Self-Centered Coach

Unbelievable. Wizards 99 coach did not enter his team in Bobby Rhine and one of his players wants to guest play with another team and he says no cuz he does not like that other team. Dad says do it for my kid and he says no.

Any claims to care about his player is obviously not true. That guy just thinks about himself.

Isn't your title redundant?


Really, Riq, I feel for you but can't say that I'm surprised by the coach's behavior. Several do this, or worse...It's not about what's best for the boy unless that coach is trying to get the player to guest for him.

Soccerinsanity wrote:Isn't your title redundant?


Really, Riq, I feel for you but can't say that I'm surprised by the coach's behavior. Several do this, or worse...It's not about what's best for the boy unless that coach is trying to get the player to guest for him.

Maybe so.

Times have changed. I remember when being asked to guest play was a great honor and was actually encouraged by coaches. Now it's almost rare. Coaches seem threatened by other coaches who ask for their players, when I think they should be proud. There seems to be the idea that there's always some ulterior motive at play, when in reality if a coach is developing a top level player he/she should be more than happy to have that player go and display their talent/ability elsewhere. I think it is a sign of respect when someone asks for one of my players. It means I'm doing something right. If I am a good coach then my player will stay with me, and there is nothing to fear. Other players will appreciate a quality player and gravitate towards a coach with the confidence to let his/her player guest play and the ability to develop players of that quality. At least, that's how I see it.

Jules

A lot of coaches are not doing the development and are afraid of you seeing how green the grass is on the other side of the fence.

i have heard of coaches telling players that if they guest play somewhere they won't be invited back, now that's a sorry coach

D143 wrote:A lot of coaches are not doing the development and are afraid of you seeing how green the grass is on the other side of the fence.

There does seem to be quite a bit of insecurity in the coaching ranks these days, and with good reason. Typically I can count on one hand the number of good coaches in any given club.

Jules

soccerisgood123 wrote:i have heard of coaches telling players that if they guest play somewhere they won't be invited back, now that's a sorry coach

It is also sorry that it works and that parents actually come back for more. I say go to NTX for the guest player release and find a new club in the spring.

my2cents wrote:

soccerisgood123 wrote:i have heard of coaches telling players that if they guest play somewhere they won't be invited back, now that's a sorry coach

It is also sorry that it works and that parents actually come back for more. I say go to NTX for the guest player release and find a new club in the spring.

Good luck with that. They are one in the same.

Axxman wrote:

my2cents wrote:

soccerisgood123 wrote:i have heard of coaches telling players that if they guest play somewhere they won't be invited back, now that's a sorry coach

It is also sorry that it works and that parents actually come back for more. I say go to NTX for the guest player release and find a new club in the spring.

Good luck with that. They are one in the same.

NTX staff said if coach wont sign guest release NTX cannot do anything to overturn that decision.

kinda seems 2-sided to me.

coach wants to keep a player from guest playing on another team, maybe to keep that player from seeing something on the other side and getting thoughts about leaving, maybe to keep the other coach from trying to steal/recruit the player away.

player (& parent) guest plays for another team and sees that he fits better on that team or has a better connection with that coach and wants to leave the team and coach that allowed him to guest. this "guest playing" could be code for a scouting mission to showcase your player to the other side.

it works both ways to me. it doesn't have to work like that and it didn't used to like someone refered to earlier in the thread. i don't know which came first though, coaches discouraging guest playing more frequently to keep their players or parents wanting to guest play to sees if the grass is greener. Chicken meet egg.

it all seems to end in the parent asking for a release and moving on, even within the same club. sad really.

This is kinda like saying to a girlfriend, "Hey. You're the best and I really like dating you. I don't want to stop dating you. But... That girl over there wants to hook up with me JUST for this weekend. She really likes all these cool clothes you bought me. Obviously we're still together and she knows that. But... would it be cool if I just hooked up with her for this weekend? I'll be back on Monday definitely."

