U11 Power 16 (7/20/09)

rip wrote: U11 Power 16 (7/20/09)

1.	Dallas Texans Craft	Training their way to a #1 seed!
2.	Dallas Texans Red South Hernandez	Earned a #1 seed with a solid tourney run in the Spring.
3.	Andromeda Red Bazan	Finally showed up -- and showed up they did.
4.	Solar Red Passos	Hmmm.... a chink in the armor perhaps?
5.	Texas Gunners Maddox	Cinderella? More like Megan Fox!
6.	Comets Blue Badii	Survived the roster shakeup and playing solid.
7.	Solar Crawford	Looks like Sleeping Beauty is beginning to stir.
8.	CD Chivas Dallas Jaquez	Didn't fair as well this time against a deeper field.
9.	FC Dallas Suarez	Is it really better to burnout than to fade away?
10.	Tyler Azzurri Napoli Schubert	Still solid and holding that last QT #1 seed.
11.	FC Dallas South Saavedra	Finally showed they can finish.... at least against lesser competition.
12.	Atletico Madrid Lopez	Curious that they were nowhere to be seen this weekend.
13.	Fort Worth FC White Cates	A dangerous, scrappy team.... but inconsistent.
14.	Liverpool FC Reds Wardrobe	Need to play with the big boys to move up.
15.	Texas Titans Dallas Velez	Handled their business as they should have.
16.	ASG Gold North Ngon	Hanging on and trying to rebuild.
-	Dropped Out	FC Dallas Blue Rhine(9), FC Dallas Gold Figueroa(16)
+	Knocking on the Door	Comets Red Baddii, Club Classic Orange Wilco

Nice analysis...I would prob put Texas Titans a bit higher after watching them play this weekend, maybe 11-13. Barcelona should be somewhere in the top 15, as well. I would also prob still include FCD Gold somewhere in top 15. Weekend tournaments definitely helped Solar Crawford, Gunners, Azurri, and maybe CC Orange; hurt this weekend were FCD Blue, FCD Suarez, ASG Gold North.

13 days and counting until the QT....

socmom3 wrote:
Nice analysis...I would prob put Texas Titans a bit higher after watching them play this weekend, maybe 11-13. Barcelona should be somewhere in the top 15, as well. I would also prob still include FCD Gold somewhere in top 15. Weekend tournaments definitely helped Solar Crawford, Gunners, Azurri, and maybe CC Orange; hurt this weekend were FCD Blue, FCD Suarez, ASG Gold North.

13 days and counting until the QT....

Thanks. I meant to include Barcelona in those "knocking on the door" and have updated the original post.

Velez's team was tough while as FCD Easr, but they didn't challenge themselves this weekend. No free lunches here. You better take care of business just to tread water. We'll see how they fare against stiffer competition soon. Figo's boys are just not ready to compete with the top teams at this point.

The team that surprised in my book (other than Solar Crawford) was Comets Red. They showed very well for a "second-team". I can see them playing in D1 this year.

Have to agree w/ top 6 .After that its day to day, game to game, matchup to matchup. Not alot seperates the rest.

rip wrote: U11 Power 16 (7/20/09)

1.	Dallas Texans Craft	Training their way to a #1 seed!
2.	Dallas Texans Red South Hernandez	Earned a #1 seed with a solid tourney run in the Spring.
3.	Andromeda Red Bazan	Finally showed up -- and showed up they did.
4.	Solar Red Passos	Hmmm.... a chink in the armor perhaps?
5.	Texas Gunners Maddox	Cinderella? More like Megan Fox!
6.	Comets Blue Badii	Survived the roster shakeup and playing solid.
7.	Solar Crawford	Looks like Sleeping Beauty is beginning to stir.
8.	CD Chivas Dallas Jaquez	Didn't fair as well this time against a deeper field.
9.	FC Dallas Suarez	Is it really better to burnout than to fade away?
10.	Tyler Azzurri Napoli Schubert	Still solid and holding that last QT #1 seed.
11.	FC Dallas South Saavedra	Finally showed they can finish.... at least against lesser competition.
12.	Atletico Madrid Lopez	Curious that they were nowhere to be seen this weekend.
13.	Fort Worth FC White Cates	A dangerous, scrappy team.... but inconsistent.
14.	Liverpool FC Reds Wardrobe	Need to play with the big boys to move up.
15.	Texas Titans Dallas Velez	Handled their business as they should have.
16.	ASG Gold North Ngon	Hanging on and trying to rebuild.
+	Knocking on the Door	Barcelona SC Garcia, Comets Red Baddii, Club Classic Orange Wilco
-	Dropped Out	FC Dallas Blue Rhine(9), FC Dallas Gold Figueroa(16)

