The Choice Is Yours, High School or Academy?

There's many paths to soccer greatness but in the US one of the biggest questions is high school soccer or academy? This article does a great job comparing the two and giving insight into both choices

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/high-school-soccer-article/hs-da-split-still-a-work-in-progress_aid32380

I agree that most DA players would also play HS if they could because of the social aspect of the experience. For many, there is less pressure and they have more fun.

There's nothing quite like the feeling of putting on your own letterman's jacket. There's a lot of pride in playing for your club, but nothing in club offers that sense of pride.

soccershins wrote:There's many paths to soccer greatness but in the US one of the biggest questions is high school soccer or academy? This article does a great job comparing the two and giving insight into both choices

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/high-school-soccer-article/hs-da-split-still-a-work-in-progress_aid32380

Why choose? My BB played in a HS tournament this week and while watching the game before theirs witnessed a DT Academy player, play for his high school team. They were losing, put him in to win the game. Maybe it's ok to play tournaments and not district games?

D143 wrote:

soccershins wrote:There's many paths to soccer greatness but in the US one of the biggest questions is high school soccer or academy? This article does a great job comparing the two and giving insight into both choices

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/high-school-soccer-article/hs-da-split-still-a-work-in-progress_aid32380

Why choose?  My BB played in a HS tournament this week and while watching the game before theirs witnessed a DT Academy player, play for his high school team.  They were losing, put him in to win the game.  Maybe it's ok to play tournaments and not district games?

The academy "rule" not top play HS has nothing to do with the UIL. In fact even the USSF who conducts the academy games won't take any action if a kids plays on another non-academy team. It is up to the DA club team to enforce the rule...(if they care)...Assuming this kid didn't miss an academy game or practice, he could have made an agreement with his club coach to play...or not. Either way no enforced league rule was broken. It is really the 10 month season that prevents academy players from doing both HS and academy...4 academy practice/game during highschool season will cause many conflicts. Then it's up to the HS coach to make light of his practices and bring a player in on the few times he is available to make a difference in the result.

i would pick HS for most kids because most kids even good ones are not going to play college soccer and certainly not pro. enjoy your hs years, get a jacket experience the fun...

One thing to consider about HS is that not all HS programs are made up of "soccer players." For some schools their soccer program is made up of football players and other sport athletes that are doing soccer because 1) It's something to do in the offseason -OR- 2) The HS soccer coach has recruited them to play because they are a good athlete.

This can present a danger to true soccer players because the ones that aren't soccer players often result to playing over aggressively against good players to "level" the playing field. This can cause players to get injured very easily. So, the thing is, is HS soccer worth it to a high level player if they get injured?

Another thing to consider is, for the most part DA players will be the only one on their team at their level. That means realistically a State Championship isn't going to happen. Unless their in an area dominated by Classic League players... like a Plano School... so, if they're in an area that has no chance of winning a state championship, is it worth it?

Not arguing against HS soccer as there are social benefits and as some pointed out pride benefits from getting a jacket, but thought I would point out these things to consider as well.

Coach Kyle, all of your points are valid. But the only reason to play high school is if you are going to win state? Why waste all the time in academy training? Are those kids going to be making the roster at Real Madrid? I think the game and the playing of the game used to be enough...now we have kids donating their childhood for what? Every parent had to cross this chasm, but in the end I fell on the side of love of the game. So many parents chasing the dream to have their kid play in college...but in the end, is it the kids dream or the parents? There are 9.9 scholarships allowed in D1 soccer...so most of the kids playing in college are getting there on academics as much as the ability to play anyway...but I am getting off topic

Let them have fun and do what they want sport wise. I have two letter jackets collecting moths and really no one cares about them but me. Times have changed, kids are not playing multiple sport or for the pure enjoyment. Specialization is the norm to have a chance at varsity. As a parent, I just want them to get good grades and have a passion for anything....There are too many thing to get in trouble with. Sports are great to teach so many thing. The main one is fitness and staying away from negative thing we put in our bodies.

Ok here is the problem here in NTX with the clubs, coaches and parents. That is a flat out lie that it is up to the Club to enforce the rule. USSF does and will enforce the rule. Because a kid decides to be selfish enough to violate well documented rules so that he can do whatever HE likes, he could get not only a ban for himself in the academy but also forfeiture of his AL teams games. So in the quest for what he wants he must also be willing to cost all of his AL friends their hard earned games. Life is full of choices. HS soccer can be a great experience for kids but it is not one that US soccer is interested in. Select soccer is for the vast majority of competitive players and allows you to play HS soccer. The select few who have chosen a different path should go to the AL. The AL is not the "top" league. It is not the "best" league. Just play CL and stop crying about HS soccer. you can't always have everything you want in life. Sometime you have to make a choice. And to let you in on a secret, not everything is about you and what you want.