Try to take it as a compliment from both sides then accept it for what it is and move on. Getting upset will only deteriorate the situation because you’re dealing with fragile egos.
1. The coach that is inviting your BB to guest play is making that offer because he thinks your son can improve his team's chances of winning games. If he didn't think your son would make his team better, he wouldn't offer this.
2. The coach that is refusing to let you do it perceives your BB as too valuable to lose. He's not willing to jeopardize your BB's status by allowing your BB to be swooned by another coach for an extended period of time. If your coach didn't like your BB he probably would have immediately agreed to sign the form.

(Your BB must feel like the "prettiest belle at the ball" right now.)

With that said... Guest playing is almost always used as a recruiting opportunity. Anybody that thinks otherwise is smoking something strong. No coach is going to have a kid guest play for them and not consider that player as a roster addition. The inviting coach KNOWS he's jeopardizing your status with your current team. A really savvy coach might even be making this offer to intentionally do just that.

If any of us are going to ask our current coach about guest playing elsewhere, we really need to have an excellent/trusting relationship with our current coach. That relationship IS GOING TO BE STRAINED no matter what.

bigtex75081 wrote:This is kinda like saying to a girlfriend, "Hey. You're the best and I really like dating you. I don't want to stop dating you. But... That girl over there wants to hook up with me JUST for this weekend. She really likes all these cool clothes you bought me. Obviously we're still together and she knows that. But... would it be cool if I just hooked up with her for this weekend? I'll be back on Monday definitely."

Try to take it as a compliment from both sides then accept it for what it is and move on. Getting upset will only deteriorate the situation because you’re dealing with fragile egos.
1. The coach that is inviting your BB to guest play is making that offer because he thinks your son can improve his team's chances of winning games. If he didn't think your son would make his team better, he wouldn't offer this.
2. The coach that is refusing to let you do it perceives your BB as too valuable to lose. He's not willing to jeopardize your BB's status by allowing your BB to be swooned by another coach for an extended period of time. If your coach didn't like your BB he probably would have immediately agreed to sign the form.

(Your BB must feel like the "prettiest belle at the ball" right now.)

With that said... Guest playing is almost always used as a recruiting opportunity. Anybody that thinks otherwise is smoking something strong. No coach is going to have a kid guest play for them and not consider that player as a roster addition. The inviting coach KNOWS he's jeopardizing your status with your current team. A really savvy coach might even be making this offer to intentionally do just that.

If any of us are going to ask our current coach about guest playing elsewhere, we really need to have an excellent/trusting relationship with our current coach. That relationship IS GOING TO BE STRAINED no matter what.

i can agree but consider this. your team is doing nothing for the holidays, another team is playing in a tournament. you would like to play because you like to play soccer, or you have a friend on the team or that team is missing a goalkeeper. there are other reasons plus the purpose of this exercise we call ntx soccer is to play and get better NOT kowtow to insecure coaches. i would also say coaches who act this way are planting the seed for that player to say, screw this i'm gone when my time is up. words to chew on while you eat turkey....

Well said, Soc123!

Lots of players just want to play and when their team isn't in a tournament, they still would like the chance to have some fun with old friends or new friends....

Riquelme wrote:

Axxman wrote:

my2cents wrote:

soccerisgood123 wrote:i have heard of coaches telling players that if they guest play somewhere they won't be invited back, now that's a sorry coach

It is also sorry that it works and that parents actually come back for more. I say go to NTX for the guest player release and find a new club in the spring.

Good luck with that. They are one in the same.

NTX staff said if coach wont sign guest release NTX cannot do anything to overturn that decision.

Looks like that rule was changed. Not certain but I thoughrt it used to be if the player's team was idle then they would sign it. Now it reads only in June. I would calmly but firmly let that coach know that he REALLY does not want to do that. Forget this "I don't want to upset the coach or endanger the player's spot on the team" outlook. You are the paying customer. The coach is effectively your contract employee, Act like the boss and let him know his actions are unacceptable and will have serious consequences on the relationship.

my2cents wrote:
Looks like that rule was changed. Not certain but I thoughrt it used to be if the player's team was idle then they would sign it. Now it reads only in June. I would calmly but firmly let that coach know that he REALLY does not want to do that. Forget this "I don't want to upset the coach or endanger the player's spot on the team" outlook. You are the paying customer. The coach is effectively your contract employee, Act like the boss and let him know his actions are unacceptable and will have serious consequences on the relationship.

