Gameplan for 05's on 05/04 select teams

A question for 05 parents with kids currently playing 05/04 select: do you expect that your son will play up and stay with his soon-to-be 04 select team next season?  

Most 05 parents I have talked to seem inclined to play up and stick with their current teams.  But I assume there also have to be some parents looking to drop down and take advantage of the age-effect.  

May and June will be interesting.

The concern I have heard from 05 parents in Classic league is that IF they drop down they will have to go through the uncertainty of qualifying again. No incentive to leave a current DI 1-18 team.

allen04 wrote:The concern I have heard from 05 parents in Classic league is that IF they drop down they will have to go through the uncertainty of qualifying again.  No incentive to leave a current DI 1-18 team.

Wouldn't want that, would we. Few players can play up and be competitive at Classic 1. The 5th ranked 05 team would barely make Plano premiere 04. The Texans play up, but that's because they are miles ahead of the other teams.

The top '05 BY players will be moving to U12 DA next season, so scratch them off your D1 team list. The top '04 BY kids will be moving to U13/U14 DA, so they leave CL as well.

Expect a very large reshuffle on the near horizon, especially for the '05s.

Next year the 04's will be U12DA, the 03's will be U13DA and 02's will be U14DA.  DA calendar doesn't shift for one more year.  Of course the top 05's could "play-up" into U12DA with the 04's if they can make the pool of 26 players per club (two 9v9 teams per).

You're right and it's very likely the top '05 kids will be part of the roughly 80 spots open for the U12 DA next year.

Also, I know a few '04 kids who will move up to the '03 group next year.

Time will tell the tale.

I think you will have more than a couple of the 05's that will be playing up in the U12 age group in the USSSDA next fall. I also think you are going to have the majority of the 05 birth year kids staying down and playing with the upcoming 05's next year.

finish1 wrote:You're right and it's very likely the top '05 kids will be part of the roughly 80 spots open for the U12 DA next year.

Also, I know a few '04 kids who will move up to the '03 group next year.

Time will tell the tale.

Not sure about that. The jump for '04 kids has been done in classic league, but it will be very difficult to compete for playing time when you are competing for 1 of 54 spots total in U13DA. Could be wrong, but think it's going to be hard enough for the '03 birth year kids playing in '04 Classic league.

Its not that hard to play up into the next BY in CL.  I don't think.  CL is a hodge-podge of kids.   It's a pretty broad spectrum.   Whenever they apply an additional filter (say for PA or DA), then age becomes a huge deal.   That's why the youth national teams are 80% Spring b-days.  

This year there are....I guess fifty-four U13 (02BY) spots on PA at Texans, Solar, FCD.    I'm guessing somewhat as I have little clue about Texans, but I bet at least 10 of those spots are taken up by 03BY kids.    I would guess that this year is somewhat of an anomaly, cause Texans had a major brain drain...and then Solar basically ran out their 03 CL team from last year.  So that probably leans things more towards younger kids playing than is typical.   But maybe there could be quite a few 05BY kids making 04DA teams.  

But...of those 10 younger ones in 02PA, how many play much of a role?    Again no clue on Texans, would guess one of their best 02PA players is an 03 BY.   The one FCD/Solar PA game I went to, one 03BY played a lot for FCD.   The other FCD 03s didn't play much.   Solar 03BY kids didn't play much in the field.   Was just one game, but about as expected.   It's hard to play against older kids.   At these early teen years.  

Assuming the 02PA is a good yardstick, I would guess if you want your 05 BY kid to do a lot on an 04DA team you would need to put him on a weaker 04DA team.   Or else have him be the son of an international player.   Otherwise I doubt you are playing much.   Unless you are a GK perhaps.  Or the stone nuts.   Some kids are the stone nuts, outliers be outlying.   

I don't know much about 01DA, but that is all online.....quick roster check....Solar has one 02BY field player born Jan 2nd and based on a single game day roster Texans and FCD have zero 02 BY players that suit out.   And its not just that the vast majority of the kids are not playing up a year.....most of the kids that do play are the older kids in the older BY.    In the Solar/FCD 01DA game that I looked at, 16 of the 22 starters were 01CL age kids (i.e. those born Jan-July 31, 2001).   Its hard to play up and be elite.  

Shrug.  Bored at lunch.

Or in conclusion "it's hard for an 11 year old to stop a grown man with a mustache".

