What happened to the coach of Samba FC 02B Gold?

SailorMoon wrote:

murito wrote:

Seinfeld4 wrote:I witnessed a game last year.  Team started with 9 players.  A few minutes after kickoff a handfull of players come running up.  All with backpacks of different teams.  All backpacks different than the team they were suiting up to play for.    

A roster check was requested.  Referee told the Team Manager "teams don't cheat in classic league".  

Pre-game Roster check (Name, Picture and Player Number) is done before the start of the game. If a player is not present during the roster check, upon arrival he must go to the CL office (next to the concessions store) and get a play clearance there… does this happens? No, most parents do not know this, and they go directly to the game since they are late   already.

Even if they do, how would the ref know that a late boy was already ok’ed to play by the CL officers? No one has been able to tell..

So, if you have a boy that you do not want to be checked, because he is not in the roster, or has a red card or whatever reason, just ask him to show up late. My point is that there will always be a way to cheat, if you want to. So, whenever a Coach is caught being dishonest he and his manager, must be suspended from CL to send a clear message that this is not tolerated by CL.

I just noticed the change in coaches and said GOOD.  I know I appreciate Mason getting rid of a cheating coach.  Although I don't know how he couldn't have heard of his reputation of cheating, seems everyone did.  The kid was obviously older and injured a few players along his cheating path.

I don't understand how or why you would want to play your awesome kid 2 years down.  Big fish in a little pond maybe?? No idea.  I do feel bad for the other players - but again, you would think they'd have some clue.  

I had no idea though, until I had to field marshall recently, that a late player had to check in at the office.  Had no idea at all and I have a BB in college that played and never heard this rule.  If a player checks in late on the sideline  - field marshall is supposed to call board member on duty and they come over and check them in.  

I do think they should ask random questions of the players, birthdate is a good one.  We once played a team cheating in a tourney, ref asked the kids their names, of course they knew what name to say, but birthdate, uh ummm uh ummm, January something?  That got them right off the field and out of the tourney.  

I hope Classic League forfeits the games that the kid played in - was it all of them?  That will make things interesting.

Better question - is this kid going to be on the field tomorrow???

Although I cannot comment on what I have seen directly in the ongoing investigation, I can say that as of 11/02/13 no players have stepped on the pitch that I have not personally inspected an original bc. Please keep in mind that the team came to Samba in tact. We did check with local entities and those bodies did not give anything less than a sparkling recommendation for Coach Rodriguez. We are cooperating with CCSAI in every possible way and will continue to do so as this matter moves to NTSSA. It is extremely unfortunate that any child be put in this situation. I believe these children do this under the advise of adults and although I agree that the player must be punished we remain hopeful that the brunt of the blow will be rendered to the adults that were involved in any way. We at Samba staunchly defend the NTSSA and CCSAI rules and regulations and therefore again offer our most humble apologies to anyone who has been affected by this situation in any fashion. Please be patient as we review ALL players from the team in question so that we can see exactly how far reaching this situation has gone. It remains our goal to eradicate this type of behavior not only from our club from North Texas Soccer.

Sincerely,

B.T. Mason

The brunt of the blow should go to both the child and parents.

Punish the parent with what? A 1/2 season sideline ban? Nope. They'll be there. Who will watch out for them?
$150-$300 fine? They have already proven that they're nuts. They'll just pay the fine and laugh about it.

But, ban that kid for a year or 2 and that'll scare the living crap out of them. And it will also send a message to all other cheaters that NTX is really serious about this nonsense.

If the kid's really passionate about the game, I bet he will have second thoughts about "Mom and Dad" having him to lie about his age so that he can beat up on younger kids.

cowpukesfan wrote:The brunt of the blow should go to both the child and parents.

Punish the parent with what? A 1/2 season sideline ban? Nope. They'll be there. Who will watch out for them?
$150-$300 fine? They have already proven that they're nuts. They'll just pay the fine and laugh about it.

But, ban that kid for a year or 2 and that'll scare the living crap out of them. And it will also send a message to all other cheaters that NTX is really serious about this nonsense.

If the kid's really passionate about the game, I bet he will have second thoughts about "Mom and Dad" having him to lie about his age so that he can beat up on younger kids.

Punishment should go to the club first. Team loses classic spot and has to go back through the whole qualifying process again.
Like I said prior, this will hold club responsible for who they hire, it will hold coach responsible for who they sign, and will hold team mgr responsible for triple checking bc's. They will be held responsible to all the other kids on team who are doing it legit, and the other teams that are doing it legit. Take away the full accomplishment is the only deterrent.

[quote="tpitty"][quote="cowpukesfan"]The brunt of the blow should go to both the child and parents.

