ETX Premier Accepted then Rejected for State Cup

So just when you thought we had disappeared (all eyes can start rolling now) ETX finds themselves in yet another case of "**** You ETX" this time courtesy of the fine folks at Solar and FCD who threatened to drop from State Cup if we were allowed to remain in the field.

Of course once again (foolishly) we actually relied on the language posted on the NTX web site which shows we are eligible to participate send in our money and are accepted. For whatever reason (our results at Bobby Rhine should show we aren't a threat to that many teams) FCD and Solar pull out the USYSA rule book and buried in there is something about playing in a league.. THe rule is legit so no complaints there and we should have known about it when the season started because all it would have taken is to play 3 measely games against some rec teams out here in ETX so as to meet the stupid rule. We are in an amateur league against Adults in ETX and NTX could if they wanted to use those games as our qualifiers. To the Youth commissioner of NTX you know who butters your bread so by all means continue to be the lapdog that you are for the Dallas megaclubs. I look forward to the future when USSDA US Club and the wave of residential academies that will spring up across the country push USYSA and NTX soccer further into irrelevancy for anything other than rec and adult league

Other states have league rules as well. No surprises there.

But, like fiend said, NTX should have been much more lucid.

I understand most of you CL diehards are going to disagree. But the fact is they took our money, accepted us, thus and so...

Why would FCD and Solar threaten to drop out of the State Cup? Seems like an overreaction, if true.

How do you know it was FCD and Solar (vs. other clubs or none of the clubs)?

Where does ETX Premier play?

PG-Boy wrote:Why would FCD and Solar threaten to drop out of the State Cup? Seems like an overreaction, if true.

How do you know it was FCD and Solar (vs. other clubs or none of the clubs)?

Doesn't matter how we know...just that we KNOW.

Riquelme wrote:Where does ETX Premier play?

mainly tournaments. Some in NTX and the rest elsewhere.

And play in an adult hispanic league in east Tx.

I don't want this to turn into an 11 page rant like the fiasco at Texans Fall Festival so I will close with:

1. Ignorance of the rule is no defense--agreed but ok ask yourself this: Your team wants to play in the "ABC tournament" you go to the "ABC" website to see the particulars, according to the language on the "ABC" website" it appears you are eligible so you send in your money and Club "ABC" accepts you and you go play

in this case NTX Soccer wasn't even aware of its parent USYSA rule it had to be shown to them by "concerned" outsiders so they could apply the "Strict" interpretation of the rule.

Bottom Line, the blame starts at home (with us) from now on I can promise you that as a parent I will insist that we get written assurances from tournament organizers that we are eligible.

To the big clubs over in the Metro.. "Really" what is it about our little indy club that garners so much venom. Yes we are vocal when we feel we have been slighted, no we are not trying to go around you by bypassing Classic League, we just feel for our limited budget that showcases are the best way to get our kids exposure for the next level. We stand ready to drive to Dallas most any weekend one of you guys will give us a game..

Now back under my rock and best of luck to those participating in the State Cup.. for us we have John Talley Showcase this weekend in Memphis, TN and the COPA ESPN in Carrollton next month. For me, I'll be in town for Dallas cup next week watching my other son play so feel free to chastise me in person.

Frustrated but hopefully next season we will work out the kinks for our little showcase team.. I KNOW we will NOT bypass Plano Labor Day next year..

Normally i would say that sucks and those are the rules. But i am uneasy as to why the big clubs would go to so much trouble to bar you. It does make them seem afraid of your team.

soccerisgood123 wrote:Normally i would say that sucks and those are the rules. But i am uneasy as to why the big clubs would go to so much trouble to bar you. It does make them seem afraid of your team.