The coach/parent/player relationship needs to be based on mutual understanding and benefit. For both side there are benefits to guest playing, and some risks. You should be able to have a reasonable conversation as equals with the coach.

They aren't your employee, they will have a job whether you are there or not. The coach is selling. The parent is buying. By and large it is a seller's market. Your mileage may vary. You can't be scared of the coach but I wouldn't pull the boss card unless you are the superstar.

Hell, Texans won't let 9 yr olds with no contract guest play.

Number13 wrote:

my2cents wrote:
Looks like that rule was changed. Not certain but I thoughrt it used to be if the player's team was idle then they would sign it. Now it reads only in June. I would calmly but firmly let that coach know that he REALLY does not want to do that. Forget this "I don't want to upset the coach or endanger the player's spot on the team" outlook. You are the paying customer. The coach is effectively your contract employee, Act like the boss and let him know his actions are unacceptable and will have serious consequences on the relationship.

The coach/parent/player relationship needs to be based on mutual understanding and benefit. For both side there are benefits to guest playing, and some risks. You should be able to have a reasonable conversation as equals with the coach.

They aren't your employee, they will have a job whether you are there or not. The coach is selling. The parent is buying. By and large it is a seller's market. Your mileage may vary. You can't be scared of the coach but I wouldn't pull the boss card unless you are the superstar.

Hell, Texans won't let 9 yr olds with no contract guest play.

What a joke and yes they are your employee, when one person pays another then that person receiving the money is an employee. coaches hate that idea but in reality they are no different than paying a piano teacher, or tennis pro to teach your kid a skill. keep that in mind and things become much simpler. these coaches need your money far more than you need them especially at 9 10 11 years old....lol

[quote="Number13"]

my2cents wrote:
They aren't your employee, they will have a job whether you are there or not. The coach is selling. The parent is buying. By and large it is a seller's market. Your mileage may vary. You can't be scared of the coach but I wouldn't pull the boss card unless you are the superstar.

Hell, Texans won't let 9 yr olds with no contract guest play.

There are no contracts for 9 years old. Under 11, there is no concept of guest play - all players are free agents able to move at will among teams.

[quote="eredivisie"]

Number13 wrote:

my2cents wrote:
They aren't your employee, they will have a job whether you are there or not. The coach is selling. The parent is buying. By and large it is a seller's market. Your mileage may vary. You can't be scared of the coach but I wouldn't pull the boss card unless you are the superstar.

Hell, Texans won't let 9 yr olds with no contract guest play.

There are no contracts for 9 years old. Under 11, there is no concept of guest play - all players are free agents able to move at will among teams.

Neat trick. How did number13's quote get credited to me? 13, when it comes to my kids I am the boss.

[/quote]

What a joke and yes they are your employee, when one person pays another then that person receiving the money is an employee. coaches hate that idea but in reality they are no different than paying a piano teacher, or tennis pro to teach your kid a skill. keep that in mind and things become much simpler. these coaches need your money far more than you need them especially at 9 10 11 years old....lol[/quote]Go



silliest comment I have ever read on this board. Go with that if you want but you couldn't be more wrong.

Rooneyhasplugs wrote:

What a joke and yes they are your employee, when one person pays another then that person receiving the money is an employee. coaches hate that idea but in reality they are no different than paying a piano teacher, or tennis pro to teach your kid a skill. keep that in mind and things become much simpler. these coaches need your money far more than you need them especially at 9 10 11 years old....lol[/quote]Go



silliest comment I have ever read on this board. Go with that if you want but you couldn't be more wrong.[/quote]



I agree with u Rooney but the coach I'm talking about has no legit reason for not letting that boy guest play. Just being an A#$. He is just afraid of losing him which he probably will now.

