How do you feel about guest player?

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Real Barcelona wrote:Size does not matter.

so the 5'9" player with exact same skills and speed etc, doesn't have a playing advantage over 5'3" soccer player? really? now if the "context" you are referring to is that big and tall people can play great soccer too: i agree

really? So Landon Donovan is a better player than Xavi or Iniesta because he is faster? And taller?

Again, you are assuming all other things are equal. They aren't.

And again, you are placing way too much emphasis on the wrong variable.

As well as assuming Adrian Peterson, Michael Vick...blah, blah are better athletes to begin with.

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Perhaps your definition of Athlete is different than mine. For me when someone mentions a great athlete, I think of Mental and Physical. The thing that seperates ATF and Basketball athletes from soccer players are when I think of overall physical attributes such as HT/WT/strength/jumping ability while still being just as fast/quick as a smaller soccer athlete.

My last statement honestly doesnt refer to ATF nor BasketBall players, it just means that ALOT of our best athletes player other sports(meaning ATF, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or any other sport) simply because the US has so many other sports that play a major role in our society and our athletes are vastly dispersed among all the different sports.

As for your last sentence, if we really wanted to, its easy for the US to get the developmental coaching if that is our priority. From talking to people from other parts of the world. Everyone that I talked to wants to be in America. Coaching is something we can get if we really want the best of the best soccer coaches in the US...

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Perhaps your definition of Athlete is different than mine. For me when someone mentions a great athlete, I think of Menta and Physical. The thing that seperates ATF and Basketball athletes from soccer players are when I think of overall physical attributes such as HT/WT/strength/jumping ability while still being just as fast/quick as a smaller soccer athlete.

My last statement honestly doesnt refer to ATF nor BasketBall players, it just means that ALOT of our best athletes player other sports(meaning ATF, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or any other sport) simply because the US has so many other sports that play a major role in our society and our athletes are vastly dispersed among all the different sports.

As for your last sentence, if we really wanted to, its easy for the US to get the developmental coaching if that is our priority. From talking to people from other parts of the world. Everyone that I talked to wants to be in America. Coaching is something we can get if we really want the best of the best soccer coaches in the US...

Height and weight are not overriding considerations when evaluating soccer talent. They are minor. Some world class strikers are exceptionally short. Some are exceptionally tall.

Defenders also vary in size. Even amongst the world class players.

Agree that the coaching issues can be fixed. But that requires a change in mindset. Just as the existing 'mindset' related to what goes into the DNA of an elite soccer player.

Now speed, quickness and agility are transferable. That said, technical ability alone also does not determine ultimate success...but it helps.

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Perhaps your definition of Athlete is different than mine. For me when someone mentions a great athlete, I think of Menta and Physical. The thing that seperates ATF and Basketball athletes from soccer players are when I think of overall physical attributes such as HT/WT/strength/jumping ability while still being just as fast/quick as a smaller soccer athlete.

My last statement honestly doesnt refer to ATF nor BasketBall players, it just means that ALOT of our best athletes player other sports(meaning ATF, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or any other sport) simply because the US has so many other sports that play a major role in our society and our athletes are vastly dispersed among all the different sports.

As for your last sentence, if we really wanted to, its easy for the US to get the developmental coaching if that is our priority. From talking to people from other parts of the world. Everyone that I talked to wants to be in America. Coaching is something we can get if we really want the best of the best soccer coaches in the US...

Height and weight are not overriding considerations when evaluating soccer talent. They are minor. Some world class strikers are exceptionally short. Some are exceptionally tall.

Defenders also vary in size. Even amongst the world class players.

Agree that the coaching issues can be fixed. But that requires a change in mindset. Just as the existing 'mindset' related to what goes into the DNA of an elite soccer player.

Now speed, quickness and agility are transferable. That said, technical ability alone also does not determine ultimate success...but it helps.

Basically, lets just say if you can scientifically engineer and build the perfect athlete. Wouldnt you want a more athletic(faster/quicker/stronger/etc) Lebron James? If Lebron trains as hard for Soccer as he did for bball because it was the only sport he knew (non of the other major sports existed). U dont think Lebron would be good in Soccer?

When I think about best athlete in the World... I think of Lebron James due to all his physical attributes...

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Perhaps your definition of Athlete is different than mine. For me when someone mentions a great athlete, I think of Menta and Physical. The thing that seperates ATF and Basketball athletes from soccer players are when I think of overall physical attributes such as HT/WT/strength/jumping ability while still being just as fast/quick as a smaller soccer athlete.