LOL whoa whoa lot of favortisim and giving alot of credit where maybe it's not do in this line up!
1.DTR/Dynamo-we will just leave them alone
2.DTS-yea they have played alot and have done well against the elite competition
3.Solar Red-always a finalist enough said
4.Andromeda red-i'm only going to move them up cause' of the recent drop off from FCD suarez and copa/blue cause' the competition they had in the tut wasn't any of the "elite" teams? they are going to have to show more then that!
5.Barcelona-the best independent team around and until one of the other teams beat them NOT one should get ranked higher especially since they have been playing against the "elite" teams all season long and have proved themselves
6.FCD(suarez)-not sure whats going on exactly but they are slippin' a little
7.Solar(crawford)-great showing this weekend against some tough competition and great tournament win looks like they added some talent!
8.Tyler azzuri/Tx Gunners- azzuri is a tough scrappy team with alot of speed and talent they just can't beat the "elite" teams,Gunners,well there going to have beat more of the "elite" and seeing that they didn't play any of the top teams this past SDL season and they didn't play against any top level competiton in the tut so we will have to wait and see durin the season?
9.Texas Titans/FCD velez- still a strong team
10.FCD blue(formerly copa)-they have earned a top ten ranking so far but their recent play has really suprised me hope it's just the new coach looking at things before it all count's?
11thru 50 or whatever-it's just a damn dog fight lets see after the QT!!!!!!! good luck to all!

omega striker wrote:
LOL whoa whoa lot of favortisim and giving alot of credit where maybe it's not do in this line up!
1.DTR/Dynamo-we will just leave them alone
2.DTS-yea they have played alot and have done well against the elite competition
3.Solar Red-always a finalist enough said
4.Andromeda red-i'm only going to move them up cause' of the recent drop off from FCD suarez and copa/blue cause' the competition they had in the tut wasn't any of the "elite" teams? they are going to have to show more then that!
5.Barcelona-the best independent team around and until one of the other teams beat them NOT one should get ranked higher especially since they have been playing against the "elite" teams all season long and have proved themselves
6.FCD(suarez)-not sure whats going on exactly but they are slippin' a little
7.Solar(crawford)-great showing this weekend against some tough competition and great tournament win looks like they added some talent!
8.Tyler azzuri/Tx Gunners- azzuri is a tough scrappy team with alot of speed and talent they just can't beat the "elite" teams,Gunners,well there going to have beat more of the "elite" and seeing that they didn't play any of the top teams this past SDL season and they didn't play against any top level competiton in the tut so we will have to wait and see durin the season?
9.Texas Titans/FCD velez- still a strong team
10.FCD blue(formerly copa)-they have earned a top ten ranking so far but their recent play has really suprised me hope it's just the new coach looking at things before it all count's?
11thru 50 or whatever-it's just a damn dog fight lets see after the QT!!!!!!! good luck to all!

Interesting opinions. It looks like we do agree on quite a bit. Not sure where the favoritism is, however....

1. I can't rank a Barcelona team that is 2-0-5 (w-t-l) in their last 2 tournaments (NAMDC, Puma Cup), hardly the results you'd expect from "the top independent". They are a tough team and play hard, but need to earn the results on the field against the top teams first.
   
   
2. FCD Suarez has slipped a lot further than most realize. This weekend was a peek at where they are post-signing. They did little to quell the rumors of a tailspin.
   
