NEXT SEASON PREVIEW U-16

Congrats to the tornados for finishing 1st in d2. They will finally be able to advance after 5 years in d2. Hopefully they and Odyssey will be able to stay in D1. In the past, those that have moved up went back down by the next season (TFC gets to stay though).

soccerdad1 wrote:Congrats to the tornados for finishing 1st in d2. They will finally be able to advance after 5 years in d2. Hopefully they and Odyssey will be able to stay in D1. In the past, those that have moved up went back down by the next season (TFC gets to stay though).

A different coach, a different approach. What a difference it makes.

soccerdad1 wrote:Congrats to the tornados for finishing 1st in d2. They will finally be able to advance after 5 years in d2. Hopefully they and Odyssey will be able to stay in D1. In the past, those that have moved up went back down by the next season (TFC gets to stay though).

***CONGRATULATIONS! Sounds like a hard-working couple of teams.

soccerrus2 wrote:

off_the_woodwork wrote:
Classic league is basically a joke after U15 (if not before) due to their "club keeps the bye" rule, which ensures mediocrity in D1 the rest of the way from U16 and up. Way back when the league used to be about providing the highest level of competition. Now they seem to be more keen on keeping big clubs happy and filled with their stash of byes. In return CCSAI ensures they make money. Sad really.

If they really wanted this to be about competition, Classic League would take one of two steps following U15:
1. Eliminate "club gets the bye", and reinstate N+1 rule (if you don't retain half of your roster plus one from the previous year, you lose your bye.
OR BETTER yet:
2. Hold a qualifying tournament at U16. Everyone starts from scratch (makes sense because this is they year of probably the most player movement anyway.

I don't think either of these will ever happen in my soccer-dad career (and I have a U11 and U15 both in the league). But oh well.

I disagree that Classic after U15 is a joke. There are many talented players in D-1 that decided not to go to DA for a variety of reasons. The top 2-3 teams are in reality the only ones capable of winning the Grand Championship. Just like it has always been even before DA. To have a qualifying tournament would be a nightmare and only benefit the D-2 and D-3 teams that for many reasons were unable to move up and win their division.

You guys are misinterpreting what I am saying. I did not mean to say there won't be talented players and good teams in D-1. Of course there will be. Academy soccer is not for everyone so there will be some very high quality players that stay, some of the best even.

My beef is that the once-great Classic League Division 1 is OVERALL suffering in quality due to CCSAI's bye policies, especially at U-16. There will be some strong teams, but with current rules the bottom half of D1 may not be as strong as the top half of D2. Clubs can fill the D-1 spots with anyone. Some will recruit good players from other teams to join their players from this season who don't jump to academy. Other clubs might just take a D3 team (or worse) and plug it into D1.

Soccerrus2 you know this will happen because you just witnessed it in U16 this season. Do you really think the top 4-5 teams in D1 this season got any good out of playing FCD West or Solar White this season? Not to pick on those teams but they probably would have struggled to stay in D2 even. However due to screwed up bye system they were given D1 slots, and therefore D1 quality was much lower than it would have been if say, Andro Red, ASG Gold, or Ayses Black would have been there. I would like to see a system that ensured the BEST teams in the age group are in D1...that's all.

Bringing back the N+1 rule would go a long way. Heard the coaches voted against teams leaving for academy holding their slots. Anyone?
Second the congrats to ODY and the Tornados. Tornados show great tenacity in staying a force D2 all these years and then getting promoted. ODY shows good development starting in PPL D2 and earning promotion 4 out of 5 years. Both hard working teams for sure.

Congrats to both teams.....does this now place Tejanos as the early favorite prior to resigning?....

off_the_woodwork wrote:

soccerrus2 wrote:

off_the_woodwork wrote:
Classic league is basically a joke after U15 (if not before) due to their "club keeps the bye" rule, which ensures mediocrity in D1 the rest of the way from U16 and up. Way back when the league used to be about providing the highest level of competition. Now they seem to be more keen on keeping big clubs happy and filled with their stash of byes. In return CCSAI ensures they make money. Sad really.

If they really wanted this to be about competition, Classic League would take one of two steps following U15:
1. Eliminate "club gets the bye", and reinstate N+1 rule (if you don't retain half of your roster plus one from the previous year, you lose your bye.
OR BETTER yet:
2. Hold a qualifying tournament at U16. Everyone starts from scratch (makes sense because this is they year of probably the most player movement anyway.

I don't think either of these will ever happen in my soccer-dad career (and I have a U11 and U15 both in the league). But oh well.