My last statement honestly doesnt refer to ATF nor BasketBall players, it just means that ALOT of our best athletes player other sports(meaning ATF, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or any other sport) simply because the US has so many other sports that play a major role in our society and our athletes are vastly dispersed among all the different sports.

As for your last sentence, if we really wanted to, its easy for the US to get the developmental coaching if that is our priority. From talking to people from other parts of the world. Everyone that I talked to wants to be in America. Coaching is something we can get if we really want the best of the best soccer coaches in the US...

Height and weight are not overriding considerations when evaluating soccer talent. They are minor. Some world class strikers are exceptionally short. Some are exceptionally tall.

Defenders also vary in size. Even amongst the world class players.

Agree that the coaching issues can be fixed. But that requires a change in mindset. Just as the existing 'mindset' related to what goes into the DNA of an elite soccer player.

Now speed, quickness and agility are transferable. That said, technical ability alone also does not determine ultimate success...but it helps.

Basically, lets just say if you can scientifically engineer and build the perfect athlete. Wouldnt you want a more athletic(faster/quicker/stronger/etc) Lebron James? If Lebron trains as hard for Soccer as he did for bball because it was the only sport he knew (non of the other major sports existed). U dont think Lebron would be good in Soccer?

When I think about best athlete in the World... I think of Lebron James due to all his physical attributes...

   

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Perhaps your definition of Athlete is different than mine. For me when someone mentions a great athlete, I think of Menta and Physical. The thing that seperates ATF and Basketball athletes from soccer players are when I think of overall physical attributes such as HT/WT/strength/jumping ability while still being just as fast/quick as a smaller soccer athlete.

My last statement honestly doesnt refer to ATF nor BasketBall players, it just means that ALOT of our best athletes player other sports(meaning ATF, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or any other sport) simply because the US has so many other sports that play a major role in our society and our athletes are vastly dispersed among all the different sports.

As for your last sentence, if we really wanted to, its easy for the US to get the developmental coaching if that is our priority. From talking to people from other parts of the world. Everyone that I talked to wants to be in America. Coaching is something we can get if we really want the best of the best soccer coaches in the US...

Height and weight are not overriding considerations when evaluating soccer talent. They are minor. Some world class strikers are exceptionally short. Some are exceptionally tall.

Defenders also vary in size. Even amongst the world class players.

Agree that the coaching issues can be fixed. But that requires a change in mindset. Just as the existing 'mindset' related to what goes into the DNA of an elite soccer player.

Now speed, quickness and agility are transferable. That said, technical ability alone also does not determine ultimate success...but it helps.

Basically, lets just say if you can scientifically engineer and build the perfect athlete. Wouldnt you want a more athletic(faster/quicker/stronger/etc) Lebron James? If Lebron trains as hard for Soccer as he did for bball because it was the only sport he knew (non of the other major sports existed). U dont think Lebron would be good in Soccer?

When I think about best athlete in the World... I think of Lebron James due to all his physical attributes...

LeBron is probably the worst example you could give. And I think LeBron is a great basketball player. But c'mon...he's 6"9

LMAO he said lebron and soccer.

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

Laimport wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

Laimport wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Here is my take on this whole ATF and American Soccer..... If it wasnt for Basketball/Football and all our athletes were to become Soccer players, we would dominate the world.

-We have the best athletes in the world.
-We also have the best training facilities in the world.
-We have the population, money, nutrition/research and development to be best in the world.

Soccer is basically a skills game which having great athletic ability can help tremendously.

Skills can always be acquired through hard work and training and repetition. Athletic ability can also be increased but is limited. If our best athletes love the sport and train and acquire the skills, no doubt we would be the best soccer nation.

Most soccer players probably cant play ATF/basketball but our best athletes in ATF/Basketball can/could play Soccer and be great at it because its about skills which can be aquired.

And what do you base this assumption on?
How many 6"5, 230lb. soccer players do you see in the Champions League?

Do you really think that a 4.3 40 or a 350lb. bench press is what's keeping the US from dominating?

U honestly dont think that if we had all our best football athletes like M.Vick, A.Peterson, Patrick Peterson, Desean Jackson, etc.. And trained them in soccer with good soccer coaches since they were little that these guys couldnt have become soccer star?  

i know for a fact they could have trained and become soccer stars. the nay sayers will say one is to tall, another is not smart enough..... lmao

You know for a fact huh? Please, enlighten us.