Punish the parent with what? A 1/2 season sideline ban? Nope. They'll be there. Who will watch out for them?
$150-$300 fine? They have already proven that they're nuts. They'll just pay the fine and laugh about it.

But, ban that kid for a year or 2 and that'll scare the living crap out of them. And it will also send a message to all other cheaters that NTX is really serious about this nonsense.

If the kid's really passionate about the game, I bet he will have second thoughts about "Mom and Dad" having him to lie about his age so that he can beat up on younger kids.[/quote]Punishment should go to the club first. Team loses classic spot and has to go back through the whole qualifying process again.
Like I said prior, this will hold club responsible for who they hire, it will hold coach responsible for who they sign, and will hold team mgr responsible for triple checking bc's. They will be held responsible to all the other kids on team who are doing it legit, and the other teams that are doing it legit. Take away the full accomplishment is the only deterrent.[/quote]
 
 
I understand what you're saying sir. But the rest of the kids, who are being punished along with this cheating family and coach, are the ones that are paying the price.

Although this old child may have made a difference in some games, I think that these other children may have worked very hard to ensure a victory.

I hope there's another alternative other than punishing these other youngsters.

cowpukesfan wrote:

tpitty wrote:

cowpukesfan wrote:The brunt of the blow should go to both the child and parents.

Punish the parent with what? A 1/2 season sideline ban? Nope. They'll be there. Who will watch out for them?
$150-$300 fine? They have already proven that they're nuts. They'll just pay the fine and laugh about it.

But, ban that kid for a year or 2 and that'll scare the living crap out of them. And it will also send a message to all other cheaters that NTX is really serious about this nonsense.

If the kid's really passionate about the game, I bet he will have second thoughts about "Mom and Dad" having him to lie about his age so that he can beat up on younger kids.

Punishment should go to the club first. Team loses classic spot and has to go back through the whole qualifying process again.
Like I said prior, this will hold club responsible for who they hire, it will hold coach responsible for who they sign, and will hold team mgr responsible for triple checking bc's. They will be held responsible to all the other kids on team who are doing it legit, and the other teams that are doing it legit. Take away the full accomplishment is the only deterrent.

 

 
I understand what you're saying sir. But the rest of the kids, who are being punished along with this cheating family and coach, are the ones that are paying the price.

Although this old child may have made a difference in some games, I think that these other children may have worked very hard to ensure a victory.

I hope there's another alternative other than punishing these other youngsters.

They you really dont understand what I am saying. If you want to curb cheating start with the club. You want to punish the club, take the spot. The kids and parents that are presumed innocent, will have to start over, and you know what, that stinks, but that is the deterrent. Plus, most will leave after the season and be picked up on another team, or stick together and work their way right back into D3 the next season. See the group that left Forzi's team..they started over and are doing just fine. Coaches are easily replaceable by clubs, but positioning is not.

Hey Forzi is doing just fine too! He cheated and the league didn't do anything to him or his Club.

But yet these clubs and coaches continue to exist. I say punish everyone deeply enough so that anyone with a "hint" of foul play immediately brings it to the table. My vote goes to banning the entire club for 1 year of league play and a 10k fine per team caught cheating.

manufan20 wrote:Hey Forzi is doing just fine too! He cheated and the league didn't do anything to him or his Club.

Explain that one

Hey was playing with a player that was too old also. He was the guardian of this player and he said that the forged birth certificate was what was provided to him and that he didn't know the player was too old.

rdeal486 wrote:But yet these clubs and coaches continue to exist.  I say punish everyone deeply enough so that anyone with a "hint" of foul play immediately brings it to the table.  My vote goes to banning the entire club for 1 year of league play and a 10k fine per team caught cheating.

Did you think this point out at all?

rdeal486 wrote:But yet these clubs and coaches continue to exist.  I say punish everyone deeply enough so that anyone with a "hint" of foul play immediately brings it to the table.  My vote goes to banning the entire club for 1 year of league play and a 10k fine per team caught cheating.

Wow. Guilty until proven innocent? Throw the book at them? I hope you never get into a position where you need a judge and jury. They'll investigate it. Let them find the wrongdoing. Maybe they should be uninvited to classic league and forfeit their wins? Not for me to decide. $10k? That's harsh and overbearing and could even be enough to close a small independent club. As for Forzi, league did what they thought was right, parents that moved did too. Case closed.

With the Forzi deal its the same as this case. He used a player that was too old and got caught! Maybe he knew maybe he didn't I don't know. The same could be said for the Samba coach. Maybe he knew maybe he didn't. So they should just let this go just like they did Forzi's deal then.

manufan20 wrote:With the Forzi deal its the same as this case. He used a player that was too old and got caught! Maybe he knew maybe he didn't I don't know. The same could be said for the Samba coach. Maybe he knew maybe he didn't. So they should just let this go just like they did Forzi's deal then.