I disagree that Classic after U15 is a joke. There are many talented players in D-1 that decided not to go to DA for a variety of reasons. The top 2-3 teams are in reality the only ones capable of winning the Grand Championship. Just like it has always been even before DA. To have a qualifying tournament would be a nightmare and only benefit the D-2 and D-3 teams that for many reasons were unable to move up and win their division.

You guys are misinterpreting what I am saying. I did not mean to say there won't be talented players and good teams in D-1. Of course there will be. Academy soccer is not for everyone so there will be some very high quality players that stay, some of the best even.

My beef is that the once-great Classic League Division 1 is OVERALL suffering in quality due to CCSAI's bye policies, especially at U-16. There will be some strong teams, but with current rules the bottom half of D1 may not be as strong as the top half of D2. Clubs can fill the D-1 spots with anyone. Some will recruit good players from other teams to join their players from this season who don't jump to academy. Other clubs might just take a D3 team (or worse) and plug it into D1.

Soccerrus2 you know this will happen because you just witnessed it in U16 this season. Do you really think the top 4-5 teams in D1 this season got any good out of playing FCD West or Solar White this season? Not to pick on those teams but they probably would have struggled to stay in D2 even. However due to screwed up bye system they were given D1 slots, and therefore D1 quality was much lower than it would have been if say, Andro Red, ASG Gold, or Ayses Black would have been there. I would like to see a system that ensured the BEST teams in the age group are in D1...that's all.

**I feel the arrival of the DA league divided the talent. It took a once-strong, single, Classic League and divided the talent between CL and DA. For instance, the coach of last year's 2009/2010 SR team left and went to coach Andromeda DA team this year. Some of his SR players went with him to that Andromeda DA team. However, that Andromeda DA is 8th out of the first 9 teams in the Texas Division of DA League. I would be willing to bet at least the top 5 teams in U16 Classic League would give U15/16 Andromeda DA a serious run for their money. Probably the same with the middle-of-the-pack FC Dallas DA team, too, who are 5th out of the first 9 teams. I hope those DA teams at least got the college exposure they were hoping for in their travels to games in Detroit, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

off_the_woodwork wrote:

You guys are misinterpreting what I am saying. I did not mean to say there won't be talented players and good teams in D-1. Of course there will be. Academy soccer is not for everyone so there will be some very high quality players that stay, some of the best even.

My beef is that the once-great Classic League Division 1 is OVERALL suffering in quality due to CCSAI's bye policies, especially at U-16. There will be some strong teams, but with current rules the bottom half of D1 may not be as strong as the top half of D2. Clubs can fill the D-1 spots with anyone. Some will recruit good players from other teams to join their players from this season who don't jump to academy. Other clubs might just take a D3 team (or worse) and plug it into D1.

Soccerrus2 you know this will happen because you just witnessed it in U16 this season. Do you really think the top 4-5 teams in D1 this season got any good out of playing FCD West or Solar White this season? Not to pick on those teams but they probably would have struggled to stay in D2 even. However due to screwed up bye system they were given D1 slots, and therefore D1 quality was much lower than it would have been if say, Andro Red, ASG Gold, or Ayses Black would have been there. I would like to see a system that ensured the BEST teams in the age group are in D1...that's all.

I agreed with you until your second to last sentence. The top 2-3 in D-1 generally outpace the rest of the division anyway. It has been that way for a long time. Having those teams from D-2 would not have made a difference. There is no question....that the advent of DA has weakened D-1! That doesn't mean that it isn't still competitive. I would hate for the Classic League to go to an open tournament so that a D-2 or D-3 team can live their dream of playing in D-1....what am I talking about...thats what they did with west and white!

I can pretty confidently say that there will not be an "open" challenge type tournament for teams to prove themselves...that is what the season and the subsequent promotion/relegation is for.
I totally understand the frustration of seeing a D3 (or even a PPL) team jump into a D1 slot. It's definitely something I believe needs to be discussed at the board meetings. Maybe limit it to a one division jump? No easy answers...lot's of solutions...and not a single one that makes everybody happy.