I STAND CORRECTED LAIMPORT... fact is to concise. i argue thats it is at least probable. why can't you even admit that?

I think I did admit that, sir. I'm only trying to make two points.

That being 6'2 (or whatever) and running a 4.3 40 (or whatever benchmark) doesn't automatically equate to being an elite (professional) or especially world class soccer player.

It's apples and oranges.

Second, how do you know some kid that could have (or was at youth level) that may have been an elite atf or basketball player choose soccer over everything else?

it's just too vague and invites too much speculation about what could've or should've been when you compare two vastly different skill and athletic requirements (in addition to the other components) of one sport vs another.

All I'm really saying is that, even getting a few of these athletes you cited would not automatically make the US better at soccer.

 

If the US concentrated all its energy into Soccer like it does for Football.. Theres no doubt in my mind US would be far superior to any country because of all the advantages I listed before.... We have the best athletes in the world. Go look at the Olympics, we own the world in metal count because we have the best athletes, best facilities, best nutrition, etc..... Alot of the events in Olympics is also based on skill along with athletic ability.

And the metal count isnt even close.. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table

The fact that MOST of our best athletes are playing other sports, and our US Soccer team is already this good based on our current US Team says something about the US.

Completely agree with your first paragraph. if soccer was the number one sport (I mean in terms of financial support as well as more participation...especially at older ages) then yes, we probably would be a top 3 or 4. No question.

Now on the Olympic medal count...I think a lot of that is due to the sheer size of the country and the amount of money spent/invested. On a per capita basis, we underachieve in my opinion.

Now, even if more of our better athletes specialized in soccer. (Especially those that 'fit' the game) then yes it would make a difference...somewhat.

But again, you have to define what makes an "athlete" and then apply that to soccer specific attributes.

As good as Ibrahimovic is, he will never be the 1v1 dribbler that messi, ribery and iniesta are. Granted he is obviously stronger. But does that make him the best in the world? Most would say no.

What I would like to see are more of the 5"9-6"2 medium build (but quick and fast) kids that play basketball, baseball and throwball be converted to soccer players. (Because they fit the profile...and actually lack the size to play in the NBA/NFL...even though they are gifted athletes...exceptional high school players...ands be steered toward soccer.)

It's your last sentence that, yet again I disagree with. What criteria make the nfl/nba guys better athletes?

Because they are black? because they have impressive 40 times?

Using that logic, why aren't African countries' national teams ranked higher? because soccer is one of the only choices they have with team sports.

It's just an oversimplification to say that the reason the US isn't better is due to lack of gifted athletes.

Plus, it insults the soccer athletes.

Anyone can find isolated examples of soccer players that are physical specimens and being world class. And there certainly are skills that translate to other sports.

But the biggest shortcomings with the American game are lack of quality developmental coaching and the existing player pool not being devoted to the sport on a year round, daily basis.

Perhaps your definition of Athlete is different than mine. For me when someone mentions a great athlete, I think of Menta and Physical. The thing that seperates ATF and Basketball athletes from soccer players are when I think of overall physical attributes such as HT/WT/strength/jumping ability while still being just as fast/quick as a smaller soccer athlete.

My last statement honestly doesnt refer to ATF nor BasketBall players, it just means that ALOT of our best athletes player other sports(meaning ATF, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or any other sport) simply because the US has so many other sports that play a major role in our society and our athletes are vastly dispersed among all the different sports.

As for your last sentence, if we really wanted to, its easy for the US to get the developmental coaching if that is our priority. From talking to people from other parts of the world. Everyone that I talked to wants to be in America. Coaching is something we can get if we really want the best of the best soccer coaches in the US...

Height and weight are not overriding considerations when evaluating soccer talent. They are minor. Some world class strikers are exceptionally short. Some are exceptionally tall.

Defenders also vary in size. Even amongst the world class players.

Agree that the coaching issues can be fixed. But that requires a change in mindset. Just as the existing 'mindset' related to what goes into the DNA of an elite soccer player.

Now speed, quickness and agility are transferable. That said, technical ability alone also does not determine ultimate success...but it helps.