Great point.

futbolfiend wrote:I don't want this to turn into an 11 page rant like the fiasco at Texans Fall Festival so I will close with:

1. Ignorance of the rule is no defense--agreed but ok ask yourself this: Your team wants to play in the "ABC tournament" you go to the "ABC" website to see the particulars, according to the language on the "ABC" website" it appears you are eligible so you send in your money and Club "ABC" accepts you and you go play

in this case NTX Soccer wasn't even aware of its parent USYSA rule it had to be shown to them by "concerned" outsiders so they could apply the "Strict" interpretation of the rule.

Bottom Line, the blame starts at home (with us) from now on I can promise you that as a parent I will insist that we get written assurances from tournament organizers that we are eligible.

To the big clubs over in the Metro.. "Really" what is it about our little indy club that garners so much venom. Yes we are vocal when we feel we have been slighted, no we are not trying to go around you by bypassing Classic League, we just feel for our limited budget that showcases are the best way to get our kids exposure for the next level. We stand ready to drive to Dallas most any weekend one of you guys will give us a game..

Now back under my rock and best of luck to those participating in the State Cup.. for us we have John Talley Showcase this weekend in Memphis, TN and the COPA ESPN in Carrollton next month. For me, I'll be in town for Dallas cup next week watching my other son play so feel free to chastise me in person.

Frustrated but hopefully next season we will work out the kinks for our little showcase team.. I KNOW we will NOT bypass Plano Labor Day next year..

Well my friend as we are part of an independant team from Pleasant Grove I feel your pain. The big three rule here in NTX no doubt about it. The people working for CL and NTX dont know their own rules most of the time but be like our team and take it as a compliment that they are so scared of your team....

Thought about it some more and since this is the state cup and not the st patrick day warmup tournament or some small potatoes tournament, I think they are much more heavily invested in making sure no team that has not met all qualifications is allowed in.

State cup politics aside, this is essentially a power play.

Think about it, serious players want to play next level. That means racking up points and rankings to get invited to the major showcases/events that bring the most exposure.

The problem is the big clubs have way too much power. And the various governing bodies cater to them. Because league fees bring in revenue. Whether the league is 'justified' or not.

Then you have competing interests. The big DA member clubs want to increase their leverage by having a monopoly. It is much easier for them to recruit players from lesser known clubs.

Because they can promise more 'exposure' for the players.

Since DA is governed by US Soccer, they now have a virtual monopoly on national team, pro and even have the largest share of major college exposure.

US Club competes impressively with USYS. They have their own player id and national cup series...along with their own 'elite' league formats. (Not just preacademy either.)

This is why usys created it's 'national league' system. To compete.

The end result is that the big clubs get bigger. And it forces out or otherwise excludes smaller clubs from getting their players exposure.

That's why the costs to play keep going up.

So, who benefits? The big clubs.

it sure as hell isn't the players.

And in the end the game itself suffers.

soccerisgood123 wrote:Thought about it some more and since this is the state cup and not the st patrick day warmup tournament or some small potatoes tournament, I think they are much more heavily invested in making sure no team that has not met all qualifications is allowed in.

Reluctantly have to conceed and agree with your point..one caveat, it would be within the purview of NTX to accept our adult league games if they so chose. The requirement is not that we play in Classic or Plano or Arlington or that the league has to have some level of competition..just a league of at least 4 teams all sanctioned by the state association. So theoretically we could round up 3 rec teams play them each once and fulfill the "intent" of the rule.

Spirit versus intent....

Bottom line is there was no 'league requirement' in their original language.

You would think that one of the largest youth associations in the country would have had their 'stuff' together.

Clubs and teams like ours represent a 'threat' to the establishment.

I'm not looking to pick a fight, but why not play in one of the leagues in the Dallas area? If you're willing to drive to Dallas every week to play a match against a team, then wouldn't it make sense to join the league? Of course, I don't know the costs or anything like that, as that might be a problem too

Iplaysoccer wrote:I'm not looking to pick a fight, but why not play in one of the leagues in the Dallas area? If you're willing to drive to Dallas every week to play a match against a team, then wouldn't it make sense to join the league? Of course, I don't know the costs or anything like that, as that might be a problem too

That's a fair question. Especially since you were polite.

