USSDA to Launch Under-13/14 Program in Fall 2013

So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.

'indyfc' the problem is there are only 19 mls clubs.

Thats way too small a talent pool. In addition, how many of these MLS academies are scouting outside of their metro areas? (My guess is damned few.)

How many have fullblown, actual residency programs? That are completely free to the players?

The other problem that hasn't been adressed is that these homegrown mls signings don't have the same opportunities as say overseas players.

The MLS would need fully integrated systems in place.

U19, u20, more comprehensive reserve team programs, etc.

So the problem is much more complex.

What we really need is a true soccer pyramid in this country. Professional soccer has been around long enough to implement promotion/relegation. (Despite the Don Garber bs rhetoric.)

Until then, college soccer will be the buffer between youth and MLS. it is the real "reserve/u23" level of American soccer.

What I'd like to see is more talented youth players going into the NASL and USL ranks. These are perfect 'minor league' developmental options for the top 1/2 percent of our youth players.

I watch a ton of college soccer. But the game has too many training restrictions placed on it by the ncaa. Look at baseball. College teams are allowed to essentially train year round.

I think there's more marketability for the lower pro leagues if they are branded developmental leagues.

The PDL is essentially extra games for college players...and an outlet for players either trying to get a break or make a comeback.

People will bring up the education component associated with college soccer. Two realities come into play here:

1. The majority of ncaa d1 athletes either do not complete their degrees ontime or even at all.
2. There is a way for a player to train fulltime as an aspiring professional AND pursue their degree.

A third reality is the pitiful amount of actual athletic scholarship $$$ is available to men.

Why not go make 20K in a lower league and pursue your degree on the side? if you haven't "made it" in 4/5 years, you are only a year or two behind your peers that went straight to college (fulltime) after high school. (Assuming you are a part time student during that 4/5 yr period.)

davito wrote:So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.

No, they aren't. Only dual-rostering between PA and CL, and very few at that.

ontherightside wrote:

davito wrote:So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.

No, they aren't. Only dual-rostering between PA and CL, and very few at that.

Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying. I could not recall if it was PA or DA. So the clubs & players are sticking to the philosophy of DA with fewer games then.

I have got the impression from posts on here that dual rostering is quite common. I think I heard Texans and Andromeda are running younger PA as a sort of overlay to their CL teams. i.e. pulling together their best players from CL periodically for PA training and games.

Laimport wrote:From what I've seen ODP is simply a vehicle for players looking to get into 2nd and 3rd tier college programs. It is still a vehicle for players from rural areas/small states.

I think it is safe to say that the overall quality of DA teams varies greatly.

NTX teams tend to do pretty well. From a competitive standpoint. (Developmentally? Who knows.)Probably CL does a decent job of "filtering" the better (more advanced) players.

The MLS DA teams are starting to do well. Where they have a decent infrastructure in place.

After the u13/14 birth year groups, ODP tends to lose its luster.

The important thing to keep in mind is that no single venue or program captures ALL the best players.

I understand about making "sacrifices" for my son's passion for the game. But most people don't pick up and move just for soccer.

Because of our culture's drive for 'results' I think expanding DA below U15 is a bad idea.

Up until u14/15 the single most important factor is development of fundamental, sound technique. A good soccer brain helps but it really is about the technique. (That's the approach every other footballing nation takes.)

So, it would seem logical that putting a 10/11 yr old into a high pressure, promotion/relegation and even a fullsided game environment does more harm than good.
So forming teams at u11 to compete in a results focused environment is actually a detriment.

They are still in skill acquisition mode.

Putting the kids into an enhanced program is one thing, but emphasizing high level competition and results above all else is a waste.

The purpose of an "academy" is to teach. Not to try to mimic the adult professional game in order to 'win now'. That said, winning and development aren't always mutually exclusive.

But in most cases winning involves taking short cuts. Because it's easier than teaching the right way.

The cons outweigh the pros by a wide margin. Players are forced to "play within themselves" and prematurely become 'role players' and pigeonholed into positions.

But I'm sure there will be plenty of parents with checkbooks in hand.

"Learn to play first. Learn to win later."

so you are saying get out of CL and run to the AL. No promotion or relegation there

go99 wrote:

Laimport wrote:From what I've seen ODP is simply a vehicle for players looking to get into 2nd and 3rd tier college programs. It is still a vehicle for players from rural areas/small states.

I think it is safe to say that the overall quality of DA teams varies greatly.

NTX teams tend to do pretty well. From a competitive standpoint. (Developmentally? Who knows.)Probably CL does a decent job of "filtering" the better (more advanced) players.

The MLS DA teams are starting to do well. Where they have a decent infrastructure in place.

After the u13/14 birth year groups, ODP tends to lose its luster.