Number13 wrote:Its not that hard to play up into the next BY in CL.  I don't think.  CL is a hodge-podge of kids.   It's a pretty broad spectrum.   Whenever they apply an additional filter (say for PA or DA), then age becomes a huge deal.   That's why the youth national teams are 80% Spring b-days.  

This year there are....I guess fifty-four U13 (02BY) spots on PA at Texans, Solar, FCD.    I'm guessing somewhat as I have little clue about Texans, but I bet at least 10 of those spots are taken up by 03BY kids.    I would guess that this year is somewhat of an anomaly, cause Texans had a major brain drain...and then Solar basically ran out their 03 CL team from last year.  So that probably leans things more towards younger kids playing than is typical.   But maybe there could be quite a few 05BY kids making 04DA teams.  

But...of those 10 younger ones in 02PA, how many play much of a role?    Again no clue on Texans, would guess one of their best 02PA players is an 03 BY.   The one FCD/Solar PA game I went to, one 03BY played a lot for FCD.   The other FCD 03s didn't play much.   Solar 03BY kids didn't play much in the field.   Was just one game, but about as expected.   It's hard to play against older kids.   At these early teen years.  

Assuming the 02PA is a good yardstick, I would guess if you want your 05 BY kid to do a lot on an 04DA team you would need to put him on a weaker 04DA team.   Or else have him be the son of an international player.   Otherwise I doubt you are playing much.   Unless you are a GK perhaps.  Or the stone nuts.   Some kids are the stone nuts, outliers be outlying.   

I don't know much about 01DA, but that is all online.....quick roster check....Solar has one 02BY field player born Jan 2nd and based on a single game day roster Texans and FCD have zero 02 BY players that suit out.   And its not just that the vast majority of the kids are not playing up a year.....most of the kids that do play are the older kids in the older BY.    In the Solar/FCD 01DA game that I looked at, 16 of the 22 starters were 01CL age kids (i.e. those born Jan-July 31, 2001).   Its hard to play up and be elite.  

Shrug.  Bored at lunch.

I took a look at this too and have a little first hand knowledge.  Of many of the 01DA games I have been too, the starting rosters of the other teams have been the large majority of kids born in the first six months of the year in 01, meaning all 01 CL kids.  If you look at Texans, Solar, FCD DA rosters they have a few DP on the rosters from the year before, but they don't play or may get in one game ( or are goalies)  The only team at the U16 level that I have seen that had a field player playing up at U16 DA was Solar and that kid was the best 00 player in the Country and currently in the Residency of the US National team in Florida.  What was that about outliers.  

I would doubt many 05s play any type pf role in the U12 DA and very few 04 By kids will play up and see any game time on 03DA teams.

Number13 wrote:Or in conclusion "it's hard for an 11 year old to stop a grown man with a mustache".

You ain't lyin.  Dallas Cup U13 championship coming to Keller..

I seriously doubt that.  In the nuclear race of mature kids, we are North Korea.  With our lone mustachio'd warhead.   And then a largely malnourished and puny populace.  I would bet Tigres for one has boatloads full of warheads.

Love the feedback on this post because it highlights the dilemma ahead of us. First, for SDx2, not sure what jump your talking about, but if the Spring 04 bbs stay with their current CL team, they will be U14 next year. If they decide to go AP, then they will be U13 and pick up some Fall 04 players to fill up the bench, um, I mean roster.

Yes, I believe there are at least six '05 BY players who will play U12 DA next year. Likewise, I would estimate the same number or maybe one or two more '04 BY players who will contribute to the U13 DA next year.

At this point, if you believe your '05 or '04 D1 team will not be impacted by the AP system next year, you may be sorely surprised in the next few months.

I agree with Sprint in that the AP system highly favors kids born in the first six months of the year.

January is the new August.

finish1 wrote:Love the feedback on this post because it highlights the dilemma ahead of us. First, for SDx2, not sure what jump your talking about, but if the Spring 04 bbs stay with their current CL team, they will be U14 next year. If they decide to go AP, then they will be U13 and pick up some Fall 04 players to fill up the bench, um, I mean roster.

Yes, I believe there are at least six '05 BY players who will play U12 DA next year. Likewise, I would estimate the same number or maybe one or two more '04 BY players who will contribute to the U13 DA next year.

At this point, if you believe your '05 or '04 D1 team will not be impacted by the AP system next year, you may be sorely surprised in the next few months.