The reason is we wouldn't get anything from it. As a u16 team our only options would have been Arlington or Plano.

When you factor in time and costs it doesn't make sense for our team.

And, the primary purpose for this team is to get exposure for the players.

And that is very difficult when you are tied up with 10-15 weeks a year of 'league play' weekends.

it makes more sense logistically and financially to take 8-10 weekends per year and play in tournaments...both for 'training/development' purposes as well as exposure.

I don't want to get into the semantics of the merits and disadvantages of playing in any league overall.

Just that, at this stage of a player's youth experience, starting at the bottom and winning promotion doesn't make sense...given the team's objectives.

Even if we had opted for that route, we would at best be eligible for D2 CL the u18/19 year.

This is a prime example of the oligopoly in NTX soccer. Let competition decide on who should go where and stop the entitlement of bigger clubs.

Real Barcelona wrote:This is a prime example of the oligopoly in NTX soccer. Let competition decide on who should go where and stop the entitlement of bigger clubs.

i really don't like arguing for the big guys but if it is a rule then everyone has to meet the rule.....

soccerisgood123 wrote:

Real Barcelona wrote:This is a prime example of the oligopoly in NTX soccer. Let competition decide on who should go where and stop the entitlement of bigger clubs.

i really don't like arguing for the big guys but if it is a rule then everyone has to meet the rule.....

Good point and I agree.

Except that when you change the rules 'after the fact', this is what you get.

And that seems to be the MO with NTX soccer.

futbolfiend wrote:So just when you thought we had disappeared (all eyes can start rolling now) ETX finds themselves in yet another case of "**** You ETX" this time courtesy of the fine folks at Solar and FCD who threatened to drop from State Cup if we were allowed to remain in the field.

Of course once again (foolishly) we actually relied on the language posted on the NTX web site which shows we are eligible to participate send in our money and are accepted. For whatever reason (our results at Bobby Rhine should show we aren't a threat to that many teams) FCD and Solar pull out the USYSA rule book and buried in there is something about playing in a league.. THe rule is legit so no complaints there and we should have known about it when the season started because all it would have taken is to play 3 measely games against some rec teams out here in ETX so as to meet the stupid rule. We are in an amateur league against Adults in ETX and NTX could if they wanted to use those games as our qualifiers. To the Youth commissioner of NTX you know who butters your bread so by all means continue to be the lapdog that you are for the Dallas megaclubs. I look forward to the future when USSDA US Club and the wave of residential academies that will spring up across the country push USYSA and NTX soccer further into irrelevancy for anything other than rec and adult league

That's a shame Fiend. They'll accept some lapdog from plano but no you guys. The fine folks who runs solar, fcd, et al are the biggest bunch of girl parts there is and are the biggest problem with soccer development in NTX. They don't want to fix a system that lines their pockets with money for the future of U.S. soccer. Biggest bunch of crybabies in soccer. They make Ronaldo and his flopping look like no big deal

soccerisgood123 wrote:Normally i would say that sucks and those are the rules. But i am uneasy as to why the big clubs would go to so much trouble to bar you. It does make them seem afraid of your team.

exactly. they take dooshy and petty to a whole new level.

Laimport wrote:Good point and I agree.

Except that when you change the rules 'after the fact', this is what you get.

And that seems to be the MO with NTX soccer.

Wow! So you're saying NTX managed to actually change the USYSA rule book in an effort to exclude you guys? That's shocking.

Though an entirely untrue statement based on nothing more than your hurt feelings.

Sucks you guys aren't going to be able to play in the State Cup but it seems that if you'd spent more time understanding the rules as they apply to everyone and thinking about the consequences of the decisions your team made (not playing Plano Labor Day, not playing in an NTX league, not playing in any league for that matter), you'd be in a far better position at this point than you are.

