ball from the back through the midfield and from there to the
final quarter of the field.
POSSESS AND TRANSITION
All teams must try to keep possession of the ball playing a one-two touch game. Players will be encouraged
to support and move, thus creating passing options.


PLAYERS
1. 1, 2 or 3 touch maximum: Minimizing the number of touches improves
the speed of play.
2. Keep the game simple: Do not force situations, over-dribble or be careless with the ball.
3. Keep the ball on the ground: A ball on the ground is easier to control
and can be moved more efficiently by the team.

PG-Boy wrote:

...

What's your estimate of the posession percentages between FCD Premier and Andro?

Because Andromeda didn’t play longball and did a very decent job of defending and keeping the ball, FCDP wasn’t able to establish their rhythm in the first half. Through much of the first half, the game was even.

Second half, about 60/40 FCD. Primarily because FCD was losing and was making an effort to tie.

PG-Boy wrote:Because Andromeda didn’t play longball and did a very decent job of defending and keeping the ball, FCDP wasn’t able to establish their rhythm in the first half. Through much of the first half, the game was even.

Second half, about 60/40 FCD. Primarily because FCD was losing and was making an effort to tie.

OK, so roughly 55-45 for the game.

Now how many completed passes per possession?

Dang, I forgot my hand-held clicker counter!

Seriously, though, it's not about how many passes per possession, in my book. I didn't really count anyway. Very few teams will consistently string together 7-10 consecutive passes like Oglesby, Gentile or Pino's (OGP) teams. I counted Gentile's boys string together 16 passes one game. Another time, I witnessed Gentile score from a kick-off with 11 consecutive passes without the other team touching the ball. One way to reduce the possession % of one of these teams is to keep the ball AWAY from THEM as much as possible. Too often, teams smash the ball right back to them without any attempt at keeping the ball. OGP will methodically start moving the ball forward again. OGP teams are confident, patient and not easily frustrated.

But if you keep the ball, even if it's only 2-4 passes, you're forcing the other guys to chase you. The less they have the ball, the less opportunities they'll have. Andromeda pressured aggressively causing turn-overs and then kept the ball for short bursts. With more practice on keeping the ball, instead of strings of 2-4 passes, they'll string together 4-6, etc.

We don't always think of the possession teams as "defensive" teams. But they all have one key characteristic in common. They pressure across the entire breadth of the field like demons. Why? They want the ball back!

jack0fspeed wrote:

PG-Boy wrote:Because Andromeda didn’t play longball and did a very decent job of defending and keeping the ball, FCDP wasn’t able to establish their rhythm in the first half. Through much of the first half, the game was even.

Second half, about 60/40 FCD. Primarily because FCD was losing and was making an effort to tie.

OK, so roughly 55-45 for the game.

Now how many completed passes per possession?

Wow. I clearly am going to have to take a stopwatch and notepad to games from now on if we are requiring this much detail!