   
3. FCD Blue took a huge leap backwards this weekend. Did you know that FCD Blue is 6-2-7 (w-t-l) in their last 4 tournaments (NAMDC, ASG, Flamefest, King Tut)? They are trending downward and hardly a top 10 team right now.
   
   
4. I do like Velez's Titans. They were always tough as FCD East. They played a ridiculously weak bracket in the King Tut, but they did win. Not enough to crack the top 10 yet.

I am going to start a website where the kids can Rank the Parents Teams.

While I respect everyone opinions, unless you watch every game it is very hard to tell how it will shake out. After sighning ,alot of teams, have alot of new players .1-3,4 agreed very good . For example In the game against andro (for that game we were totally outplayed ).We had a 1on 1 with the goalie and missed then they had a hand ball in the box that should have been a pk for us.We make those 2 and everyone is on here talking about how we hung with them when the facts are we didn't. They out played us like we outplayed cc orange the score just doesn't show these things sometimes . Some times it's purely match-ups- Andro beats central 3-0 we beat them 4-0 Then central goes and ties cc orange , a team andro beat 5-0 and we lost to 2-1 doesn't make sense sometimes. So while we all sit on here predicting the upcoming season , chances are we may be suprised. REMEMBER THEIR 11. But it is fun to guess and be proven right or wrong. good luck to all the boys in q/t there is no shame in playing d-1,2 or AP,PP as long as your having fun ,staying in shape and staying out of trouble.

well good thing the classic league committee doesn't care about rankings but don't they go by the past season and tournaments and not just the last few tourneys? if that were the case then DTR/Dynamo and DTS wouldn't be ranked at all for playing this past weekend? we will see next week were everybody is seeded!
oh and Barcelona unlike Gunners played the "elite" teams in SDL not the "middle of the pack" teams.

EVERYthing is looked at . Record. tournaments, who they played , how they played, history of coach,club, past records from coaches past teams , clubs teams records ( hence dtr) . They will do everything to insure the best 30 teams make classic.

omega striker wrote:well good thing the classic league committee doesn't care about rankings but don't they go by the past season and tournaments and not just the last few tourneys? if that were the case then DTR/Dynamo and DTS wouldn't be ranked at all for playing this past weekend? we will see next week were everybody is seeded!
oh and Barcelona unlike Gunners played the "elite" teams in SDL not the "middle of the pack" teams.

You are absolutely right. The committee will come up with their own rankings. I would think the committee would weight the recent tourneys a bit heavier. These are the games that would most likely have had a larger number of the signed players playing. But if a team hasn't played, the committee will probably go back to the latest data they have. It will be interesting to see how the seeding shakes out!

Oh and didn't the Gunners beat Barcelona 2 - 1 at the SDL Spring Festival? I know Gunners beat Dallas Texans Red South in the final 1-0 to win the tournament. As I said, I think Barcelona is a very good team. They play hard and fight to win. They've had some tough results recently, but I'm sure they'll continue to grow as a team and I do see them in D1 this year. I just don't see them as a #1 seed in the QT.... but it's just my opinion and I am not on the committee. Just crunching some numbers and having some fun.

Pretty crazy tournament results. Here's the best one. Andro Red beats C.C. Orange 5-0. Then Orange beats Tornado 5-1. Later Andro Red only beats Tornado 4-2.

Eleven Eleven wrote:Pretty crazy tournament results. Here's the best one. Andro Red beats C.C. Orange 5-0. Then Orange beats Tornado 5-1. Later Andro Red only beats Tornado 4-2.

Here's a better one.... from this year's NA Memorial Day Cup: Tyler Azzurri beats FCD Copa 4-1. Texans Dynamo beats Tyler Azzurri 5-0. FCD Copa and Texans Dynamo draw 0-0.

You can look at any sport, any level and find similar results. So many dynamics enter into each and every contest, which is why they play the games.