As you stated, all you had to do was play in a league and you wouldn't have the problem you are presently facing. Your own lack of foresight caused this, not NTX soccer changing the rules on you.

And while you might publicly state that you take responsiblility, your team, or at least representatives of your team, sure have done a lot of crying on this forum this season.

soccerisgood123 wrote:Thought about it some more and since this is the state cup and not the st patrick day warmup tournament or some small potatoes tournament, I think they are much more heavily invested in making sure no team that has not met all qualifications is allowed in.

Intelligent comment.

Has anyone researched the consequences (because I am sure there are some) of having ineligible teams in the tournament?

Wouldn't it suck to win the tournament and find out your invite to Regionals wasn't valid because an ineligible team played? Could very easily happen (though I haven't been through the USYSA rule book, as I have no reason to, so can't say what the consequences may or may not actually be). But I could easily envision penalties for non-compliance. Could easily see that potentially not sitting well with any team that actually has something to lose.

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:Good point and I agree.

Except that when you change the rules 'after the fact', this is what you get.

And that seems to be the MO with NTX soccer.

Wow! So you're saying NTX managed to actually change the USYSA rule book in an effort to exclude you guys? That's shocking.

Though an entirely untrue statement based on nothing more than your hurt feelings.

Sucks you guys aren't going to be able to play in the State Cup but it seems that if you'd spent more time understanding the rules as they apply to everyone and thinking about the consequences of the decisions your team made (not playing Plano Labor Day, not playing in an NTX league, not playing in any league for that matter), you'd be in a far better position at this point than you are.

As you stated, all you had to do was play in a league and you wouldn't have the problem you are presently facing. Your own lack of foresight caused this, not NTX soccer changing the rules on you.

And while you might publicly state that you take responsiblility, your team, or at least representatives of your team, sure have done a lot of crying on this forum this season.

Dragon you need to keep up a little better. If you followed the whole thread what he said is they were accepted, then NTX changed their mind because a 3rd party complained. The USYSA rule that was envoked is not on their web site for the tournament. The NTX site states

REQUIREMENTS TO ENTER THIS TOURNAMENT
Any U11 or older youth team registered with North Texas State Soccer is eligible to enter, if all registered players were at least 10 years old by July 31, 2012.

There is no link to USYSA or mention of any other rules or qualifiers. I too believe in doing due diligence but it is NTX that dropped the ball here. This is a stupid rule. According to the statement above I could enter a rec team.

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:Good point and I agree.

Except that when you change the rules 'after the fact', this is what you get.

And that seems to be the MO with NTX soccer.

Wow! So you're saying NTX managed to actually change the USYSA rule book in an effort to exclude you guys? That's shocking.

Though an entirely untrue statement based on nothing more than your hurt feelings.

Sucks you guys aren't going to be able to play in the State Cup but it seems that if you'd spent more time understanding the rules as they apply to everyone and thinking about the consequences of the decisions your team made (not playing Plano Labor Day, not playing in an NTX league, not playing in any league for that matter), you'd be in a far better position at this point than you are.

As you stated, all you had to do was play in a league and you wouldn't have the problem you are presently facing. Your own lack of foresight caused this, not NTX soccer changing the rules on you.

And while you might publicly state that you take responsiblility, your team, or at least representatives of your team, sure have done a lot of crying on this forum this season.

Wow! What an astute observation on your part!

Except you are wrong. The NTX website clearly stated that "any and all teams u11-u19 are eligible" as long as they are registered thru NTX soccer."

Didn't say jack squat about a stipulation concerning playing in a 'sanctioned league'.

Isn't usys based in DFW? Frisco?

Yeah, I am NOW aware that the usys rule demands participation in a league.

Don't you think that a governing body should have the rules and entrance requirements posted?

Especially before taking a check and accepting a team?

Bottom line is the big boys threatened to pull out of state cup...unless we were kicked out.

Again, how are we to know what the 'rules' are if they are not written?

So, it's either incompetence or politics...which is it dragonstryker?