ETX Premier Accepted then Rejected for State Cup

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:

I finished up yesterday. And yet you keep hurling personal insults.

Like I said, you are entitled to you ropinion..but I'm not going to be personally insulted.

And you crossed that line yesterday.

Like I said, you can introduce yourself next month. Instead of hurling personal insults from some cubicle.

It's easy to have big balls hiding behind some avatar.

I hope you have dental coverage!

Threats of violence.

About what I would expect.

I'll tell you what I expect.

I EXPECT people to disagree.

What I will NOT tolerate is being personally insulted.

Not from you or anyone else.

All I'm saying is that calling someone stupid and assaulting someone's charcter, intelligence, etc. is crossing the line.

It is the mark of a coward.

You mean like calling the people who run North Texas "incompetent" and "grossly negligent"?

crazyET wrote:

Laimport wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:

Laimport wrote:

I finished up yesterday. And yet you keep hurling personal insults.

Like I said, you are entitled to you ropinion..but I'm not going to be personally insulted.

And you crossed that line yesterday.

Like I said, you can introduce yourself next month. Instead of hurling personal insults from some cubicle.

It's easy to have big balls hiding behind some avatar.

I hope you have dental coverage!

Apples and oranges.

NTX proved it by taking ETP's money, accepting the team and then, after some complaints rescinded their offer.



Threats of violence.

About what I would expect.

I'll tell you what I expect.

I EXPECT people to disagree.

What I will NOT tolerate is being personally insulted.

Not from you or anyone else.

All I'm saying is that calling someone stupid and assaulting someone's charcter, intelligence, etc. is crossing the line.

It is the mark of a coward.

You mean like calling the people who run North Texas "incompetent" and "grossly negligent"?

Apples and oranges. We applied, were accepted, and the check was cashed.

My point is that they should know their own rules. Not expect teams applying to do their own research.

That's way different than going on a forum and calling/implying someone is stupid.

crazyET wrote:

Dragon you need to keep up a little better. If you followed the whole thread what he said is they were accepted, then NTX changed their mind because a 3rd party complained. The USYSA rule that was envoked is not on their web site for the tournament. The NTX site states

REQUIREMENTS TO ENTER THIS TOURNAMENT
Any U11 or older youth team registered with North Texas State Soccer is eligible to enter, if all registered players were at least 10 years old by July 31, 2012.

There is no link to USYSA or mention of any other rules or qualifiers. I too believe in doing due diligence but it is NTX that dropped the ball here. This is a stupid rule. According to the statement above I could enter a rec team.[/quote]
EXACTLY!! All the more reason ETX Premier should have done their homework because the limited information given on the website was sketchy and ridiculous at best. Certainly North Texas didn't mean to make State Cup open to Rec Teams.[/quote]

"because the limited information given on the website was sketch and ridiculous at best"

There it is! You just summed it up.

Hence my earlier comment about someone at NTX practicing gross negligence and incompetence"...

[quote="Rooneyhasplugs"]

DragonStryker wrote:You've resorted to threats of violence over a debate about a child's game and you're calling me a coward. That's rich. Think about that for a moment and what it says about you and your character. You've resorted to threats of violence over a debate about a child's game.

Had a nice long reply typed out but it's seriously not worth it.

A child's game, this is a child's game and you're so worked up that you're threatening violence.

And we wonder what's wrong with this country.




There's a lot of irony and ignorance in your comment. Sure the comment about having dental insurance could be seen as a veiled threat but at the same time you are being a Richard Cabeza.

I'm really more asshole than dickhead.

Laimport:

We will just have to disagree on this one. I'm sorry but the language that you misquoted ('sketchy' not 'sketch') from my earlier post doesn't prove your point. The only point "sketchy information" proves is that the phrase "any team" on the tournament website that you and Fiend keep reciting cannot possibly mean what you interpreted it to mean and, therefore, more digging was in order. Here is the exact language:

"Any U11 or older youth team registered with North Texas State Soccer is eligible
to enter, if all registered players were at least 10 years old by July 31, 2012"

Rec teams are "registered with North Texas" and no one, including you, seems to believe a rec team could participate in State Cup, correct? So, it can't possibly mean literally "any team."