How wrong would it be to use U10 (Academy) tournament results to seed the U11's ? The NTSA guideline for Academy soccer is based on developing skills. Not every coach feels the need to assemble a U10 powerhouse in order to feed their egos and their wallets. And what about the teams that used guest players in tournaments to pad their record and the teams that have had roster makeovers?

Eleven Eleven wrote:How wrong would it be to use U10 (Academy) tournament results to seed the U11's ? The NTSA guideline for Academy soccer is based on developing skills. Not every coach feels the need to assemble a U10 powerhouse in order to feed their egos and their wallets. And what about the teams that used guest players in tournaments to pad their record and the teams that have had roster makeovers?

That's why typically "pre-July 1st" results aren't as heavily considered as much as what happens after July 1st. And why club reputation, coach's prior history of teams, coach's reputation are considered, as well. In the case of the DT teams, historically their first team is a very strong team, worthy of a top 10 seed (if not the #1 seed), as well as producing a somewhat strong 2nd team...it is, what it is, like it or not.

How many games do you play in the qualifying tournament? Also, if you are ranked say # 10 what would that mean as far as what ranked teams you play?

Eleven Eleven wrote:How wrong would it be to use U10 (Academy) tournament results to seed the U11's ? The NTSA guideline for Academy soccer is based on developing skills. Not every coach feels the need to assemble a U10 powerhouse in order to feed their egos and their wallets. And what about the teams that used guest players in tournaments to pad their record and the teams that have had roster makeovers?

What other information exists in order to seed the U11 Qualifying Tournament? There is only 1 weekend of post-July 1 tournaments prior to the QT, and even then rosters are not final. Team can have guest players for the tourneys and still may be under the 16-man roster limit. Any committee attempting to seed is going to have to look at the most recent (Summer tourneys/Spring) results. I think the major tournaments (NAMDC, ASG Adidas, King Tut, Puma Cup.... and maybe Carey Invitational, Flamefest) have to be looked at with the most relevance. And I also think the overall results (and maybe trend) from the Spring have to be considered. These results are going to have to be attached to a coach and/or "team" regardless of how much of the roster has signed for U11.... I just don't see a better way in the current system to come up with an informed opinion and seed justly.

As for coaches "....assembl(ing) a U10 powerhouse in order to feed their egos and their wallets." I just don't see what this issue has to do with seeding. Sure coaches have egos and most do coach as a job. They are trying to develop soccer players and build teams. That is how they achieve success at the top of their profession. Most take the Winter/Spring to begin to prepare for Select. If they build a strong U10 team that wins games, then that team should be rewarded with a just seeding for the U11 QT. They all know how qualifying works and they have to make a decision on what route to go.

I agree completely with you that looking at U10 is not the best way to seed the current roster-ed teams. Guest players and roster movement do have a huge impact on a team. If you want to fix this "issue", then mandate every U11 team play in 2-3 tournaments after the rosters are set. This would allow a "better" set of data for a true seeding. I don't see this happening, though. The current system gets you close enough and the rest will play out on the field. Essentially, this is what the QT is trying to accomplish.

CLUB31 wrote:How many games do you play in the qualifying tournament? Also, if you are ranked say # 10 what would that mean as far as what ranked teams you play?

Depending on the amount of teams you will have 4 and 5 team brackets. The winner of each bracket is qualified for D1, the next two will go to the 2nd weekend and the remaining teams 4th and 5th place go to Plano or Arlington.
You have seeds 1 - 10 than 11 goes to 10, 12 to 9, 13 to 8 and so on, like a snake until you have all teams. Therefore it really doesn't matter if you are seeded as 16, 35 or 47, you need to win your games to get into D1 anyway and sometimes it's an advantage to be seeded very low from mental point of view.
The commitee usually does a good job in seeding the teams to their knowledge. You will always have some surprises but in general it works out well.

CLUB31 wrote:How many games do you play in the qualifying tournament? Also, if you are ranked say # 10 what would that mean as far as what ranked teams you play?