The important thing to keep in mind is that no single venue or program captures ALL the best players.

I understand about making "sacrifices" for my son's passion for the game. But most people don't pick up and move just for soccer.

Because of our culture's drive for 'results' I think expanding DA below U15 is a bad idea.

Up until u14/15 the single most important factor is development of fundamental, sound technique. A good soccer brain helps but it really is about the technique. (That's the approach every other footballing nation takes.)

So, it would seem logical that putting a 10/11 yr old into a high pressure, promotion/relegation and even a fullsided game environment does more harm than good.
So forming teams at u11 to compete in a results focused environment is actually a detriment.

They are still in skill acquisition mode.

Putting the kids into an enhanced program is one thing, but emphasizing high level competition and results above all else is a waste.

The purpose of an "academy" is to teach. Not to try to mimic the adult professional game in order to 'win now'. That said, winning and development aren't always mutually exclusive.

But in most cases winning involves taking short cuts. Because it's easier than teaching the right way.

The cons outweigh the pros by a wide margin. Players are forced to "play within themselves" and prematurely become 'role players' and pigeonholed into positions.

But I'm sure there will be plenty of parents with checkbooks in hand.

"Learn to play first. Learn to win later."

so you are saying get out of CL and run to the AL. No promotion or relegation there

I won't lie... I would love to see a promotion/relegation system in the MLS. That format makes every game so much more interesting. There's no penalty right now for suckiness. Wouldn't you watch an FCD game on TV if you knew losing that particular game meant falling into the relegation zone? I know I would.

ontherightside wrote:

davito wrote:So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.

No, they aren't. Only dual-rostering between PA and CL, and very few at that.

Not True

ontherightside wrote:

krowdkontrol wrote:

go99 wrote:different governing bodies so pre academy doesn't neccesarily go away.

Interesting...Why would someone want to play Pre Academy U 13 or U 14, when they can play DA 13/14?

Same reason some current U15s play PA rather than DA U 15/16-because they did not make the u15/16 DA team.

good point bigtex. Regular season MLS games really don't mean much.

go, in all honesty, I think there probably isn't a huge difference (in approach or mentality) between tepal and classic league.

At least from the coaches and parents perspective.

U11/12 players should be playing 8v8. u10's should be playing 4v4 or maybe 6v6.

Again, look at the rest of the world.

"Academy" teams overseas generally only play friendlies. maybe 1 or 2 big tournaments a year. And depending on country they aren't always playing other academies either.

The games are simply a way of gauging the players' technical and tactical ability in a match environment.

Staying on point, an "academy" program should be mixing and matching players in different roles. Not building an 11 a side team. They should represent something closer to an 'indy' team...meaning it isn't focused on league play.

Mostly friendlies/scrimmages and the occasional tournament.

While its true development is just as important at the younger ages, using the u16/u18 DA approach will not help the 10-14 yr old player at all. Especially with the team/league approach of TEPAL and DA to a lesser extent.

If promotion/relegation, team focused regional and national leagues were really the answer...we'd see the rest of the world doing it.

Get em playing in pe, at recess and in the parks after school. Get them in a futsal league.

Driving to Austin, Houston and San Antonio on the weekends ain't the solution.

U11/12 players should be playing 8v8. u10's should be playing 4v4 or maybe 6v6.

I think you are way off with 4v4 at this age. The kids really enjoy the more structured game with goalies by this point. 6v6 or 7v7 is much better for their enjoyment of the game. I am not saying no 4v4. It is very useful and my son enjoys playing in the annual TFC 4v4 tournament but they get bored of 4v4 if they do too much of it.

A few comments about DA, that might not be represented well yet in this post.


-DA Developemental Players(DP) can play on other teams and are likely playing in other leagues like the classic league.

-Once a player becomes fulltime(FT)(usually around 18 on the team) he must start in 25% of the DA games...could be a 1 minute start but it is a start.FT players are no longer elgible to play on other teams/leagues. DP players become FT automatically after they play in 4 DA matches.

-Even with the 25% start rule though, it is hard to get and stay on the game field...And I see that as the biggest benefit to DA for developement. The practices are intense and focused, and there is a quality player either slightly ahead of you or behind you which helps keep your focus. Add the coach(es) that will teach quality posessive soccer, and you have a great place to develope 16+ year olds.

-The travel sucks....but its part of the experience...and brings even more intensity the practice.

IMHO, this kind of intense practice enviroment buys you less as you get younger. Teaching a U13/U14 not to make mistakes might stunt some skill developement. At U16 you are sharpening existing skill and learning to play faster without mistakes. Also, 13 or 14 year old might not be mentally or physically ready or just might not have enough fun to adjust to that enviroment. It all depends on the kid, and I am sure there are plenty that will thrive in it.

