Classic League Bye?

why have bye's

I favor a bye system but not in it's current state. I believe that if a team cannot carry N+1 regardless of division then they have to fight for a CL slot through the tournament. This will give a nod to the teams / coaches that keep a bit of normalcy in their roster / perform. From an execution perspective you drop the two bottom and promote the two top and then shuffle up for any team that does not keep N+1. D3 could potentially have 10 teams to qualify but that isn't an issue. Heck, there could be some from the Challenge Tournament going into D2 (Unlikely but possible I guess). Who cares again.

If the above is executed then the Challenge Tournament would need to be after signing (as it should be). The team in the Tournament would be the ones playing for the year.

I also favor byes but the current system too far beyond what I think is reasonable.

I do not think a club should ever own a bye. I understand the initial argument behind why that stipulation was put into place but what it has become in reality is not good. If a club can’t keep a group of customers happy, why should they be rewarded for that?

Also with the current system, far too much weight is given to the teams' very first QT. A bad QT can punish a good team for years or just kill that team within a year.

bigtex75081 wrote:I also favor byes but the current system too far beyond what I think is reasonable.  

I do not think a club should ever own a bye.  I understand the initial argument behind why that stipulation was put into place but what it has become in reality is not good.  If a club can’t keep a group of customers happy, why should they be rewarded for that?

Also with the current system, far too much weight is given to the teams' very first QT.  A bad QT can punish a good team for years or just kill that team within a year.

@bigtex... i must admit i don't even understand the "initial argument" for byes. but as you say too much weight is given to a QT for 10 year old babies. the reason teams don't stay together, in addition to politics, etc. is that these boys are maturing and the star of the team last year (18 months ago) is mediocre at best and a 10 year old that didn't make the team 2 years ago is the star and thus being recruited by the same team he couldn't make earlier. there has to be an exception for an indie team that overnight through merger, etc becomes a top tier team.

Why even have a league?? Is a trophy so important that we'd rather worry about setting a league up? This is why the US is so behind in soccer compared to the world. It's all about winning that U14 trophy instead of developing players.

Most other countries hardly even play games in the youth ranks. Heck, the EPL didn't even have a Youth Premier League till the 2012/2013 season, and that's only for U18!

I mean it's $650 per team to just attempt to Qualify! That doesn't even include if you actually do qualify for the league!

Why not just get the training the players need to become better soccer players, and if a team wants to play a game the coaches can find another team to play a game against every now and then. Going to such lengths just so that a U11 player can get a trophy is ridiculous. Let's worry about making sure the players are actually learning the skills they need to play a game instead of winning a league this young.

NTXSjunkie wrote:Why even have a league?? Is a trophy so important that we'd rather worry about setting a league up? This is why the US is so behind in soccer compared to the world. It's all about winning that U14 trophy instead of developing players.

Most other countries hardly even play games in the youth ranks. Heck, the EPL didn't even have a Youth Premier League till the 2012/2013 season, and that's only for U18!

I mean it's $650 per team to just attempt to Qualify! That doesn't even include if you actually do qualify for the league!

Why not just get the training the players need to become better soccer players, and if a team wants to play a game the coaches can find another team to play a game against every now and then. Going to such lengths just so that a U11 player can get a trophy is ridiculous. Let's worry about making sure the players are actually learning the skills they need to play a game instead of winning a league this young.

Then how does the Gothia Cup get 1600 teams from 80 diffrent countries? Is that one of the few times they play games?

NTXSjunkie wrote:Why even have a league?? Is a trophy so important that we'd rather worry about setting a league up? This is why the US is so behind in soccer compared to the world. It's all about winning that U14 trophy instead of developing players.

Most other countries hardly even play games in the youth ranks. Heck, the EPL didn't even have a Youth Premier League till the 2012/2013 season, and that's only for U18!

I mean it's $650 per team to just attempt to Qualify! That doesn't even include if you actually do qualify for the league!

Why not just get the training the players need to become better soccer players, and if a team wants to play a game the coaches can find another team to play a game against every now and then. Going to such lengths just so that a U11 player can get a trophy is ridiculous. Let's worry about making sure the players are actually learning the skills they need to play a game instead of winning a league this young.

i personally make sure my son gets those touches and that training separate from what a coach can show him a dew hours a week. you can do both! train and compete. the $650 is just another tournament fee whether you qualify or not

my2cents wrote:

NTXSjunkie wrote:Why even have a league?? Is a trophy so important that we'd rather worry about setting a league up? This is why the US is so behind in soccer compared to the world. It's all about winning that U14 trophy instead of developing players.