Singaporefan wrote:
**I feel the arrival of the DA league divided the talent. It took a once-strong, single, Classic League and divided the talent between CL and DA. For instance, the coach of last year's 2009/2010 SR team left and went to coach Andromeda DA team this year. Some of his SR players went with him to that Andromeda DA team. However, that Andromeda DA is 8th out of the first 9 teams in the Texas Division of DA League. I would be willing to bet at least the top 5 teams in U16 Classic League would give U15/16 Andromeda DA a serious run for their money. Probably the same with the middle-of-the-pack FC Dallas DA team, too, who are 5th out of the first 9 teams. I hope those DA teams at least got the college exposure they were hoping for in their travels to games in Detroit, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

Singaporefan,

I am not disagreeing with anything you said but just for clarification. If you took a U16 Classic League team directly into DA they would be a U16/U17 team. So your statement about the top Classic League teams giving the Academy team a "serious run for their money" is a little of kilter in comparing the two teams. The Classic League teams should be able to compete since they are a year older on an average across the board.

soccergrinder wrote:

Singaporefan wrote:
**I feel the arrival of the DA league divided the talent. It took a once-strong, single, Classic League and divided the talent between CL and DA. For instance, the coach of last year's 2009/2010 SR team left and went to coach Andromeda DA team this year. Some of his SR players went with him to that Andromeda DA team. However, that Andromeda DA is 8th out of the first 9 teams in the Texas Division of DA League. I would be willing to bet at least the top 5 teams in U16 Classic League would give U15/16 Andromeda DA a serious run for their money. Probably the same with the middle-of-the-pack FC Dallas DA team, too, who are 5th out of the first 9 teams. I hope those DA teams at least got the college exposure they were hoping for in their travels to games in Detroit, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

Singaporefan,

I am not disagreeing with anything you said but just for clarification. If you took a U16 Classic League team directly into DA they would be a U16/U17 team. So your statement about the top Classic League teams giving the Academy team a "serious run for their money" is a little of kilter in comparing the two teams. The Classic League teams should be able to compete since they are a year older on an average across the board.

Grinder,

If we are talking about a current U16 team you are incorrect.

A current U16 Classic team would be able to play as a U16 Academy team. They would generally be bit younger than the U16 Academy team as the Academy team will have players that would have to play in U17 Classic League (Jan-Jul 94 birth year).

A U16 academy team would be U17 in classic league.
A U18 academy team would be U19 in Classic League.

soccergrinder wrote:

Singaporefan wrote:
**I feel the arrival of the DA league divided the talent. It took a once-strong, single, Classic League and divided the talent between CL and DA. For instance, the coach of last year's 2009/2010 SR team left and went to coach Andromeda DA team this year. Some of his SR players went with him to that Andromeda DA team. However, that Andromeda DA is 8th out of the first 9 teams in the Texas Division of DA League. I would be willing to bet at least the top 5 teams in U16 Classic League would give U15/16 Andromeda DA a serious run for their money. Probably the same with the middle-of-the-pack FC Dallas DA team, too, who are 5th out of the first 9 teams. I hope those DA teams at least got the college exposure they were hoping for in their travels to games in Detroit, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

Singaporefan,

I am not disagreeing with anything you said but just for clarification. If you took a U16 Classic League team directly into DA they would be a U16/U17 team. So your statement about the top Classic League teams giving the Academy team a "serious run for their money" is a little of kilter in comparing the two teams. The Classic League teams should be able to compete since they are a year older on an average across the board.

96 Classic League player DOB 8/1/95 to 7/31/96 - median DOB 1/31/96. 96 DA player DOB 1/1/96 to 1/31/96 median DOB 7/1/96. 6 monthes older on average across the board. Significant yes, but not very at this age and not if they are supposed to be that superior in talent.

[quote="soccergrinder"]

Singaporefan wrote:
**I feel the arrival of the DA league divided the talent. It took a once-strong, single, Classic League and divided the talent between CL and DA. For instance, the coach of last year's 2009/2010 SR team left and went to coach Andromeda DA team this year. Some of his SR players went with him to that Andromeda DA team. However, that Andromeda DA is 8th out of the first 9 teams in the Texas Division of DA League. I would be willing to bet at least the top 5 teams in U16 Classic League would give U15/16 Andromeda DA a serious run for their money. Probably the same with the middle-of-the-pack FC Dallas DA team, too, who are 5th out of the first 9 teams. I hope those DA teams at least got the college exposure they were hoping for in their travels to games in Detroit, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

Singaporefan,

I am not disagreeing with anything you said but just for clarification. If you took a U16 Classic League team directly into DA they would be a U16/U17 team. So your statement about the top Classic League teams giving the Academy team a "serious run for their money" is a little of kilter in comparing the two teams. The Classic League teams should be able to compete since they are a year older on an average across the board




Grinder:

If you take a look at rosters for all the NTX DA teams none have U15 players listed on there FT player list they may have a few who are DP but none on active roster.

In fact some have 94 birthyear (U17) players on U16 team, so to say U16 classic league teams would be playing down this past season is incorrect they would actually play up against some U17 94 players.