Just so we are clear for all of those who have been lied to by their coach or club  (Texans)

YOU CANNOT PLAY ANY HIGH SCHOOL GAMES WHATSOEVER FOR ANY REASON. THERE CAN BE A ACADEMY LEAGUE SUSPENSION FOR THE PLAYER, FORFEITURE OF GAMES, AND SANCTIONS AGAINST THE CLUB.

It is monitored and there are punishments. Every High School coach knows the rules and even though there are no punishments to the HS that I know have. When you do it you have just let a shady coach teach your kid a important life lesson. It's okay to cheat and break the rule to get what you want. Good luck with that one

go99 wrote:Ok here is the problem here in NTX with the clubs, coaches and parents.  That is a flat out lie that it is up to the Club to enforce the rule.  USSF does and will enforce the rule.  Because a kid decides to be selfish enough to violate well documented rules so that he can do whatever HE likes, he could get not only a ban for himself in the academy but also forfeiture of his AL teams games.  So in the quest for what he wants he must also be willing to cost all of his AL friends their hard earned games.  Life is full of choices.  HS soccer can be a great experience for kids but it is not one that US soccer is interested in.  Select soccer is for the vast majority of competitive players and allows you to play HS soccer.  The select few who have chosen a different path should go to the AL.  The AL is not the "top" league.  It is not the "best" league.  Just play CL and stop crying about HS soccer. you can't always have everything you want in life.  Sometime you have to make a choice.  And to let you in on a secret, not everything is about you and what you want.

Just so we are clear for all of those who have been lied to by their coach or club  (Texans)

YOU CANNOT PLAY ANY HIGH SCHOOL GAMES WHATSOEVER FOR ANY REASON.  THERE CAN BE A ACADEMY LEAGUE SUSPENSION FOR THE PLAYER, FORFEITURE OF GAMES, AND SANCTIONS AGAINST THE CLUB.

It is monitored and there are punishments.  Every High School coach knows the rules and even though there are no punishments to the HS that I know have.  When you do it you have just let a shady coach teach your kid a important life lesson.  It's okay to cheat and break the rule to get what you want.  Good luck with that one

it happens in classic league all the time just look at all the recent threads!

The Boss wrote:

go99 wrote:Ok here is the problem here in NTX with the clubs, coaches and parents.  That is a flat out lie that it is up to the Club to enforce the rule.  USSF does and will enforce the rule.  Because a kid decides to be selfish enough to violate well documented rules so that he can do whatever HE likes, he could get not only a ban for himself in the academy but also forfeiture of his AL teams games.  So in the quest for what he wants he must also be willing to cost all of his AL friends their hard earned games.  Life is full of choices.  HS soccer can be a great experience for kids but it is not one that US soccer is interested in.  Select soccer is for the vast majority of competitive players and allows you to play HS soccer.  The select few who have chosen a different path should go to the AL.  The AL is not the "top" league.  It is not the "best" league.  Just play CL and stop crying about HS soccer. you can't always have everything you want in life.  Sometime you have to make a choice.  And to let you in on a secret, not everything is about you and what you want.

Just so we are clear for all of those who have been lied to by their coach or club  (Texans)

YOU CANNOT PLAY ANY HIGH SCHOOL GAMES WHATSOEVER FOR ANY REASON.  THERE CAN BE A ACADEMY LEAGUE SUSPENSION FOR THE PLAYER, FORFEITURE OF GAMES, AND SANCTIONS AGAINST THE CLUB.

It is monitored and there are punishments.  Every High School coach knows the rules and even though there are no punishments to the HS that I know have.  When you do it you have just let a shady coach teach your kid a important life lesson.  It's okay to cheat and break the rule to get what you want.  Good luck with that one

it happens in classic league all the time just look at all the recent threads!

yep it does. And not only takes a bad coach but a parent as well

go99 wrote:Ok here is the problem here in NTX with the clubs, coaches and parents.  That is a flat out lie that it is up to the Club to enforce the rule.  USSF does and will enforce the rule.  Because a kid decides to be selfish enough to violate well documented rules so that he can do whatever HE likes, he could get not only a ban for himself in the academy but also forfeiture of his AL teams games.  So in the quest for what he wants he must also be willing to cost all of his AL friends their hard earned games.  Life is full of choices.  HS soccer can be a great experience for kids but it is not one that US soccer is interested in.  Select soccer is for the vast majority of competitive players and allows you to play HS soccer.  The select few who have chosen a different path should go to the AL.  The AL is not the "top" league.  It is not the "best" league.  Just play CL and stop crying about HS soccer. you can't always have everything you want in life.  Sometime you have to make a choice.  And to let you in on a secret, not everything is about you and what you want.