Further, the Tournament Page has the following Title: "US Youth Soccer 2013 North Texas State Cup Tournament" (color emphasis added). Immediately to the left of that title is the "US Youth Soccer National Championship Series" logo prominently displayed. Following the Title, Logos, Dates, and Applied Teams List, you can find the following language:

"The winner of the US Youth Soccer North Texas Soccer State
Cup in U13-U19 age groups will represent North Texas Soccer in the 2013
US Youth Soccer Southern Regionals Championships . . . "
(color emphasis added).

The above language appears well-before you get to the offending language "any team." Clearly, the tournament is a USYS sanctioned tournament subject to its rules.

Finally, you are also entirely wrong about there not being a link to USYS or its rules. I will break it down for you:

1. Click the "To Register" Button on the State Cup Tournament Page -- this takes you to North Texas Event Application (now closed);
2. Click the "Event Website" Button on the Application page -- this takes you directly to the North Texas homepage which has a link to US Youth Soccer at the very top right hand corner of the page;
3. Click the US Youth Soccer Link mentioned above-- this will take you to usyouthsoccer.org, the official website of US Youth Soccer;
4. Under the "Administrators" tab, you will find a link for "Bylaws and Policies";
5. Click the "Bylaws and Policies"-- the very first downloadable PDF is "Policy on US Youth Soccer National Championships" dated Sep 13, 2012;
6. That Policy explictly governing each state's "State Cup" and each Region's "Regional Qualifier" contains the following language under Part II:

Rule 221. TEAM ELIGIBILITY
Section 1. The National Championships competitions shall be open to any team
whose players are registered with US Youth Soccer through a State Association
if the team is in compliance with all of the following requirements:

(4) The team must compete in at least a 4-team approved league
during the current seasonal year in its State Association . . . The league
competition must consist of a minimum of one game against each of 3 different
teams participating in the league. . . (color and bold emphasis added)

You can also get there from the scrolling "US Youth Soccer National League titles still to be claimed on final day" in the US Youth Soccer News section in the middle of the page. These links are on top of the no less than 4 references on North Texas' tournament page to US Youth Soccer.

So, it seems that, contrary to your assertion above,there were plenty of fair warning and links to the very offending rule you complain of, starting with the tournament page and working backward from there. All the links you needed to find this so called "after the fact" rule were on the North Texas Application Page.

Negligence has a very narrow definition--doing that which a reasonably prudent person would not have done(or the failure to do something that a prudent person would have done) under the same or similar circumstances. Gross negligence is even more narrow -- negligence committed with malice aforethought or with reckless disregard for the harm that is reasonably likely to occur. Abbreviated version, for sure, but you get the idea. Are you seriously arguing that North Texas knew or had reason to know that you would apply when they posted its arguably inadequate eligiblity statement or that Solar/FCD would then complain to get you kicked out. As you well know, tournament webpages are not always perfect and mistakes may have to be later corrected, but that doesn't make it negliegent, grossly negligent, or even incompetent.

I personally don't feel that anyone was "stupid", "unintelligent", "incompetent", or "grossly negligent" in this situation. Sure mistakes were made--i.e. North Texas accepted your money (probably not realizing you were a tournament only team and not in any league) only to have to later say "oops" and ETX Premier erroneously read "any team" to mean literally "any team" (despite the ludicrousness of that interpretation) rather than "any team" as defined in, and subject to, the eligibility requirements set forth in the Bylaws, and also failed to click the proper and available links to tell them what those requirements were and which teams were eligible to compete. Is it a plot or conspiracy to intentionally or recklessly harm ETX Premier? I don't think so and I'm usually right there with you in thinking anyone east of Mesquite or West of Fort Worth generally gets the shaft from North Texas.

Sorry you won't get to compete. I know you said it would not benefit your team to be in a league but why not register in Tyler Open League, play three games (forfeit the rest if they conflict with your chosen tournaments), and play in State Cup next year?

