Contracts ???

At what point does one file a complaint with NTSSA?  A few players  told they were playing specific positions (full time) for a specific team. One player told by coach that he was the team captain (on signing day) only to find himself sitting on the bench.  Is it fair to lie to a child in order to get him to sign a contract? Parents tried to resolve with coach directly, only to get ambiguous answers. How valid is this contract when a player and parents are outright lied to? When is the coach held accountable for lying (and much proof provided)? Any input is appreciated.

Surprised to hear that from an '00 parent... This happens every year. Select contracts and rules are designed to protect the club and sometimes the coach. Did you ask the coach to put these promises as part of the contract you signed?

Now, would it be fair for the rest of the team? What if a boy's, contracted to play 100% and to be captain, performance drops? Or what would the other team members think to have a captain that is not working as hard as they are and plays 100% of the time...

not happy? Move to another team and do a better job learning more about these coaches.

wembleys wrote:Surprised to hear that from an '00 parent... This happens every year. Select contracts and rules are designed to protect the club and sometimes the coach. Did you ask the coach to put these promises as part of the contract you signed?

Now, would it be fair for the rest of the team? What if a boy's, contracted to play 100% and to be captain, performance drops? Or what would the other team members think to have a captain that is not working as hard as they are and plays 100% of the time...

not happy? Move to another team and do a better job learning more about these coaches.

Posted in the wrong age group on purpose I believe. Her son is an...well, I'm sure it's easy to figure out.

I am afraid it happens quite frequently. Players and parents are told all sorts of half truths. After many years in this process I have to say that the parent will be guaranteed 2 practice sessions per week (well sometimes not even that). The rest is not certain no matter what the coach is telling you about your child. Most of the coaches will not even tell the player what is wrong and what the player needs to correct in order to get better and is left up to the parent and the player to figure it out. If your child truly needs to evolve as a soccer player he/she needs to work beyond what the club has to offer. Most of the learning is done individually (including camps, pick up soccer, with dad in the back yard, watching the professionals in your players position etc). Sorry but this is the sad state of affairs (with few exceptions).

Real Barcelona wrote:I am afraid it happens quite frequently. Players and parents are told all sorts of half truths. After many years in this process I have to say that the parent will be guaranteed 2 practice sessions per week (well sometimes not even that). The rest is not certain no matter what the coach is telling you about your child. Most of the coaches will not even tell the player what is wrong and what the player needs to correct in order to get better and is  left up to the parent and the player to figure it out. If your child truly needs to evolve as a soccer player he/she needs to work beyond what the club has to offer. Most of the learning is done individually (including camps, pick up soccer, with dad in the back yard, watching the professionals in your players position etc). Sorry but this is the sad state of affairs (with few exceptions).

very well stated RB. my son recently was selected to region 3 ODP pool for 00 boys (i know odp is another juicy discussion ) and our State coaches were surprised lol because he was high on the political dept chart. my son has never had "the best" coaching but he has always had a ball at his foot and plays wall ball coutless hours every day. so yes IT IS UP TO THE PARENTS and their athlete.

wembleys wrote:Surprised to hear that from an '00 parent... This happens every year. Select contracts and rules are designed to protect the club and sometimes the coach. Did you ask the coach to put these promises as part of the contract you signed?

Now, would it be fair for the rest of the team? What if a boy's, contracted to play 100% and to be captain, performance drops? Or what would the other team members think to have a captain that is not working as hard as they are and plays 100% of the time...

not happy? Move to another team and do a better job learning more about these coaches.

My bad, yes I did post in the wrong age group. Yes, should be the 03 age group. Yes, player was told directly by coach what his position was team captain as well as train specifically in that position at practice. I was there, I heard the verbal comittment. My sons first time signing & I wished I would have asked for it in writing, but I'm not one to distrust nor expect the worst (to be outright lied to). A bit more complicated situation where it did confuse the team, he did not have the opportunity to play his position or lead at all except in game 3-- team won 3-0, he did lead and played his position well played 100% of the game.

Was also told that he was on the other team, but the second team needed him more. He was excited to play on either team, trusted in the words he was told. The coach ignored texts and phone calls & when I finally spoke to him, he said he could not remember anything as well as had an additionial list of weak excuses. Another player signed the other contract with the other team only to get switched to this team last minute. Both players confidence shot down, distrust in the coach, (which we recently found out does not carry the correct license). I'm an educated parent, I'm sad to see this happen as I know it would not have, had I had things put into writing. Maybe this will help another player/parent in the future who gets lured in with false truths. My bb set up with an excellent training program this year & he looks forward to training hard with various coaches to improve his game. The biggest obstacle will be in his ability to get his confidence back. Thank you all for your input.

fastforward wrote:

wembleys wrote:Surprised to hear that from an '00 parent... This happens every year. Select contracts and rules are designed to protect the club and sometimes the coach. Did you ask the coach to put these promises as part of the contract you signed?

