PA players helping struggling teams

I think Go is on to something....those other clubs might want the PA league?!

ts a different governing body and I haven't heard anything about PA itself shutting down

Why would a club that has zero chance of getting a Development Academy League spot want to enter the Pre-Academy league ? Does not that assure them that every one of those players will want to leave for a DA team ? It would make more sense to me to take the path available, CL, Premier and National league than to be a talent pool for other clubs.

yeah but you could form a whole new team of payers.

M2C, Classic League has been given a chance at redemption for letting kids play up. Any chance the league will let U10 play U11? I believe that was one of the arguing points between the clubs and CL prior to PA.

You must remember that it is NTSSA, not CL, that forbids playing up into select in any league. So no, I do not see that happening, nor do I think it should. There are plenty of opportunities for a 9 year old to play and develop skills without being thrown into the win oriented competitive arena.

my2cents wrote:You must remember that it is NTSSA, not CL, that forbids playing up into select in any league. So no, I do not see that happening, nor do I think it should. There are plenty of opportunities for a 9 year old to play and develop skills without being thrown into the win oriented competitive arena.

I disagree, I think it should. My BB's team had a very good younger player, playing up since U8 and was obviously not able to play Select @ U11, with his long-time team.

The thing is (and it is happening next Soccer season), when he is "allowed" to come back to our team to play up in U12, he'll do having lost the "initiation" year in Classic that everybody else had. This is to me, more dangerous and unfair than letting him play up @ U11.

This is a big issue M2C and one that should be addressed by the NTSSA and CL should lead the charge.

Kids can play up in every single age group U6-U18, except U11.

The hard line approach is not advisable at this stage in the evolution of competitive soccer.

Cause nobody cares too much about winning at U9 or U10, right?

They have decided they have to draw a line somewhere and it just so happens to be at U11. I don't know if its a "big" issue or not, but its kind of annoying. My son has always played with two (and now three) younger friends and now those kids not only have to go find something else to do, but they (at least temporarily) are forced to sever their soccer friendships with the main group of kids that they know.

this is one of many issues in ntx that should be changed but it probably will not, let me tell you whats going to change without a doubt........faces and account #'s thats it.

It is not about safety or fairness or keeping teams together. It is about competitive soccer having nothing unique to offer a 9 year old that can not be gotten in in other venues without the pressure of must win competitive environments.
13, have never known of a CL team to have 3 underage players. In BSF NTX it is a huge disadvantage at younger ages so they will be split up anyway.
CD3 it may seem like a big deal right now but trust me with 7 more years to go it really is no big deal and it certainly is not dangerous eithewr way.

ah I get it so instead of looking at the fact that we move kids too soon to big field high competative enviornments we should really be looking at letting them do it an even younger age. yep! that sounds like a good idea.

Stay away from winning at all cost at young age groups. Look at long term goals not short term wins. Your player will be much better off in the long run.

People are obviously way too competitive about it at ALL ages. At least to me. So the argument that there is something distinctive about the U11 environment seems rather facile. Set aside the argument about what size field is appropriate for an 8, 9, 11, 13, whatever year old. It should be fun. Getting told that you can no longer play with your friends and need to figure something else out isn't very fun. That's really it for me. Got nothing to do with winning or competition. At any age other than U11 you can play up if that is your appropriate athletic peer group. Certainly there is no physical reason these specific ones could not play up into CL, they are playing up because they are better than most 03s. Like you say, its not about safety or fairness or whatever, its just arbitrary.....other than that its consistent with the NTX paradigm that there is something mystical about U11 that requires everyone to completely lose their sh*t.

Its no big deal, and its no big shock to anybody, but it seems silly. That doesn't really make it that much different from many other aspects of youth soccer.

Um..Go99...dude...RASE04 girls '03 leagues glass houses rocks etc?

Could it be that U-11 is the first year for select contracts and they want to set some sort of minimum age for that?

justamomof2 wrote: Could it be that U-11 is the first year for select contracts and they want to set some sort of minimum age for that?

Unchallenged, that's a reasonable point

Any reason why a U10 player can't sign a select U11 contract? Other than NTSSA says so?

M2C, competitive soccer is getting younger. Remember the old days when CL had all the top kids from U11-U18? Then DA changed that and CL only got the better kids until U15. Today, the top of CL is effectively D2 beyond U12.

Last year, PA brought competitive soccer down to U11, which in theory would render CL a second tier league from the get go. The customer base has demanded a change. NTSSA/CL can change with it or continue to sit back and watch its' business model wither away.