[quote="DragonStryker"]

Rooneyhasplugs wrote:

DragonStryker wrote:You've resorted to threats of violence over a debate about a child's game and you're calling me a coward. That's rich. Think about that for a moment and what it says about you and your character. You've resorted to threats of violence over a debate about a child's game.

Had a nice long reply typed out but it's seriously not worth it.

A child's game, this is a child's game and you're so worked up that you're threatening violence.

And we wonder what's wrong with this country.




There's a lot of irony and ignorance in your comment. Sure the comment about having dental insurance could be seen as a veiled threat but at the same time you are being a Richard Cabeza.

I'm really more asshole than dickhead.

I have been called a 'tool'. But I thought it was a compliment..lol!

CrazyET...you make a compelling argument. Like I said though, the mistake may have been ours not to have been more thorough. But the same can and should be said for NTX.

Without going into great detail, we did hear that some folks made a big stink about ETP being accepted.

I respect and understand the league requirement. I have already mentioned this.

And I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I do have to believe that the big clubs run (control is a better word) NTX soccer.

And they sure don't like anyone that is independent and/or from the east.

One other quick point.

Playing in the Tyler Open league would take away from other tournaments out of state.

The team plays in an adult hispanic league and that suit our needs better anyway.

Besides, I have a feeling that even if we did play in the TOL, they would still find a way to disqualify us from state cup.

Now, that's just my opinion. But based on past experience.

Laimport wrote:One other quick point.

Playing in the Tyler Open league would take away from other tournaments out of state.

The team plays in an adult hispanic league and that suit our needs better anyway.

Besides, I have a feeling that even if we did play in the TOL, they would still find a way to disqualify us from state cup.

Now, that's just my opinion. But based on past experience.

My point was simply that Tyler Open League is a competitive league already sanctioned/approved by North Texas, unlike your hispanic adult league that would require special permission from North Texas (and thus more wiggle room). NT would be hard-pressed to ever say TOL didn't meet the letter of the bylaws regarding team eligibility, which are pretty clear. They would really have to go back and change the rules after the fact by disapproving a league already sanctioned and then you would have a truly legitimate complaint. All the rule requires is playing three league games in a league approved by the state organization, so you could play when your schedule permitted and forfeit the rest. Surely you're not playing out of state tournaments every weekend and could get 3 games in. Who cares if you don't win the league? Nobody views TOL as a "real league" anyway.

One other thing I didn't address in my previous post that I meant to: EastTexasSoccer's post compared President's Cup and North Texas' decision to let you play there twice to this State Cup situation. I think that is really an "apples to oranges" comparison, to borrow your phrase, as the offending rule is in the bylaws for the National Championship Tournament, not in some obscure, general USYS rule book applicable to all USYS events. Although admittedly, they probably erroneously let you in that one as well based on what is posted on the tournament page for that tournament under "Requirements to Enter this Tournament":

"Teams must play in a recognized NTSSA Competitive League."

That simple statement on the State Cup page might have avoided this whole fiasco. But the above clear as day requirement on President's Cup brings up another question--if all State Cup had to do was tell you that you had to play in a league and you wouldn't have entered, why did you register for President's Cup with the very language you think North Texas should have included? You ignored it there, who's to say you wouldn't have ignored it for State Cup.

crazyET wrote:Laimport:

We will just have to disagree on this one. I'm sorry but the language that you misquoted ('sketchy' not 'sketch') from my earlier post doesn't prove your point. The only point "sketchy information" proves is that the phrase "any team" on the tournament website that you and Fiend keep reciting cannot possibly mean what you interpreted it to mean and, therefore, more digging was in order. Here is the exact language:

"Any U11 or older youth team registered with North Texas State Soccer is eligible
to enter, if all registered players were at least 10 years old by July 31, 2012"

Rec teams are "registered with North Texas" and no one, including you, seems to believe a rec team could participate in State Cup, correct? So, it can't possibly mean literally "any team."