My comparison to Forzi's group was only that kids split from the team and are doing just fine. Starting over and requalifying ins't an awful thing. If Classic does what they think is best and lets this one go as well, then so be it. However, that type of non action will definitely not deter anyone from doing it in the future.

BTMason seems nice enough, its a bad situation to be in, however cheating is becoming ok these days, and I personally would just would like to see it handled with in a manner that reinforces those clubs/teams that are doing it the right way.

I understand what you're saying tpitty. Hopefully BTMason will release the kids that request it and let them move on. Maybe they will be able to qualify with another team or join one that's already in classic next year. That Samba team has some talented players on it. We will see what happens with this deal and see what the league does. I just don't see how you could just let one case of cheating go and then maybe drop the hammer on the next guy for doing it. Cheating is cheating whether the coaches knew or not!

BTMason wrote:

rdeal486 wrote:But yet these clubs and coaches continue to exist.  I say punish everyone deeply enough so that anyone with a "hint" of foul play immediately brings it to the table.  My vote goes to banning the entire club for 1 year of league play and a 10k fine per team caught cheating.

Did you think this point out at all?

Yes I did, get caught cheating and pay the piper.

epicgoodsport wrote:

rdeal486 wrote:But yet these clubs and coaches continue to exist.  I say punish everyone deeply enough so that anyone with a "hint" of foul play immediately brings it to the table.  My vote goes to banning the entire club for 1 year of league play and a 10k fine per team caught cheating.

Wow.  Guilty until proven innocent?  Throw the book at them?  I hope you never get into a position where you need a judge and jury.  They'll investigate it.  Let them find the wrongdoing.  Maybe they should be uninvited to classic league and forfeit their wins?  Not for me to decide.  $10k?  That's harsh and overbearing and could even be enough to close a small independent club.  As for Forzi, league did what they thought was right, parents that moved did too.  Case closed.

No one said "trial without a jury".

But rdeal486 you will have to wait and see what the league decides. Whether you case of cheating was ok or not ok. If it was not then you pay the piper.

BTMason wrote:

SailorMoon wrote:

murito wrote:

Seinfeld4 wrote:I witnessed a game last year.  Team started with 9 players.  A few minutes after kickoff a handfull of players come running up.  All with backpacks of different teams.  All backpacks different than the team they were suiting up to play for.    

A roster check was requested.  Referee told the Team Manager "teams don't cheat in classic league".  

Pre-game Roster check (Name, Picture and Player Number) is done before the start of the game. If a player is not present during the roster check, upon arrival he must go to the CL office (next to the concessions store) and get a play clearance there… does this happens? No, most parents do not know this, and they go directly to the game since they are late   already.

Even if they do, how would the ref know that a late boy was already ok’ed to play by the CL officers? No one has been able to tell..

So, if you have a boy that you do not want to be checked, because he is not in the roster, or has a red card or whatever reason, just ask him to show up late. My point is that there will always be a way to cheat, if you want to. So, whenever a Coach is caught being dishonest he and his manager, must be suspended from CL to send a clear message that this is not tolerated by CL.

I just noticed the change in coaches and said GOOD.  I know I appreciate Mason getting rid of a cheating coach.  Although I don't know how he couldn't have heard of his reputation of cheating, seems everyone did.  The kid was obviously older and injured a few players along his cheating path.

I don't understand how or why you would want to play your awesome kid 2 years down.  Big fish in a little pond maybe?? No idea.  I do feel bad for the other players - but again, you would think they'd have some clue.  

I had no idea though, until I had to field marshall recently, that a late player had to check in at the office.  Had no idea at all and I have a BB in college that played and never heard this rule.  If a player checks in late on the sideline  - field marshall is supposed to call board member on duty and they come over and check them in.  

I do think they should ask random questions of the players, birthdate is a good one.  We once played a team cheating in a tourney, ref asked the kids their names, of course they knew what name to say, but birthdate, uh ummm uh ummm, January something?  That got them right off the field and out of the tourney.  

I hope Classic League forfeits the games that the kid played in - was it all of them?  That will make things interesting.

Better question - is this kid going to be on the field tomorrow???