[quote="Friscosoccer"]

soccergrinder wrote:

Singaporefan wrote:
**I feel the arrival of the DA league divided the talent. It took a once-strong, single, Classic League and divided the talent between CL and DA. For instance, the coach of last year's 2009/2010 SR team left and went to coach Andromeda DA team this year. Some of his SR players went with him to that Andromeda DA team. However, that Andromeda DA is 8th out of the first 9 teams in the Texas Division of DA League. I would be willing to bet at least the top 5 teams in U16 Classic League would give U15/16 Andromeda DA a serious run for their money. Probably the same with the middle-of-the-pack FC Dallas DA team, too, who are 5th out of the first 9 teams. I hope those DA teams at least got the college exposure they were hoping for in their travels to games in Detroit, Colorado, Arizona, etc.

Singaporefan,

I am not disagreeing with anything you said but just for clarification. If you took a U16 Classic League team directly into DA they would be a U16/U17 team. So your statement about the top Classic League teams giving the Academy team a "serious run for their money" is a little of kilter in comparing the two teams. The Classic League teams should be able to compete since they are a year older on an average across the board

This is not correct. If today you take a U16 Classic League team, everyone on their roster is eligible by birth day to play on a USSF U15/U16 academy team.

Conversely, a U15/U16 USSF Academy team would have to play in U17 Classic League. To illustrate my point about one third of the full time rostered players on the U16 Solar USSF Academy team are already 17 years old, but they are playing in a "U15/U16 Academy".

Ok I'm completely lost on that one. How can a 17 year old player be on an Under 16 team?

my2cents wrote:Bringing back the N+1 rule would go a long way. Heard the coaches voted against teams leaving for academy holding their slots. Anyone?
Second the congrats to ODY and the Tornados. Tornados show great tenacity in staying a force D2 all these years and then getting promoted. ODY shows good development starting in PPL D2 and earning promotion 4 out of 5 years. Both hard working teams for sure.

Maybe after Texans, Solar and FCD get this new league going, they won't feel the need to coerce CL into preventing N+1. I look for CL to institute N+1 after the so-called "big clubs" make their moves.

my2cents wrote:Ok I'm completely lost on that one. How can a 17 year old player be on an Under 16 team?

I didn't say it made any sense, but that is how USSF set things up.

THE NEEDLE wrote:
A U16 academy team would be U17 in classic league.
A U18 academy team would be U19 in Classic League.

Maybe. But not necessarily. A U16 Academy team is made up of 95's and 94's. U16 Classic League teams are made up of 95's and 94's. So if U16 Academy team had 95's and 94's and the 94's were born after the July cutoff then they would be a U16 CL team. But it goes the other way too. The current U17 CL teams are made up of 94's and 93's. If they were to take those teams into the Academy they would be U17/U18. Thus when individuals are comparing the outcomes of games between U15/U16 Academy against U17 CL those are skewed because the U17 CL team by Academy standards is a U17/U18 team.

The real bottom line is this. Comparing a CL team to and Academy team is like compairing apples to oranges. They are different and their make-up is different because of the difference between school year and calendar year. So any comparison is really moot. It's just best to not think of the teams in those terms.

Having been a part of Academy for the last two years I would approach it like this.

A: There are awesome players in the Academy.

B: The Academy teams on an average are a step up from non Academy teams from the same local but not necessarily from one local to another. There are always exceptions to every formula.

C: There are awesome players on non Academy teams.

D: There are non Academy teams that could beat Academy teams.

E: All Academy teams are not created equal. Some locals, i.e. North Texas may produce higher caliber Academy teams than say an Academy team from Hawaii (for example only). Also, the teams player make-up are different from team to team. For example FC Dallas U17/U18 is approxametley 90% Seniors, 5% Juniors, 5% College Level(i.e. graduated last year) (based on current roster and top starting times), Solar is 90% Juniors, 10% Seniors. This is an example of this years roster and is not used here for any other purpose than to illustrate the point that when you have dual years on a roster there can be large fluctuations from year to year on the makeup of the age of a team.

F: Academy rosters on an average have more depth than a non Academy teams. In other words, both Academy and non Academy have top players at the top of their roster, as you go deep into the roster the Academy teams may loose a little quality but not much. Non Academy teams drop considerably from the top of the roster to the bottom of the roster) discalimer: there are always exceptions to the rule.

G: Money: There is a misconception about the cost of Academy vs Non Academy. Academy is slightley higher but not greatly. For example non Academy U17 teams will travel to showcase tournaments for exposure to College coaches. Typical might be Dallas Cup, Disney Cup, Score on the Shore and Surf Cup. Academy teams might do Dallas Cup, Disney Cup, USSF Fall Showcase, USSF Spring Showcase. Each do 4 showcases. A wash on expenses.