Basically, lets just say if you can scientifically engineer and build the perfect athlete. Wouldnt you want a more athletic(faster/quicker/stronger/etc) Lebron James? If Lebron trains as hard for Soccer as he did for bball because it was the only sport he knew (non of the other major sports existed). U dont think Lebron would be good in Soccer?

When I think about best athlete in the World... I think of Lebron James due to all his physical attributes...

if that were the case wouldn't he also be the best Tackle ball running back? he would be a beast as a goalie though  

Ummm just got a call from Lebron James and he asked if you guys would ease up. The extra weight is weighing down his sack

Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Just a thought. Does the US have a monopoly on 6'9" athletes? I wonder why in countries that soccer is the most popular sport those tall athletes chose to play something else? Basketball is popular in spain but not as much as soccer. I wonder how they convince all those kids to play roundball. Man if only they could get those guys to play soccer. Spain would dominate...oh wait...nevermind. I'm sorry, Please continue. If only the US had lebron and oh oh like Howard. Because really why do 6'9" when you can do 7'. Man we could dominate the world. Guess we can always dream

go99 wrote:Just a thought.  Does the US have a monopoly on 6'9" athletes?  I wonder why in countries that soccer is the most popular sport those tall athletes chose to play something else?  Basketball is popular in spain but not as much as soccer. I wonder how they convince all those kids to play roundball.  Man if only they could get those guys to play soccer.  Spain would dominate...oh wait...nevermind.  I'm sorry, Please continue.  If only the US had lebron and oh oh like Howard.  Because really why do 6'9" when you can do 7'.  Man we could dominate the world.  Guess we can always dream

Who is the most athletic 6'5 or taller Bball player from Europe? Yea Im sure hes a freak of nature, Dirk is by far the best BBall player from Europe and hes nothing to what I would consider a athletic player...

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact. He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA. He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all. At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA. Look at charlie ward. Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:Just a thought.  Does the US have a monopoly on 6'9" athletes?  I wonder why in countries that soccer is the most popular sport those tall athletes chose to play something else?  Basketball is popular in spain but not as much as soccer. I wonder how they convince all those kids to play roundball.  Man if only they could get those guys to play soccer.  Spain would dominate...oh wait...nevermind.  I'm sorry, Please continue.  If only the US had lebron and oh oh like Howard.  Because really why do 6'9" when you can do 7'.  Man we could dominate the world.  Guess we can always dream

Who is the most athletic 6'5 or taller Bball player from Europe? Yea Im sure hes a freak of nature...

Now a fact is europeans have an average height that is above americans. So are you saying they don't have as many tall people or are you saying that even thru random genes europe lacks the genetic material to produce an athlete over 6'5"? But to answer your question, how would I know? I don't watch european basketball.

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:Just a thought.  Does the US have a monopoly on 6'9" athletes?  I wonder why in countries that soccer is the most popular sport those tall athletes chose to play something else?  Basketball is popular in spain but not as much as soccer. I wonder how they convince all those kids to play roundball.  Man if only they could get those guys to play soccer.  Spain would dominate...oh wait...nevermind.  I'm sorry, Please continue.  If only the US had lebron and oh oh like Howard.  Because really why do 6'9" when you can do 7'.  Man we could dominate the world.  Guess we can always dream

Who is the most athletic 6'5 or taller Bball player from Europe? Yea Im sure hes a freak of nature...

Now a fact is europeans have an average height that is above americans.  So are you saying they don't have as many tall people or are you saying that even thru random genes europe lacks the genetic material to produce an athlete over 6'5"?  But to answer your question, how would I know?  I don't watch european basketball.

Basically my question to you is.... Why is it that the most athletic big/tall Bball players come from USA? Why is it that USA wins twice as many Medals as the 2nd closest country in the Olympics? Its because of  all the resources we have available us that other countries dont....

If you are talking about BBall, look at the hundreds of tall BBall players that come over from Europe.... Not one is even close to  Lebron/DHoward/Garnett in terms of athletic ability and that doesnt even include skills...

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer. What you are say IS the point. Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic. But they cannot be great at them all. The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport. The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth. It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure. "if only" the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

   

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

But also there are things like you aren't as good at soccer as you are another sport. Just because you have the pillow soft hands of a WR doesn't mean you have the soft feet of a soccer player. Just because you have the muscle structure and make up of an endurance athlete doesn't mean that if you work really hard you can be a sprinter. Just because all of those athletes were great in their sport does not mean that if they focused and worked really hard they could have been great at soccer. One of the reasons we fall short here in soccer is that while the rest of the world is looking for those "soccer" traits. We still love for that magical "athlete" that will change it all. And we ignore all of the things that are absolutely neccesary. Even in Development Academy I see so many kids with slow feet, bad touch, inabilty to control the ball with their feet. While you can improve those things they will never catch those eventual elite players who just posses those gifts. So they get falcao, neymar and we get altidore with bricks for feet.