I agree with Sprint in that the AP system highly favors kids born in the first six months of the year.

January is the new August.

I was referring to DA specifically, not classic league. Six '05 BY kids will be playing U12DA next year you say? That's quite a jump considering there will be many '04 BY kids who have played up against kids born in '03 and at times kids born in late '02 for years. Not saying they were always the most competitive situations, but it will be hard for '05 kids to replicate that type of size and speed.

I just love these discussions.
We're all supposed to be in this "to watch our kids develop" but it always goes back to "you can't win that way".

The simple truth is how your BB trains.
If your BB is training against kids a year older and he's competitive, then why would you move him down?
Certainly your BB will get to play more during "games" but for training he has to "wait around" for all of the younger boys to catch up...it'll be 6 months of "coasting".
All you are really doing is trading development time for a better roster spot for maybe a couple of seasons.

Now the perfect situation is to train up a year but play to your age.
Clubs typically don't do this so you have to go private for that...

Ozymandias.EBON wrote:I just love these discussions.
We're all supposed to be in this "to watch our kids develop"
...

I see this a lot but not really sure what it means or what the kids are developing for. Most of them won't play in college, maybe a handful of kids in the entire metroplex of over 6million people will make any money playing soccer.

I go back and forth on this myself so not arguing with you, but if your goal is for your kid to play at the highest level possible and win some games and have fun, then doing what's best for development may not mean much. Having your kid on a team up a year as a DP or where he rarely ever plays or gets in the game is not fun for anyone. I have seen parents that say, " oh yea, I wont' mind if he doesn't get in the games as long as he is practicing with great players and developing" This last until about the fifth game where he hasn't gotten off the bench and then the calls to the coach start.

If we really wanted to do what's best for development, we would all try to move to Europe.

SDx2, fair enough for the '05s and you may be right that few, if any, can handle the size and speed of the '04s.

On the flip side of that coin, do you believe there are any '04 BY kids that will play U13 DA? If so, how many would you estimate? You certainly have the experience watching the top '04 teams play.

Sprint, touché.

finish1 wrote:

I agree with Sprint in that the AP system highly favors kids born in the first six months of the year.

January is the new August.

The current system for the elite kids was already Jan-Dec.   January is the new January there.   Nothing changed.   Probably will be a small number of 05 kids playing up into 04DA, as there have been in the past.   Six doesn't seem like a huge shift.

As you go further away from the elite kids, the less the dates matter.  It will matter for CL, but not nearly as much as in the higher level AP system.   If you look at the top five 03CL teams this year (just cause I know the people), I think 43 of the 82 kids are Fall kids.   Its about half and half.   You can be younger and play in CL.   Which is the only place where January is the new August.    Yes, it will always be harder if you are younger.  

Will be interesting to see what happens.  

Man a lot of posts here, a guy can't even take a mid-day nap under his desk mid-post.

Unless you think there is a magic leprechaun at the end of the rainbow, then spending two years kicking butt and playing 100% of the time vs spending two years getting butt kicked and "developing" might be a pretty easy choice for a lot of folks.  

The argument is true, but hasn't applied to this age group, yet. January is still the new August for the top '04 and '05 players entering into the DA system.

For the masses, which means CL and below, yes, January is the new August for them to, regardless of age group. Hmm, there seems to be a common theme.

RE: Sprint

I can't speak for anyone else but I'll try to offer some clarification.

I have two boys...my youngest is typically a starter and my oldest is not.
My oldest son is one of those bench players to which you refer.
I would estimate he plays about a quarter of the total minutes out of a full season.
So I should be one of "those parents" calling my coach to tell him off or shopping my kid, right?
Not a chance.

I see club soccer as a teaching opportunity for my sons.
Each has to earn his roster spot.
On my oldest's team, his hard work has a great influence on his playing time.
If he doesn't tighten his laces every training session and at every game, he is in danger of losing his spot.
Does my kid deserve a higher spot?  His current spot is what he currently deserves...plain and simple.
Doesn't my money account for a higher roster spot?  Money may help in the majors but it shouldn't matter in youth sports.  (Not saying it doesn't matter, just saying it shouldn't).

The great thing is, my kid DESIRES a higher spot.
He desires it so much he's putting in extra time outside of training sessions.
As long as he wants me to, I will support that desire financially and with my time.
This is teaching him a work ethic...something that most schools no longer teach and fewer parents instill within their kids.