Most other countries hardly even play games in the youth ranks. Heck, the EPL didn't even have a Youth Premier League till the 2012/2013 season, and that's only for U18!

I mean it's $650 per team to just attempt to Qualify! That doesn't even include if you actually do qualify for the league!

Why not just get the training the players need to become better soccer players, and if a team wants to play a game the coaches can find another team to play a game against every now and then. Going to such lengths just so that a U11 player can get a trophy is ridiculous. Let's worry about making sure the players are actually learning the skills they need to play a game instead of winning a league this young.

Then how does the Gothia Cup get 1600 teams from 80 diffrent countries? Is that one of the few times they play games?

Yes. That is one of the few times they play games.

They generally do tournaments and stuff, but it is few and far between. It's because the players know that their goal is to get to the pro's and not to win a trophy at age 12.

Also, look at the health of US players vs other countries. Our players seem to get injured more. I would argue that this is because our youth play to many games. Think about it… football people say that running backs only have so many games in their legs before they are gone. Well, that logic would probably apply to soccer as well.

How many games a year does a soccer player in the US play? Well the season is what 12 games so times by two 24. Then add 3 tournaments at minimum. That adds 3-5 maybe 6 games per tournament so we'll say 15 for a year there. We're up to 39 games… more games than a professional season in most European Leagues. Now add HS soccer once they get there… that's an 19 game season plus playoffs… so now we're up to 58 games without playoffs… plus two tournaments… so add another 10 games… now we're at 68. Some teams play winter indoor as well which is usually 8-10 games with playoffs after so we're up to 78 games.

Add all that plus most clubs, since they're so concerned with winning, practice 4-5 times a week… it's just ridiculous. That sort of wear and tear on bodies that are still developing?! It's no wonder our soccer players get hurt so easily once they make it to the pro's, get burned out young, or once they hit stardom are only in the lime light for a year or two. How quickly did Dempsey fade from stardom in England?

NTXSjunkie wrote:

my2cents wrote:

NTXSjunkie wrote:Why even have a league?? Is a trophy so important that we'd rather worry about setting a league up? This is why the US is so behind in soccer compared to the world. It's all about winning that U14 trophy instead of developing players.

Most other countries hardly even play games in the youth ranks. Heck, the EPL didn't even have a Youth Premier League till the 2012/2013 season, and that's only for U18!

I mean it's $650 per team to just attempt to Qualify! That doesn't even include if you actually do qualify for the league!

Why not just get the training the players need to become better soccer players, and if a team wants to play a game the coaches can find another team to play a game against every now and then. Going to such lengths just so that a U11 player can get a trophy is ridiculous. Let's worry about making sure the players are actually learning the skills they need to play a game instead of winning a league this young.

Then how does the Gothia Cup get 1600 teams from 80 diffrent countries? Is that one of the few times they play games?

Yes. That is one of the few times they play games.

They generally do tournaments and stuff, but it is few and far between. It's because the players know that their goal is to get to the pro's and not to win a trophy at age 12.

Also, look at the health of US players vs other countries. Our players seem to get injured more. I would argue that this is because our youth play to many games. Think about it… football people say that running backs only have so many games in their legs before they are gone. Well, that logic would probably apply to soccer as well.

How many games a year does a soccer player in the US play? Well the season is what 12 games so times by two 24. Then add 3 tournaments at minimum. That adds 3-5 maybe 6 games per tournament so we'll say 15 for a year there. We're up to 39 games… more games than a professional season in most European Leagues. Now add HS soccer once they get there… that's an 19 game season plus playoffs… so now we're up to 58 games without playoffs… plus two tournaments… so add another 10 games… now we're at 68. Some teams play winter indoor as well which is usually 8-10 games with playoffs after so we're up to 78 games.

Add all that plus most clubs, since they're so concerned with winning, practice 4-5 times a week… it's just ridiculous. That sort of wear and tear on bodies that are still developing?! It's no wonder our soccer players get hurt so easily once they make it to the pro's, get burned out young, or once they hit stardom are only in the lime light for a year or two. How quickly did Dempsey fade from stardom in England?

i submit that the foreign players you elude to DO PLAY MANY GAMES. by definition "game" can be fun not work. regardless of whether or not its called a game or scrimmage or kick around, players of the world are playing every day. my son gets more exercise in the kick arounds with his friends (and more touches) than he does in a match. the diff is if you have 11 elite players training against 11 elite players they get better. in ntx you have 7-12 good players and 6 or so weaker players that don't demand enough from stars in a practice setting.