Now, would it be fair for the rest of the team? What if a boy's, contracted to play 100% and to be captain, performance drops? Or what would the other team members think to have a captain that is not working as hard as they are and plays 100% of the time...

not happy? Move to another team and do a better job learning more about these coaches.

My bad, yes I did post in the wrong age group. Yes, should be the 03 age group. Yes, player was told directly by coach what his position was team captain as well as train specifically in that position at practice. I was there, I heard the verbal comittment. My sons first time signing & I wished I would have asked for it in writing, but I'm not one to distrust nor expect the worst (to be outright lied to). A bit more complicated situation where it did confuse the team, he did not have the opportunity to play his position or lead at all except in game 3-- team won 3-0, he did lead and played his position well played 100% of the game.

Was also told that he was on the other team, but the second team needed him more. He was excited to play on either team, trusted in the words he was told. The coach ignored texts and phone calls & when I finally spoke to him, he said he could not remember anything as well as had an additionial list of weak excuses. Another player signed the other contract with the other team only to get switched to this team last minute. Both players confidence shot down, distrust in the coach, (which we recently found out does not carry the correct license). I'm an educated parent, I'm sad to see this happen as I know it would not have, had I had things put into writing. Maybe this will help another player/parent in the future who gets lured in with false truths. My bb set up with an excellent training program this year & he looks forward to training hard with various coaches to improve his game. The biggest obstacle will be in his ability to get his confidence back. Thank you all for your input.

@fastforward - very sorry that this happened to you bb. I think the most important thing you should really think long and hard is this - what is the best outcome you can hope for in this situation. The most important actor here is your bb, no one and nothing else matters in the long run. They have a long way to go.. confidence will be gained back little by little with baby step progresses they make along the way. They must want it themselves in the first place. The rest will come. It looks though you still want to work things out with the current coach and make the best out of bb's 1st season. Seems to me you are not trying to publicly vilify the coach by first posting on the wrong age group. If you have lost confidence in this individual completely, that's a different story. You can officially appeal and things will get ugly. But I am sorry to say that your option is very limited. Contracts are designed to protect the clubs, IMO. Also to keep in mind that coaches are normal human beings. It is probably more common than acknowledged publicly that coaches tell white lies and half truth during recruiting season and do not deliver on their empty promises. All coaches probably do that at some point. Blame the competitiveness of youth soccer? Blame win at all cost society? Don't know. Also some coaches would, intentionally or unintentionally, fake their resumes. That's more serious but remember youth soccer reflects the bigger society. How many times we heard and read about folks faking their CV's to get that big CEO job and got into trouble. The stakes are not that high here... the worst case? they will lose their coaching job... I would talk to bb and figure out objectively where he is at. Objectivity is the key here. Did he always start the previous season? is he an impact player during qualifier games? is he a scorer at key times or a staunch defender who saved a sure goal in big games? More importantly try to figure out the specific things bb should focus on and work on them at home, maybe consider private lessons to work on these things. Lastly, if you have to confront the coach, please keep that away from the public and especially keep it away from your bb. The last thing you want is a big public drama. All the best!!

fastforward wrote:

wembleys wrote:Surprised to hear that from an '00 parent... This happens every year. Select contracts and rules are designed to protect the club and sometimes the coach. Did you ask the coach to put these promises as part of the contract you signed?

Now, would it be fair for the rest of the team? What if a boy's, contracted to play 100% and to be captain, performance drops? Or what would the other team members think to have a captain that is not working as hard as they are and plays 100% of the time...

not happy? Move to another team and do a better job learning more about these coaches.

My bad, yes I did post in the wrong age group. Yes, should be the 03 age group. Yes, player was told directly by coach what his position was team captain as well as train specifically in that position at practice. I was there, I heard the verbal comittment. My sons first time signing & I wished I would have asked for it in writing, but I'm not one to distrust nor expect the worst (to be outright lied to). A bit more complicated situation where it did confuse the team, he did not have the opportunity to play his position or lead at all except in game 3-- team won 3-0, he did lead and played his position well played 100% of the game.