Although I cannot comment on what I have seen directly in the ongoing investigation, I can say that as of 11/02/13 no players have stepped on the pitch that I have not personally inspected an original bc. Please keep in mind that the team came to Samba in tact. We did check with local entities and those bodies did not give anything less than a sparkling recommendation for Coach Rodriguez. We are cooperating with CCSAI in every possible way and will continue to do so as this matter moves to NTSSA. It is extremely unfortunate that any child be put in this situation. I believe these children do this under the advise of adults and although I agree that the player must be punished we remain hopeful that the brunt of the blow will be rendered to the adults that were involved in any way. We at Samba staunchly defend the NTSSA and CCSAI rules and regulations and therefore again offer our most humble apologies to anyone who has been affected by this situation in any fashion. Please be patient as we review ALL players from the team in question so that we can see exactly how far reaching this situation has gone. It remains our goal to eradicate this type of behavior not only from our club from North Texas Soccer.

Sincerely,

B.T. Mason

You stated that that you changed your due diligence process after one your teams got caught cheating to reviewing the original BCs yourself. What punishment could have been added to the classic rules that would have caused you to institute increased due diligence prior to the team being caught? The risk right now is too low for teams/coaches/DOCs, it seems. 2/2 teams are keeping their classic spots, 1/2 coaches keep their spots. 2/2 DOCs avoid punishment.

manufan20 wrote:But rdeal486 you will have to wait and see what the league decides. Whether you case of cheating was ok or not ok. If it was not then you pay the piper.

I agree. Apparently, cheating is "okay" if you:

1. Claim that you did not know (aka, Sgt. Schultz defense); or
2. Claim that it wasn't you (aka, Shaggy defense).

rdeal486 wrote:

epicgoodsport wrote:

rdeal486 wrote:But yet these clubs and coaches continue to exist.  I say punish everyone deeply enough so that anyone with a "hint" of foul play immediately brings it to the table.  My vote goes to banning the entire club for 1 year of league play and a 10k fine per team caught cheating.

Wow.  Guilty until proven innocent?  Throw the book at them?  I hope you never get into a position where you need a judge and jury.  They'll investigate it.  Let them find the wrongdoing.  Maybe they should be uninvited to classic league and forfeit their wins?  Not for me to decide.  $10k?  That's harsh and overbearing and could even be enough to close a small independent club.  As for Forzi, league did what they thought was right, parents that moved did too.  Case closed.

No one said "trial without a jury".

I suspect you are part of a Team where a cheating Team has had an impact on your Team in a negative way? I feel for you, because it sucks. If you were to do a search on this forum regarding threads about Teams or Coaches who have cheated in the past; you would learn that this is not the first time this topic has come up. The sad news is, the Classic League People really don't want to "open this can of worms." They would prefer that it be "swept under a rug." The rules are only meant to keep the honest people honest. There is a similar situation that took place quite recently in the '99 D3 group. From what I understand, protests were made. Does anyone know what came of that? If so, please share.

[/quote]I suspect you are part of a Team where a cheating Team has had an impact on your Team in a negative way?  I feel for you, because it sucks.  If you were to do a search on this forum regarding threads about Teams or Coaches who have cheated in the past; you would learn that this is not the first time this topic has come up.  The sad news is, the Classic League People really don't want to "open this can of worms."  They would prefer that it be "swept under a rug."  The rules are only meant to keep the honest people honest.  There is a similar situation that took place quite recently in the '99 D3 group.  From what I understand, protests were made.  Does anyone know what came of that?  If so, please share.     [/quote]
Me? No. No cheating that I know of anyway. I have seen plenty of cheating going on but suggesting fines of $10k is pretty heavy handed.

cowpukesfan wrote:The brunt of the blow should go to both the child and parents.

Punish the parent with what? A 1/2 season sideline ban? Nope. They'll be there. Who will watch out for them?
$150-$300 fine? They have already proven that they're nuts. They'll just pay the fine and laugh about it.

But, ban that kid for a year or 2 and that'll scare the living crap out of them. And it will also send a message to all other cheaters that NTX is really serious about this nonsense.

If the kid's really passionate about the game, I bet he will have second thoughts about "Mom and Dad" having him to lie about his age so that he can beat up on younger kids.

I agree. Hit the kid hard and parents. I mean really, I don't understand what kid would want to play on a team that's 2 years younger than him. Would your son/daughter?? Mine wouldn't and nor would I allow it. It would be embarassing. If you can't play/keep up with kids your own age, then play rec.

Obviously, the club will have to be punished. But the kid/parents need to be hit harder and they will think twice about it next time.

And the coach, don't forget these coaches that think (and apparently are) untouchable!

Even if you ban the player for a year or two there are other leagues for them to play in. They will just play in these other leagues during their ban and then come back. Plus the parents will save themselves alot of money by not paying Club fees and other fees they would have to pay to CL.

People who have the gall to manufacture identities will do it again - it is a way of life.

Especially if there are no repercussions for doing so!