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

But also there are things like you aren't as good at soccer as you are another sport.  Just because you have the pillow soft hands of a WR doesn't mean you have the soft feet of a soccer player.  Just because you have the muscle structure and make up of an endurance athlete doesn't mean that if you work really hard you can be a sprinter.  Just because all of those athletes were great in their sport does not mean that if they focused and worked really hard they could have been great at soccer.  One of the reasons we fall short here in soccer is that while the rest of the world is looking for those "soccer" traits.  We still love for that magical "athlete" that will change it all.  And we ignore all of the things that are absolutely  neccesary.  Even in Development Academy I see so many kids with slow feet, bad touch, inabilty to control the ball with their feet.  While you can improve those things they will never catch those eventual elite players who just posses those gifts.  So they get falcao, neymar and we get altidore with bricks for feet.

See thats the thing where I think you are wrong... As I said before, Soccer is more based on skill, if you work on it enough and really want it bad enough the skills will come ESPECIALLY if you are athletic. If you are athletic, any sport will be easier for you to grasp than someone less athletic than you at the same starting pt.

Honestly, whats the difference between learning to dribble a BBall and a Soccer ball? Its a learned skill, no one was ever born great at either of those skills. The more you practice at it the better you get at it. Gifts are guys like Lebron who are 6'8 250 ibs and can jump thru the roof and is as fast, quick and agile as 6 ft guys, those are gifts given to him in his genes.

It take time, dedication and sacrifice and you can master a skill.

Most of us work for a living, these are skills we picked up just like an athlete picking the skills necessary for their sport. I wasnt born as a programmer, when I was born, my parents didnt even know what programming was yet I became a programmer because of the skills I trained and worked for...

"Just because you have the muscle structure and make up of an endurance athlete doesn't mean that if you work really hard you can be a sprinter."  --- Yea, because u dont have the physical makeup to be a sprinter, its not a skill u can learn. I dont think you understand what I am trying to get at...

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

But also there are things like you aren't as good at soccer as you are another sport.  Just because you have the pillow soft hands of a WR doesn't mean you have the soft feet of a soccer player.  Just because you have the muscle structure and make up of an endurance athlete doesn't mean that if you work really hard you can be a sprinter.  Just because all of those athletes were great in their sport does not mean that if they focused and worked really hard they could have been great at soccer.  One of the reasons we fall short here in soccer is that while the rest of the world is looking for those "soccer" traits.  We still love for that magical "athlete" that will change it all.  And we ignore all of the things that are absolutely  neccesary.  Even in Development Academy I see so many kids with slow feet, bad touch, inabilty to control the ball with their feet.  While you can improve those things they will never catch those eventual elite players who just posses those gifts.  So they get falcao, neymar and we get altidore with bricks for feet.

because the slow footed kids dad can't buy his son a spot on the jr high bb team. that kid plays bb at the ymca. but in soccer its pay to play! so anyone with the money can and the one's without the money can't. we don't look for slow big brick footed people in america lol

soccerdadrandy wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

But also there are things like you aren't as good at soccer as you are another sport.  Just because you have the pillow soft hands of a WR doesn't mean you have the soft feet of a soccer player.  Just because you have the muscle structure and make up of an endurance athlete doesn't mean that if you work really hard you can be a sprinter.  Just because all of those athletes were great in their sport does not mean that if they focused and worked really hard they could have been great at soccer.  One of the reasons we fall short here in soccer is that while the rest of the world is looking for those "soccer" traits.  We still love for that magical "athlete" that will change it all.  And we ignore all of the things that are absolutely  neccesary.  Even in Development Academy I see so many kids with slow feet, bad touch, inabilty to control the ball with their feet.  While you can improve those things they will never catch those eventual elite players who just posses those gifts.  So they get falcao, neymar and we get altidore with bricks for feet.

because the slow footed kids dad can't buy his son a spot on the jr high bb team. that kid plays bb at the ymca. but in soccer its pay to play! so anyone with the money can and the one's without the money can't. we don't look for slow big brick footed people in america lol

So true, thats why I wouldnt doubt it if 99% of the USA NBA players have never even played organized soccer because most came from poor neighborhood/families. Unlike basketball courts, there isnt a ton of soccer fields out there free for anyone to play on, its not like kids can watch soccer on TV growing up and say "yes, I wanna be Pele when I grow up"...