Was also told that he was on the other team, but the second team needed him more. He was excited to play on either team, trusted in the words he was told. The coach ignored texts and phone calls & when I finally spoke to him, he said he could not remember anything as well as had an additionial list of weak excuses. Another player signed the other contract with the other team only to get switched to this team last minute. Both players confidence shot down, distrust in the coach, (which we recently found out does not carry the correct license). I'm an educated parent, I'm sad to see this happen as I know it would not have, had I had things put into writing. Maybe this will help another player/parent in the future who gets lured in with false truths. My bb set up with an excellent training program this year & he looks forward to training hard with various coaches to improve his game. The biggest obstacle will be in his ability to get his confidence back. Thank you all for your input.

Sounds like you need a "bridge over troubled waters", if so, I recommend finding a new coach that can actually develop your son, make practice/playing fun. The money is meaningless compared to your son's next 10 months.

1halfback wrote:

fastforward wrote:

wembleys wrote:Surprised to hear that from an '00 parent... This happens every year. Select contracts and rules are designed to protect the club and sometimes the coach. Did you ask the coach to put these promises as part of the contract you signed?

Now, would it be fair for the rest of the team? What if a boy's, contracted to play 100% and to be captain, performance drops? Or what would the other team members think to have a captain that is not working as hard as they are and plays 100% of the time...

not happy? Move to another team and do a better job learning more about these coaches.

My bad, yes I did post in the wrong age group. Yes, should be the 03 age group. Yes, player was told directly by coach what his position was team captain as well as train specifically in that position at practice. I was there, I heard the verbal comittment. My sons first time signing & I wished I would have asked for it in writing, but I'm not one to distrust nor expect the worst (to be outright lied to). A bit more complicated situation where it did confuse the team, he did not have the opportunity to play his position or lead at all except in game 3-- team won 3-0, he did lead and played his position well played 100% of the game.

Was also told that he was on the other team, but the second team needed him more. He was excited to play on either team, trusted in the words he was told. The coach ignored texts and phone calls & when I finally spoke to him, he said he could not remember anything as well as had an additionial list of weak excuses. Another player signed the other contract with the other team only to get switched to this team last minute. Both players confidence shot down, distrust in the coach, (which we recently found out does not carry the correct license). I'm an educated parent, I'm sad to see this happen as I know it would not have, had I had things put into writing. Maybe this will help another player/parent in the future who gets lured in with false truths. My bb set up with an excellent training program this year & he looks forward to training hard with various coaches to improve his game. The biggest obstacle will be in his ability to get his confidence back. Thank you all for your input.

@fastforward - very sorry that this happened to you bb. I think the most important thing you should really think long and hard is this - what is the best outcome you can hope for in this situation. The most important actor here is your bb, no one and nothing else matters in the long run. They have a long way to go.. confidence will be gained back little by little with baby step progresses they make along the way. They must want it themselves in the first place. The rest will come. It looks though you still want to work things out with the current coach and make the best out of bb's 1st season. Seems to me you are not trying to publicly vilify the coach by first posting on the wrong age group. If you have lost confidence in this individual completely, that's a different story. You can officially appeal and things will get ugly. But I am sorry to say that your option is very limited. Contracts are designed to protect the clubs, IMO. Also to keep in mind that coaches are normal human beings. It is probably more common than acknowledged publicly that coaches tell white lies and half truth during recruiting season and do not deliver on their empty promises. All coaches probably do that at some point. Blame the competitiveness of youth soccer? Blame win at all cost society?  Don't know. Also some coaches would, intentionally or unintentionally, fake their resumes. That's more serious but remember youth soccer reflects the bigger society. How many times we heard and read about folks faking their CV's to get that big CEO job and got into trouble. The stakes are not that high here... the worst case? they will lose their coaching job...  I would talk to bb and figure out objectively where he is at. Objectivity is the key here. Did he always start the previous season? is he an impact player during qualifier games? is he a scorer at key times or a staunch defender who saved a sure goal in big games? More importantly try to figure out the specific things bb should focus on and work on them at home, maybe consider private lessons to work on these things. Lastly, if you have to confront the coach, please keep that away from the public and especially keep it away from your bb. The last thing you want is a big public drama. All the best!!

Excellent input & appreciate very much. He has had some excellent training on the side. Will continue to train throught the year as he loves his position and passion for the sport. I am not a hater, was just very mislead. Have had many tell me that this is wrong/ unethical. I just wanted unbiased input. Thank you.

FF, a few suggestions to keep in mind going forward and dealing with coaches /signings.

-Most of the coaches, none of the good ones, do not intentionally lie to parents and players. That is the tactic of an insecure coach who feel he needs to use bait and switch to fill the foster. He will never be successful with parents and players who do not trust or respect him.