Rooneyhasplugs wrote:

What a joke and yes they are your employee, when one person pays another then that person receiving the money is an employee. coaches hate that idea but in reality they are no different than paying a piano teacher, or tennis pro to teach your kid a skill. keep that in mind and things become much simpler. these coaches need your money far more than you need them especially at 9 10 11 years old....lol[/quote]Go



silliest comment I have ever read on this board. Go with that if you want but you couldn't be more wrong.[/quote]

You must be a coach. Sorry to burst your bubble, this is kids soccer and a coach is once again just someone you pay to teach a skill and in ntx there are a million coaches. Parents foolishly give way too much power to these has beens who coach kids...

soccerisgood123 wrote:

Number13 wrote:
The coach/parent/player relationship needs to be based on mutual understanding and benefit. For both side there are benefits to guest playing, and some risks. You should be able to have a reasonable conversation as equals with the coach.

They aren't your employee, they will have a job whether you are there or not. The coach is selling. The parent is buying. By and large it is a seller's market. Your mileage may vary. You can't be scared of the coach but I wouldn't pull the boss card unless you are the superstar.

Hell, Texans won't let 9 yr olds with no contract guest play.

What a joke and yes they are your employee, when one person pays another then that person receiving the money is an employee. coaches hate that idea but in reality they are no different than paying a piano teacher, or tennis pro to teach your kid a skill. keep that in mind and things become much simpler. these coaches need your money far more than you need them especially at 9 10 11 years old....lol

You are the customer. They are selling. It doesn't make them your employee. I can't fire the guy who I am waiting in line to buy a Prius from. I can take my business elsewhere, but its not going to impact their revenue. Collectively, yes, if nobody will play for the coach, he has no job. In the vast majority of youth soccer cases, there is somebody clamoring to step in and take your place. If you are a pain in the ass, coach has to weigh you being a pain in the ass with the delta between your kid and a replacement, because they get the same amount of $ either way.

So, whatever, do whatever suits you. Its a mutual relationship. The coach needs good players. If your player is good enough, you have more leverage, so rock on. But I'm pretty sure if you aren't, and you lay down the "my way or the highway" on something like this to a coach, the majority of them will tell you to get bent. Its best to just talk to him like a reasonable adult. If its hugely important, you take a hard line. If you want to guest play and the coach's policy is not to allow it, I would expect to have to do some negotiating.

And yeah, sorry My2cents, error in formatting. I don't want to make anybody else look like a joke, just myself. I'm not sure what "being the boss" means to most people, but to me it means way more cajoling and kissing of subordinates butts than you would think.

Eredivisie: Aware there are no contracts for 9 yr olds. If you are a 9 yr old and play for certain Texans teams you can go guest play, but you won't be allowed back to train with Texans. (at least that is the threat as described to me). You get to go be a free agent elsewhere.

"You are the customer. They are selling. It doesn't make them your employee. I can't fire the guy who I am waiting in line to buy a Prius from. I can take my business elsewhere, but its not going to impact their revenue"

you are off the mark. that is a one off transaction. a coach is an ongoing relationship providing a service, similar to lawn cutting or taking your kid to music lessons. as far as the texans, if you want to let them act that way to you especially in academy, you deserve what you get. most teams in academy (especially 678 years old)will not resemble the select team and after the first year of select most teams have a lot of movement. i dont think you should be a pain in the butt but especially in academy play wherever and whenever you want. I promise if your kid has some talent they will be sought after but putting up with a ego jerk coach will do far more harm than good...

soccerisgood123 wrote:

Rooneyhasplugs wrote:

What a joke and yes they are your employee, when one person pays another then that person receiving the money is an employee. coaches hate that idea but in reality they are no different than paying a piano teacher, or tennis pro to teach your kid a skill. keep that in mind and things become much simpler. these coaches need your money far more than you need them especially at 9 10 11 years old....lol

Go



silliest comment I have ever read on this board. Go with that if you want but you couldn't be more wrong.[/quote]

You must be a coach. Sorry to burst your bubble, this is kids soccer and a coach is once again just someone you pay to teach a skill and in ntx there are a million coaches. Parents foolishly give way too much power to these has beens who coach kids... [/quote]

Nope not a coach. You're delusional if you think the coach is your employee though. The rest of your comment I would agree with but my response was to your comment the coach is your employee. He's not.