AllPaoTeam wrote:

soccerdadrandy wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:

go99 wrote:

AllPaoTeam wrote:Maybe Lebron could be Jim Brown like as a RB in ATF since hes as big as Dlineman and faster/quicker than most LBs... Who knows but theres really no reason for him to want to play due to injuries so we will never know... He already makes plenty of money playing a sport where it doesnt tear down his body as fast....

Fact is former BBall players like Tony Gonzalez can dominate in the NFL and hes not close to the Athletic freak that Lebron is...

Thats not a fact.  He had okay BBall stats and certianly nothing that would have taken him to the NBA.  He played both in college so not a former basketball player at all.  At 6'5" he is a tall NFL player but would be a smaller shooting guard in the NBA.  Look at charlie ward.  Heisman trophy winner who went undrafted and then went on to a very nice NBA career.

Thats exactly what I am saying, Tony wanted to play BBall, he just couldnt, same with T/O.... Randy Moss was a great H.S. BBall player and chose to play football instead. I believe Moss was the 2nd ranked H.S, BBall player that year behind Kevin Garnett... Bball takes more skill, Football athletic ability can take you father without being great in the skills... Thats why alot of people think Lebron could be a good football player if he wanted to go play in the NFL...

But if he couldn't do BBall with his abundance of gifts what makes you think he would have been able to do soccer.  What you are say IS the point.  Great athletes can probably do about anything athletic.  But they cannot be great at them all.  The lucky ones not only have that gift but they find out the sport.  The "ultimate athlete" to play and dominate all is a myth.  It's a great story to make you fell better about your own failure.  "if only"  the US national team should put that on the back of their jerseys

Soccer is more skill based... Basketball is also skill based but HT helps alot, Tony is avg size for a BBall player which doesnt have the athletic ability nor skills of his peers. I never said Tony would be a great Soccer player either.. I dont even consider him a great athlete when compared to great athlete, he found a niche...... I dont consider any TE to be great athletes, when I think of great athletes in ATF, its usually the CBs/WRs/RB and some QBs... TEs are just smaller lineman who can catch... Thats just my opinion..

None of these great athletes would be great soccer players right now because they never made the effort or gave the time like they did in their sport. Soccer is skills based, they cant just jump in and play and be all-world, just like the best athletes in the universe cant just pick up a club and be as good as Tiger Woods. There are many reasons why they chose those sports over soccer... Its our society, money among other reasons..

But also there are things like you aren't as good at soccer as you are another sport.  Just because you have the pillow soft hands of a WR doesn't mean you have the soft feet of a soccer player.  Just because you have the muscle structure and make up of an endurance athlete doesn't mean that if you work really hard you can be a sprinter.  Just because all of those athletes were great in their sport does not mean that if they focused and worked really hard they could have been great at soccer.  One of the reasons we fall short here in soccer is that while the rest of the world is looking for those "soccer" traits.  We still love for that magical "athlete" that will change it all.  And we ignore all of the things that are absolutely  neccesary.  Even in Development Academy I see so many kids with slow feet, bad touch, inabilty to control the ball with their feet.  While you can improve those things they will never catch those eventual elite players who just posses those gifts.  So they get falcao, neymar and we get altidore with bricks for feet.

because the slow footed kids dad can't buy his son a spot on the jr high bb team. that kid plays bb at the ymca. but in soccer its pay to play! so anyone with the money can and the one's without the money can't. we don't look for slow big brick footed people in america lol

So true, thats why I wouldnt doubt it if 99% of the NBA players have never even played organized soccer because most came from poor neighborhood/families. Unlike basketball courts, there isn't a ton of soccer fields out there free for anyone to play on, its not like kids can watch soccer on TV growing up and say "yes, I wanna be Pele when I grow up"...

exactly! i not slamming soccer athletes. my son is one lol. soccer time in america is coming but i just see the difference being that we are NOT casting that wide net in america yet. when every child in america considers soccer first (or at all) then we will dominate the world in soccer.