Non Academy play in Premier League. A regional league with home and away games in South Texas (Austin, Houston) and Oklahoma (Edmond, Tulsa). Academy teams play in a regional league and do home and away games with South Texas only (Austin, San Antonio and Houston). Academy is slightley higher for regional expenses because they play fall and spring. Premier League is only fall.

Academy also has one non regional league trip. We have gone one year to Ohio, this year we went to Michigan. This is where Academy is more expensive.

Non Academy teams pay between $2000 - $3000 fee to club. Academy plays for free. Here is where Academy is cheaper.

Also Academy does not pay an entry fee to the USSF Showcase tournaments. So Academy is $1000 - $2000 cheaper for tournament fees than non Academy teams.

Uniforms: non Academy teams allocate around $300 for uniforms. Academy teams uniforms are free. Solar's Uniforms this year were about $1000 per player (provided by Chelsea and Adidas), cost free to the player.

This structure I have laid out fits both Texans and Solar (approximatley). Of course FC Dallas everything is free. And Andromeda the players/families pay for everything.

H: Coaching: Its the same for non Academy and Academy teams. What I mean is Hassan coaches the same whether he is coaching his 97's or the Academy. His coaching style does not change. He is just as pleasant to his 97's as he is to his Academy players. So Academy coaching is not superior to non Academy coaching because you have the same coaches. FC Dallas is a little different because they can use more coaches because they have more money. Does more money = better coaching. Answer: no, yes, maybe, sometimes, not necessarily

I: Exposure: Does Academy teams get more exposure to colleges and college coaches than non academy teams, Answer: Absolutley. Academy from last year Dallas Cup: 25-40 coaches, Disney Cup 50-75 coaches, USSF Fall Showcase 200 - 250 coaches (we had 125 at one game), USSF Spring Showcase 200 - 250.

J: Can you get a scholaship to play in college if you aren't on an Academy team. Absolutley. Your coach is your best agent. There are many local coaches who have great repore and connections with many colleges and can help you considerably when trying to get a college scholarship.

K: What are my chances of getting a college scholarship if I am not on an Academy team. Low, but possible

L: What are my chances of getting a college scholarship if I am on an Academy team. Pretty good.

M: You don't choose the college, the college chooses you. The moons have to align. Do they have an openning for your position. Do they have any athletic scholarship money the year you graduate. Is ther Academic money. Probably if you have awesome grades and a high SAT or ACT. Bad grades and you are out.

N: Can I get a full ride on an Athletic scholarship. You are more likely to be hit by lightning. When you hear of someone getting a full ride athletic scholarship that person is most likely lying. Full ride scholarships are rare, and most of them are part academic and athletic and possibly some needs based. A partial scholaship is more likely to attain.

WOW, thats a lot of info. Not trying to start an argument but I know it is inevitable on a forum. Don't have time to do a spell check. So shoot me for mispelled words. This is rambling from a parent/manager/former commissioner/former board member. Take it for what it is.

I love North Texas soccer. I love the diversity of choices the kids and parents have. There is a lot of good that goes on. There is a lot of bad that goes on. Parents should shut up and let the kids play and the coaches coach (me included). The referees are fine when we win and they are horrible when we loose. Get over it. Also, get over it when a ref calls the wrong side on a throw in. It's a throw in people, it will not change the outcomne of the game. Geez. I only have one wish. That is that one day North Texas focuses on the development of some of our awesome talent insteed of focusing on winning.

Very well done grinder. Thanks.

Grinder,

Very very well said. You are spot on with your comments.

Anyone know how the 96' teams are compounding? Are there any teams that are re-built, or moved-up, or stayed together?...any idea on who will be where?

Thank you Grinder- well said.
What happens to the Premier League byes for the top 4 teams that are basically starting over?

bulldogsmom wrote:Thank you Grinder- well said.
What happens to the Premier League byes for the top 4 teams that are basically starting over?

Premier League has an N+1 returning players rule. NTX has to go down the line of finishers to find either 2 or 4 teams who have returned enough players. When the 95's hit U-16, two teams ended up in premier league, Solar 95 (#3 finish from previous year) and CDI (#6 finish from previous year).

Pretty confident the 1-5 finishers in D1 will not be able to meet n+1. I don't know about TFC, DTRS or DTWW (aka Titans). The murky waters should clear a little a week from tomorrow.

I agree with Soccergrinder too!

Do we know which DI teams have retained eligibility for USYS Premiere or National, and if not has the committee given approved entries to fill any slots?