Based on last year, I expect the seeding to breakdown as follows (assuming 50 teams/10 groups):

Group A: #1, #20, #21, #31, #50
Group B: #2, #19, #22, #32, #49
Group C: #3, #18, #23, #33, #48
Group D: #4, #17, #24, #34, #47
Group E: #5, #16, #25, #35, #46
Group F: #6, #15, #26, #36, #45
Group G: #7, #14, #27, #37, #44
Group H: #8, #13, #28, #38, #43
Group I: #9, #12, #29, #39, #42
Group J: #10, #11, #30, #40, #41

Each team will play every other team in their group.

The group winner is in D1. The group 2nd and 3rd advance to Round 2.

Again based on last year, there is re-seeding for Round 2 and should be 5 groups. All 20 teams that advance to Round 2 will play in Classic League. The top 2 finishers in each Round 2 group make D1. The bottom 2 make D2.

Sounds like the re-seeding in round two makes it fair for a really good team who loses a tough game or gets put in a tough bracket the first weekend to be rewarded the next weekend. I didn't realize there were that many teams in select.
Thanks for the information

The 4th and 5th teams will not be sent to Plano after the 1st round. If there are 50 teams in the tryouts only 10 will not be asked back for the 2nd round.

Eleven Eleven wrote:The 4th and 5th teams will not be sent to Plano after the 1st round. If there are 50 teams in the tryouts only 10 will not be asked back for the 2nd round.

In years past, depending on the number of teams that enter the QT, the last place teams in a bracket, went to either Plano or Arlington after the first weekend. For the second weekend, the remaining teams are "re-seeded/bracketed" and play for the remaining 20 slots in CL - 10 in D1 and 10 in D2. Teams not quailifying for CL after the second weekend, go to either Plano or Arlington.

Eleven Eleven wrote:The 4th and 5th teams will not be sent to Plano after the 1st round. If there are 50 teams in the tryouts only 10 will not be asked back for the 2nd round.

Last year the U11 QT did only have 45 teams, so there were 5 groups of 4 and 5 groups of 5. Only the 2nd and 3rd place finishers from Round 1 advanced to Round 2. That means they eliminated 15 teams after Round 1 and everyone in Round 2 was in Classic.

On what do you base your information regarding the committee (sounds so mysterious) only eliminating last place teams from Round 1 this year? I'm not in disagreement that this makes sense, just curious as to your source.

rip wrote:

omega striker wrote:well good thing the classic league committee doesn't care about rankings but don't they go by the past season and tournaments and not just the last few tourneys? if that were the case then DTR/Dynamo and DTS wouldn't be ranked at all for playing this past weekend? we will see next week were everybody is seeded!
oh and Barcelona unlike Gunners played the "elite" teams in SDL not the "middle of the pack" teams.

You are absolutely right. The committee will come up with their own rankings. I would think the committee would weight the recent tourneys a bit heavier. These are the games that would most likely have had a larger number of the signed players playing. But if a team hasn't played, the committee will probably go back to the latest data they have. It will be interesting to see how the seeding shakes out!

Oh and didn't the Gunners beat Barcelona 2 - 1 at the SDL Spring Festival? I know Gunners beat Dallas Texans Red South in the final 1-0 to win the tournament. As I said, I think Barcelona is a very good team. They play hard and fight to win. They've had some tough results recently, but I'm sure they'll continue to grow as a team and I do see them in D1 this year. I just don't see them as a #1 seed in the QT.... but it's just my opinion and I am not on the committee. Just crunching some numbers and having some fun.

no the recent tournements will not be a major factor(thats why a no-show from DTR and DTS) and didn't Gunners get blasted by DTS 4-1 and DTS barely squeeked by FCD Copa/blue? I saw those games and can't figure out what happened to Copa/blue since then or even what happened to them in the NAMC tournament? regardless their past history will speak volumes for them and the Gunners are alot like the OCFC Red squad showing well in a couple of tournaments but then either didn't play well in the last seasons league play or not against the top teams? lets see what happens after the QT and in the Labor day tournament!

So, will we know the seedings after this weekend's QT manager's meeting?