Just so we are clear for all of those who have been lied to by their coach or club  (Texans)

YOU CANNOT PLAY ANY HIGH SCHOOL GAMES WHATSOEVER FOR ANY REASON.  THERE CAN BE A ACADEMY LEAGUE SUSPENSION FOR THE PLAYER, FORFEITURE OF GAMES, AND SANCTIONS AGAINST THE CLUB.

It is monitored and there are punishments.  Every High School coach knows the rules and even though there are no punishments to the HS that I know have.  When you do it you have just let a shady coach teach your kid a important life lesson.  It's okay to cheat and break the rule to get what you want.  Good luck with that one

Or maybe the player did the same as academy players from the last two years have done. They secured their college commitment in the fall academy season and then quit academy to play their senior year of high school.    

If that is the case then he is not an Academy player (the academy is not a lifetime appointment FYI if you are a designated player you are not an academy player).  He is just a high school player.  So you can if and or but all day but the fact remains that you must make a choice.  I know it's difficult in this age of over indulged children and their enabler parents.  But you cannot give your kids everything

Besides there is nothing wrong with accomplishing what you wanted (college commitment) and then taking the year off to have some fun (sucks for the kid who worked really hard for 3 year and dedicated himself to the team only to lose his spot senior year to Mr Fancy Pants, look at me I already got a college spot academy player but hey F that guy) The academy isn't speaking too you anyway so might as well clear some room.

The Academy was done by US soccer for the sole purpose of creating a better national team. It was not for kids and parents to say hey I am better than select. It wasn't even created to boost a kids chance to college (thats part of the honey). It was created for a focused, dedicated player, who says I want to make it to the national team one day. Most will fail and move on to plan B and college but plan A from US soccer was to make a future national team that can compete with the rest of the world. There are waaay too many Academy teams (most areas should only have 1, large area like NTX maybe 2) There are waaay too many kids in academy. Select should be the defacto place for the majority of players and so should high school. Oh and the ugly little sister Pre academy should just go away

go99 wrote:If that is the case then he is not an Academy player (the academy is not a lifetime appointment FYI if you are a designated player you are not an academy player).  He is just a high school player.  So you can if and or but all day but the fact remains that you must make a choice.  I know it's difficult in this age of over indulged children and their enabler parents.  But you cannot give your kids everything

Really?  Maybe I should have thought of that.   Can you return a unicorn without a receipt?

Go, I don't disagree there are too many kids playing DA/PA or even Select, for that matter. I would even extend the argument down into the little ones to say there are way too many kids playing Academy.

The problem with shimming the DA system down to just 2 teams per age group is politics/favoritism/nepotism.

DA doesn't hold the keys to the national team, and it shouldn't. It's in the best interest of the sport to have multiple ways to the USMNT. Putting all the power into the hands of the clubs is a bad idea for the reasons listed above.

Imagine the influential dad coach (there are several in NTX) who could/would build a dream team around his kid and a few chosen players from childhood to ID selection to DA and beyond.

we have all of the politics Etc now so limiting the clubs won't change that. But limiting the teams and placing more restrictions and increasing the work could limit it. Also US soccer using scouts to place players could limit it. And then also completely remove money from the equation. Up the training (FCD is doing it right with 5) and reduce the number of games while removing championships all together. Basically look to an Ajax/barca type academy system (but kids staying at home. Have the players be US academy players (under the stewardship of FCD etc). When there are no laughs and giggles or hey look at me. There is nothing left but hard work to achieve a possible long term goal. You may find that those without that goal in mind find it not worth the trouble and eliminate many politicians.

True, but limiting the options to just a couple of choices reeks of potential systematic manipulation.

Single option choices are never good. Two option choices are only slightly better than one in many cases. In situations where there are 3 options (or more), the consumer has the advantage.

I generally show concern when someone is selling the benefits of fewer options.

This is interesting. I see both sides.

Disclaimer: DA is NOT an option for my son due to logistics.

level of play in HS is generally much lower than any form of club ball...and I'm including DA when I say 'club'.

That said, there is developmental value in playing for your school.

On the other hand, while the level of training/coaching with DA is reputedly better (and probably is) we have to look at the landscape of American soccer.