- Smart coaches do not promise positions, captainships or playing time at or before signing. They may say I can see Johnny most likely starting at X, Y or Z if he keeps working hard. Athletes at all points of their careers whether it is youth, high school, college or pro have slumps and spurts. To make such promises can make the designated starters complacent and the subs not motivated to try and fight for the start as it has already been promised to others. Making promises like this, especially before signing, is a huge red flag.

- Captains should always be announced to the team first. No player that is working his butt off hoping to get it wants to hear who got it from another player. Captains should be the best leaders. The best players are many times not not the best leaders. Many parents don't get this at all. There is no way to know who the best leaders will be before the signing. It normally is announced after some games and tournaments but before league play. There may be a returning captain that is the obvious choice but even then the announcement should wait. By then it will already be apparent who the captain is by that player's actions.

All of these things are red flags. In my book all three are the 3 strikes needed to be out. Tough out the season but move on next year to a coach with common sense and integrity.

okay this may be the coaches fault for promising but it is also the parents fault for asking. You get what you work for. Not some behind the scenes getting promises from the coach. Think of it from the other perspective. A kid comes in out works and out plays that kid but can't get on the field because there was secret contract between the coach and parents. It's the definition of politics and a big problem in NTX. All the parents want to go out and get something from the coach (playtime. positions, etc) instead of having the kid work for it himself.

go99 wrote:okay this may be the coaches fault for promising but it is also the parents fault for asking.  You get what you work for.  Not some behind the scenes getting promises from the coach.  Think of it from the other perspective.  A kid comes in out works and out plays that kid but can't get on the field because there was secret contract between the coach and parents.  It's the definition of politics and a big problem in NTX.  All the parents want to go out and get something from the coach (playtime. positions, etc) instead of having the kid work for it himself.

Sounds like the prospect/customer syndrome. I know we don't except it from these NTX "coaches." However, once you have signed and you are a customer; then all bets are off. Sorry to read that you are experiencing this.

Is this a Big 4 club or a small indie? There are some different options, and ways to get out of those contracts.

When you get recruited to join a team coached by someone that believes in recruiting to improve his team, it should come as no surprise when he recruits someone to replace you (assuming he can find someone better), whether that happens a day, a week, a month, or a season later, it's very likely to happen at some point and acting surprised is disingenuous.

Sad but true.

Feel bad for the son of the OP.

What happened to the Academy team the bb played with last season?  Were you dissatisfied with that team/coach, did that team disband, were they not ranked highly enough, were you not invited to sign a contract, was there some other problem to spur you leaving?  Seems odd to jump ship at the last second after several years of academy where the structure (no contracts) allows kids/parents and teams to find a good fit with no pressure (at least in theory) only to then sign a contract which locks you in for a year with little to no recourse with an unproven team/coach.

[quote="DragonStryker"]When you get recruited to join a team coached by someone that believes in recruiting to improve his team, it should come as no surprise when he recruits someone to replace you (assuming he can find someone better), whether that happens a day, a week, a month, or a season later, it's very likely to happen at some point and acting surprised is disingenuous.quote]
Throwing the concept of player development out the window and trying to look like a great coach to disinformed parents by winning at all cost. The question is how does the parent find out before he/she signs the contract about this type of coach. Not entirely clear and parents on the team will not always tell you. Would be nice to have exit interviews with former parents looking for red flags but not always possible.

Real Barcelona wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:When you get recruited to join a team coached by someone that believes in recruiting to improve his team, it should come as no surprise when he recruits someone to replace you (assuming he can find someone better), whether that happens a day, a week, a month, or a season later, it's very likely to happen at some point and acting surprised is disingenuous.quote]
Throwing the concept of player development out the window and trying to look like a great coach to disinformed parents by winning at all cost. The question is how does the parent find out before he/she signs the contract about this type of coach. Not entirely clear and parents on the team will not always tell you. Would be nice to have exit interviews with former parents looking for red flags but not always possible.

I agree, it's tough.  That's why I was asking why they left their former Academy team.  Seems that would have been a known commodity versus the unknown that this new coach/team turned out to be. 

Sadly, it is definitely buyer beware in NTX soccer.  Lots of good coaches in the area, but more than our fair share of liars, cheats, and bad role models.

Moving forward it would be great if we could have a Craig (Angie's) list of coaches so parents could have a better idea of what they are getting into. I would start with at least 2 big buckets:
1. Coaches that develop players
2. Coaches that recruit all stars to win championships, tournaments etc

RB - I was hoping that www.ratemysoccercoach.com would fill that need but sadly it became clear early on that people could post multiple times and did so to either say the coach was great or terrible.  I also found that from an administrative basis they would not move coaches from team to team etc.  Sadly it became a terrible tool to use with credibility.