Now, I can absolutely make things easier on him.
I could move him to another team where he would be a starter and could coast during training.
The forum's public opinion states that "more game playing time makes better players" so jumping teams should help my kid's development jump dramatically, right?
Sure, he feels better about his "self"...but the lesson he learns is that if it's too hard then you can quit (or worse that daddy can pay to make it better).
In the end, lessons learned but no development...no desire.

Myself, I think you have to learn some failure to understand the cost and value of winning.
I would rather my kid be roster spot #18 on a team full of elite players rather than spot #2 or #3 on a roster wallowing in mediocrity.
All of his touches will be against kids who are better, faster, stronger so he will have to adapt or fail.

So my point is that if you are focused on true development of your kid (character, ethics, personality, athleticism, etc) then (IMHO) dropping him down would be a mistake.

Encourage your kid to push himself so that when you aren't around he knows how...

As for my youngest, he is momma's baby boy.
I'm not allowed to interject....yet :-)

finish1 wrote:SDx2, fair enough for the '05s and you may be right that few, if any, can handle the size and speed of the '04s.

On the flip side of that coin, do you believe there are any '04 BY kids that will play U13 DA? If so, how many would you estimate? You certainly have the experience watching the top '04 teams play.

Sprint, touché.

I don't believe any '04's will play meaningful minutes with the '03's. Might practice with them, and might roster when no conflict during the weekend, but doubt they play. Unless I'm missing some '04 BY player, I think the 04's will be in U12DA. Further, if you are '04 and roster as a '03 U13DA, you are screwed if you are not getting time with the '03's because you can't go back and say, wait I'm an '04 and play with the '04's. You are stuck for the year as '03. Better to roster as '04 and get called up.

Shocking, really, that you don't believe any '04 BYs will play beyond the DP level for U13 DA next year and that they will all play U12 DA. Especially given the level of excitement this age group had when the kids were U10. You would think there would be at least 2 or 3, maybe even 4,  that could play up a year and get meaningful minutes. I know of at least 1 that could play U13 DA next year and get meaningful minutes.

Shasta, it's not looking good for your '05 BY kids who want to play U12 DA next year. They might as well stay home.

finish1 wrote:Shocking, really, that you don't believe any '04 BYs will play beyond the DP level for U13 DA next year and that they will all play U12 DA. Especially given the level of excitement this age group had when the kids were U10. You would think there would be at least 2 or 3, maybe even 4,  that could play up a year and get meaningful minutes. I know of at least 1 that could play U13 DA next year and get meaningful minutes.

Shasta, it's not looking good for your '05 BY kids who want to play U12 DA next year. They might as well stay home.

Not sure if you are referring to me with "the level of excitement this age group had when the kids were U10", but I don't believe there will be many if any '04's fully contributing with the U13DA. The top players in CL now are '03 birth year kids and I think most, not all, will find it tough at U13DA. I have to believe there are quality '03 birth year kids in U13 CL that are not going to just sit there without giving it a shot at DA. That pool is only 54 players for all of '03 BY.

As for '04 BY kids in U12 CL, unless I have someone aged incorrectly, I'm not sure who you are referring to that would be a meaningful contributor playing up in U13DA. Just my opinion, again I could be wrong on an age of someone.

'05 BY kids can certainly play U12DA. There are 78 spots open between the 3 clubs, so it's definitely doable.

finish1 wrote:Shocking, really, that you don't believe any '04 BYs will play beyond the DP level for U13 DA next year and that they will all play U12 DA. Especially given the level of excitement this age group had when the kids were U10. You would think there would be at least 2 or 3, maybe even 4,  that could play up a year and get meaningful minutes. I know of at least 1 that could play U13 DA next year and get meaningful minutes.

Shasta, it's not looking good for your '05 BY kids who want to play U12 DA next year. They might as well stay home.

Not sure about ANY, but based upon history, it is doubtful very many kids will play up into the 03DA next year.  You can look at the current rosters of the 3 DA clubs now and of the U14 and U16 teams there seem to be very few kids playing up onto these teams.  I don't think it would be shocking, it would be the typical course of things for very few kids to play up into the DA.

But at the end of the day, that is why the coaches get the big bucks to make these roster decisions and playing time decisions. We are all just a bunch of dads pontificating in the wind. Good luck to the 05, 04 and 03 making the jump to DA next year.