With the exception of a few gifted "man children" at MLS academies, the DA is not a direct path to the pro game. it provides better exposure to the college game. And college soccer for 99.9% of the players is still pay-to-play. Players aren't recruited, they "market themselves" to college coaches. From talking to players and parents, college coaches rarely give out any athletic money...and when they do it is for the top few impact players on a given team. Just the way it is.

Second, if it was really about developing players, it would be completely free. (FCD being the exception..but that comes with strings as well.)

Third, everywhere else in the world the top 16-18 year olds begin training with and competing against older, better players...in some cases first team pros. That, by and large doesn't happen here.

Now, that said, if the option was available to my son, I'm quite certain that DA would be his choice.

Most players going to college are going to choose their college playing options based on cost and academics. I'm not going to accept getting say, 10-15 grand a year in scholarship $$ and be expected to pay the other 15-20 grand out of pocket.

Plenty of PDL rosters that have D2, D3, NAIA and juco players. And PDL sharpens players more for a higher level than college soccer alone does.

finish1 wrote:True, but limiting the options to just a couple of choices reeks of potential systematic manipulation.

Single option choices are never good. Two option choices are only slightly better than one in many cases. In situations where there are 3 options (or more), the consumer has the advantage.

I generally show concern when someone is selling the benefits of fewer options.

Ah I see where we are off. Consumer choice. Yes I agree you should have the choice to buy whatever development path you choose. There should be plenty of choices and the more the better. However US development should not be one of those "choices" It should be a "this is our (us) philosophy, our development model. A sit down with parents and kid about the potential and what it take to get there and find out if the kid and family is willing to make the sacrifices. But it should be a system (free) that you are invited into and you can choose to take it or leave it. As long as WE are the consumer they system will always be corrupt because often a big part of the problem is us.

Nothing is free.

Let's not get caught up in the semantics of consumerism. What we are talking about is the pathway to the USMNT. What is being proposed is that only a strict few DA programs be allowed to participate in the selection process.

My argument is that if the pathway is limited to a few clubs, then the potential for manipulation by the clubs (and their coaches) goes up exponentially.

I believe we agree that the ID process is insufficient. Want to make it worse? Limit the opportunities for players.

actually What I am suggesting is not letting the clubs into the ID process at all. The problem with the expansion of the clubs in AL is the AL itself become too big too manage and shifts the balance of the landscape. ie becomes the "top" league that everyone must get into and then of course try to change when it doesn't suit their needs.

I feel that US soccer should ID the talent and have a few clubs stewart the training of those US academy players. Under strict guidlines and supervision teaching whatever is the US vision of soccer. If a club can't follow the training guidlines etc or do a poor job it's as simple as pulling the stewardship of the academy players to another club.

Basically what we have now is a ton of academy clubs loosely controlled all doing and teaching their own thing. Recommendations not being followed, hell hard fast rules being uninforced. Academy league is nothing more than CL+ and from what I have seen so far you can go ahead and erase the plus.

go99 wrote:actually What I am suggesting is not letting the clubs into the ID process at all.  The problem with the expansion of the clubs in AL is the AL itself become too big too manage and shifts the balance of the landscape. ie becomes the "top" league that everyone must get into and then of course try to change when it doesn't suit their needs.

I feel that US soccer should ID the talent and have a few clubs stewart the training of those US academy players.  Under strict guidlines and supervision teaching whatever is the US vision of soccer.  If a club can't follow the training guidlines etc or do a poor job it's as simple as pulling the stewardship of the academy players to another club.

Basically what we have now is a ton of academy clubs loosely controlled all doing and teaching their own thing.  Recommendations not being followed, hell hard fast rules being uninforced. Academy league is nothing more than CL+ and from what I have seen so far you can go ahead and erase the plus.

  

"Just so we are clear for all of those who have been lied to by their coach or club (Texans)

YOU CANNOT PLAY ANY HIGH SCHOOL GAMES WHATSOEVER FOR ANY REASON.  THERE CAN BE A ACADEMY LEAGUE SUSPENSION FOR THE PLAYER, FORFEITURE OF GAMES, AND SANCTIONS AGAINST THE CLUB."

This isn't exactly correct.  If you go to a private school that requires participation in a sport, you can get a waiver.  (Most private schools require participation in at least one sport.)

Mookie, don't mind Go, he likes to pick on the Texans.

I agree PA is CL+/-.  It's the same coaches doing the same thing the same way, complete with nepotism.

I overheard a parent complaining recently and I responded if you don't like it, do something else. If you stay, pay your money and deal with it. Someone else will gladly take your spot. There are lots of pigeons in the coup with tons of cash to burn.