Further, the Tournament Page has the following Title: "US Youth Soccer 2013 North Texas State Cup Tournament" (color emphasis added). Immediately to the left of that title is the "US Youth Soccer National Championship Series" logo prominently displayed. Following the Title, Logos, Dates, and Applied Teams List, you can find the following language:

"The winner of the US Youth Soccer North Texas Soccer State
Cup in U13-U19 age groups will represent North Texas Soccer in the 2013
US Youth Soccer Southern Regionals Championships . . . "
(color emphasis added).

The above language appears well-before you get to the offending language "any team." Clearly, the tournament is a USYS sanctioned tournament subject to its rules.

Finally, you are also entirely wrong about there not being a link to USYS or its rules. I will break it down for you:

1. Click the "To Register" Button on the State Cup Tournament Page -- this takes you to North Texas Event Application (now closed);
2. Click the "Event Website" Button on the Application page -- this takes you directly to the North Texas homepage which has a link to US Youth Soccer at the very top right hand corner of the page;
3. Click the US Youth Soccer Link mentioned above-- this will take you to usyouthsoccer.org, the official website of US Youth Soccer;
4. Under the "Administrators" tab, you will find a link for "Bylaws and Policies";
5. Click the "Bylaws and Policies"-- the very first downloadable PDF is "Policy on US Youth Soccer National Championships" dated Sep 13, 2012;
6. That Policy explictly governing each state's "State Cup" and each Region's "Regional Qualifier" contains the following language under Part II:

Rule 221. TEAM ELIGIBILITY
Section 1. The National Championships competitions shall be open to any team
whose players are registered with US Youth Soccer through a State Association
if the team is in compliance with all of the following requirements:

(4) The team must compete in at least a 4-team approved league
during the current seasonal year in its State Association . . . The league
competition must consist of a minimum of one game against each of 3 different
teams participating in the league. . . (color and bold emphasis added)

You can also get there from the scrolling "US Youth Soccer National League titles still to be claimed on final day" in the US Youth Soccer News section in the middle of the page. These links are on top of the no less than 4 references on North Texas' tournament page to US Youth Soccer.

So, it seems that, contrary to your assertion above,there were plenty of fair warning and links to the very offending rule you complain of, starting with the tournament page and working backward from there. All the links you needed to find this so called "after the fact" rule were on the North Texas Application Page.

Negligence has a very narrow definition--doing that which a reasonably prudent person would not have done(or the failure to do something that a prudent person would have done) under the same or similar circumstances. Gross negligence is even more narrow -- negligence committed with malice aforethought or with reckless disregard for the harm that is reasonably likely to occur. Abbreviated version, for sure, but you get the idea. Are you seriously arguing that North Texas knew or had reason to know that you would apply when they posted its arguably inadequate eligiblity statement or that Solar/FCD would then complain to get you kicked out. As you well know, tournament webpages are not always perfect and mistakes may have to be later corrected, but that doesn't make it negliegent, grossly negligent, or even incompetent.

I personally don't feel that anyone was "stupid", "unintelligent", "incompetent", or "grossly negligent" in this situation. Sure mistakes were made--i.e. North Texas accepted your money (probably not realizing you were a tournament only team and not in any league) only to have to later say "oops" and ETX Premier erroneously read "any team" to mean literally "any team" (despite the ludicrousness of that interpretation) rather than "any team" as defined in, and subject to, the eligibility requirements set forth in the Bylaws, and also failed to click the proper and available links to tell them what those requirements were and which teams were eligible to compete. Is it a plot or conspiracy to intentionally or recklessly harm ETX Premier? I don't think so and I'm usually right there with you in thinking anyone east of Mesquite or West of Fort Worth generally gets the shaft from North Texas.

Sorry you won't get to compete. I know you said it would not benefit your team to be in a league but why not register in Tyler Open League, play three games (forfeit the rest if they conflict with your chosen tournaments), and play in State Cup next year?

Crazy ET is smart guys....listen to him. This is a funny thread..

crazyET wrote:

Laimport wrote:One other quick point.

Playing in the Tyler Open league would take away from other tournaments out of state.