Speaking of competitive. Have you noticed that the '04 age group has put together a national tournament? Players from all over America are coming to Dallas to play in a competitive environment. These are U9 players! A lot of them are developmentally more than ready to play up this year.

there is nothing specific about the soccer itself. As you said it should be about fun. CL is not fun it is not development it is a must win enviornment where mistakes and losses can have severe consequences. It leads to the type of soccer we see on the fields. Low risk, low creativity, lack of ideas, played to minimize mistakes and capitalize quickly on the mistakes of others. So you are correct there is nothing wrong with playing up and it can be benificial. However the longer we could keep kids out of the CL enviornment the better. I would personally like to see it at 13 instead of 10.

finish1 wrote:M2C, competitive soccer is getting younger. Remember the old days when CL had all the top kids from U11-U18? Then DA changed that and CL only got the better kids until U15. Today, the top of CL is effectively D2 beyond U12.

Last year, PA brought competitive soccer down to U11, which in theory would render CL a second tier league from the get go. The customer base has demanded a change. NTSSA/CL can change with it or continue to sit back and watch its' business model wither away.

Speaking of competitive. Have you noticed that the '04 age group has put together a national tournament? Players from all over America are coming to Dallas to play in a competitive environment. These are U9 players! A lot of them are developmentally more than ready to play up this year.

parents took this and ran with it! wasnt pre academy suppose to be a developmental league and not an "elite" league?

The USSF designed the league, not the parents.

ussf designed it and parents and clubs ruined it

Probably. But it's here to stay. U13/U14 DA starts this year. Who knows, next year it could be U11/U12 DA. What will NTSSA and CL have to offer as an alternative? What about ODP? How will both remain relevant? Maybe the glory days are already behind those two groups...

omega striker wrote:

finish1 wrote:M2C, competitive soccer is getting younger. Remember the old days when CL had all the top kids from U11-U18? Then DA changed that and CL only got the better kids until U15. Today, the top of CL is effectively D2 beyond U12.

Last year, PA brought competitive soccer down to U11, which in theory would render CL a second tier league from the get go. The customer base has demanded a change. NTSSA/CL can change with it or continue to sit back and watch its' business model wither away.

Speaking of competitive. Have you noticed that the '04 age group has put together a national tournament? Players from all over America are coming to Dallas to play in a competitive environment. These are U9 players! A lot of them are developmentally more than ready to play up this year.

parents took this and ran with it! wasnt pre academy suppose to be a developmental league and not an "elite" league?

Exactly.

here's the real issue. You can't have "leagues" and development. But that goes against all the competing youth soccer entities' business models.

Elsewhere in the world, competition is minimized (in terms of leagues) and the kids play 3v3, 4v4, etc. Nowhere do they play full sided soccer at u11. And very few do it at u12.

Competition (in terms of results) isn't even a consideration until at least u16. Even in England, EPL Academy teams don't play in a league until u17/18.

The overwhelming emphasis is on the basics. And the preteen years they begin to implement tactics. However, the emphasis on tactics is on that given club's first team style.

So, in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter if PA becomes DA or even whether PA players are playing CL games.

It's all about the short term results and the subsequent money it brings in.

Parents will continue to equate winning short term with long term success.

As proof that the system isn't working..just check out our last national team game. Or even the u20's from last night.

finish1 wrote:Probably. But it's here to stay. U13/U14 DA starts this year. Who knows, next year it could be U11/U12 DA. What will NTSSA and CL have to offer as an alternative? What about ODP? How will both remain relevant? Maybe the glory days are already behind those two groups...

When you say U13/U14, what birthdates are encompassed? Technically ODP and PA (if still alive) will have U13s and U14s for their 00's in the Fall, but I don't know if it's the same...

finish1 wrote:M2C, competitive soccer is getting younger. Remember the old days when CL had all the top kids from U11-U18? Then DA changed that and CL only got the better kids until U15. Today, the top of CL is effectively D2 beyond U12.

Last year, PA brought competitive soccer down to U11, which in theory would render CL a second tier league from the get go. The customer base has demanded a change. NTSSA/CL can change with it or continue to sit back and watch its' business model wither away.

Speaking of competitive. Have you noticed that the '04 age group has put together a national tournament? Players from all over America are coming to Dallas to play in a competitive environment. These are U9 players! A lot of them are developmentally more than ready to play up this year.

I don't completely agree with the CL D1 being D2. I know of academy players that got turned away from top 96 D1 teams. There are others that could clearly play academy but for a variety of reasons do not. Aside from the top teams and the top players I do not see a large a divide.

The fact that there is the 04 national tournament re-enforces my point of there are venues for them without going full competitive.
#13 the age cut off has to do with Developmental Psychology in children along with some physiological factors. The way you feel about them seprating friends tells me you have not been around many cuts. Friends get cut with no notice sometimes. With todays texting and facebook if they are true friends it will survive the cuts. My 17 year old has teammates from years back that live 30-60 minutes away still come over for a night or weekend.

Agree with Go here