As far as ODP vs DA...Both might be good selection methods if they were not competing against each other, but ODP does not do much for player developement, they just don't have enough practices or games for that matter.

go99 wrote:It is impossible to mandate anything to the clubs. US soccer has put out recommendations that have then just been ignored by clubs. Parents on this very board have screamed don't change our soccer we just want to win now. Why develop because we wont be playing by the time we are 15. This is that solution. Leave regular soccer alone and start a new league for those that do want to develope. Now I do think they need to exert greater control over the clubs in the academy (i am looking at you Texans ) As far as the league goes it's supposed to be about the training not the games. The one problem I see is that if I take the same coach that has sucked with the same BS soccer he did before and move him into the AL all I really get is the same BS product I had before. BTW a club in Tulsa OK is attatched to the Kansas city team and their AL team.

Solid comments.

indyfc wrote:

Laimport wrote:The MLS DA teams are starting to do well. Where they have a decent infrastructure in place.

Funny you should say that... I believe that down the road the only clubs with DA teams will be the MLS clubs. US Soccer has more control over those clubs and can mandate their curriculum be followed as stated is needed on some of the posts above.

This would also further streamline the talent pool through the MLS and National Teams which is their ultimate goal.

They'll have the rest of the clubs go back to just CL or PA and developing players for colleges.

I think that is their end goal. Baby steps first and then a full on sprint.

I wonder when nonDA clubs will wake up and start embracing the same philosophy? Will they ever?

I'm sure there are nonDA clubs out there that do try to foster individual development.

Small clubs by their very nature do this in an indirect manner.

Let's say that you have a u11 player that is just way more advanced than his age group peers.

When you don't have 100 teams and 50 clubs to choose from, usually that player opts to play up an age group. Between u11-15 one age group is substantial. Now fast forward 2 or 3 years. That same player is playing up a year and training up 2, 3 or 4 age groups.

That player tends to train on his own and otherwise play at every opportunity. maybe even going to a park and playing pickup with adults. Or even playing in an adult hispanic league occasionally.

Don't get me wrong. This isn't the easiest or always the best route. But in many areas of the country, THIS is generally how talented players become great.

In fact, in the days before the megaclubs, superteams and development academy...this is how the best players came up.

They got the chance to be the stars of their youth and school teams. But more importantly they put themselves in positions where they were NOT the best player.

This is pretty much the difference between the usa and everywhere else. You played for your neighborhood club and in the streets.

Then at around 16, if you had the potential, you were picked up by a pro club. So at 17 or 18 you were training with and against adult professional players. (Or with an "amateur" adult team in a lower league.)

Platini, Zidane....

omega striker wrote:

ontherightside wrote:

davito wrote:So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.

No, they aren't. Only dual-rostering between PA and CL, and very few at that.

Not True

yes Partly true

You two want to explain?

If I understand it correctly, They have had CL players who will guest into academy games. However the number of games is limited and if they cross over a certian amount of AL playing they become AL players and can no longer be on their CL squads. Look at it like AL developmental players

oh and I am all for the no AL games with trainings and occasional games but then how does the AL make its money lol. Someone pointed out the major problem left with the AL is that it's focused on building great teams not great players,

go99 wrote:

omega striker wrote:

ontherightside wrote:

davito wrote:So are Texans, FCD, Solar and Andro dual rostering DA players in CL?

If so that would seem to contravene the DA rules.

No, they aren't. Only dual-rostering between PA and CL, and very few at that.

Not True

yes Partly true

you are correct!

go99 wrote:oh and I am all for the no AL games with trainings and occasional games but then how does the AL make its money lol. Someone pointed out the major problem left with the AL is that it's focused on building great teams not great players,

What money does the AL make? US Soccer charges only $8 per player registration with no team fee to the participants in the USSDA. They actually pay for travel to the year end showcase for qualified teams. US Soccer loses money on the DA program.

There is so much misinformation on this topic posing as fact it makes my head spin.

well then that mean at least they aren't misguided by greed, just misguided

finish1 wrote:The USSDA needs to set a curriculum that ensures a minumum standard level of training for the players. The premise of more training and fewer games in a fun environment sounds good, but each club is focused on winning all their games so they can compete for a National Championship at every age level.

There are also varying degrees of tactical training within the clubs. Hard to believe that in the DA system, there are still dad coaches paving the way for their own child at the expense of everyone else. Seems there should be some type of general tactical/technical training that all players in the system receive that is consistent with the expectations of the National Team.

ussoccer may not be making money with the DA.

But the DA clubs ARE making money!

Their DA teams are a marketing vehicle for their regular club and PA programs.

Otherwise, why would they be doing it?