The team plays in an adult hispanic league and that suit our needs better anyway.

Besides, I have a feeling that even if we did play in the TOL, they would still find a way to disqualify us from state cup.

Now, that's just my opinion. But based on past experience.

My point was simply that Tyler Open League is a competitive league already sanctioned/approved by North Texas, unlike your hispanic adult league that would require special permission from North Texas (and thus more wiggle room). NT would be hard-pressed to ever say TOL didn't meet the letter of the bylaws regarding team eligibility, which are pretty clear. They would really have to go back and change the rules after the fact by disapproving a league already sanctioned and then you would have a truly legitimate complaint. All the rule requires is playing three league games in a league approved by the state organization, so you could play when your schedule permitted and forfeit the rest. Surely you're not playing out of state tournaments every weekend and could get 3 games in. Who cares if you don't win the league? Nobody views TOL as a "real league" anyway.

One other thing I didn't address in my previous post that I meant to: EastTexasSoccer's post compared President's Cup and North Texas' decision to let you play there twice to this State Cup situation. I think that is really an "apples to oranges" comparison, to borrow your phrase, as the offending rule is in the bylaws for the National Championship Tournament, not in some obscure, general USYS rule book applicable to all USYS events.

I agree in that the President's Cup offers more flexibility within the rules. At least to my understanding.

I'm not going to argue with that.

Probably too late (due to many variables) for the TOL option this season.

Further, TOL just doesn't tie in well with the coach's plans and overall philosophy.

Now, if he decides to go that route, I'll support his decision.

Also try to understand that our team's resources are limited to a degree.

We have to find the right mix of challenge and exposure (the whole point really) for our players.

Again ET, I don't disagree with what you are saying. Just understand that our choices are somewhat limited.

The main purpose of this team is to develop players and find next level opportunities for as many of them as possible.

And so far, we have had success on both counts.

ET, the President's Cup language/misinterpretation 'issue' happened before my time.

So, I can't offer an explanation.

That would have to come from the coach.

[quote="Laimport"][quote="crazyET"]

Laimport wrote:The main purpose of this team is to develop players and find next level opportunities for as many of them as possible.

And so far, we have had success on both counts.

So, how come you did not show up to the FC Dallas College Showcase 2 weekends ago?
Was it because there were no easy Got Soccer points involved?
The Showcase had 70+ Men's College Coaches.
What tournament/showcase have you done where there was more?

And how come you never talked about ETX's participation in the Arlington College Showcase back in December where you lost 2 and tied one to all D3 teams?

Just trying for 11 pages again

The decision not to participate in the FCD Showcase was made due to the HS soccer schedule in the ETX area and the coach had a family obligation. As for the lack of success in the Arlington Showcase; we were down (3) starters from the Shreveport area due to the start of their district play that weekend and a injury to another starter. And to be honest; all three teams we played are quality teams and very well coached.

Showcase of The South (Little Rock) had just as many coaches in attendance back in Jan when we went and competed. Actually several playes have received INVITATION ONLY to several College ID Camps for this summer.

I do not sign ETP up for JUST gotsoccer points tournaments; I try to sign up for tournaments that have good competition (historically)...(ex: DT Fall Festival & State Cup)

I say that we all just leave this State Cup issue alone; as I have accepted that we cannot compete.

Good luck to ALL players/parents/coaches this SPRING SEASON. If the weather permits we're headed to the John Talley Showcase this weekend in Memphis...

[quote="mspan02"][quote="Laimport"]

crazyET wrote:

Laimport wrote:The main purpose of this team is to develop players and find next level opportunities for as many of them as possible.

And so far, we have had success on both counts.

So, how come you did not show up to the FC Dallas College Showcase 2 weekends ago?
Was it because there were no easy Got Soccer points involved?
The Showcase had 70+ Men's College Coaches.
What tournament/showcase have you done where there was more?

And how come you never talked about ETX's participation in the Arlington College Showcase back in December where you lost 2 and tied one to all D3 teams?

Just trying for 11 pages again

wasn't there. maybe that's why.